Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

hunter001

True. The handling difference between the WRX and the OBS is mainly due to the suspension. The OBS suspension is softer, which leads to slightly mushier handling. I believe the WRX steering is also quicker than the OBS, which also contributes to added responsiveness.

Later...AH

tiki

I own a 2003 CR-V EX and 2003 WRX wagon. Both have MT. Both cars are excellent, but are quite different. I realize this may sound predictable, but CR-V is much larger inside than the WRX wagon - both from a passenger and cargo perspective. Obviously, the WRX is much more fun to drive, and handles far better. The CR-V 2.4 liter engine is smooth and has good torque and power. It also has a better shifter than the WRX. But the WRX has much better steering, handling and on some roads a better ride.

kevin111

I know this was discussed before, but with respect to snow building up in the tire wells, what is the best way to remedy this?

- Thought I remember hearing about mud flaps, and a silicon spray for the rims, but curious what you guys though.

Volkov - Possibly look at the Mazda3? The hatch, I think is as roomy as the WRX and has FWD and less expensive. Also handles well. I think you can get Traction control with it.

In terms of snow handling though, it is tough to beat a Subaru.

ateixeira

In the US the Forester gets a lot more equipment and therefore carries a higher MSRP than the CR-V. The US CR-V does not offer heated seats, or heated mirrors, or a front wiper de-icer, or a rear wiper de-icer, or turbo power. You also get 3 channel ABS instead of 4 for Subaru, and a 3/36 warranty instead of 5/60 for Subaru, plus Subaru has 3 years' roadside assistance vs. none for Honda. 16" rims vs. 15" for Honda. S rated tires, vs. H. The list gets longer.

So here, the Subaru has more comprehensive equipment that justifies the higher prices.

I bet a lot of those things are missing from Canadian CR-Vs as well.

-juice

prayerfor

I'm thinking of getting the 17 in Subaru wheels for my 2002 WRX wagon and using the original 16's for snow tires.

Here's what I did:
* ran the stock 16" rims and RE92 tires for 20K or so miles (took 'em off before their second winter).
* replaced the RE92s with snow tires (Dunlop Wintersport M2)
* purchased a set of 17" Rota rims with more aggressive rubber for use in the summer.

At the time, Subaru wanted like $3K for their forged BBS wheels...without tires! The other 17" option (a Subaru OEM rim) was like half as much IIRC, also without tires.

I ended up spending ~$400 on the winter tires, another $400 on the summer tires, and $600 on the 17" rims... or altogether about what Subaru wanted for the alternate 17" rims alone.

Bottom line, I would never consider spending the $$$ Subaru wants for their OEM rims, let alone the BBS rims. Rota makes several cool styles in Subaru specs, and they're all in that $500-$600 range.

volkov

For ruining my day and making me bitter towards Subaru! ;-) Gave some thoughts to their good advice re the Forester XT and decided to give it a chance by at least driving it. Before I even began, I thought it best to give it the 3 booster seat test. What do you know, it fails. The fixed narrow mounts for the seatbelt latches won't allow a booster seat to be easily or securely fastened in. I had never gotten around to actually bringing all 3 seats and trying them in a Forester. After wrestling with the latches I finally got everything locked in but then the middle booster ends up tilted and unstable because it is sitting ON the latches not between them like it should. Can't even imagine how frustrating it would have been with the boys actually sitting on them at the time - probably would have taught them some new words!!
Remember, the Legacy Outback was even worse. Hey Subaru, maybe you should try to make your 5 passenger family cars capable of carrying 3 young children!! I know I must be sounding like a broken record, but the security of my children is the first thought when putting them in a vehicle, and the current recommendations are that kids ride booster seats til they are about 8. I can't be the only person with this issue.
While I'm ranting, can someone tell me why it costs 5k to upgrade from the 2.5 engine in the OBS to the 2.0 Turbo in the WRX, but less than $1k to upgrade from the same engine to an even more expensive albeit detuned 2.5L Turbo in the Forester? Heck the FXT with cloth and that sweet gigantic moonroof is actually cheaper than the WRX with moon roof!! What gives?

locke2c

the FXT is a screaming good deal, period.

~c

kevin111

"I'm thinking of getting the 17 in Subaru wheels for my 2002 WRX wagon and using the original 16's for snow tires."

- Another option is getting all-season performance tires, such as the Michelin Pilot Sport A&S, the Continental Contact Extremes, and the Pirreli P-Zero Nero M&S. These tires are very close to their Summer Tire counterparts in terms of handling and breaking, yet can handle snow pretty well (yes, they are still a compromise in both areas).
    After getting the Pilot Sport A&S, my handling and breaking dramatically increased vs. the Potenzas. Still have the "16 wheels, and for every-day driving, might consider the 17" wheels for looks only.

"While I'm ranting, can someone tell me why it costs 5k to upgrade from the 2.5 engine in the OBS to the 2.0 Turbo in the WRX, but less than $1k to upgrade from the same engine to an even more expensive albeit detuned 2.5L Turbo in the Forester? Heck the FXT with cloth and that sweet gigantic moonroof is actually cheaper than the WRX with moon roof!! What gives? "

- The FXT is a great deal.

The WRX has the more powerful engine, better seats, Rear LSD, upgraded stereo, upgraded suspension, and a couple of other upgrades that justify the price increase. Never considered the RS (well, in '98 I did).

- If you do not really want the increase in power the WRX gives, go with an RS.

locke2c

LOL... the WRX's engine is most definitely NOT more powerful than the Forester XT's.

drive them both, stock.

~c

socprofinblrex

I have one of those early WRX wagons (2002 purchased 11/2001) that gets CEL's with no noticably running problems. Though I thought the dealer had diagnosed and addressed the CEL on a previous occasion as a computer that needed replacement the dealer had no record that the computer had been sent in previously (I don't think I dreamed doing this before), so we did it (again). I hope this fixes it, but at least a correctly operating computer will give an accurate code if another CEL occurs and their is an actual problem.

The upside turned out to be the opportunity to drive the Forester XT. The dealer provides a free rental during this service and has their own rental agency within. They are always short of Subarus as replacement rides as rentals/loaners (I guess the other Subie owners ask for Subie loaners, too), but before they went to get me the usual Kia due to lack of Subies, I told them I really wanted a Subaru. The service area had a Forester auto XT that they pried out of someone's hands and let me use for two days during service. Only 1500 miles on it so not even broken in.

Limited Review:

It was a nice ride I guess. Nice excelleration, decent handling, decent breaking. I liked the sightlines out the rear sides compared to the pillars in the WRX wagon. If I were going on more trips and had more roominess issues I might think hard about getting this vehicle as it felt like a decent combination of space and sportiness, but...

I missed my WRX wagon. My wagon handles better, maneuvers better, has more feedback, and I'm doubting the auto XT can out-run the manual WRX even with my lesser low-end torque. The XT sure felt a lot heavier and it seemed the turbo didn't just add some zip, but worked to overcome the additional weight I was wielding around.

All in all, I think its about preference because the XT sure feels worthy (though it sure was thurstier than my WRX). I made the right choice out of the Subaru stable (for me) and I guess I'm glad there is a Forester and Forester XT.

The only serious Subaru upgrade for me in wagon form might be the turbo configuration in a legacy wagon unless Subaru wants to listen to people on these boards calling for a WRX sti wagon! The size of the Impreza and the wagon version work best to my tastes so the 2.5L turbo would be the best upgrade over the 2.0L turbo.

IF you have a Forester XT you must be enjoying it, but, like I said, I still really enjoy my WRX wagon with 46,000 miles.

Thomas in Mpls

volkov

I just left a very similar post over at the XT board. Just got back after picking up my new WRX wagon. Had been hanging around the boards as I tried to decide between the WRX vs a Forester/CR-V as the final fun versus function decision. The F-XT was an alternative. I was disappointed on my first try with it, because it wouldn't accommodate a middle booster seat properly because of the seat belt latch spacing. Anyway, I shopped around until I found booster with a narrower frame track, and went back. Test drove the XT and liked it, but I'll still take the WRX. Yep it is a touch slower on a straight line 0-60, but who drives like that? Come do timed routes on my local rural roads and the 'Rex will destroy the XT. Even at the same speed the WRX "feels" faster and a heck of a lot more stable. Anyone remember the original Civic Si? It wasn't that fast, but it felt fast. I loved that feeling in my Civic and just got it back when I test drove the WRX. Don't get me wrong, I'd kill to have the XT's low end torque in the WRX wagon.
Still, if I had decided on the Forester I would have stuck with the XS. No matter how big or powerful an engine you drop in that puppy, it's no sports car. I actually found the handling worse in the XT than the XS - big surprise right - more power means the car gets thrown around more. I just hope we don't have a bunch of kids modding Dad's old F-XT to run like an STi in a couple of years. That could get real scary if they don't do the suspension upgrades, then Foresters will become the Ford Explorers of the new millenium. Roll, roll, roll.

Kevin: Yeah I know I get a lot of other unseen ugrades for the cash, that's why she handles sooooo sweeeet. But couldn't they offer the 2.5T as a WRX upgrade too?? I'm not sure if I'd have bought it, but I'm sure others would and I doubt they would be cannibalizing full blown STi sales given that car is in another price range all together.

beanboy

I'm thinking the Legacy GT will be for me. Handling and sporty feel of a WRX with the low-end grunt and overall greater power of the 2.5L turbo with 250HP. Of course, it should for the extra $$$. How much extra will be a big factor.

-B

mluko

My 2002 WRX Wagon has an irritating rattle that sounds like its coming from the exhaust system- maybe a heat shield touching a pipe or the catalytic converter. This always occurs at 3200-3300 rpm. I had an ordinary 2000 Impreza wagon with the identical problem. Otherwise, the car is tight and solid for a 2 yr old car. Has anyone else heard this? Fixes?

locke2c

thomas, drive a MANUAL forester XT.

~c

nixomose

Remember my broken mirror? Well, I went back and had a chat with the service manager to basically told me to stuff it. But he said he'd take the mirror (I'm glad I kept it) and show it to their roving field rep (apparently a subaru guy comes out and checks on them every few months) and they'd see what he said.
Well, apparently he overruled them. They called me up and told me they'd be sending me a check for the $280 I paid them. Haven't seen the check yet, but I expect they're good for it.

Meanwhile, last year when the strut broke, I had rented a car (they paid for it) while they were working on the strut. Well, 11 months later (and curiously the same week as the fiasco with the mirror) enterprise rent-a-car calls me up and says subaru never paid for the rental so they're charging my credit card, thank you have a nice day.

So I called up subaru of america and just screamed and screamed (I was still quite fuming about the mirror) and after very colorfully explaining why I didn't call the dealership he sent me a check for the cost of the rental car.
So kudos to subaru of america, stay the hell away from curry subaru in yorktown, new york.

As for reliability, well, the mirror broke and the strut leaked. in 19K miles in 2 years. Flukes, maybe, but my piece of mitsubishi never had a problem in 8 years 140K, you decide.

hypov

andmoon

volkov,
Congrats and enjoy! Many here will flat out lie and tell you otherwise but it is a fact that the silver ones are the fastest and best handling.
Don

socprofinblrex

My rough comparison to my current ride (manual WRX wagon) and the Auto F-XT I had for two days shouldn't be considered a slight to the XT as I liked it a lot and it could clearly do more than most other vehicles on the road for its body style, engine, handling, and price.

As suggested, comparing a manual XT since I have a manual WRX would be worth checking and the added control of the transmission in a manual XT would, I imagine, be fun to experience when making this comparison, but I fell into this comparison and I was more interested in the handling differences of Forester to WRX which I found to be pretty significant and favor the WRX wagon.

The fact that my WRX and the XT have as much horsepower as they respectively do seemed to allow for some comparison of driving experience and handling across the differences in body styles. The sporty handling differences between WRX and XT are going to be influenced more by body style, center of gravity, and overall weight, it seems to me, and I believe it explains more of the differences in driving experience than did the manual to auto difference in transmissions.

The extral horsepower of the XT is cool, fun, sporty for a Forester to Forester comparison just as I'd imagine the extra horsepower from the WRX to the STI would feel even more cool, fun, and sporty in the Imprezas (though I'm betting the latter is a greater differential in driver experience). But my WRX wagon (due to body style, center of gravity, etc.) is what wins me over when I compare the sportiness and handling.

To get the horsepower, handling, etc., at the max its obvious the current choice is an STI, but its only in a sedan. I'm sold on the wagon format for now and so my dream Subaru would be a WRX STI Impreza wagon. I gladly wave to my fellow Subaru drivers of all kinds (Foresters, Imprezas, Legacies, Baja's)in turbo or non-turbo versions as its still one large family. We've made some good choices because Subaru has provided some with more on the horizon (just not a WRX STI wagon).

Thomas in Mpls

bluesubie

Wow, some very biased subjective comments in these threads.

I drove a WRX wagon for a year and I've put 4,000 miles on my new XT. Yes the WRX can outhandle the XT, but the difference is not as great as some of you make it out to be.

And volkov: "Come do timed routes on my local rural roads and the 'Rex will destroy the XT."

Sorry, but that's just plain wrong. ;-)

-Dennis

jim_loves_cars

"Wow, some very biased subjective comments in these threads."

What do you expect? It's the WRX Wagon board...

-Jim

bluesubie

p0926

What do you expect? It's the WRX Wagon board


That's the reason why I didn't say anything. Besides, both are great vehicles and we're all one big happy family so no need to criticize each other right?

-Frank P (FXT owner)

volkov

Bias is a predetermined inclination to a point of view. I drove both vehicles with an open mind to their respective performance, before I chose which one to buy. Remember, I spent two hours running around with a tape measure trying to find a booster seat that would fit in the middle position so the XT could actually be a valid option. I drove them back-to back on the same test loop. You have no idea how much I wanted the XT to handle like the WRX. After driving it, I'd still had more fun behind the wheel of the WRX so I bought that.
What I meant was that the WRX COULD be faster on some of the roads I often drive. I'm talking about pushing the limits here, not regular driving. These are hilly, winding dirt roads which are snow packed 5 months of the year. Some are logging roads with no real speed limits. Very much like some rally courses really. Speed into and out of turns are much more the issue than just straight line acceleration. As a parallel, what I mean is that a rally driver would rather compete in a stock WRX than an XT. Am I wrong?
As I posted in another thread, it's just about personal taste. I am biased, but my bias is that I favour vehicle handling over acceleration. The Forester doesn't handle badly at all. On my second drives I decided it was better than the CR-V especially on those roads I described above which right now are an even mixture of mud, gravel and ice. I consider myself lucky that I get to drive on roads like this on a semi-regular basis, and the WRX was the most fun I've ever had doing it :-).

bluesubie

I'm talking about pushing the limits here, not regular driving. These are hilly, winding dirt roads which are snow packed 5 months of the year.

I regularly get together with some guys from another board for drives like you describe. Most of them drive WRX's and STi's. I recently met up with them and had no problems keeping up on the twisties of NW NJ.
The biggest drawbacks were the tires (light truck Geolanders) and the swaybar. I just address the latter (like I did with the WRX wagon) this past weekend.

The Forester "doesn't handle badly" sounds better than it will be the "new Explorer".

Which one would a rally driver choose? Oh that's easy. Just ask rally driver Paul Eklund.:-)

From http://www.challengedriving.com/
"The Challenge Driving Subarus crossed the finish line 3-4-5 at the 2004 Winter Alcan. After nine days of competition and 4600 miles traversed, less than 10 seconds separated their scores.

The Subaru Forester Turbo of Paul Eklund, Kala Rounds and Gary Reid came in third overall and first in Class III (no rally computer), and dominated the rally ice races with 3.2 points (studded class). The Forester gained on the front-running BMW teams on the final day but ended up 20 points (or two ice races) short. Still, it was the only time in recent memory when computer-equipped competitors were hounded to the finish line by a Class III car.

Glenn Wallace, Greg Hightower and Francesca Carozza in a Subaru WRX STi held off pressure by the Horst/Willey car to secure first in Class I and fourth overall. The team, novices to the Alcan, ran an excellent race and were the highest-placed "rookie" team. They scored third overall in the ice races (studded class)."

-Dennis

ateixeira

WRX wins on smooth pavement, but which would you rather have on a bumpy, pot-hole laden road with uneven seams? Or over a speed bump? Or on a gravel/dirt trail?

It's a matter of preference.

BTW, it's not like Foresters are rolling over, have you seen even one? I've seen only one, and it was lifted 4" anyway, plus it happened off road.

-juice

volkov

(cross posted on XT board)
The roll, roll, roll was meant as a comment on Explorers.
What I was trying to do was make a smart @ss comment about how overpowered Foresters (modified, not a stock XT)in the hands of teenagers who drive as recklessly as I type posts could be a recipe for disaster. Heck, my kids won't be driving for 10 years but I've already decided they won't be getting the WRX as a hand me down. NO WAY!

mluko

A STI wagon...? Would anyone else like to see one?

paisan

On the SBDs... After attending one I will not attend them anymore, way way too unsafe for the community and drivers involved. Keep on the track guys, it's way way safer.

-mike

volkov

nm

hypov

Sunday Backroad Drive

-Dave

volkov

Just checking if anyone has anything to add/dissent. The mechanic at the dealership said not to worry much about break in. In fact, he said not to baby it too much during break in, that they actually like to be pushed a little. Don't go out racing it or running on the highway at 4000 rpm but otherwise not to be afraid to raise the revs occasionally to 5k or so during accelerations as I drive around town.
 
Anyone have feedback on the armrest extension. I'd like to get one to give me a more ergonomic height to rest my elbow. Do they fit well for height relative to the shifter?

socprofinblrex

I said I like my WRX wagon. I said I liked the XT. I said I preferred the handling with my WRX over the handling of the Forester. They both have amazing excelleration with the turbo. I said I liked the choices available in the Subaru stable and wished for an STI wagon rather than an XT as a potential replacement for my WRX wagon.

I didn't trash the XT or Forester in general by stating a preference and basis for it. One can have preferences and biases that lead to unreasonable assertions. One can have preferences and biases that can lead to reasonable assertions as long as one identifies those very bases which is what I attempted to do.

If my preferences were different as they are for other Subaru (such as XT) drivers I could imagine prefering the XT because, again, it is the preferences that make my choice and there is much to like/love about the XT. If the XT showed an ability to handle more closely to what I have become accustomed to with my WRX wagon I would have felt differently on that basis. The XT handles well; just not like a WRX. For those whose preferences have a different priority I would expect their choice to come out differently. That's not grounds for an argument in my opinion. Just a clarification of what factors determined the outcome.

Thomas in Mpls

locke2c

the STi sedan has been a slow seller, so I really really doubt an STi wrx wagon is coming ever.

~c

volkov

What about an engine upgrade then?? The Forester got it, why can't we? Our suspension in stock form is even better suited to it. The local dealer says he sells the WRX wagons 3:1 over the sedans, so maybe that's the problem with STi sales. Then again, we're probably a really weird consumer profile up here.

volkov

I know where you are coming from. I'm staying over here for a while. I posted my personal opinions over on the XT board and based on the responses you swear I'd posted Ralph Nader's "Unsafe at any speed" and pasted in "Forester XT" whenever it said "Corvair".
Aren't we sporty WRX people supposed to be the high strung ones?
Ach, I love my new Rex, and I certainly wouldn't have been crushed to buy an XT, which really moved up in the pack during my deliberations. Still, it's just who we are. No right or wrong.
Let's just move on, this is the Rex wagon board, so what are my must have aftermarket add-ons? Anyone done anything to bump up the performance on their rig?? Love to hear.

PS "socprofinblrex" weren't you the guy in Superman from another dimension who had to be tricked into saying his name backwards?

bluesubie

But I felt that there were things stated as facts that got me riled up. Hey, disagreeing makes this board fun. :-)

AH, you out there? ;-)

I don't think that the WRX will ever get the 2.5T. The AVCS on the JDM 2.0 (and N. American 2.5's) would bump up h.p. to around 250 though.

-Dennis

locke2c

I think there will be changes to the WRX engine, but I'm not sure if it will be a 2.0 or a 2.5 for the North American market. if it is a 2.0 I'd be pretty surprised if it doesn't have variable valve timing.

~c

hypov

STi aside, the 2.0l will be steadfast in the WRX engine bay. 227hp is plenty for the basic day-to-day driving.

-Dave

locke2c

it's inferior to the Forester XT's powerplant and improvements could be had regardless of the peak HP rating.

~colin

bluesubie

I wonder how the JDM 2.0 feels off the line? I'm sure you could find reviews at Paul Hansen's site (the name escapes me).

If any changes come, it would probably be with the next redesign. I have a feeling I'm not going to be crazy about the Zapatinas(sp?) designs. Oh well, function over form.

-Dennis

ateixeira

Forester's engine, besides the obvious 25% edge in displacement, also has the semi-closed deck block from the STi, AVCS, and some forged internals.

If the STi does go to 330hp as rumored, the WRX could get the 250hp 2.5T that will go in the Legacy.

-juice

lark6

I've driven both WRX wagons and Forester XTs (though I own neither at the moment, nor have I driven them to the extent that bluesubie, who HAS owned both, has) and have posted my impressions elsewhere in Town Hall.

I'll summarize my opinions by stating that the two are "horses for courses"; however, if forced to choose between the two I'm of the opinion that a set of performance tires and a stiffer rear sway bar narrows the gap between the two in terms of handling. Even if you put a lowering suspension on an XT to get it at the same ride height as a WRX wagon, you are still going to have a higher center of gravity due to the taller greenhouse. The three factors of power band, cargo space utility and that intangible "stealth factor" (bluesubie, weigh in please! ;-)) tip the balance in favor of the XT for me. I can adjust my driving style accordingly.

As for SBDs: Dennis, I'm inclined to lean toward paisan's point of view here. I'll take it offline with both of you. Having said that I don't know that tracks (outside of NASA-X and SCCA Rallycross) are particularly Forester friendly these days.

Ed

bluesubie

Was a big reason for me. All it took was seeing my Rex with $10,000 in damage. Not to mention all of the others, especially the torched ones.

Re: SBD's. I didn't want to comment any more on that. A lot of things we all do can be interpreted as unsafe. Like charging up the GSP at over 90 mph with a dozen Scooby's (*cough* 48 Hrs *cough*).
Ha, I got left at the back since I wasn't past the break-in period yet. Pot calling the kettle black maybe? ;-)

-Dennis

paisan

How is the milage difference between the 2.5T in a WRX v. a 2.0T don't forget they'll be bucking against the EPA figures if they got 2.5 across the board.

-mike

bluesubie

Well the Outback truck will help out with CAFE. :-)

WRX manual is rated at 20/27, while the XT is rated at 18/23. Put the 2.5T in the WRX and, of course, the mpg ratings will go down and a lot of folks will complain about that.

-Dennis

ateixeira

They could gear it a little taller. The XT has ultra-short gearing. I think it needs 3rd gear to hit 60.

-juice

locke2c

ugh, please no. that's what is so wrong about the WRX is the (nearly) wide-ratio transmission. it's seriously overgeared. the Forester XT's ratios are much nicer.

no one gets what the WRX is rated at, and I bet a Forester XT can easily top that paltry 23 mpg on the highway!

~c

p0926

I bet a Forester XT can easily top that paltry 23 mpg on the highway!

Can and does :-p

-Frank P.

ateixeira

OK, then, gimme 6 ratios. Just add a tall 6th, basically. )

-juice

hunter001

I think whether it is the WRX's 2.0 or the 2.5L turbo in the XT, you can't go wrong with either. The torque deficiency experienced down low by the WRX engine is lessened in the XT's 2.5L turbo. Depending on your needs, you could pick either of them. As juice said, a 6th gear in the XT will do wonders for the highway mileage, while not sacrificing the around town responsiveness.

Later...AH