Toyota Matrix

nippononly

although I do like the versatility of the RAV - rear seats that come out entirely? Love it! Point is, the space behind the seats if they are left in is really short in the RAV, so it is a lot easier to use the cargo space in the matrix. The seating position is higher in the RAV however, and it is shorter so easier to park. But then the matrix looks way better...i could go on and on here!!

rikkugon

Alright, this is splitting hairs a bit, but if you check the specs on the Toyota web pages, the RAV4 clearly has more cargo capacity, even with back seats up, than the Matrix - when measured in volume. However, most of this is because the back well is deeper on the RAV4; you'd have to stack things to take advantage of the room. I don't know about the length of the beds; they seem about the same, maybe shorter for the RAV4. The RAV4 is certainly about 5 inches shorter overall than the Matrix. The seats fold to make a nice bed for the Matrix, but can be removed entirely for the RAV4. So technically the RAV4 holds more, but it's probably a lot easier to get stuff in and out of the Matrix.

footie

If you think getting the Toyota you want is tough where you live, you should see what South East Toyota does to consumers in their states. Not only do you get cars that don't have what you do want, they are loaded with heavily marked up add ons no one wants.
I saw a great example on an overloaded Matrix XR yesterday when checking the Savannah Toyota website. $1199 for a 'port installed' set of tires and Enkei wheels, $619 for 'fabric protection options'. It even has the optional 'ASHTRAY'. Absolutely ridiculous.
This is a pretty much base Matrix XR and has a laughable $20,200 sticker price for a car that should be around $17,800.

Anyone who lives ins AL, FL, GA, SC, NC ought to go buy their Toyotas in adjacent states. You can go to Disneyworld for a few days on what you'd save.

1matrix

I don’t think the AWD version was an afterthought. It’s a new drivetrain design from Toyota, and it’s more than likely offered for its practicality. It’s a 4WD when it needs to be, and it’s highly efficient in terms of gas mileage. (The old “All-Trac” design would probably have worked, too; but fuel economy would have suffered significantly).

Some have complained about the AWD being matched to the lower output engine, but the numbers reveal that performance is nearly identical to the 96/97 4WD RAV4, which most owners didn’t seem to complain too much about. In terms of an easy-to-drive “economy” car, the Matrix AWD with auto transmission is a good blend. The high-performance 180-hp engine (on the XRS) would likely be too performance-oriented for most AWD buyers – that is, the benefits only kick in at very high RPMs (and engine sounds) and high speeds, which would not be conducive to “practical” driving.

If offered on an XRS, however, I am sure some would opt to have AWD, too – for even greater performance.

In practical terms, though, the Matrix AWD's 27mpg city/32mpg hwy are probably the best fuel economy numbers of any AWD vehicle sold in North America!

petl

That is exactly why we bought the Matrix 4WD. Where is this HP thing going to end? Our 1994 Camry weighs about the same and has nearly the same HP as the Matrix. Powerful enough for me. We traded in our 1998 RAV for the Matrix. The Matrix is by far a superior vehicle. In terms of ride quality, gas mileage, quietness, functionality and luxury feeling the Matrix is even better than the new RAV (which we almost purchased). The Matrix evens feels peppier. Maybe that has something to do with the different 4WD systems. Not knocking the RAV. It served us well. The Matrix just better suits our needs. The only drawback is the steering column. It's positoned too close to the dash. After 1 week I'm still looking for that comfortable driving position.

scott31

The hassle of getting a Matrix equipped like you want it is the reason I ended up getting an Acura 3.2TL Type S with Nav.

I got tired of waiting for my Matrix, and the Acura was a few more $$$ a month to lease.

Oh well, don't regret the decision, I love the Acura.

nippononly

I too agree that horsepower wars are getting out of hand, especially given that there are more and more cars out there on the roads, and driving speeds are consequently dropping anyway. But my test is the Grapevine - you Californians out there will be familiar with this - which is a 7 or 8 mile section of I-5 in southern California that goes up to the Tejon Pass. I want any car I own to have enough power to maintain 65 mph going up that thing. I am not saying that matrix AWD would not be able to do it, because I haven't been able to find one to drive, but I do know the RAV4 AWD I had recently had a tough time doing it, and that has the same weight and 25 more hp.

microrepair

I spent a week negotiating for a Forester and then at the last moment went back and looked at the Matrix for the second time. And bought it immediately. Even though the Forester has AWD and 165 HP, I decided I could live with FWD and I could not tell the difference between the Forester's 165 HP and the Matrix XR's 130 HP.. Especially now that mine is broken in.. It is a quick little car..! I think the Forester's HP is exaggerated.. Or the Matrix's understated.!!

lc9063

If anyone has a Matrix with the Nav system, is it any good? I'd love to get it but I want to know more before I do. There is precious little info on it at Toyota.com and the Denso and Delphi Automotive websites do say much. I'm interested in any feedback.

joelis

I would have to think that a 3.2TL R is more than just a "few" dollars a month higher than the Matrix. The residual values of the two vehicles are very similar so, the extra $10k of the Acura would make it at least $100 per month higher, right?

Do you have any comparison numbers you could share with us on how you looked at it?

scott31

Actually I have it all in a nice spreadsheet if you'd like to see it.....becuase I figured in things like Personal Property Taxes (ah, the fun of living in VA) and gas and such.

The Matrix out the door was $20,499.

5 year montly payment would be $401.09 (with nothing down at 6.5% interest) Leasing a Matrix is nuts because the lease rates stink.

I got the lease to my 3.2TL Type S with Nav to $389.90 a month, but I put $2100 "down" (in the form of taxes, tags, acq fee, etc).

If you put $2100 "down" on the Matrix the payment falls to $360.00.

For $30 extra a month, I'll take the TL any day.

And I drove home with it the same day. I've been waiting for my Matrix since Feb.

lc9063, I found the Nav system in the Matrix to be a very good one. If you can't find one in a Matrix to test, see if they have a Toyota Camry to test. Same system, except the Matrix doesn't have the touch screen, or the CD and Cassette players hidden behind the screen.

jas28

Actually the Matrix/Vibe nav systems are different from the Camry - Delphi does the Matrix and Denso does the Camry.

rikkugon

I also agree with 1matrix that the AWD is a rather progressive new design that allows more fuel economy with better traction. It runs in FWD most of the time and only transfers torque to the rear wheels when needed. However, the system is still new, and will only get better and better.

Petl- congrats! I suspect that you want the Matrix more for snow/ice conditions, and I think the Matrix AWD is a great choice. I want something more for local dirt roads and mountains than for snow. I can't really imagine driving the Matrix off of the pavement at the moment, but maybe future modifications will go in that direction.

1matrix

Anyone have the Toyota all-weather floor mats for the Matrix? I've noticed that Toyota's "Build Your Own" pricing system always requires the carpeted floor mats to be bought alongside the all-weather ones, increasing the overall price dramatically. I'm thinking of buying stand-alone all-weather mats from my Toyota dealer's parts department, but am wondering if they'll work OK w/o the carpeted mats. (Can't think of a reason why they wouldn't.)

rikkugon

I also agree with 1matrix that the AWD is a rather progressive new design that allows more fuel economy with better traction. It runs in FWD most of the time and only transfers torque to the rear wheels when needed. However, the system is still new, and will only get better and better.

Petl- congrats! I suspect that you want the Matrix more for snow/ice conditions, and I think the Matrix AWD is a great choice. I want something more for local dirt roads and mountains than for snow. I can't really imagine driving the Matrix off of the pavement at the moment, but maybe future modifications will go in that direction.

footie

I don't want to butt into a discussion between joelis and Scot31. Scot31 did a lot of homework, had a spreadsheet, etc. with taxes and made an overt decision to lease instead of buy. The payments were roughly the same.

However, the example about the Acura TL and the Matrix shows in a different case, how careful car shoppers need to be when the dealer homes in on the size of the payment that you are comfortable paying.

Car shoppers should be aware that dealers often like to do an 'upsell' to you on a more expensive car, because for the same size payment, it looks like you are getting a lot more car - and you are! (In Scot31's case, he changed vehicle types, brand and price range!)

The only catch is you don't own any of it when the lease is over, unless you buy it at that point in thime for the 'residual' left in the lease.

The thinking that Scot31 did and his decision is a great example. It is a comparison between payments on buying a Matrix, with a 5 year loan payout, and leasing an Acura for 3 years.

The payments are essentially equal, but Scot31 is getting a more expensive car (with Nav and he doesn't have to wait!).

However, at the end of the Acura lease, Scot31 has to decide if he wants to buy it at the residual price calculated in the lease or turn it back in to the bank. The buyout to keep the car is around $22,100 (my estimate) - more than the original driveout cost of the Matrix. If he choose to buy it, he will have paid down payment and fees, lease payments and residual buyout for a total of $38K (and perhaps more including taxes).

At the end of Matrix loan payments, he would own the Matrix having paid about $25K for it (principal and interest).

If Scot31 choses to give back the Acura when the lease expires, it will have cost him around $16,000 (lease payments plus the 'up front') or about 80% of the out the door price on the Matrix. Then he has to figure out what to do for the next 24 months. If he had bought the Matrix, he'd still be paying, but he'd still have wheels too.

Finally, Scot31 can decide to release another Acura TL when the current lease expires. Assuming that the same great deal is availble, the payments should be about the same. He'd have to pay another $2100 up front and the $390 / month.

At the end of 5 years, Scot31 would have paid another $12K and still wouldn't have any equity in a vehicle.

But the math shows that for 5 years Scot drove 2 top of the line Acura TL S's w/navigation for only about $3K more than buying the Matrix.

He's gives up ownership, in exchange for staying more current with car technology and definately moves up the luxury ladder.

Kind of depends on what you want to with your car dollars doesn't it.

Hope I didn't confuse anyone.

scott31

No problem at all for butting in. Thanks for your post.

You mentioned the same arguement that I went thru.

I have leased the last 4 of my cars (Acura Vigor, Legend, Caddy STS, TL)

You are 100% right in your post. Most people go for payment, and in this instance, that was important to me (goal was new car payment was going to be 1/2 of the Caddy payment, and I came close)

I love leasing, it's perfect for me. I'm the type that when the warranty is up on the car, I don't want it, no matter how much I loved it. Plus (like you said) it allows me to get a "better" car that I normally would be able to. No way I could have afforded to buy the Caddy, the payments would have been more than my house.

Usually with a 5 year loan on a car with little to nothing down, the break even point (when you owe on the loan the amount you'd get for trading in the car) is usually about 3 to 3.5 years into the loan. So, if you take my current senario, with the TL and the Matrix, after 3 years, with either car I still have "nothing".

Leasing isn't right for everyone, but it's great for me.

thanks for your in depth analysis! and I still beat the crap out of the dealer on the price of the TL (I use my laptop to compute lease payments (thanks Edmunds for the #$%@# formula) and can tell the dealer what the payments will be before he knows, god I love the internet)

topgun7

For the last 10 years, we had both own and lease car. I think there are several factors that no one talk about that go into the thinking of buying vs leasin:

Tax benefit: if you car is for business, the tax benefit alone will out weight any discussion and leasing is the way to go.

Sales tax: if you buy a car, you pay the sales tax up front for the whole purchase. For leasing, you pay tax on the monthly payment (both interest and depreciation portion of your monthly payment). Since the interest rate is relatively low right now, the sale tax advantage will probably go to leasing.

The risk of lower residual value: Let's say we are going to change car 4 year from now. The manufactorer or the bank will assign a residual value of your car up front for lease. If the car worth a lot more 4 years from now, I have the option of buying the car from them, sell it and pocket the difference. If the car worth a lot less then they predict, I hand them the key and go to the next car. If I buy the car instead, I will take the risk of selling the car at whatever price I can get 4 years from now. This problem probably is worst for new model since predicting the residual 3-4-5 years from now is an art not a science. Chrysler took a big bath when the 300M first come out and they wrote all the lease with pretty high residual value which didn't materialize and Chrsysler has to eat the difference.

Finance rate: sometime lease actually has a better finance rate over buying. And company like lexus, bmw, volvo and jaguar allow you to put in multiple deposit to drive down the interest rate. Car_man in the leasing board mentioned recently that Lexus money factor (finance rate for lease) is about 0.00026 (about 6.24%) but if you put down 9 deposits the rate will go down to 0.00017 (about 4.08%). Not sure if anyone can get a better rate than 4% when buying a lexus.

Car is a depreciating assest no matter how you cut it. A lease give me a fix payment to work with and it help me budget by expenditure.

Owning a car make sense if (a) you drive a lot (over 15kmi a year.(b) keep the car for a long time (6-7-8 years. In our household, we have a business car and we have another car that we drive a lot (about 25kmi to 35 kmi a year) and that is why we always has one lease car and one purchased car for the last 12 years or so...

semantics

Contrary to Toyota's own letter, and I am sorry to admit that it may indeed be very wrong, but you can order build a Matrix or any other bloody car to your liking. Yes, you can. YES YES YES! You can have a matrix built just the way you want, as long as Toyota's able to build it. Ie. the 17" alloys can't come with sunroof, etc... there are items that contradict one another.

But, you can ahve a car the way you want. Find a smart, wise, or diligent person to help you.

katyac

I have two questions for which I would appreciate input.

First, for anyone who lives in a HOT climate--how does the air conditioning perform? I test drove a Matrix today in Phoenix with the outside temp at 102 degrees and felt the A/C had difficulty getting the better of the interior heat. Since it regularly gets into the 110's here, I am a little concerned. Any opinions?

Also, I forgot to ask what grade fuel the car takes. Regular, mid-grade, premium?

Thanks for any input.

lngtonge18

I had the same concern with the AC when I test drove one in 92 humid degrees in Florida. The air never got cold for the entire test drive. It was cool at best and it didn't stop me from sweating (the poor salesman in the backseat was sweating up a storm). The car was black with black cloth so I would assume this is the worst combination for interior heat, but still. As for fuel, 87 for the base and XR models, 91 for the XRS.

joelis

Sorry to burst your bubble, but maybe you should have looked at the LEASE option on the Matrix. Its residual is unbelievable right now, 2nd only to a S2000 in overall production vehicles. It is actually one of the best cars to lease at present time.

I already received a written quote from a local Toyota dealer on a 3 year lease for an XRS with an MSRP of $19,900. ZERO DOWN, and a purchase price of $19,400 - the lease payment before tax was $305. If you wanted to add in your $2100, the payment would go down somewhere around $245 - $250 per month.

The reason I say you got burned, is because it sounds like the Acura people talking in your justification.

Oh, by the way, this story is not all roses for the Matrix: We still do not have an order set up yet since Toyota cannot gaurantee the options we want (which would push the price more into your 20+ range). We got the quote based on the only XRS models that they are currently building for our region.

As other people have said, Toyota sucks at tailoring to people's unique tastes.

nippononly

Why is it that Toyota makes carpeted floor mats an option, costing about $100 in most cases, and then ships EVERY SINGLE CAR with floor mats, so that the option essentially becomes standard? This seems duplicitous to me - a way to make "base price" $100 lower for advertising, then get the money from consumers anyway.

jvkalra

are a modern version of bait and switch, IMO. Their options are simply a way to adjust MSRPs to maximize profit margins.

nippononly

Honda's technique: make everything standard and sell one car at one price - easier to compare that way. I wouldn't mind Toyota's system, except that I expect options to really be OPTIONS.

alexiskai

One thing to keep in mind is that you do have the power to influence what you pay for the options. My Matrix came with automatic, cruise control (the options I wanted), the cassette player, and floor mats (the options I couldn't care less about). When I calculated my offers in the negotiation period, I left the latter two out of the calculation because they had little value to me. In the end I paid $15,600, or about $300 over what invoice would have been for a car wih only the options I wanted, and I thought I got a fair deal. Make it clear to the dealer that you're willing to buy the car, but you won't pay extra for things that you don't value - the dealer will just have to toss them in for free.

matrix123

Hello,

I just got my Matrix (5-speed, base) about a month ago, and I am having a problem which, I suspect, is related to the clutch.
About a 10 days ago, after I started driving the car, I could smell something like burning rubber. I asked the dealer about it and they told me that I probably burned the clutch and that I should stop riding the clutch. The problem is - I don't. This is not my first manual transmission vehicle and I never had this problem before. Ever since that time, once in a while I can smell burning rubber while I'm driving. Called the dealer - the same story: don't ride the clutch. Am I doing something wrong with the way I change gears (doing lots of city driving), or is there a mechanical problem with the clutch (or something else)?
Also, under normal circumstances, how long can I expect my clutch to last? Would it be more cost effective to get an automatic?

Any answer will be much appreciated.

nippononly

by driving style. I am on my original clutch in my Sub Outback Sport, which has 115K miles. But plenty of people, especially who do a lot of stop and go commute driving or like to drive really aggressively, might go thru a clutch every 50K or less.

It is probably OK for there to be a little bit of a smell from a brand new clutch, but if it does not go away within the first 500 miles or so of driving the car, I would take it back to the dealer and have them actually do an inspection (which I would not pay for - this kind of stuff should be under warranty) and make sure nothing is amiss. The reason I say this is when I bought my celica there was a little bit of an odor for the first week or two.

dudleyr

Have them check the clutch adjustment. If you don't have a half inch of freeplay in the pedal before the clutch starts to engage you are wearing out the clutch while you drive, as you are constatly "riding" the clutch even though your foot is not on it. This is a simple adjustment with a mechanical clutch, but I think the Matrix clutch is hydraulic - so take it to the dealer.

I have 142,000 miles on my Integra's original clutch, and I don't expect to have any problems with it before 200,000 miles.

montanafan

Saw a Vibe with a trailer hitch from http://www.etrailer.com that looks like it is a real simple install if any one is looking.

1matrix

If the Matrix is anything like the '96 RAV4, then window tinting might be required to help the A/C cool the car. Here in SE Texas, tinting made a huge difference with my 5-Dr RAV4.

As far as fuel is concerned, 87 octane (regular) is what Toyota specifies. But as the engine gets older in a few years' time, you'll probably need to go up a notch (due to increased compression caused by carbon build-up).

shebert

Just finished a deal on a black XRS, six speed, moonroof, Side Airbags, All-Weather Pkg, Premium Sound: Sticker $21,700 -- Out the door price that I paid (taxes, tags etc.) $20, 200 (I put $1000 down). Whad'ya think?
I bought this vehicle with much consternation due to the "show-no-go" character of the high-revving VVTL-i. Test drove most of the current "hot hatch" offerings before I bought: Subaru WRX Wagon, Protege5, VW GTI 1.8T, VW Golf TDI, Hyundai Elantra GT. My favorite was of course the WRX (wolf in sheeps clothing). But, I couldn't justify around $6000 more for our "second car". If only an auto manufacturer cold combine the HP and AWD of the WRX, the Torque and fuel efficiency of the VW Golf (TDI version 50 mpg), the handling of the Protege5, the price of the Elantra GT and the LOOKS and functional interior of the Matrix ... we'd be in business! I'm definately worried about the narrow power band of my XRS. It's nearly impossible to keep it "in the zone" on upshifts unless you hit redline, depress the clutch lightning quick, and then engage the shifter with cat-like reflexes. I must say though, when it's pumping on that second cam, it's a blast. Anyhow it's too late to whine about it now (and yes, I had driven the XRS before I bought this one). Any other XRS owners out there want to chime in?

xr_matrix

That is a nice hitch...and at $89.99, good value too I would think. Looks very simple to install as well. Good find!

xr_matrix

You definetly did right...my friend. I have an XRS with 2700km on it and I love it more each day. The ideal vehicle in my mind (errr unless they build that glorious beast you referred to...)

The engine is very cammy and you really neat to treat it like you hate it to get the most out of it but they way I look at it is you have a great reliable little do it all vehicle when you need for day to day and when you wanna have some fun, the over 6000 rpm curve is there for you to explore. Gotta love that 6spd...from 3rd to 4th the revs drop only 700 rpm even while shifting at 4000rpm...nice ratio selection.

barresa62

Nice car, congrats! I do wonder though, how you come up w/the WRX wagon or sedan being 6k over 21,700. Did you put every option available on the WRX including the outrageously priced BBS wheels? My WRX wagon at full retail (the 1st allocation in WA State over a year ago) was $25,000 including console extension, auto dimming mirror/compass, and security upgrade. You can buy a WRX now easily for $500 over invoice, so quite a bit less than I paid. Anyhow, the XRS you bought sounds like a ball of fun...congrats again. :-)

Stephen

shebert

Baressa62, The only silver WRX wagon I could find within 100 miles was loaded with everything: short-throw shift, security, all guages, cargo mat/organizer, etc. etc. It even had one of those cheesy dealer add-on MSRP stickers for undercoating, paint protection and pinstriping, ugh!. They wouldn't budge on price at all! Anyhow, I think I'll be happy with the XRS. Even though it's rated as having less cargo space, it seems more "usable" than the WRX wagon.

rljaco

Hi, my wife just got, ten days ago, a cosmic blue AWD XR. We paid $500 over invoice in Northern California. Does anyone have any info as to whether it can take a class 2 trailer hitch, which we would like to use for an easy access bike rack. Has anyone had any good bike rack (4 bikes) solutions? Thanks.

webguyster

If this is your first "New" manual, then you are probably burning the clutch, and you will shorten the life of the clutch significantly. Old used and abused clutches wont smell, and therefore you will not notice the abuse, until new clutch time. Since the Matrix is aimed at the 20 something Gen-X er's, like the Civic SI is/was, it would not be surprising if some of the drivers drove more agressive than they thought. I enjoy when a car load of gen "X", Abercrombie kids, with a manual Civic, tries to take me at a stop light, with my little auto tranny V-6. Looks like they are really trying. We were all kids before.

The trailer hitch can probably be found at etrailer.com.

montanafan

Saw the Vibe with the hitch again. This time got to see the simple installation instructions. "NOTE: Matrix XRS & XR Sport Plus models have added center fascia that must be removed for hitch installation" Sorry I made my earlier post without this info.

docterstupid

When we bought our Camry in 1997 (brand new 1998 model), we also noted a funny smell (like something was burning )after driving it for a few days. Took it back to the dealership where we were told it was some sort of protective coating(???) that had to burn off of the engine. Sure enough, they let us test drive another model, and the same smell emanated from it. The smell went away after about 10-15 days of driving. By the way, both were automatic and both were built in Japan.
I hope your problem smell goes away!!!

matrix123

Thanks for all the suggestions. I took the car to the dealer and, sure enough, they didn't find anything wrong. They told me that they smelled "new car smell" and that's all. This is not my first "stick" but this is the first time this is happening. I do a lot of city stop-and-go driving. Is there anything I can do to lenghten the life of the clutch?

webguyster

The protective coating makes the car smell like it's on fire for about a week or so, depending on driving habits. All new cars smell like this! A burning clutch will smell different, and be intermittant.

webguyster

Unless you change your driving habits, and change to all highway driving, it's a part of the car, like brakes, designed to wear out. Thats what it does everytime you use it. IMO, just don't abuse the car, or clutch to look and sound cool, no peeling out, or dragging, and just drive like Ms. Daisy!

1matrix

Any Matrix owners out there have the optional DVD Nav System? How well does it work for you?

I just read a very critical review of the Navigation System found on the Matrix (see http://www.thecarplace.com/agtrix.htm). I opted for the Nav System when I ordered my car (a $1,890 option), but now I am having second thoughts.

1matrix

Correct link to review (very positive, except for Nav System:

http://www.thecarplace.com/agtrix.htm

epski

I really like my Nav system. That guy simply didn't read the instruction manual. Don't pay him any mind. I already sent him an e-mail explaining what he was doing wrong. Damn Internet misinforms as well as it informs.

rascalb3

Does anyone have a Matrix without power windows? What are the buttons on the driver's armrest where the window controls usually are?

alexiskai

If you don't get power windows, there are no buttons on the armrest.

leafguy2727

O.k. I'm now up to 8200km

Got my first oil change at 7800. $32 at Whitby Toyota

On the milage I'd say it started doing really well after 5000km

RESS (rotten egg smell syndrome)- Was told this is a result of the break-in period on new converters, I must say it is finally virtually gone.

CD - Yes exact problem, grinding when braking. My new one is on order, should only take a few days and 30 minutes was what I was told it would take to install, was happy to hear a "radio guy" was not being called in and that they do it themselves. Go figure, the one GM part doesn't work. God I hate GM, but anyways.

On the armrest issue, I've have no complaints at all. I guess everyone has different opinions.

AC TIP - When you first get going put in on inner circulation, it cools down WAY WAY WAY faster!!

johnclineii

Leafguy2727, the radio is not a GM part. GM does not make or sell automotive radioes, and hasn't for years. There are, however, MANY other GM parts in the Matrix. GM designed virtually the entire interior. GM and Toyota cooperate in many ways, and not just at Fremont. And Toyota agreed to the specs of any GM parts in the Matrix, which meet or exceed Toyota quality specs.

For the record I do not own shares in, work for, nor am I associated with General Motors or Toyota Motor Manufacturing. I have had Toyota products with excellent service records. I currently own a 2000 Chevy Impala with 88,000 miles on it which has YET to have its first nonscheduled repair or maintenance.

So, you might ask, why am I here? I may buy a wagon next time round. I know the word isn't fashionable right now, but Matrices and Vibes are wagons as I see them. I am impressed with the Matrix/Vibe. I have a conundrum of my own. The Vibe is about 1500 bucks more than the Matrix, equipped the way I would want one. But, the Pontiac dealer here does EXCELLENT service work, is easy to deal with and is a good friend. But I still don't like the cladding. Also, you can buy a Vibe equipped the way you want. SOMETIMES, you can get a Toyota that way. If they are building them that way that month and they decide to ship some to your distributor. Sigh.