'whistle' might be a better description. took to a dealer who said it was normal (he rode with me) but then i asked to drive a demo and i didnt hear it there. am getting it looked at next week. the previous owner double clutched (actually heel-toe) if that helps to diagnose...
Ok, excuse me if I get a little carried away on this topic but IMHO, there is no greater source of mis-information out there than when the discussion turns to use of synthetic oils.
Using a good synthetic like Mobil 1 will not hurt your engine in any way and is one of the best ways to protect your high-performance turbo investment. I put Mobil 1 in our WRX wagon after 640 miles (yes, you read that correctly), and after 11.5K miles on the odo, the engine drives beautifully, has very little vibration at idle, and is using almost no oil between changes-- which shows the rings have seated themselves nicely. The often quoted notion of waiting 8-10,000 mi. to switch to synthetic is simply not true anymore with today's close manufacturing tolerances on new engines.
Synthetic oil is far superior to dino, mainly because it has no wax or other natural contaminants that are always found in regular (read cheap) conventional oils. These contaminants gum up your engine and create deposits that will lead to an engine and turbo re-build much sooner than if you use synthetic. If you just bought your WRX, the first order of business should be getting that crappy conventional oil out of your engine after the first one thousand miles or so. I kid you not. Your engine will last much, much longer with the synthetic and your turbo will be much less susceptible to coking after a hard run.
Other advantages of using a good synthetic:
1) You can legitimately go twice as long before changing the oil and filter. This means if you change 4X a year or every 3000 mi., with synthetic you can change 2X a year or 6000 mi. and not hurt your engine one iota.
2) You will get 3-4 extra horsepower from the WRX engine. OK, that doesn't sound like much but every bit helps, especially in summer when you have the A/C going.
3) You will get about 1 percent better gas mileage throughout the year.
4) With the savings in fewer oil filters, better gas mileage, and going twice as long between engine rebuilds, using the synthetic is actually cheaper to use in the long run (assuming you keep your car a good 7-10 years) than using the conventional oil.
Finally, if you change the synthetic oil yourself (which is good practice to make sure you are getting the real McCoy) your nominal up-front cost will be little more than if you take it to the dealer or a quick-lube place for a conventional oil change, and you will have peace of mind that you are performing the single best service you can do for your Rex engine.
After a lot of web research I can agree fully with rexaroo. The only choices are which synthetic and filter to use and how often to change. There appear to be a couple of "better" synthetics on the market but they cost twice as much and they are not readily available like Mobil 1 (avoid Quaker State "synthetic"). Filters are also an interesting topic and I've found that Pure 1 filters are equal to Subies and can be purchased at Advance Auto etc for around $5.00. My Rex has 22,000 miles, uses no oil and has had regular changes (4000mi.) since 1100 miles. I'm a little OCD and changing it myself gives me a chance to wipe down the underside !
the only thing I would caution is that every camshaft manufacturer still advises not to use synthetic during cam break-in, it's too slippery for proper wear patterns to form.
or has no one else besides me swapped cams in the last decade? ;-)
640 miles is enough, not to mention I'm sure that engine was run-in on the assembly line. heck, an hour of running time is enough.
after the 1000 mile break-in always seemed the ideal time to do it, and that's what the Subie rep at SoA advised when I called the 800 hotline. But the Mobil guys I talked to said, naw, go ahead and make the change, so that's how mine got changed at 640 mi. Turns out the Mobil guys were right and the engine is just fine. However, waiting until after the 1K mi. break-in can't hurt anything and would probably give most owners the best peace of mind.
snead_c--thanks for the tip on the Pure 1. I'll check it out. Bosch also makes an excellent filter for the WRX and I'm hoping to see the Mobil One synthetic filter become available for the Rex. Last I heard, they only make one for the Outback 6-cyl.
Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can offer the advantages of:
Better low-temperature performance. Better lubrication at high engine-operating temperatures. Better wear protection, especially during start-up. Long-term wear protection. Outstanding protection from deposits and sludge.
Simply put, synthetic oil will provide superior protection in extreme conditions, and extend engine life. Whether or not the improvement over conventional oil is meaningful for vehicles driven in typical environments is debatable. The other benefits rexaroo alleges, however, seem pretty unlikely, IMHO. Seems to me that if their product could lead to higher horsepower, better fuel efficiency, and cost savings, the Mobil folks would mention it.
Under the heading, "Myths about Synthetics", they have this to say: Myth: You don't have to change the oil as often when using Mobil 1. Reality: While Mobil 1 has given excellent results in extended oil drain tests, ExxonMobil prefers to remain conservative with oil drain recommendations. ExxonMobil engineers recommend that you can go all the way to the maximum mileage or time frame shown in your owner's manual for oil changes when using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™.
Myth: Mobil 1 requires a special oil filter. Reality: While ExxonMobil recommends that you use a high-quality filter, you can use the same type of oil filter that you would normally use with conventional oil.
there are two reasons Mobil won't espouse them, besides the cynical capitalist view that they'll sell less oil.
1. frequent short trips. if the oil doesn't reach a self-cleaning temperature somewhere over 180 degrees, water and other contaminants will break it down and reduce the lubricative and rust-proofing properties. this happens *faster* to mineral oil than synthetics, but most definitely affect both.
2. oil filter life. after 10,000 normal miles (without repeated short trips) Mobil1 and other quality full synthetics are probably chemically fine. however, the filter is in need of replacement. most vehicles do not have a way in which you can change the filter easily without loosing an indeterminant amount of oil, so generally you change the oil everytime you change the filter.
It would seem the fuel filter life would limit how far you could stretch the synthetic oil mileage envelope between changes. Mobil has conducted a lot of private tests on their synthetic, some of which they have made public, such as the famous million mile test, where they drove a new Beemer 1 million miles with synthetic, and when they took the engine apart, it was still within new car specs. On that test, they used 5W-30 and changed the oil and filter every 7500 mi., so it would seem 10,000 miles would be quite possible with synthetic.
IMO, the reason Mobil doesn't advertise the very slight gains in horsepower and fuel efficiency is because it would open up a legal can of worms with people saying they didn't see the gains when they switched. A jump from 227 to 230 hp simply can't be detected by your average driver in day to day driving. Heck, you'd even be hard pressed to get that to show up on a dynamometer test. The reason engineers know the gains are there is because they found you get about an 8 horsepower gain with a 500 hp. engine, a figure that can be accurately measured in the laboratory. Also, with fuel mileage, if you're getting 20 mpg, a 1% gain in fuel mileage translates to 20.2 mpg under ideal driving conditions. Most of us would never know the difference because daily driving has too many variables for the difference to consistently show up.
Another reason not to advertise HP gains is that many engines attempt to adapt to your driving style. Sport Compact Car has done dyno tests on WRX's after driving them in different manners for extended periods of time. They noticed significant differences in max hp (+-10%) between cars that had been driven differently before the tests. These differences far outweigh any benefits you would get from synthetic oil (not to mention many other bolt on mods such as high flow air filters etc...).
in my case the strongest argument I could see for changingto Mobil 1 as I did at 3K is that the WRX engine gets pretty hot under the hood, some cheap dino oil can coke at even relatively low temps, you won't see that with synthetics or some better dinos.
and exceeds the latest SL specs set by the SAE. The previous version was called Tri-Syn and was designed to meet the older SJ specifications.
Putting synthetic into an older car like the 90k Honda Civic seems to me a tough call. At that high mileage, a lot of engine wear that you're trying to prevent has already taken place, and like bluesubie pointed out, the synthetic can start loosening up deposits around gaskets and seals caused by years of conventional oil use, and you could end up having some oil leaks. If you've always changed your oil religiously at 3000 mi. and have no present oil leaks, you might give it a try using the 10W30 synthetic that Mobil recommends for high mileage vehicles.
I have a Subie cargo liner and a cargo divider (sold by Subaru). The price is FREE. I want to get it out of my garage. Just pay the shipping or you can pick it up if you like. I currently have these items in my NE PA home. I also can bring them to my Long Island house if you live around there. Just reply to my email address under my profile.
Thanks for the info everybody. I agree that switching to synthetic is definitely a good thing for a car such as the WRX, but my question is this - at my 10k mile oil change, is it too late to switch to synthetic? If so, will the OEM filter be OK?
Yes you read it right. I drove from Evansville to Indianapolis and back yesterday to attend the Colts game and averaged 30 mpg for the round trip. Not bad when my highway mileage the first 3000 miles struggled to get to 24 and my city was about 17. I now have 22k on my 2002 5 speed wrx wagon. Who would have thought it would take 20 k to break in a car? BTW, US 41 I averaged 60 mph and on I 70 70 mph. Best mileage on my '98 Forester here in the midwest was only 28. I did get 30 to 32 on it in thin air in Colorado in 2000 when I had 35 k on it. Gotta get to Colorado in the WRX one of these days.
It's nice to know the WRX improves with age....I just took a roadie in my 5sp wagon (10k miles on the odo) from NC to Evansville and averaged 27 mpg. Can't complain a bit!
Where in PA? I'm gonna be in the Poconos tonight/tomorrow and could pick them up and give them out as a prize for the 48hrs of Tri-state Benefit drive we are doing. We are also having a kickoff dinner on Thurs in LI if you will be around. http://isuzu-suvs.com/events/48hrs-2
mike- the cargo tray/liner etc. are now a Dave's [djasonw] place in L.I. and... I've got dibs on them I'll be picking them up this week, lastest this weekend.
I just read your post about the passive alarm from 12/14 so I don't know if this has been addressed. The dealer tried that with me; I inquired about adding the security upgrade weeks after I had placed my order. For $300 he was willing to "upgrade" me from the Subaru alarm to a passive alarm. I had a sudden slimy feeling.
I asked around i-club and apparently the Subie alarm can be made passive by connecting two wires together that can be found inside the driver's door -- I was told it's documented in the owner's manual, but I didn't get the upgrade so I don't know if there is a separate manual for the alarm.
I suppose it's fair to charge MSRP for a DIO, but I didn't like how he implied they would install a different alarm system.
Caroline- I knew it wasn't a separate unit. What transpired between the finance guy and me thereafter... I'll leave that as between him and me. MHO, the passive is not worth it. You got to first lock the doors in order for the passive to work [in one minute]. Duh, I might as well active arm. The Clifford I had with the '98 OB and '99 OBS will arm and lock the doors in 25sec. [no locking of doors first needed].
I'll be "upgrading" my alarm system to an aftermarket soon.
The STi will be introduced at the Detroit auto show on the 6th. Estimates are arrival for summertime. Check out http://impreza.subaru.com anytime after 5 PM.
Those owning the bug eyed WRXs need not be disappointed by the introduction of the new but bland headlamps. Trust me the round eyed WRXs will become collector's cars in the years to come. I just love my 2002 WRX!
Anyone seeing indiciation of good deals on the "classic" bug eyes as the 04s begin knocking on the door?
Personally I like the round headlights better from the pics. An improved interior on the 04 is of interest to me. It appears the 04s have the M3 inspired "pommel" on the front driver's seat and slightly improved interior bits.
There are some good pictures of the revised look on page 32 of the Feb issue of Sport Compact Car. Personally, I think they did an outstanding job, --it looks more contemporary and racy than the present design, although gotta say it's not enough to make me want to part with my loveable "bug-eyed" Rex any time soon.
Um, yeah. 2.5L. as in, why bother trying to make big power with only 2.0L when the rallying rules don't care what the production engine's displacement is?
(for WRC that is... but who cares about Group N anyway?)
You won't have to hold your breath for a 2.5 turbo, it's already here... Well, it's almost here... Check out the Edmund's review of the Detriot auto show to see the specs for the STi
My sentiments exactly! I don't know if I'd want to marry one (unless there was a spoiler delete option... functional or not, it's OOOOGLY!) but it'd make for one heck of an exciting fling. Did anyone really dare to hope that our STi would be MORE powerful than the JDM version? It boggles the mind.
Comments
Using a good synthetic like Mobil 1 will not hurt your engine in any way and is one of the best ways to protect your high-performance turbo investment. I put Mobil 1 in our WRX wagon after 640 miles (yes, you read that correctly), and after 11.5K miles on the odo, the engine drives beautifully, has very little vibration at idle, and is using almost no oil between changes-- which shows the rings have seated themselves nicely. The often quoted notion of waiting 8-10,000 mi. to switch to synthetic is simply not true anymore with today's close manufacturing tolerances on new engines.
Synthetic oil is far superior to dino, mainly because it has no wax or other natural contaminants that are always found in regular (read cheap) conventional oils. These contaminants
gum up your engine and create deposits that will lead to an engine and turbo re-build much sooner than if you use synthetic. If you just bought your WRX, the first order of business should be getting that crappy conventional oil out of your engine after the first one thousand miles or so. I kid you not. Your engine will last much, much longer with the synthetic and your turbo will be much less susceptible to coking after a hard run.
Other advantages of using a good synthetic:
1) You can legitimately go twice as long before changing the oil and filter. This means if you change 4X a year or every 3000 mi., with synthetic you can change 2X a year or 6000 mi. and not hurt your engine one iota.
2) You will get 3-4 extra horsepower from the WRX engine. OK, that doesn't sound like much but every bit helps, especially in summer when you have the A/C going.
3) You will get about 1 percent better gas mileage throughout the year.
4) With the savings in fewer oil filters, better gas mileage, and going twice as long between engine rebuilds, using the synthetic is actually
cheaper to use in the long run (assuming you keep your car a good 7-10 years) than using the conventional oil.
Finally, if you change the synthetic oil yourself (which is good practice to make sure you are getting the real McCoy) your nominal up-front cost will be little more than if you take it to the dealer or a quick-lube place for a conventional oil change, and you will have peace of mind that you are performing the single best service you can do for your Rex engine.
My Rex has 22,000 miles, uses no oil and has had regular changes (4000mi.) since 1100 miles. I'm a little OCD and changing it myself gives me a chance to wipe down the underside !
or has no one else besides me swapped cams in the last decade? ;-)
640 miles is enough, not to mention I'm sure that engine was run-in on the assembly line. heck, an hour of running time is enough.
-Colin
snead_c--thanks for the tip on the Pure 1. I'll check it out. Bosch also makes an excellent filter for the WRX and I'm hoping to see the Mobil One synthetic filter become available for the Rex. Last I heard, they only make one for the Outback 6-cyl.
Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ can offer the advantages of:
Better low-temperature performance.
Better lubrication at high engine-operating temperatures.
Better wear protection, especially during start-up.
Long-term wear protection.
Outstanding protection from deposits and sludge.
Simply put, synthetic oil will provide superior protection in extreme conditions, and extend engine life. Whether or not the improvement over conventional oil is meaningful for vehicles driven in typical environments is debatable. The other benefits rexaroo alleges, however, seem pretty unlikely, IMHO. Seems to me that if their product could lead to higher horsepower, better fuel efficiency, and cost savings, the Mobil folks would mention it.
Under the heading, "Myths about Synthetics", they have this to say:
Myth: You don't have to change the oil as often when using Mobil 1.
Reality: While Mobil 1 has given excellent results in extended oil drain tests, ExxonMobil prefers to remain conservative with oil drain recommendations. ExxonMobil engineers recommend that you can go all the way to the maximum mileage or time frame shown in your owner's manual for oil changes when using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™.
Myth: Mobil 1 requires a special oil filter.
Reality: While ExxonMobil recommends that you use a high-quality filter, you can use the same type of oil filter that you would normally use with conventional oil.
So much for clearing up misinformation...
1. frequent short trips. if the oil doesn't reach a self-cleaning temperature somewhere over 180 degrees, water and other contaminants will break it down and reduce the lubricative and rust-proofing properties. this happens *faster* to mineral oil than synthetics, but most definitely affect both.
2. oil filter life. after 10,000 normal miles (without repeated short trips) Mobil1 and other quality full synthetics are probably chemically fine. however, the filter is in need of replacement. most vehicles do not have a way in which you can change the filter easily without loosing an indeterminant amount of oil, so generally you change the oil everytime you change the filter.
-Colin
computer guy at an energy company
Mobil has conducted a lot of private tests on their synthetic, some of which they have made public, such as the famous million mile test, where they drove a new Beemer 1 million miles with synthetic, and when they took the engine apart, it was still within new car specs. On that test, they used 5W-30 and changed the oil and filter every 7500 mi., so it would seem 10,000 miles would be quite possible with synthetic.
IMO, the reason Mobil doesn't advertise the very slight gains in horsepower and fuel efficiency is because it would open up a legal can of worms with people saying they didn't see the gains when they switched. A jump from 227 to 230 hp simply can't be detected by your average driver in day to day driving. Heck, you'd even be hard pressed to get that to show up on a dynamometer test. The reason engineers know the gains are there is because they found you get about an 8 horsepower gain with a 500 hp. engine, a figure that can be accurately measured in the laboratory.
Also, with fuel mileage, if you're getting 20 mpg, a 1% gain in fuel mileage translates to 20.2 mpg under ideal driving conditions. Most of us would never know the difference because daily driving has too many variables for the difference to consistently show up.
-dennis
Thanks for the great synthetic oil info. When I get my WRX (or whatever my wife and I decide on) I'll be sure to get Mobil 1 in it right away.
Somewhat off topic but... I've got a Honda Civic with nearly 90k on it. Would it be OK to put synthetic in it now?
Thanks,
-Ian
-Dave
Inquiring minds want to know!
Putting synthetic into an older car like the 90k
Honda Civic seems to me a tough call. At that high mileage, a lot of engine wear that you're trying to prevent has already taken place, and like bluesubie pointed out, the synthetic can start loosening up deposits around gaskets and seals caused by years of conventional oil use, and you could end up having some oil leaks. If you've always changed your oil religiously at 3000 mi. and have no present oil leaks, you might give it a try using the 10W30 synthetic that Mobil recommends for high mileage vehicles.
the flash and coking points do not compare.
-Colin
How much can I pay??
Any suggestions? Your opinions and advices will be very appreciated
-Dennis
TWRX
-Dennis
-mike
the cargo tray/liner etc. are now a Dave's [djasonw] place in L.I.
and... I've got dibs on them
I'll be picking them up this week, lastest this weekend.
-Dave
-mike
Will give you a call Thursday to make arrange the weekend meet.
-Dave
I asked around i-club and apparently the Subie alarm can be made passive by connecting two wires together that can be found inside the driver's door -- I was told it's documented in the owner's manual, but I didn't get the upgrade so I don't know if there is a separate manual for the alarm.
I suppose it's fair to charge MSRP for a DIO, but I didn't like how he implied they would install a different alarm system.
I knew it wasn't a separate unit.
What transpired between the finance guy and me thereafter... I'll leave that as between him and me.
MHO, the passive is not worth it. You got to first lock the doors in order for the passive to work [in one minute]. Duh, I might as well active arm.
The Clifford I had with the '98 OB and '99 OBS will arm and lock the doors in 25sec. [no locking of doors first needed].
I'll be "upgrading" my alarm system to an aftermarket soon.
-Dave
Anyone know if it will be introduced at the Detroit auto show later this month?
I plan to be at the Detroit auto show so I will be excited to see it in person.
I just love my 2002 WRX!
Personally I like the round headlights better from the pics. An improved interior on the 04 is of interest to me. It appears the 04s have the M3 inspired "pommel" on the front driver's seat and slightly improved interior bits.
Have you all seen the specs for the STi coming to the states next year?
300hp
300torque
2.5l turbo
fully adjustable diff
all this for a (mere) $32,000 or so...
If only they had a wagon version...
(for WRC that is... but who cares about Group N anyway?)
-Colin
http://impreza.subaru.com/microsites/impreza/main.jsp
Ken
(PS I won't be holding my breath for a 2.5l turbo from Subaru.
WAAAAAHOOOOOOO!!!!
-Jason
-Jason