Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

ctwrx1

First, I want to clarify that it was my idea to take a short cut to remedy the problem. A trip to a hardware store for another sized clip was the alternative. Granted, the correct hardware should have come with the kit. The look, quality and fit to the body contours made it easy to overlook the minor hardware fit shortcomings.
     The paint on the inside of my rear bumper was wearing away and I have a couple of gouges in my lower doors that mudflaps would probably have prevented. I put mudflaps on all of my cars and still can't understand why Subaru doesn't offer them for my WRX.
     And as I said, they look great!

merrycynic

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea too. I've already complained about ice accumulation in the wheel wells that prohibited the coil springs to function properly. Perhaps you could let us know if the mud flaps help at all in this regard. I just hate when things don't fit right, and in this case we're talking about something that has a very specific application. There really is no excuse for wrong parts/improper fit. Any way, perhaps a photo might convince me that the inconvience might be worth it?

redscooby

ctwrx1 - Wish I had thought of trimming the wheel well lining. That would have been better than my solution which was to use a self tapping screw. It worked though!! (We had snow forecast for the day after I fitted them, so I was anxious to finish the job).

merrycinic - I was frustrated to say the least by the time I was done. Having said that, they are excellent quality, look great, and help to keep some of the crap off the sides of the car. It didn't help much with snow build-up in the wheel wells though. Spraying the mudflap and wheel well liner (when dry) with silicon spray sure helped though!! Here's a couple of pics:

http://members.cox.net/redscooby/Car/103_0398_1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/redscooby/Car/103_0396_1.jpg

-Chris

znalg

I could really use some input from folks who have informed opinions. I was about to put deposit on an '04 WRX wagon a few weeks ago when I got deterred by the stories of brake failures and the NHTSA investigation. Since then, I've been checking out every car under the sun and find everything else in my price range boring or inadequate for my needs. I need to know: How real is this alleged ABS problem?? How widespread is it? Were there just a handful of cases that might simply not be Subaru's fault or, were the reported cases perhaps the tip of an iceberg? I already had what seems like a similar ABS problem which resulted in 3 near total brake failures on a '97 Toyota 4Runner and won't knowingly risk that again. Please, if anybody has good information or advice on this subject, I would really appreciate it.
Thanks very much,

Rob

saintviper

I have never heard of a report of a brake failure with the WRX.

There is a common misconception that the ABS system is flawed though. I've tried quite a few cars with ABS systems in the snow. In almost every one, the ABS system is designed to stop the car as quickly as possible. This is of course what they should do except that in most cases, the car reacts poorly to steering input while the ABS in engaged. Most cars stop quickly, but plow strait ahead even when you turn the wheel with the ABS engaged.

In perfect conditions, this would be fine as the stopping distance would tend to be fairly short. But say you are trying to stop on a icy/snowy road, or off road from say 60mph. Even with ABS, it would take a long time to stop. In this case, being able to steer the car might be more important that getting the absolute shortest stopping distance.

The WRX ABS system emphasises steering control rather than absolute minimum stopping distance. When the ABS system in the WRX kicks in, you still have fairly good ability to steer the car. The drawback though is that in some conditions, the ABS is not as effective at stopping the car as many people expect. This can be a bit unnerving if you aren't prepared for it, and many people complain that there is a problem with the brakes. The truth is, that the WRX ABS system is simply 'tuned' a bit different than what most people are used to.

hypov

from my experience, the function of the ABS is up to specs and has not failed to deploy properly. I believe that most, if not all, of the compliants were result of being unfamiliar with the vehicle and driving at enthusiastic speed and beyond for the conditions when brakes were applied, and those jumping on the "the sky is falling" band wagon.

If you drive and not alot the needed buffer distance to stop for your speed; hell, any braking episode will appear like there isn't any brakes when the ABS comes on.

However, you would indeed experience some trigger happy activation of the ABS when braking in situation(s) like going over bumps and sometimes on decent to smooth roads. This is, my opinion and personal observation, because of the brakes overpowering the tires it rides on. The RE92s are decent tires but it seems to lack in the grip/friction department to balance off the brake's grip and it is certainly not for driving enthusiastically and beyond. I have since swapped the OEM tires to the Dunlops SP5000s and have since experienced less trigger happy ABS activations.

-Dave

ateixeira

Just get used to it, maybe practice in a wet/snowy parking lot.

Most folks here are not affected, but if yours is for whatever reason (Murphy's Law), you can pull the ABS fuse, FWIW.

-juice

merrycynic

Thanks for the pictures, they do look nice!

merrycynic

I think I noticed this phenomenon once for a split micro second. Then again I am really unsure that it happened at all! I do think Subaru made a big mistake by not using the 4 pot front, 2 pot rear brakes that they offer in other parts of the world. I'd also imagine that the 17" wheels offered elsewhere might offer more surface patch for braking. While the braking is good, IMHO it's not up to the rest of the car and knowing that there is an appropriate replacement parts up and ready and available elsewhere is frustrating.

jim_loves_cars

on choppy NJ roads. I think the problem occurs when braking with a moderate to hard amount of force while traveling over a bump. I think it's something that can afflict all ABS systems, but is more pronounced on tightly-sprung vehicles like the WRX.

At any rate, I was aware of the potential for this problem when I bought the car but have never had it happen on my '04 WRX wagon after 13,000 miles, stop-and-go, on rotten roads.

Not to say it couldn't happen, but being aware of what triggers the problem has allowed me to avoid it so far. Meanwhile I'm having a blast with car and am looking forward to playing with my snow tires the next couple of days.

-Jim

cptplt

having experienced this many times on my WRX, usually in the exact same place on a particular road, I have come to the conclusion that while the ABS in the WRX may indeed be a little different, perhaps more sensitive than others, one factor may be that when you hit that bump, the suspension is such that you bounce in your seat and your foot actually comes off the pedal just a fraction, enough to reduce braking but not enough to have come off the pedal sufficiently for it to think you are not on the pedal and reset the system, and the whole weird sensation of no braking ceases.

If you are not prepared for it, it really could be scary. Now, I know it happens esp over certain road surfaces and it doesn't take any time to come off the brake completely a split second and overcome the problem. I could see how someone not used to it could freak out and maybe even panic and crash into something in front of them.My wife who drives the WRX maybe once every few months almost did that.

Different tires do help but does not completely eliminate the problem. I have had the stock RE92s, 17in S03s and 16in LM22s and they all do it, the Re92 may be worse (but then I haven;t used those for quite a while now either) so its not a real scientific comparison.

Like I said, perhaps on another topic board, all my vehicles do this strange effect of losing some braking going over a bump, though the WRX is the worst. Which goes back again to those on the nabisco board who feel its a suspension problem per se rather than the actual ABS.

nixomose

I don't normally drive that fast, almost never do, but it was a long drive. I've never had a turbo before so maybe it's normal. I dunno. It certainly wasn't spinning up, it was already spinning at that point. I don't do 0-100 in 12 seconds or whatever it is that car can do, just on the long stretches, I pick it up a bit. Oh well, the car hasn't fallen apart yet.

As for brakes, I've been moaning about the brakes on my wrx since day 2. The ABS is oversensitive in my opinion, the slightest bit of braking over a bump will cause it to kick on. It's not wrong it just is.

I still have issue with the idea of ABS on an AWD car in the first place. Nobody's come up with an explation pro or con good enough to satisfy me, but it still seems to me that since all four wheels are connects to some degree at all times, abs on one tire will adversly affect braking on the other tires. I haven't found my wrc to stop all that well. then again I'm old now and don't drive nearly as enthusiastically as I used to.

And I also (and this must just be me) have this problem with my front rotors, they are all messed up. Car shimmys like mad when I brake and you can see cuts all over the rotors, both of them. I'm going to fix it when it gets warmer out but for now it just sucks.

andmoon

My problem with the abs isn't how it triggers but that it remains on for far too long even in dry smooth pavement. I don't think the wheel that triggered the abs is bouncing (losing/gaining/losing traction) for that long. It feels like the abs takes too long to realize that the tire has regained traction.
Don

ppek

I think the big issue is reports that the abs kicks on and really extends stopping distance (which it's designed to do)BUT it happens in situations where you would not think abs would kick on.

I have a 2002 and experienced it twice in the first 6 months I owned the car. Both times were at very slow speeds (<10 mph) and both times kicked on while going over a bump. While I know big bumps can give the abs the impression that a wheel is slipping, these were very small bumps that I feel should not have caused such a thing to happen.

The last year and a half, it has been perfect and I'm just chaulking it up to an isolated issue.

I love my WRX, it's the best car I have ever owned.

Take care, Paul

hypov

Don-
my theory on that is the tires did not offer any resistance/friction to counter the brake force, hence the wheels will lock up sooner. When the ABS sense the lockup, it will release and reapply only to lock the wheels again. Since the tires don't have the desired grip to work with the brakes, the locked wheels will continue to be released with no or little momemtum reduction. The ABS will deactivate when it senses reduction of speed or wheels no longer lock. If the ABS keeps releasing the locked wheels and the tires aren't helping, there isn't going to be any major momemtum change.

Anyway, the ABS is fine. I just think the tires are providing the excitement

-Dave

znalg

Thank you everyone for your comments and thoughts. Has anyone had the problem which I believe NHTSA is investigating where there is reportedly no braking even after completely releasing and then stepping down hard on the the brakes -on a smooth surface? This is what I had in my 4Runner. Frightening indeed. Also, is there any indication of an improvement in the problem by the '04 model year? And, if the problem is suspension or tire based, might the Forester be more immune to it? Thanks very much.

hypov

Has anyone had the problem which I believe NHTSA is investigating where there is reportedly no braking even after completely releasing and then stepping down hard on the the brakes -on a smooth surface?

Nope, not that I know of.

Brake fade and low brake fluid do have similar symptom.

Also, seating farther back than you should can create such symptom too. Leg fully extended on the brake paddle can simulate it being depressed firmly and perceived to be pushed to the floor whilst there's actually another 1/2-1" of play.

-Dave

twrx

I put 30,000 on my 2002 WRX wagon. I had absolutely no ABS problems. However due to incompetence on the part of my local dealer I ended up trading it in on a 2003. (Dealer ruined engine, clutch and tranny by incompetent service.) SOA stepped in and I now have a 2003 sedan. Also no problem on ABS after 6000 miles. In fact we just had ice and snow within the last 48 hours and I have "tested" the ABS quite a bit.

redscooby

I have 7500 miles on my '03 wagon and no brake problems at all.

andmoon

Znalg
I have not experienced a 'failure' but comparing it to other cars, the abs on my wrx sometimes kicks in at times it should not and stays on way too long (I have 14K on mine and have had my heart stopped 3 times due to abs not releasing). If the abs trigger was constant, it could be looked at as a trait but it's random and in my opinion, a fault.
Having said that, I like my wrx and would buy another.
Don

merrycynic

Interesting that the EVO with bigger brakes and wider tires seems to have edged out the STi in braking comparisons.

bluesubie

Over certain bumps, my pedal would go down a little farther that I liked. All it took was a quick lift and reapplication of the pedal. I never had a close call or anything.

The ABS might be sensitive, but a lot of it is in the driving. The pedal doesn't go down as far on the XT during ABS action. Maybe the EBD helps a little.

nixomose - AWD is for going and ABS is for stopping. :-) IMHO, that why ABS is on an AWD car.

-Dennis

nixomose

So the other day I was shoveling snow and I pushed in the side mirror so it didn't stuck out that I might acccidently bump in to it. No big deal, it clicks into the snug-to-the-car position and clicks right back out.
I'm driving home from work yesterday and the whole thing is shaking.
I get out to take a look at it, and it seems that whatever keeps the mirror pressed down hard against the ball bearings it rolls on for the swivel action isn't working anymore.

it just blows in the wind now.
I tried to lift it off to see if there was some latch or bolt I could adjust or something, and while the whole think slides up like an inch or so, it doesn't come off. I can't tell where the wiring for the electric motors for the mirror run so I assume it's through that post and maybe that's why I can't get it off. I'm not going to yank it off or anything, lest I break it worse.

So... without wasting a lot of time at the dealer (should be under warantee though, no?) anybody know how this mechanism works so I don't have to pay $400 for the shop manual?

Has this happened to anybody else?
First the bad strut and now this. I can see lots of little stupid things breaking on this car.

msdannyj

I have a 03 WRX wagon. I am getting sick of stock speakers. I am planning to upgrade to infinity or Polk speakers...any suggestions and does anyone have the speaker size to look for in the front and back? Thanks

kevin111

Do you have the base speaker system or the upgraded speaker system?

bluesubie

Yeah, that should be covered under the b to b.

-Dennis

npaladin2000

Well, I finally got to the point where I checked insurance rates with my carrier, just to make sure I can actually afford to INSURE my WRX that I intend to buy anyway. Unfortunately, it seems REALLY high. Any of you guys in NY State care to share what you're paying per year to insure your WRX? (With comp/coll...I have to get a loan to buy it). I just want to find out if this number ($2000/year) I'm staring at is common, or just that my insurance company doesn't like WRXs (This number's way higher than a VW GTI turbo with the same company, which just doesn't seem right to me).

znalg

I got quoted $2,200/year in NYC for the WRX wagon. I have an almost perfectly clean license with no accidents or claims history.

hypov

that's just about what I'm paying.

-Dave

npaladin2000

Wow, I guess it really IS that expensive. Damn...it figures though. A reasonably priced, safe, good in snow sports car; the insurance companies must have decided that the whole deal needed a catch, and promptly provided one.

hypov

Hee hee I thought its cheap comparing to ALLSTATE, PRUDENTIAL and another [can't remember] which quoted me $4000~6000/yr. =8'o

-Dave

kevin111

Then you will feel a whole lot better. For me they wanted to charge an extra $600 a year for the RSX-S vs. the WRX.

How old are you guys? $2000+ per year for a clean license seems exceedingly high! Maybe it is NY vs. California?

Also curious how the WRX compares to the Mazda6, 350Z, and RX8 since these cars are cross-shopped. Finally, the ultimate Cop catcher, the Mustang GT.

kevin111

Have you tried:
American Express
Liberty Mutual (least expensive that I have found)
AIG
AAA?

bluesubie

NJ, 37, married, full coverage on a WRX wagon and 99 OB.

Insurance dropped a little when I got the XT, and another $20 per month with LoJack. I called Liberty Mutual 4 years ago and they couldn't match my rates. Neither could my next door neighbor that's an insurance salesman. :-)

Get on the phone and call at least a dozen company's direct.

-Dennis

hypov

NY, 43, single, full coverage on the 03 WRX wagon and 99 OBS.
Both vehicles are listed for pleasure use.
I'm the primary driver on the WRX and Mom [Sr. Citizen] on the OBS.

Also, I lost my 5 yrs good drivng benefit when I stained it Oct 6th 2002.

-Dave

bkaiser1

Make sure you check around to as many places as you can, either on the internet or via phone. I've found that rates vary wildly from carrier to carrier for the same coverage.

After AMEX raised my annual premium last month out of the blue, I began shopping around for lower quotes on my 04 WRX wagon and still, no one could match AMEX's rates. My current annual premium is $1100 for 100k/300k coverage and a clean driving record -- I got several quotes for DOUBLE that, as high as $2500/yr for the same coverage.

If you're a Costco member, it's worth checking out AMEX (via Costco's website) for their rates.

Brian

ateixeira

Costco/AMEX is great. We have a Forester L, Legacy L, and a Miata, and it's $1942 per year for all 3 cars, two drivers both age 35. And both of us commute.

-juice (in MD)

bkaiser1

After 6 months and 13k miles with my 04 wagon, I've never warmed up to the new style seats in the car. While I think the fundamental problem for me is the lack of a TILT on adjustment on the bottom cushion (a trait shared with the 02/03 seats), I also think that the previous style seats in the WRX were more comfortable for me...at least on the short drives I took in an 03 model.

So, rather than get rid of an essentially new car that I really enjoy, I bought some 2003 WRX front seats on the "other" site and will pick them up this weekend! It's a gamble that these seats will alleviate my back and leg pain, but it's certainly worth $300 for me to find out. Sure, the front and rear seat fabric will be different, but if the seats are as comfortable on long trips as I think they are, then it will be worth it to me.

Here's to hoping for a smooth removal and install!

Brian

ateixeira

Cool. Take pics of the seat track, please. A lot of people ask about those. I'll host 'em for ya if you want.

-juice

bluesubie

Those are great seats. That's the thing I miss the most about my WRX.

-Dennis

npaladin2000

Wow, $1200 per year is fantastic. I had a little chat with my mother (she sells insurance, you see) and it seems that there's a sort of "base rating" that each state gives a model of car, based on accident and theft rate, which may explain wide variances in rates from state to state (bluesubie, maybe you can verify that with your neighbor?)

Definitely have to check out AMEX to find out if their rate for NY is as low as that... even if it's higher than $1200, it might not be as high as these others (I'm not a costco member though). And I DO have a clean license, and a clean record, with only one claim in my entire insured history (and that was some no-fault from when I got rear-ended). Never even had so much as a speeding ticket (heh, like THAT'S going to stay that way after getting a WRX, right?).

I'm thinking I may try to buy a used 2002 off of lease at the end of this year if I can though... should lower the rate, and other than the front fascia and EBD, I didn't hear about any major changes. And according to Edmunds TMV, it should be about $5000 cheaper... assuming one can find one, anyway.

I have to find the guy in my building at work who owns the Sonic Yellow WRX and find out what he's paying. (Would you believe I saw 2 of them around here driving along the main drag at the same time? I thought the Yellow was a limited run?)

kevin111: I'm 28, single, with such a short drive to work I've got my policy listed as going 5000 miles per year. My current insurance company (the one I got the $2000 figure from) is NY Central Mutual. And I figure the RSX might have had a boost because I KNOW Hondas and Acuras attract thieves like magnets... at least they do around here.

ppek

I pay $1,008 per year for my 2002 WRX. I live in Michigan, have a clean record, and I am 34.

Paul

twrx

I have nothing but good things to say about the seats in my 2002 and 2003 WRX's. I have a bad back and am somewhat overweight. Six ft. tall 260 lbs. The seats are snug due to my weight but that has not caused me discomfort on all day 400 mile drives. The only discomfort for me came when I left the height elevated after my wife had driven the car. I use the seat as low to the floor as possible. When I got my 2003 I test drove a 2004 premium package sedan (caution if you are 6' tall you won't fit under the sunroof) and my initial impression of the new seats was not good and that was just about 5 miles of driving.

I had been paying $700 per year on my 2002 WRX wagon, the same as I had on my '98 Forester. The premium went up to $950 per year as a result of increasing liability to $250,000 as a requirement for my $1,000,000 umbrella policy and due to a higher rate on the 2003 WRX sedan. Guess life in Indiana as a 51 yr. old is not too bad.

TWRX

socprofinblrex

A) 2002 WRX Impreza wagon -> $93.72 mo. -> $1124.64 yr.
2000 Impreza Wagon -> $102.08 mo. -> $1224.96 yr.

I'm 41 (drive WRX and live in city; 19,000 miles per year); wife is 41 (drives Impreza wagon about 13,000 per year). HER insurance is HIGHER! But combined under one policy totals are:

$195.80 mo -> $2349.60 yr.

State Farm Insurance

Thomas in Mpls

mikenk

Sure a lot of disparity. Maybe the difference is in the collision deductibles.

My rates are $860 for my 2002 WRX wagon and $790 for wife's 2001 OB VDC in Dallas suburb, 250/500k liability, $500 collision deductible, State Farm.

I am 62; wife 60 - in some cases old is good.

redscooby

You guys are making me feel good. I only pay $776 per year for my '03 WRX wagon (age 36, clean record, using Travelers through AAA). This is with a home/auto combo discount and a $500 deductible. Maybe it's because I live in Nebraska!!

-Chris

mikenk

They have cars in Nebraska?

redscooby

And cable TV.

paisan

in NYC is pretty cheap. There are 20Million people in the tristate area, most with 1 car at least..... It's a decent price.

-mike

celica115

Geico gives me the best offer so far. The others quote me $2,200 + / year. My 04 Civic has the same deal. I was thinking that all Subaru has higher insurance rate because of 4WD until I got my Civic. Not bad, the rate is much cheaper than other SUV's.

Luk