Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

andmoon

I did some 'self rotor resurfacing' and was quite surprised that most of my steering shake is gone...I always wondered how warped rotors sometimes 'cured' themselves. With late model cars I have been very gentle on the brakes thinking that there is a lot more 'warpage' than with older models, but that might have made the problem worse by causing more buildup.
Now to see how long this quick fix lasts.
Don

zman

I just came across a friend who is selling his '03 WRX wagon to get an '04 Forester XT. It has just under 30,000 miles. What am I going to find with this wagon re: reliabilty? I like the way it drives, and though it does not have the visibility of the Forester, it does seem to combine performance and efficiency (my beef with the Forester XT and probably the new Outback XT). I don't need a whole lot of room; as it's a second car to replace a VW New Beetle.

Zman

ateixeira

Well, it should be more reliable (on average) than the New Beetle, so I would consider it a pretty safe bet.

New WRXs are being discounted now, I've seen wagons under $21k. Make sure you're paying less than that, maybe $19k or so plus options.

If you know he took care of it, jump on it.

-juice

bkaiser1

My 04 wagon has been absolutely reliable in its first 15k miles, which is more than I can say for my Outback in its first year. I've not been back to the dealer once and the car seems to be built much tighter than my other Subie was, or at least that's my impression of it so far.

If the 03 you're looking at has been maintained well and you're comfortable with the previous owner's driving style, then I'd jump on it...plus, it's the last of the bug-eyes! Also, I MUCH prefer the 03 seats to the 04 ones, in case you were considering a new WRX instead.

Brian

zman

It's in beautiful shape with all records; just a lot of highway miles (for a year and a half). He's getting only 16k on a trade-in, so he's willing to let me have it for 17.5k (roughly the sales tax differential).

Looks like a good deal.

Zman

ateixeira

I'd take it.

-juice

saintviper

Just hit 70,000 miles on my 02. Not a single problems so far.

bkaiser1

That sounds like an excellent deal, particularly since you know the history of the vehicle. I wouldn't worry one bit about the car, or the deal, as it sounds like a great opportunity for you.

Brian

mluko

I bought a 2002 WRX wagon that came with a HKS Turbo Timer. I've never owned a Turbo charged car before and I'm wondering if these devices are really necessary for Turbo longevity. Should I be using this everytime I park the car? I would appreciate input.

bluesubie

Our turbos continue to run coolant for a few minutes even after the engine is shutdown. The owner's manual doesn't even mention that a cool down is required.

For peace of mind, I do let my turbo cool for about a minute or so after hard driving or prolonged interstate driving.

-Dennis

dnestr

Motor oil is the thing should be continued to run after the engine is off, not the coolant. It prevents oil carbonization (coking) into turbine's bearings. Dennis is right, there is not any reference to use TT in the owner's manual, but my FXT has a sticker where is written something like "let the car work idling for a while after long trip at a high speed." My HKS TT works in auto mode, it never continues to run the engine after town hard traffic, but always after highway motion. Also there are some extra options like 0-60 acceleration, compatibility with alarm system, etc.

Mluko, leave it in auto and forget. Your TT will never bother to get fun of driving, I bet.

For the record, in my country used turbo vehicle equipped with TT has 5-10% extra cost, just they consider it prolongs engine life.

Regards.

karl1973

My understanding on this issue is that the coolant cools down the turbo after the car is turned off, so the oil doesn't get cooked (turned into carbon).
Some other turbo charged cars (Saab 900s come to mind) don't have water cooled turbos and are proned to such problems.

locke2c

karl, actually the coolant and oil both go nowhere after the engine stops running. a watercooled turbo does run a bit cooler but you'll still coke the oil in the center section if you run it until glowing hot and then shut it right off.

the best solution is synthetic oil combined with a turbo timer. synthetic alone is the biggest factor, though.

~c

volkov

I wanted a small car that had AWD/FWD,an open back end where I could put a muddy/wet dog and a back seat with 3 headrests to accomodate my 3 young sons when used as a backup family car. (we have a Suburban as the primary family and dog transporter).
I couldn't believe it when I found the WRX wagon -one car that could fulfill my needs AND be the small roadster of my teenage dreams. My wife keeps telling me that based on the smile on my face I should buy it, but my research on the net does suggest prior tranny problems and Subaru being hesitant to cover problems under warranty. Does anyone have any real info on this?? Have there been any changes to the transmission for 04? This car would rarely be pushed as I drive it to and from work on city streets for 90% of its workload, but I love what it's got for hauling on dirt roads and snow on my way to trailheads. This baby will be driven like a rally car every chance I get if I buy it. I'd be getting the 5 speed if that if pertinent. If I don't make any mods, how can the company refuse to honor warranty without proof of abuse/racing?? This is the last hurdle to buying, so any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

karl1973

Of course they go nowhere after the engine stops
It was my understanding that the coolant will move by itself (is it possible??!!) due to the cooling effect and the location of the reservoir.
Or maybe I am just imagining things (I better stop sucking in those fumes at work).
Re: transmission.
Internet forums are like magnet for complaints. For the most part, people don't say anything if everything is working fine. The majority of transmission problems are probably encountered by people who put too much power to the car, or don't know how to drive a manual. I have put over 58k miles on my wagon in 28 months and I have not had any issues with my transmission.

dnestr

volkov,

FHI has made new 5speed auto tranny for a Legacy and OB. Others have no any changes.

BTW, is "volkov" descended from "wolf"? :-)

beanboy

I do believe there was an official response from Subaru about the ability for the coolant to remain moving at a limited capacity after engine shut-off:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding cooling down the turbo engine in our WRX models. Our position regarding this is that it is not necessary to perform a 'cool down/idling' procedure, as was recommended with past turbo models. Our current turbo engine has far greater cooling capacity and coupled with technological advances, makes this practice no longer necessary. This explains why information about a cool down is not included in the Owner's Manual.
To further explain, the heat contained in the turbo charger will begin to vaporize the coolant in the turbo charger after the engine is stopped. The hot vapor will enter the coolant reservoir tank, which is the highest point of the coolant system. At the same time that the vapor exits that turbo charger, coolant supplied from the right bank cylinder head flows in to the charger. This action cools the turbo charger down. This process will continue until the vaporizing action in the turbo charger has stopped or cooled down.

John J. Mergen
Subaru of America, Inc.

-B

cptplt

I am on my 4th Subaru and have never had warranty issues with Subaru.I still have a 98 Legacy and a 02 WRX. With the WRX it is quite likely that a lot of kids have been abusing the vehicle or modding it. If you do either, any manufacturer can void the warranty on the parts in question. Quite a lot of this I am sure has to do with the individual dealer. The clutch on all pre03 Subarus had some cold shudder problems which were fixed in recent years. My 02 WRX just got a new clutch from Subaru no questions asked as it had the cold shudder problem. My friends can't believe Subaru would replace a clutch under warranty for a "boy racer" car!
Some people say the stock WRx clutch isn't strong enough and certainly the STi has a differnet clutch , but its also got a 6 speed. Some after market WRX upgrades use the stock clutch, in fact Car & Driver tested one such system from some California company. The mods put out something like in the high 200s hp and that company said the stock clutch was more than adequate .

locke2c

karl, nope the coolant flowing around a turbocharger's center section won't circulate without the water pump forcing it to do so.



~colin

dnestr

John, thank you very much for the response. This is the excellent formulated explanation I had been looking for since my dealer made me an offer to upgrade my FXT with the TT. Does a Forester 2,5XT (2,0XT) have the same cooling system? Did the SOA make any other official statements on this subject on other websites? If so, may I get the links? Thanks again.

BTW, I wish Subaru of Russia has such well technical educated people on its forum.

mluko

OK- another dumb question regarding turbos- What exactly is my Boost Guage telling me? I notice that when the engine is off, the guage is 0. When running of course it fluctuates but mostly stays in the minus area and I assume as the Turbo spools up it goes into the plus range. How can I use this instrument to get the best performance out of my WRX?

kevin111

The '02 WRXs were known to have tranny troubles. I believe this had more to do with abuse, clutch-drops, and power mods than the tranny itself.

The '03 WRXs received a bleeder-valve on the clutches to reduce stress and pressure when trying to do a clutch drop (eliminating the ability to do hi rev-clutch drops) and the tranny issue went away.

In other words, the tranny is not the issue, the kids buying these cars are.

nine51

The WRX turbo self cools itself when the engine is off by thermo-syphoning the coolant through the turbo. As the coolant heats up it rises up to the coolant tank near the top of the engine, and it is replaced by cooler coolant from below. If you use synthetic oil, the cokeing oil problem is pretty much eliminated.

The 02 WRX had clutch shudder problems. Many were replaced by Subaru if they weren't abused or modded. Mine was replaced at 34K. Has 50K on it now and its just fine. These things are raging performance bargains. The resale values are dropping due to the large number of hot rodded and abused cars hitting the market. If you find a good one, buy it!

oneduckstwo

Hey there. Just picked up a used (from dealer) 1 owner '02 wagon w/30000 miles and clear carfax. Seems like a great great car but I was wondering if anyone had any problems with a hesitation at about 2700-3000 rpms or so. I thought I saw a post about it somewhere but I was wondering if anyone knew the cause/fix. At first I thought it was some sort of "turbo lag" since this is my first turbo car...but it's definitely too severe. Definitely need to get this straightened out before warranty is up. Thanks.

volkov

Good of you all to respond, as info was very useful. I had assumed the wear and tear was an abuse issue, but worried that people with bona fide warranty problems might have been tarred with the same brush. Glad that's not the case. Funny thing is that some sources I found actually ranked the WRX as more reliable than the standard Impreza. Given they are liable to be driven much harder than the standard models that's even more reassuring.
Now all I need to do is decide if the limited time I will get to really enjoy and use the car for it's designed purpose will be worth the extra $$ and reduced space relative to the bigger wagons.
Don't lose respect for me ;-) but this started out as me buying a sensible car for distinct needs. Never even considered I could get a
big boy toy as well, so I wasn't prepared for it.

andmoon

oneduckstwo,
Ground the left and right strut towers to the intake manifold and the driver side tower to the neg. terminal. There are nuts on the manifold that look like they were designed for grounding use. Don't forget to use heavy guage wire.
I didn't think ground wires could make a diff. but I tried it and the hesitation is gone. I have heard the cause is electrical 'noise' in that range.
Don

oneduckstwo

That grounding fix seems too easy but I'll try it! Wouldn't Subaru have done something about that if it's such an easy fix? Do you know if it's a known problem? Also, does anyone know of a decent car cover for the wagon?

ateixeira

FWIW, the Single Point Ground was popular and seemed to work for a lot of people.

-juice

hypov

I'm still not clear on the grounding purpose.
These recommended/suggested grounding points, is it really grounding, or just adding additional distribution points to send charges through the chassis? The way I see the circuit, it is charging; so how would that reduce the "noise" spoken of?

-Dave

nine51

Don't count out the "regular" Impreza, the Outback Sport is also a great car. I had a 96 OBS before the WRX and drove it 126K trouble free miles. It still has the most of the good stuff of the WRX without the turbo engine and it's need for premium fuel. It's really a very practical car, specially if you live where it snows.

I have considered going back to an OBS just to save the $.20/gallon penalty I am paying for my fun, but so far I just can't bear to do it;) The WRX is still my daily driver.

volkov

Well, as I alluded to, this started out as a different search. I wanted AWD or Traction control FWD with dog space, 3 back seat headrests,3 shoulder belts and leather. Set up as the CR-V vs Jetta Wagon (nice in the 1.8T) vs Forester vs OBS. Ruled out OBS early for it's lack of leather and relatively small hatch area, but then...Hello, what's this? The showroom WRX in rally blue. Really only took it out for fun, but after the drive, I began to think I could live without leather and survive a smallish rear hatch if driving was that much fun. Couldn't make that compromise for the OBS - I even reconsidered and took it for a test drive. But to paraphrase the 1918 song, "How you gonna keep him down in the Outback, now that he's seen Rex's WEEEEEE!!! ?"
So now it's CR-V versus WRX. Practicality vs Excitement, left brain vs Right brain.

andmoon

volkov, Have you tried the forester xt?
More room, more usable power, less handling.
Don

nine51

You might want to wait for the next generation Legacy. You will be able to get leather in the 2.5 GT Limited or the Outback Limited, and a 2.5 liter turbo with 250 hp. Probably will be $30K, but it will be a very nice car, and have more room than the WRX/OBS. I sat in a 2005 Outback a the Chicago Auto Show, and it is NICE! Interior is Audi quality. Still waiting for Subaru to announce pricing and mpg numbers;<

dnestr

Nine is correct, the visual sensation is perfect. But, I admit, a Forester XT is more sporty, even with a 2,0 engine. The newer OB accelerates acceptable, but neither more or less than an ordinary car. Got a test drive a couple of weeks ago. Just my $0,02 worth.

prayerfor

Forester XT has a 2.5L dnestr.

Volkov you're a Forester XT buyer waiting to happen. Or for another $3-$5K, a Legacy GT Limited, with leather etc. (gotta wait til summer though for the 2005s with turbos).

Bottom line, if the WRX's space is a concern, then other fantastic options with more space and equal performance are right there in the Subaru store.

mluko

I love my new 2002 WRX Wagon- one problem, the stupid dealer apparently used some kind of perfumey freshening treatment on the interior. Smells like a perfume store! How can I get rid of it? Help!

locke2c

were they covering up cigarette smoke or something?

try fabreeze first...

~c

volkov

First, really pushed to replace vehicle this spring, making waiting for 'O5 unlikely. Outback was the first Subie ruled out, because the seat belt arrangement in the middle back seat made it essentially impossible to correctly secure a middle booster seat. I need room for 3 booster seats, and with triplet 5 year olds, I'll need it for 3 more years. Hilarious part is that the racerboy WRX has the most accomodating seatbelt spacing for any of the vehicles I considered. In the Outback I swear the middle seat latches are only 10" apart on the leather bench and not very mobile. The Forester is only slightly better.
The Forester XT is still a Forester. I loved the WRX as much for the handling as the acceleration, and given I live in a place with an abundance of snow and dirt roads, I'm going to be pushing the handling limits more often than the speed limits ;-). The OBS didn't feel close enough to the WRX, and the Forester is even farther off the mark in the body roll dept. Truth is, I think the low center of gravity and the suspension are the true standouts for this vehicle. I couldn't believe how sweet the WRX felt at speed on a winding dirt road. There are other pocket rockets that can compete with the WRX speed, but I've never ridden any vehicle that felt that good in those conditions. Guess that "rally heritage" thing isn't just marketing fluff!!
As to XT versus CR-V, the CR-V comes in a lot cheaper in full dress including leather and sun roof than the Forester, with comparable handling overall, and I'm basically cheap. Didn't get any difference from the Subie that would have me justify the extra $$.

dnestr

Unfortunately, Subaru of Russia doesn't give me a chance to get a 2,5XT. I guess a Forester with 210 HP is a real fast train. I'd die for the engine.

Also testing the OB, I noticed, the rear seats are not enough for a long-legged passenger. Such a behavior is acceptable for the Forester, but hardly admissible for the OB or Legacy.

ateixeira

Febreeze and baking soda. Vacuum up the baking soda the next day.

-juice

mluko

Never heard of febreeze- what is it? I'll try anything.

subearu

http://www.homemadesimple.com/febreze/usfebreze.shtml

-Brian

hunter001

As far the "low center of gravity" is concerned, I believe the difference in ground clearance between the WRX and the OBS is just 0.2" or so (6.3" for the OBS vs 6.1" for the WRX). In fact, the TS wagon (at 5.9" ground clearance) is lower than the WRX and thus in theory should have a lower CG.

I have an 04 OBS and would have definitely considered a TS wagon, since unlike the earlier years, the OBS and the TS wagon come with 4 wheel disc brakes. In the earlier years, they came with drums in the rear.

Later...AH

Sylvia

In the grocery store in the cleaning products aisle...around the air fresheners.

p0926

As to XT versus CR-V, the CR-V comes in a lot cheaper in full dress including leather and sun roof than the Forester, with comparable handling overall, and I'm basically cheap. Didn't get any difference from the Subie that would have me justify the extra $$.

You sure you're doing an apples to apples comparison? Comparably equipped, the N/A Forester and the CR-V should cost about the same. Yes the XT variant is more expensive but it'll blow the doors off the CR-V and really belongs in a different class. However, it sounds like you place a premium on handling in which case the WRX is the best choice.

-Frank P.

volkov

I was speaking in general about the feeling of driving the WRX, and what I thought contributed to it. As with all Subie's the low center of gravity is one of the reasons for their distinctive handling. I wasn't meaning that as distinguishing feature relative to Outback sport because I certainly couldn't tell the difference. It does feel different and higher in the Forester though. To me the handling issue between OBS and WRX is the suspension.

volkov

Part of it likely relates to subtle pricing diffs on both sides of the border. Prices from a broker I've used were C$ 32,720 for the CR-V EX with leather vs $36135 for Forester XS PP-2. MSRP up here are C$ 32,500+ 1240(frt,pdi blah,blah)for the CR-V and $36795 + 1495 for the FXS.
Equipment and further option costs are essentially identical- both have leather,auto, sun-roof, heated mirrors etc. The overall performance of the FXS was quite similar IMHO to the CR-V. With each showing a marginal advantage here or there. Are your prices closer?

mluko

I'm thinking of getting the 17 in Subaru wheels for my 2002 WRX wagon and using the original 16's for snow tires. I noticed that Subaru requires(?)the Bridgestone Potenzas be used with these wheels. Does anyone have these on their car? How's the ride and handling? Any other issues?

hypov

Where does it says that?
The only requirement for 17s on the wagon I know is that the tire be 215/45-17 size.

-Dave

bkaiser1

I've noticed on several websites and in brochures that Subaru lists a "suggested" Brigestone tire for the 17" wheels, but you are in no way obligated to use that tire. Do a search on tirerack.com or discounttiredirect.com to find useful reviews of tires for the WRX...there are several great choices depending on your needs.

Brian