Subaru Impreza WRX Wagon

mikenk

Thanks for making me really feel old with your statement that you would drive the car into your 40's and 50's. I am 61 and enjoy my wagon as much as you punk kids under 40. I am thinking I will enjoy the WRX into my 70's or 80's, but I might want to replace the driver's seat with a rocking chair.

Now excuse me. I need to take all my medicine before I head to the golf course.

Mike

djasonw

AH--- I've used the Garmin III (voice directions) in my WRX and LOVED IT. I now use it in the allroad. That's what's great about it, the portability. Yes, it's not a clean install but it works great and you can get realtime updates off the net. The detail is INCREDIBLE, as I navigate to places that my friend's built in NAV only dream of. I know what you mean by getting used to it.

As far as the Auto in the WRX. Well... it was OK but off the line it is quite sluggish. A little challenging to drive in traffic if you're not on boost. A great car though and very durable. You won't be disappointed.

WarpDrive

Umm, Mike, don't take it that way.

Basically, I was saying you can drive the car at any age really. I'm not going to let any "preconceived" notions about what people feel dictate the car I drive. I will always be foremost a car enthusiast....and that dictates that the car should feel sporty. If it looks sporty, radical or non-conservative, then so be it. Looks are mostly irrelevant to me....I was done trying to impress my friends years ago.

As I said, whenever I see an older guy drive cars that tend to be driven by a younger crowd, I think "good for you". I hope when I am buying my car in my 60's that I will be picking cars like a WRX too.

mikenk

I knew what you meant; my response was in jest.

The car I sold was the MKIV Supra. Although, I loved that car, I must admit that I was starting to feel rather silly in it; my wife wouldn't even get in it. The WRX wagon is perfect; is practical, looks conservative, but great sport.

I hope I never get so old where I look at a car as just transportation from point A to point B.

Mike

corkfish

That's the beauty of the wagon. It's much stealthier and conservative than the sedan. I've narrowed my choice down to the new version of the WRX wagon ( STI version if they make one and if the price isn't to high), or the EVO VIII.

hunter001

Thanks for the heads-up on garmin.

Actually, I used the Hertz "neverlost" on a recent trip to LA (I wonder who makes the Hertz Nav system), and was very disappointed at its performance when compared to the Acura DVD Navigation (which is rated as the best among all Nav systems and is built by Alpine).

Inside the hotel's underground parking lot, it was completely lost and continued in its confused state till I came out of the parking lot (since it does not have "dead reckoning" capability). Even after getting onto the road (from the Hotel's parking lot), it was lost for a while before finally catching on. The Acura's DVD system re-calculates directions instantaneously, while the Hertz "neverlost" system was a "thinker", which I was not too enthused with while driving on the road with a lot of streets.

Another feature I like is the touch-screen of the Acura system, that I really missed when using the Hertz system, while fiddling around with the buttons in the Hertz system.

I tried pricing the Alpine NVE-N852A portable DVD Navigation system (with Gyro-sensors) on the Net and the cheapest price came to around $2600, which is a lot more than I want to spend, if I could really help it. Anyway, I don't need it right now, since I have my Acura.

Later...AH

paisan

Everything that AH has is the best available at any given time, don't even argue with him

-mike

jthorsen

Yeah, the warranty is more what I'm worried about, although I remember a few years ago there was a lot of discussion up here (Minnesota) about how you could buy cars cheaper in Canada. I believe at the time most of the manufacturers instructed the Canadian dealers not to sell to US customers, so it wouldn't surprise me if they voided the warranty as an added deterrent.

And my comment about feeling too old for an WRX was expressed more as an annoyance of how Subaru chooses to market the car...same type of thing I'm seeing with the Honda Element. It wouldn't stop me from buying one though, just as it didn't stop my 60 year old parents from being one of the first to get a Pontiac Vibe!

-Jon

jthorsen

Hi all, I was just perusing some old posts and saw the link to the Japanese Impreza site which supposedly shows the 2004 design of our Impreza...does anyone know if this is in fact what we will get? I have to say, I like this new look better. Is it just me (or maybe the angle of the pictures) but does the redesign make the front end look longer?

And as I was clicking through the multitude of pictures, I noticed a couple cool features that I hope we get as well!

Pop-up nav system:

http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/sportswagon/06/index.html

I probably wouldn't splurge on something like this, but for some reason it reminded me of the Japanese car from Cannonball run

WRX sunroof (albeit a tiny one)!:

http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/sportswagon/06/06_03.html

I didn't see any mention of an STI wagon though...

-Jon

wrxsoon1

Jon,
From all the posts I've read and links I've seen, yes, this is what the new (2004) Impreza's will look like. I don't think they even offer the STi Wagon in Japan anymore and they've never offered it in any other market.

I, too, am hoping they offer heated seats and mirrors here in the U.S. (SOA are you listening! Stephen don't get started. ;-)) as I will likely get my WRX Wagon next year. Rumor has it that the 2004 models will be hitting the States in March. I read a post on a different site that stated Canada would be getting the optional moon roof (they already get the heated seats and mirrors as standard equipment). So hopefully Subaru will bring that option to the U.S. as well. Not sure about the Nav system.

-Ian

paisan

Almost all vehicles in Japan have available GPS/NAV systems. Even the el-cheapo models have these as deal options. Unfortunately here that isn't the case. Let's hope for the moonroof though.

-mike

saintviper

If you are getting lost in parking structures and while going under bridges and through tunnels, you are relying too much on your nav system and not enough on common sense. Turn you nav system off and look outside the cockpit. You'll probably get lost less.

WarpDrive

People in Japan are gadget crazy, most of that kind of stuff doesn't make it over here (at least on a WRX-class car).

ateixeira

My recent trip to CT was the first time I truly longed for a Nav system. I would have looked for alternate routes several times, it would probably have saved me hours in traffic.

Though so would a plain map. We were in my wife's car and I didn't take them with me (big mistake).

-juice

keithllb1

Nice link Jon, the Japanese have some nice features, I was really impressed with their Sti, I don't think we'll see any Sti's in the states until after 2004's come out in a very limited capacity, I was talking to a dealer and he said they are only allowed to receive about 2 or 3 cars, which I'm sure there is a trove of people already laying claims. And he also said no STI sport wagons. I would love to see an Sti sport wagon! I loved the headlights on the Japanese car. I'm sure our WRX's will easily be upgradeable. I actually kind of like the unique features of the "bug eye" But not as bright as I would expect from a performance vehicle.

hunter001

I was not "lost" in the underground parking lot. The el-cheapo Hertz rental NAV system was lost, since it could not obtain any satellite signals there. High-end systems use dead-reckoning technology to enable them to plot the route even in the complete absence of satellite signals. They do this by storing the last recorded physical location through the last obtained satellite signal, calculating the direction/altitude in which the car travelled (since the receipt of the last signal) and the speed at which the car travelled (since the last signal) and estimates your position (latitude/longitude/street location) precisely. The el-cheapo systems do not do that. They need satellite signals all the time and even while driving in the midst of tall buildings, they get "lost". If the NAV system is lost, then what is the point in having one, other than as a "toy" with no real utility ??

Later...AH

djasonw

AH... I did not know that his technology was employed in the NAV system of the Acura. VERY CLEVER. Once you use a NAV system you wonder how you lived without it. I find it's very helpful when travelling somewhere you're unfamiliar with. It allows the driver to focus on the road and allow the unit to guide him/her precisely to the destination. Definitely safer than trying to read a paper map or written directions while driving.

paisan

As was stated before, why would you need to plot a route in a parking garage? Seems like you just want to toute your equipment as being better than everyone else's guess you have a small equipment problem

-mike

cptplt

in the future for civilian cars so when the Bin laden nuts jam GPS and attack the parking garage you can find your way away from the rubble! :-)

cptplt

so anyone read the latest C & D? besides confirming rumors about a 2.5 single turbo for the Legacy and the WRX being in the Best 10 cars again, they have a test of a M2 WRX which has over 300hp and M2 performance says the stock clutch is more than adequate for this power, contrary to what lots of people think! C & D slipped the clutch 10 times to get 0-60 times in the 4 seconds and had no problems, I can't get out of the car wash without smelling a burnt clutch!:-)

saintviper

If you don't get lost in parking garages, why do you need your nav system to work in them?

p0926

Also, how much extra are you paying for a super-deluxe feature that you will seldom use? I'm sure that I'll own a nav system one of these days but thus far I've driven in 48 states and never gotten lost. I guess I'm just gifted with a natural sense of direction.

-Frank P.

prayerfor

AH -- I must be misunderstanding your description of dead reckoning technology. You seem to suggest that the system will take your last known coordinate, direction of travel, and speed, and assume that these parameters remain constant, and then rely on this assumption to extrapolate the vehicle's position over time. If this is correct then there is very little chance the system will actually be correct in deducing the true vehicle location.

Going back to the parking ramp example: if you enter the ramp at, say, 20 mph heading straight north, and circle the lot for 3 minutes, by the time you're ready to exit, the NAV system would have guesstimated your position to be 1 mile north of your actual position! Whoops!

Or, let's say you enter the Lincoln Tunnel heading toward Manhattan at 60mph, and upon exiting you're undetected due to all the tall buildings... now the NAV system will assume you're still traveling due east through Midtown @ 60mph. You'll arrive at the east bank in roughly 90 seconds. Um, probably not. Personally, I'd rather the system tell me "I lost you" than "welcome to Queens" when really I'm stuck in traffic next to MSG.

p0926

Hmm... I thought that AH was saying that his NAV system was tied into the vehicle's systems and could track speed and direction based off the vehicle's speedo and compass respectively. If so, it's neat gee-whiz technology but again, how often are you really going to use it? Underground parking garage adventures aside that is :-)

-Frank P.

saintviper

I think Frank is right. Since the system is already integrated with the vehicle, this type of monitoring is not difficult to add.

I'll grant you that it's a nice feature, but I wouldn't base my purchase of a nav system or vehicle on it.

hunter001

I was going to a place xxx, which was around 40miles from the hotel.

Normally, you put in the address for xxx, prior to starting out. The NAV then calculates the route and then you are on your way through visual/audio turn-by-turn directions.

I tried to do this route plotting, prior to starting on my journey, which in this case originated in the underground parking lot of the hotel in Los Angeles (far away from my home base).

In case of the Hertz NAV, it could not calculate the route, since it did not have satellite signals to work with, which in case of the Acura NAV, is not an issue at all. ) Incidentally, all NAV systems, need a starting point, from which to plot the route to a destination. ;-) The Hertz NAV did not know where we were !! So I then came out of the hotel's parking lot (hoping that the NAV would get the signals that it needs, once out of the underground parking lot) and merged onto a busy road - the system unfortunately was still "thinking". From my perspective, where do I go now - especially in an unfamiliar region across the country with criss-crossing side-streets and traffic on the road ?? After around 5 minutes or so of meaningless driving around, the NAV finally obtained the signals that it needed to plot the route.

Hope this clarifies the situation. :-))

Later...AH

mtngal

Well, you could have done what the natives do - spend months trying to remember the entire 100 page Thomas Guide, and then get lost anyway!

paisan

That is a riot. No offense but why would you rely solely on the Nav system in a foreign place in a car you've never driven? OPEN YOUR MOUTH and ask the front desk of the Hotel to point you in the right direction for where you are going. Have people become so into their gadgetry that they forgot about SOCIAL SKILLS? I'm sitting here rolling on the floor laughing my pants off at that post!

-mike

hunter001

Paisan, my friend, did you forget that there was something called as a NAV system in the car which is supposed to guide you anywhere ? Asking the front desk is something I would have done, if such a device was not in the car. Isn't that the whole point ?? If you have to ask the front desk for directions, why have such a device ??? The point being, that you cannot rely on el-cheapo systems and a high-end NAV would obviate the need to rely on "Front-desk guidance" to get you to where you want to go. So going by that, I might as well spend the additional dough for a good system than compromise and go for an el-cheapo system....was this not the point I was making all along ?

Later...AH

mtngal

I've got a better idea. Since you can't look at a map and drive to, convince your company that you need a navigator whenever you travel. That navigator should ideally be a lovely member of the sex of your choice (guess where I live) who can read a map! Then you won't be tricked by inaccurate or non-functional NAV systems.

paisan

If you read what I said, it was "a point in the right direction" if you asked and they said make a right out of the lot, then by the time you got a block or 2 down the road, the system would be up and running w/o a problem. There is a big difference in my book between "a point in the right direction" and "directions" but hey whatever floats your boat, I'll stick to my "crappy" Delorme Street Atlas @ $39 which thus far has never gotten me lost.

-mike

p0926

Maybe its because I've never had a NAV system, but I can't fathom heading out to a place I've never been in an unfamiliar city without at least first glancing at a "real" map to get a general idea of where I am and where I'm heading. Do NAV systems really spoil you that much? If so, I think it's kinda sad because you can learn so much about a city and the surrounding area by studying a map. Maybe a NAV system can do a good job of getting you from point A to point B but you will learn little about the surrounding area. Although I'll probably get a NAV system eventually, I'm positive that I'll always have a map of the area also. Besides, without a map and at least rudimentary knowledge of where you are, what do you do if your NAV system breaks? One final thought, Americans are already amazingly ignorant of geography and I can only see it getting worse if there's a growing dependence on NAV systems.

-Frank P.

paisan

I agree whole heartedy. I LOVE maps and what not. I don't own a map anymore though. Usually what I do before a trip is spend at least 1/2hr-1hr studying the Delorme Street Atlas map on my 19" monitor. It's wonderful to be able to clic and zoom in and out on the maps. Very much like a conventional map

-mike

djasonw

You guys should definitely go out and try a NAV system in a car. I do what Paisan does too and I study maps before I go to unfamiliar territory. I even keep a printout next to me in case the NAV craps out (terrorist attack). FWIW... I also am a private pilot and have become accustomed to using NAV aids to go from one location to another. Granted it's a poor analogy but once you've used a NAV system it becomes very addicting. Case in point, I had to find this little Italian restaurant on Hempstead Turnpike (Long Island). I typed in the street address and did NOT have to keep looking away from the road. The system told me precisely how far I had to go (in feet). It's also how I found the Subaru dealer in PA where I had purchased my WRX !

paisan

Love my GPS in unfamiliar terrirtory In fact all this GPS talk reminds me to order my new Delorme street Atlas for the upcoming 48hrs of Tri-state.

-mike

p0926

djasnow- I'm not saying that NAV systems don't serve a useful purpose, just that they can't totally replace a real map.

-Frank P.

hunter001

The folks who have criticized the NAV system are correct to an extent. Basically, I do find myself not looking at a "real map" at all and relying totally on the NAV maps/directions, since those are painless, accurate (upto 10feet or so anywhere in the country) and allows the driver to do the driving as opposed to fiddling with paper maps and/or checking written directions and watching out for upcoming streets. Especially useful while driving near-blind in a storm/pitch darkness/blindingly foggy conditions - The angel in the sky never falters. You do a couple of such trips and you are dearly glad that the "angel" is with you, paper maps in the dashboard or not. Hell, in thick fog, folks would be confused in their own backyard. With the NAV, you know exactly where you are. You can anticipate turns coming up, since you can clearly see how many miles/feet are left till your turn and in situations where you have to make a right turn and another quick right again and then be on a left lane to merge onto an interstate, the NAV would tell you (audibly/visually) - "Right turn, then quick right, then keep to the left lane", before the turns come up - no more creating havoc in traffic !! Of course, you may not need this kind of help in your neck of the woods, since you would know the specific situations there. It is only when I am without it, that I am in trouble (like when on a business trip with a cheap gadget in the car). :-))

Also as an aside, you can zoom out (putting the whole of the city/state/region/country on the screen) in the NAV map or check out a specific area, even to street level detail (by zooming in), if you need to. At least in high-end systems you can do that. You can also scroll around on the screen. All this while sitting in your car, before starting a trip. So this effectively does what a Delorme does on your computer, Paisan, just that the screen is smaller.

Bottomline...I would not rely on el-cheapo systems to get me to where I am going and might as well carry along paper maps. If you need functionality, you got to pay else it is like having a gee-whiz gadget with limited utility. No compromises there !!

Later...AH

mtngal

I've always wanted one but haven't researched them in quite a while. I don't do enough driving in strange cities to justify one, and the older ones I looked at didn't do very well when you are on a sort-of road either up in the mountains or way out in the desert somewhere (they tended to have too many blank spaces) so I got discouraged and haven't looked at them in a long time. Do the new, more expensive ones cover these type areas better now?

hypov

I believe the Garmin StreetPilot III with 128mb mem chip can now be had for ~$800->$900.
http://www.selectzone.com/cgi-bin/shopper.exe?preadd=action&key=GPUC0100023210
It's not the state-of-the-art system, but it gets you there...
I use it to mark an "X" where I parked the car [open lot] whenever I'm at a hugh mall.

-Dave

mfsb

Some people like to write everything down in a daytimer. I prefer a PDA, I LIKE gadgets! I would love to have a top notch nav system in my Outback.

Bill

merrycynic

There was an earlier post here that said that there would be no wagon version of the STi when it finally arrives here. I can't believe that Subaru would forsake all the loyal wagon buyers that kept the company alive all these years in the US. Come on Subaru WRX Sport Wagon devotees, speak up " I WANT MY STi SPORT WAGON ! ", " I WANT MY STi SPORT WAGON ! ", " I WANT MY STi SPORT WAGON ! ".

paisan

There is going to be very few STi models even sold here, I hear it's going to be ~450-700 max units. Not something that the average buyer of a WRX is going to get. It would be nice to see a wagon though.

-mike

hunter001

I would really want to see an STi Wagon in the US too.

Unfortunately, around the world, the STi Sedan is sold with Front and rear mechanical Sure-trac clutch-type differentials and 17x7.5 wheels with 225/45ZR17 tires and Brembo brakes, while the STi wagon comes with the sure-trac differential only in the rear. The front diff of the STi wagon is open like any other WRX. In addition to that, the STi wagon comes with 17x7 wheels with 215/45ZR17 tires and with weaker brakes than what the sedan is equipped with. The Brembo brakes require 17x7.5 wheels for clearance and would not clear the 17x7 STi wagon wheels.

So getting an STi wagon is not the same as getting an STi sedan. Hopefully, the US version would beat the trend and come equipped the same as the Sedan....but I would not bet on it.

Later...AH

rsholland

has been dropped in Japan, for the latest model, IIRC.

Bob

merrycynic

I think it reprehensible that Subaru's wagons are less able and less safe than their sedans. Not only does this create the added burden of having to design more, teach more and keep more inventory, all of which is just plain bad business practice, it is an affront to all the wagon buyers who kept Subaru afloat all these years. The worst part of all of this is that wagon buyers are probably more likely to have children and pets on board, innocent passengers who don't have the right to refuse the ride. Shame on you Subaru. I dare you to justify this practice! The marginal discount won't cut it!

mikenk

huh?

I don't understand any of your comments.

Mike

subearu

All 3 Subaru lines (Forester, Impreza, Legacy/Outback) are highly regarded by the Insurance Institute of Highway Safety. Perhaps you should take a look at the following:

For the Forester: http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_smsuv.htm

For the Impreza: http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_small.htm

For the Legacy/Outback: http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/summary_midinexp.htm

-Brian

locke2c

quote: I think it reprehensible that Subaru's wagons are less able and less safe than their sedans.

less able? how?

less safe? source? (edit: I see Brian has a few links. doubt we'll find anything there about the wagon being less safe, if so please enlighten me.)

-Colin

merrycynic

Impreza wagons are narrower than sedans, base models wagons come with rear drums vs. sedans rear discs, wagons come with a smaller diameter rear roll bar than the sedan, all of which suggests a compromise in braking and handling for the wagon vs. the sedan. The above description of the STi sedan vs. STi wagon certainly suggests a compromise in handling and braking. I'm particularly disappointed to learn that the STi wagon doesn't have a front differential.

subearu

of a front differential does NOT quite make any vehicle more safe than another. Sure it'll aid traction, but all Subaru's have good traction to begin with.

-Brian