Let's Discuss the Projected Reliability of the New 2015 Honda Fit from Mexico.
carattorney
Member Posts: 62
Since the Honda FIT came to the United States from Japan in 2007, all Units made and sold by Honda have been manufactured in Japan through the current model year.
Starting with the newly redesigned 2015 Honda FIT, to be delivered to US Dealers this coming spring (2014), Honda built an assembly line for US shipments in MEXICO! No longer will the US receive FITS from Japan starting in the Spring of 2014.
Honda's Statement is the following: "For North America, the brand-new Fit will be constructed in Mexico, in a plant modeled heavily on the company’s innovative brand-new Yorii manufacturing facility in Japan."
Does anyone here on Edmunds want to "weigh-in" on the reliability of vehicles manufactured in Mexico vs. Japan?
Is it safe to conclude that if Honda builds the assembly line--it really does not matter what country the FIT is manufactured in?
Are assembly lines so automated now, that workers are mere attendants and it does not matter if an automobile is manufactured in Mexico, Japan, Germany, Italy, China, or America--the car will be the same quality no matter what?
Comments
It really is hard to say. My first Honda - a 2003 Accord was built at a Mexican plant and I had horrible paint quality issues. Mechanically it was flawless. I'd be willing to bet that with Honda's increasingly strict quality standards - the Mexican built FIT will be similar in quality levels to Japanese produced units. I am concerned about their quality control however, and the reliability of Honda's direct injection engine and CVT transmission. Time will tell
Won't have to worry as much about it having radioactive parts I suppose.
People said the same sort of things about Nissans from Canton, Mississippi and Mercedes M-Class SUVs from Alabama (they did have problems with those, but who's to say any new factory would have had bugs?)..
Stopped over at my local Honda dealer this week to check out the first shipment of the new FITS that just arrived. Didn't test drive, just took a look around. Sticker stays they are 70% Mexico, and the Transmission is made in Indonesia. I did not know that Indonesia was known for Transmissions? It's definitely a new and different body--side panels have a curved indentation that runs almost the full length of the vehicle. On the doors, the indentation is deep enough that you could almost affix a temporary ledge to the side. You will have to see them in person. Wonder why they choose to design that in? Aerodynamics? Appearance?
It almost gave me the impression that if you got a dent on the doors, it may not be immediately noticeable, because you already have a deep factory dent that is more noticeable.
Again, you have to see it in person.
I can't tell if I like it or not yet? I am kind of used to my 2009 FIT body style.
Why call it FITS? Honda doesn't use all caps. All those Mazda MAZDA3 names bug me too.
Would like to hear your test drive report; hope you make time to do one. I had a Fit overnight a few years back and wanted to like it but it was just too buzzy or something.
I just don't have a lot of faith in a Mexican/Indonesia built Honda but I suppose my fears could be unfounded.
Once in awhile, I would get a customer who swore that the Japan built Hondas were in some way "better" than the US ones but I was never able to detect one smidgeon of difference.
I spent nearly 20 years in the tool business working for a US company that used to toot their horn about their US manufacturing. Not anymore. On a recent trip to Lowes, I spent some time carefully examining the now Chinese made hand tools, tape measures etc and I have to admit, they looked and felt the same as the old stuff did.
They also sell a brand of wrenches, sockets, ratchets etc called Cobalt that at least in feel and appearance looked flawless.
However, under hard usage, the jaws may spread, the chrome may peel they may break when pushed hard and not stand up to much abuse. I don't know.
I do know the pros who depend on tools for making their living generally stay away from this stuff along with Craftsman and harbor Freight items.
the product will be as good or bad as the management that is overseeing the factory. If you don't train the workers properly, or the working conditions really suck, you're going to have problems. "A fish starts to rot at the head".
it's the same genetic material building Mercedes in the USA as built a lot of Detroit junk in the old days, so there you go.
Also, in addition to management, whether a factory is state of the art or some worn-out facility will have a lot to do with it-----investment $ in, gets quality out.
I can still remember when I was very young, Made in Japan = junk
Scary but countries like China, India and Mexico are perfectly capable of turning out any quality they are asked to turn out.
It is pretty bad when I go to Home Depot to buy some long wooden dowels for a community service project to read Made in China on the label.
So, we ship our wood and steel overseas so they can manufacture something only to have them ship it back here? Something is broken with that system
Getting back to the Fit question, although I am bothered by this outsourcing I would think the quality would be up to snuff. I suppose time will tell.
Funny story from my Honda Dealer where I get all my servicing done for years:
Met up with the service manager a month before they shipped the 2015 FITS and asked him his opinion of new FITS from Mexico. At first he did not know what I was talking about--he said, "Honda isn't going to make any more cars in Mexico after what happened with the Accord switching from Japan to Mexico a few years ago." I said, yes, they built a new assembly line there. He then "smacks" himself on the side of his head with the palm of his hand, and says, "I remember all the trouble and complaints we had with the Mexico units when they started making the Accord over there." "I don't understand it." Shakes his head a few time.
The first FIT units off the Mexico assembly line did fail the Insurance Company Offset Crash (IIHS) Test. But that was a design issue. Honda already shipped many to the dealers when this happened. But they stopped the production line when the FIT failed, changed the front end, and passed the Offset Crash Test after the retrofit. So the first couple or so months of production out there on dealer lots may not have the retrofit? Honda said that they fixed all cars still at the factory not yet shipped. SO if you are shopping for one, check the production date with the dealer to see if that is one that has the front end that passed the IIHS and if not, see if the dealer can replace the front end for you before you buy the car new.
The rear trim piece under the wiper came off in my hand when I pulled on it instead of the hatch release handle. I was able to snap it back in place, but it shouldn't have come off so easily.
I've been having smell issues with my HVAC since early-mid July, and one thing the technician found while servicing my 2015 Fit LX was that the wrong cabin air filter was installed. I don't see how that could happen as they are building only one model car at the plant. Go figure.
I learned the launch delay was actually due to a worker walk-out, which may explain the large amount of dust found inside my Fit's fresh air intake. It could account for the smell coming out of my A/C, which can get really unpleasant, especially for a vehicle that's just 3 months old (I got it in mid-June). It could also explain the fleas that came with it if the car were left outdoors in a state of semi-assembly. I took care of the flea problem with a bug bomb and lots of vacuuming instead of taking it into the dealership (though I did let them know about the infestation and the numerous bites I received).
Of course, there are the two recent recalls: the first for the revised front bumper beam and the second about the incorrect A-pillar trim pieces having been installed (they may have been for models without A-pillar airbags, which can prevent the airbags from deploying correctly or even creating hazards for occupants). I just received my notices for both these recalls.
Were it any other make, I'd say it's average for a new model. However, the Fit/Jazz has been released for over a year globally and I expect better from Honda as the premium they charge for their brand is partly based on build quality and reliability.
Smells (and what smells like mold/mildew spores) are still coming out of HVAC system but reduced, probably due to the drier air recently. Service department claims they found nothing after three service attempts, even after removing CAB and blower sub-assemblies so they could peek into the evaporator coils from the blower port. There is still something. I will be getting a flexible borescope and try to find anything via the central dash vents going down into the evaporator core.
Front seat design is atrocious. Not only do they have the too-forward head restraints (my wife and I each flipped them as both posts are notched - perhaps by design to allow flipping?), the seat back provides no lumbar support and the seat bottom cuts off circulation after 40-45 minutes. They are the worst seats in any vehicles we've owned, and that counts the cars our parents had.
Still, the car's mechanicals have been reliable and deliver very good fuel efficiency (getting 41.4mpg average over almost 6,000 miles of mixed driving).
The stereo rebooted while I was driving once and has lost its wired connection through the USB port to my iPhone a few times. Unplugging and reconnecting the device or turning the audio off and then on doesn't restore the information displayed on the head unit. I have to turn off the car completely and restart it to restore the usual displayed information.
Seals around the engine bay don't seem to work very well as it gets dirty/wet in there quickly. I've been wiping what I can reach in the engine bay about once a month.
Oil seems to be seeping out around the dipstick. Yes, it is firmly seated. I've been wiping this area to keep the oil from baking on.
Wipers already have started streaking, leaving big unwiped sections.
I have test driven 2 of the 2015 FIT models on two different occasions.
The steering on the 2015 was very different. In my 2009 you feel the road like a go-cart, and in the 2015, it is more of a polite larger sedan feel--less vibrations, less race characteristics, less road feel.
What model seat do you have in your FIT that you do not like? The 2015 comes in cloth and heated leather. Which one do you have?
I have been looking at the Navigation Edition Yellow one.
They are rare and the two dealers in Southern California that were allotted one, were behaving like they had a rare Ferrari on their lot. One dealer raised the sticker 3000.00! above MSRP and the other 1500.00 above. Both had the cars in their inventory more than 30 days and neither would budge on the mark-up. It's a Honda FIT! Not a new model Corvette with 10 buyers waiting for the first one that comes in.
I don't know how Honda chose which dealers to choose to get the Yellow/Nav, but I wish that they did not choose those two birds.
That is interesting about the worker strike at the plant in Mexico. One auto commentator wrote a while back about the FIT in Mexico that workers there will work harder and be more loyal than an American auto worker because in Mexico they have so few good job opportunities that they will be so thankful being employed by Honda. But if they are striking already? that is a serious miscalculation on Honda's behalf. Hyundai for example, builds cars non-union in Alabama and has a dedicated work force that never once voted for unionization, and never called a strike on their own either.
On long drives (more than 40 minutes), I have to also use another cushion to raise my rear high enough to keep the side bolsters on the seat from cutting off circulation to my legs. I think the press in on the sides of my buttocks like one would apply pressure to an artery to close it off. On short jaunts around town, it isn't an issue, but it definitely makes long hauls more of a pain.
Regarding the drive, it's definitely isolated. Most small bumps are filtered out, big ones are sometimes muted, sometimes barely dampened. The rear hops around like mad through turns if the pavement is bumpy, but that's due to the torsion beam suspension. Otherwise, it handles adequately nimbly. On concrete roads, the ride is noisy and jiggly even in the front. This is not a long-distance cruiser. It is best suited for short hauls.
Though I find many workers in Mexico to work hard, I think they are more likely than American workers to strike collectively, with or without unions. If enough people strike, often the rest of the plant will join in.
We were able to haul a lot of luggage and gifts and parking was easy, which is good as parking is tight.
However, the mildew smell has started coming out of the vents again. It has been rainy for about a week now. It was so bad once that a sharp stabbing pain struck one of my upper sinuses. It went away after opening all the windows. There is definitely something wrong with the design or the plant for a brand new car to have mildew smells this strong. If you can afford to wait, hold off on buying this car until they fix their startup or design problems.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I do see on the web that the unsold dealer inventory of FITS in the US is very high now--they don't seem to be selling as well as Honda anticipated. Not sure if that is because of it's funky body style look, the fact that it is made in Mexico, or just new model year jitters?
I was at he huge LA auto show a couple of weeks ago and Honda had on display the new HV Urban SUV to be at dealers in the spring 2015 the rep there said. It is nice looking. It's larger than a FIT, smaller than a CRV, and has all wheel drive. It will be built on the same assembly line in Mexico as the FIT on the FIT base. It's an SUV FIT. I wish they would put a spare tire on the back gate like they used to have on the CRV years ago. That would improve it's looks greatly and improve interior room and make it safer and faster to change a tire if you don't have to remove property from the interior to change a tire. Not to mention having to put a dirty tire back in the vehicle and back out again to fix it! Put the spare outside the SUV!
Maybe take a look at that one when it comes out in the spring and everything is finalized.
Can't agree about the spare on the back though; that would be a deal killer for me. Much prefer having a hatch that opens over my head than a gate anyway.
Another scenario--someone you love gets a flat tire and has to call AAA. If the tire is on the back, 5 minutes, he or she on the way. Drive car to costco--easy fix--no one needs to get inside the vehicle. If spare is inside--they have to remove all that stuff--out onto the roadway, re-pack--major hassle. Person is exposed to great danger. They have to do it all over again to fix the flat tire.
What about a swing away tire with a gate that open up like you like?
I tend to get one or two flats a year (most recently this past July) and I'm well versed in crawling under overloaded minivans to get the spare out. Only had to partially unload my old Outback once to change a flat a few years ago (one of my few flats on an Interstate - I usually get them on blue highways or worse).
Huge pain for sure (but at least I have a spare). Even with the crawling around or unloading stuff, I can put on a spare and be on my way an hour before the roadside assistance contract person would even show up. And the two flats I had in Newfoundland a decade apart - good luck getting cell service much less a mechanic. Each time both tires were ruined.
My wife always helps so she knows the drill.
All in all, I think the best solution is to have a spare, even if it's just a spacesaver like the Fit has, and put it underneath the car in the back. It's not going to be much filthier there than the flat you are going to be taking off the car and it's out of the way until you need it. Next best is under the rear floor, which is what I assume the new Fit continues to do.
I've had no body parts loosen up, no fleas or funny smells.
I'm glad I waited for this model since I like the body style the best since the original. I don't know if I'll get 17 yrs out of it like my '97 CRV, which is still going strong for my next door neighbor !
If you feel like the "flea" option should have been included in the deal, contact your dealer and see if they can get some shipped in and installed in the ventilation system under the warranty.
I wonder if the Red Hot Chili Peppers have rights to that Flea deal ?
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http://www.autonews.com/article/20141027/RETAIL03/310279956?template=mobile
I could have told them all this even before they broke ground...
Thanks for the link.
I find it hard to believe this article's point of view, however, that Honda is suddenly surprised about language barriers, security, green labor force, etc in Mexico. Did they go there before they started building? Did they think they were in Switzerland?
It also had 2 defective part warranty repairs: A/C condenser, Transmission sensor.
I still love it--after that its been very reliable through 70K thus far.
But Mexico production is too new yet to determine reliability. I know that the 2015 FIT has had recalls.
If I were in charge of assessing the quality of work at a non-union factory, one thing (not the only thing) I'd look at is the quit rate.
My symptoms included itchy eyes and throat, sinus headaches that lasted hours, fatigue, sharp stabbing sinus pains, bloody nasal discharge (sometimes including large blobs of clotted blood) and dry, itchy skin. At first, I put Swiffer sheets over the defogger vents and center dashboard vents. That didn't seem to lessen the smell or symptoms. I drove with the windows open at least partially, but it's difficult to do when it's 7-18F out, especially when driving at freeway speeds. I started wearing disposable N95 respirators, which seemed to lessen my respiratory symptoms, but not the odor nor my itchy eyes and skin. I finally got to wearing a respirator all the time on top of driving with the windows open, and running the HVAC only to defog the windshield or introduce some heat. I replaced the Swiffer sheets with 3M Filtrete rated for filtering out mold spores, this time covering all vents but the two by the little "sail" windows, which I blocked with tape. This helped a bit, but the odor remained, so I finally started using a reusable half-mask with cartridges rated N100 with activated carbon to absorb organic vapors, which finally took care of the odor. This made all symptoms but the itchy eyes and irritated skin go away. I stopped getting the headaches immediately (though they still got a little stuffy) and the blood in my nasal discharge disappeared after 4-5 days.
I know there is something in the system because I cleaned out the blower (which smelled musty this time, which is a change from before) and what I could reach of the inside of the evaporator weekend before this past one, and I got a sinus headache right afterwards and bloody nasal discharge the next morning because I didn't wear a respirator while cleaning out the parts (I thought I had enough fresh air).
Per advice from my state's Lemon Law Administrator, I requested, in writing, Honda give me a loaner car while my claim is processed through arbitration, but the dealership's GM wouldn't cover it, saying American Honda must approve and pay for it. American Honda's case manager hasn't returned my calls about the matter. So much for customer service or satisfaction. The dealership's people are polite, and their technicians do a good job, but when I needed their help dealing with Honda, they didn't; basically, I'm on my own.
The Fit is now sitting unused in my driveway, awaiting resolution of my claim. I have leased a Subaru Impreza hatch (didn't want to buy it outright, in case something happened with THAT). I kind of feel sorry for the Fit because it's not the car's fault it wasn't assembled right. Other than the uncomfortable front seats (and this nasty HVAC issue), it's been a very good car. I place the blame squarely on Honda and their new Celaya, Mexico plant. They obviously are not doing things right there, and it seems they are not doing things right by their customers as American Honda doesn't seem all that interested in helping me or getting their hands on my Fit to figure out what went wrong in case it's a systemic problem they need to fix at their plant or in the design.
I read an article on another auto-related news site that Honda's new Celaya plant had labor issues beyond the walk-out, such as employees sending in untrained family members to cover their shift (the plant is the first industrial facility in a mostly agrarian area, so there's very few skilled or semi-skilled industrial workers). Transport trains were hijacked and parts were stolen off cars on them. That would explain how a couple of trim pieces were not properly assembled on mine: driver door controls panel had a huge gap where it adjoins the main panel (I popped it in fully), the hatch trim under the window popped off in my hand when I first lifted the hatch after getting it home the first day (again, I made sure it was fully snapped in). If cars had parts stolen off them, even if the parts were replaced when they reached US ports, those cars should never have been sold as new, but as factory refurbished units, just like power tools.
I wish others better luck with their Fits. As for me and my family, we're done with the Honda brand.
1) The stereo sometimes loses contact with my iPhone 6, even though it's plugged into the USB port. It will stop showing track information while the audio continues to play and/or show the incorrect play mode (for instance, the head unit will show Shuffle All mode is on when it's not in that mode when I check the phone's display). It usually recovered when I cycle the audio off and on. Sometimes I had to turn off the car first before it would recognize the phone. Unplugging and plugging the phone back in didn't work.
2) When moving the transmission into D after backing out of my garage, it would sometimes take 1-2s for power to actually get transmitted to the drive wheels, even when I held the accelerator down. When it finally sent power, the car would surge forwards. I learned to feather the accelerator until I felt power actually being sent to the drive wheels. This would happen only right after starting the car cold. There have been a couple complaints on NHTSA and carcomplaints.com about sudden acceleration, which may be related to this behavior. There is at least one complaint about brakes failing.
In general, it's been written about in the financials that in order for Honda to price the FIT at current levels they had to go to Mexico. They need cheap labor. And due to the air bag problems and deaths, they focused all their energy on solving that dilemma and let quality of new production suffer. This was especially harmful to the FIT that was a new production on a new line in country not known for high quality. All this resulted in the Honda CEO stepping down a couple of weeks ago.