Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

QB, Don't forget about used cars too. Once a friend started selling cars at a Ford dealer....he preferred used cars. He said customers don't know the real prices, it isn't as regimented as new car sales.

qbrozen

yes, used cars would be much better suited to me. And, no, I don't have the "fire" of a salesman. I think that is probably the division in car sales: those who are salespeople and those who are car people. It is not often you find someone who is both, IMHO. I'm pretty good with people, but I am an introvert of sorts, so it is one thing to have people come to me and another for me to go find people. I HATE the phone.

imidazol97

I thought about trying selling as a new career and realized I don't have the personality for it. I don't deal well with [nonpermissible content deleted] people. I admire those who have the skills needed. I don't even want to sell my Cobalt myself.

The Mustang I sold, I got a call from my ad in the Trading Post in the Dayton and Cincinnati area, and the guy said something like, "Do you still have it? I want it."

My kind of sale.

Long ago I had said something to Isellhondas, IIRC, that I thought I'd like to try sales.

I think I had dreams of my username being Isellmbs or something like that. Or Isellmalibuswithsmallrearwindows.. LOL

imidazol97

BTW I was behind a Malibu with the shape like an A7 today and I saw an A7 outside the health club. Comparing to Civic and sister Accord, not much difference.

tbirdmarco

 I would be in interesting job for you to be if you do leave the job in the oral field I’ll come there and buy a car from you would love to get into that field at the same time I wouldn’t jerk people around listen to their needs and not try to sell them a car for the sake of selling them car so probably they wouldn’t like that and I wouldn’t last love to get into the BDC department ID dealer it’ll actually deal with the customers most times I’ve been applying for those types of jobs forever now with no luck 

tbirdmarco

 I am me big-time car guy as you all know would be a dream come true working at a dealer doing what I mentioned above but probably most dealers around here I wouldn’t want to work at anyway so maybe it’s good that I haven’t heard from any and they just ignore my application and cover letter I think they’re scared that I am visually impaired oh well it’s their loss I told my cousin that we have to open could use car dealer and start off small that would be cool who knows 

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dibClbd-Tx0

tbirdmarco

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RcA8_k33I0c

driver100

imidazol97 said:

BTW I was behind a Malibu with the shape like an A7 today and I saw an A7 outside the health club. Comparing to Civic and sister Accord, not much difference.

I was checking Edmunds and they give the 2018 Malibu a solid 4 out of 5. U.S. places it #4 of 30 cars in that range with a rating of 8.7 out of 10. Camry #1, Accord #2 Camry hybrid #3.
They rated it low on visibility;
visibility
As with many sedans in the class, the thick roof pillars and high rear decklid obstruct outward visibility.




I do agree, a lot of cars have smaller rear windows these days...I just noticed the difference on the Malibu. The reviews are very positive.

stickguy

I doubt I could put up with being a traditional sales person. The hours I know would probably get to me. that, and dealing with stupid people all day. I want to play with cars, not talk to people.

something in an internet group maybe, but that is just online stuff probably. So not fun

I think the sweet spot is a smaller, high end used place that deals in top quality, mostly enthusiast type cars. Usually it is a small number of people that share sales (with better hours) and other duties. getting involved (if you have the gift!) with picking inventory also fun. But, you will largely be dealing with car people, and not trolling the lot for grinder/ups. And of course, have nice stuff on hand to play with!

tbirdmarco

I  like that idea stick

Sandman6472

The new Malibu is so much better with a 6 cylinder as the 4 just isn't up pro the challenge. Nice interiors though.
Marco, a few years back I went to all the auto dealers right by our house, there are quite a few,and filled out the application to become a shuttle driver for them. Every place I went, the interviewer person kept looking apt my cane and saw it as a liability and thus, not one job offer. Did it back in November at the VW place and this time spoke with the head lady, as she already knew me as a customer. After all that, nothing at all. They see what they perceive that I can't do, not seeing me as an asset since automobiles are my passion. Luckily, my guy at Hertz saw that I could do the job, was doing the job and after being deliberately sabotaged by an old co-worker, the help if another co-worker got me the job.
So yes Marco, the mindsets of so many folks is to see the liability and not the hood that folks like us can bring to the organization. Don't lose heart here, I haven't and am happy at work. Still waiting on Enterprise to go through my paperwork but think they will offer me a driver's slot sooner than later. Just have to decide if my body is up for more hours or is it better to stay the course. Have a lot to think about in the next week or two!!

The Sandman

abacomike

qbrozen said:

Looking for an appropriate auto sales job is not as easy as one might think. Seems like (and of course it makes sense once you think about it) many of the available positions that DON'T require previous experience are stores you really don't want to work at. For example, I came upon an internet sales role that sounded promising... until I realized where it is, which is a dealer we visited once a couple of years ago where we were presented a sales contract at full asking price PLUS a $1k "dealer prep fee." We obviously exited quickly. I've tagged a few possibilities at this point. A VW dealer that I have been to only twice: once just browsing the lot and nobody came out to see me and the other time to turn in my TDI (turn-in was fine but a salesperson behind the front desk was quite rude when he found out I didn't need a replacement vehicle). A Chevy dealer I never even heard of, but the ad mentions sales and entry-level finance, so that's interesting. The third is with an internet aftermarket parts site. I'd imagine the pay there is quite limited. Still not totally sold on the whole idea. Doing something new and different and that obviously incorporates something I love is exciting. But trolling for customers and dealing with difficult people goes with the territory and would get old very quick. Oh, not to mention the crazy hours.

When I think back to my first years as a car salesman (2000-2004) prior to becoming a sales manager, what hits me squarely on the chin is the pain I suffered from my feet.  Those long hours and weekends standing on my feet and walking the new and used inventory was very difficult on my body - but especially my feet.

I was a very successful salesman and was a top performer in my dealership (28-40 new cars each month).  I made good money - but after my 3rd year, my feet started giving out.  So in 2004, I decided enough was enough.

It was by mere luck I was offered a manager’s job across the street at the Infiniti dealership.

So my advice to you if you proceed with selling cars as one of your career options, try to sell cars in an upscale dealership where you deal with a special market segment of buyers.  But most importantly, buy rubber soled shoes that are well cushioned.  Otherwise, you will end up as I did - the rubber soled shoes did help get me through 4 years of new car sales - but that was all I could handle.

fintail

I've been told by MB salesmen that I could sell the cars, as I keep up with the models and features and know a lot about existing models, but I don't know if I could handle some of the customers, nor pull the hard sell tactic. I'd be along the lines of "if you don't want to buy it, fine".

fintail

We have the "slow down" ones here too, which just make me snicker, as they are triggered at 5 over. What a great use of resources, the height of logic and accountability.

andres3 said:

The red & blue flashers are the newest latest and greatest thing. Usually in the past it was just the flashing numbers or a flashing "slow down" in between flashing your "score." I think it works in that it reminds you the mobile stationary radar jig is brought to you by the Police Department.

I wonder if they store any of the readings, maybe a wi-fi connection to upload readings in the triple digits. You know, to alert them that the radar might be broken.

Hopefully they are used to appease an old geezer that lives nearby and called to complain about those "damn speeders."

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

Looking for an appropriate auto sales job is not as easy as one might think. Seems like (and of course it makes sense once you think about it) many of the available positions that DON'T require previous experience are stores you really don't want to work at. For example, I came upon an internet sales role that sounded promising... until I realized where it is, which is a dealer we visited once a couple of years ago where we were presented a sales contract at full asking price PLUS a $1k "dealer prep fee." We obviously exited quickly.

I've tagged a few possibilities at this point. A VW dealer that I have been to only twice: once just browsing the lot and nobody came out to see me and the other time to turn in my TDI (turn-in was fine but a salesperson behind the front desk was quite rude when he found out I didn't need a replacement vehicle). A Chevy dealer I never even heard of, but the ad mentions sales and entry-level finance, so that's interesting. The third is with an internet aftermarket parts site. I'd imagine the pay there is quite limited.

Still not totally sold on the whole idea. Doing something new and different and that obviously incorporates something I love is exciting. But trolling for customers and dealing with difficult people goes with the territory and would get old very quick. Oh, not to mention the crazy hours.

A good salesman either must believe in the product or must have enough of a sociopath in him to enjoy manipulating people. Otherwise people see right through you.

I think most (not all) car guys make poor salesmen because their first instinct would be to give the car away so the customer can enjoy it as much as you do. Not good for your commissions. Also it would be tough for me to sell unnecessary things like mop&aglow.

It's a rare person who can stay enthused while knowing the dark side of the business.

driver100

fintail said:

I've been told by MB salesmen that I could sell the cars, as I keep up with the models and features and know a lot about existing models, but I don't know if I could handle some of the customers, nor pull the hard sell tactic. I'd be along the lines of "if you don't want to buy it, fine".

You are very knowledgeable about MBs and I think that would be a great asset. I don't think good salesmen use "hard selling" these days. The best approach is to find out what your customer wants, and then help him to get there. Like the Audi salesman told us...the people buying in this market are pretty sophisticated, it is better to be upfront, give a good discount off the top, and go from there. Few people will buy a car they don't want because the salesman does a hard sell on them. If what you got doesn't suit them, then you probably won't sell to them anyway.

I don't mind customers who come to me...what I don't like is cold calling...unless I have a great product that I know people will want. I can explain the advantages and sell something...but, I can't sell something I don't believe in.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

Looking for an appropriate auto sales job is not as easy as one might think. Seems like (and of course it makes sense once you think about it) many of the available positions that DON'T require previous experience are stores you really don't want to work at. For example, I came upon an internet sales role that sounded promising... until I realized where it is, which is a dealer we visited once a couple of years ago where we were presented a sales contract at full asking price PLUS a $1k "dealer prep fee." We obviously exited quickly.

I've tagged a few possibilities at this point. A VW dealer that I have been to only twice: once just browsing the lot and nobody came out to see me and the other time to turn in my TDI (turn-in was fine but a salesperson behind the front desk was quite rude when he found out I didn't need a replacement vehicle). A Chevy dealer I never even heard of, but the ad mentions sales and entry-level finance, so that's interesting. The third is with an internet aftermarket parts site. I'd imagine the pay there is quite limited.

Still not totally sold on the whole idea. Doing something new and different and that obviously incorporates something I love is exciting. But trolling for customers and dealing with difficult people goes with the territory and would get old very quick. Oh, not to mention the crazy hours.

A good salesman either must believe in the product or must have enough of a sociopath in him to enjoy manipulating people. Otherwise people see right through you.

Agree!

oldfarmer50

sandman_6472 said:

The new Malibu is so much better with a 6 cylinder as the 4 just isn't up pro the challenge. Nice interiors though.
Marco, a few years back I went to all the auto dealers right by our house, there are quite a few,and filled out the application to become a shuttle driver for them. Every place I went, the interviewer person kept looking apt my cane and saw it as a liability and thus, not one job offer. Did it back in November at the VW place and this time spoke with the head lady, as she already knew me as a customer. After all that, nothing at all. They see what they perceive that I can't do, not seeing me as an asset since automobiles are my passion. Luckily, my guy at Hertz saw that I could do the job, was doing the job and after being deliberately sabotaged by an old co-worker, the help if another co-worker got me the job.
So yes Marco, the mindsets of so many folks is to see the liability and not the hood that folks like us can bring to the organization. Don't lose heart here, I haven't and am happy at work. Still waiting on Enterprise to go through my paperwork but think they will offer me a driver's slot sooner than later. Just have to decide if my body is up for more hours or is it better to stay the course. Have a lot to think about in the next week or two!!

The Sandman

I've been meaning to ask how things were going with Enterprise. My place has really long hours. I just finished a 14 hour shift. Tiring but I guess it's easier than having 2 seven hour days.

I just turned down an offer from a school bus company to deliver their buses to schools with in the state. The schedule was all over the place 0-30 hours a week depending on their needs but always on call. Also the commute to their location is three times longer than my current job. But the worst part was the pay...$11/hr for all the hassle of having a class B CDL. Are they kidding? They think I'm giving up driving a bunch of nice cars to bounce around in a non air conditioned bus for a few pennies more?

Oh and Hertz called me again for a transporter job.

fintail

A salesman told me "the cars sell themselves", which might be true - so many people want the badge, and there are enthusiasts out there too, that it might not be the worst. But around here anyway, people can sometimes be a little entitled, and I might not have patience for it. But as you say, most shoppers in that price range probably have some idea what they want, and are more shopping p rice and features/colors, so it might not be the hardest sell. Although I don't adore every model, I still have some enthusiasm for the brand, and it might be worth it for the demo alone.

Cold calling would be another tough one, too. Come to me, I am not going to beg. But if the cars sell themselves, maybe one doesn't have to

driver100 said:

You are very knowledgeable about MBs and I think that would be a great asset. I don't think good salesmen use "hard selling" these days. The best approach is to find out what your customer wants, and then help him to get there. Like the Audi salesman told us...the people buying in this market are pretty sophisticated, it is better to be upfront, give a good discount off the top, and go from there. Few people will buy a car they don't want because the salesman does a hard sell on them. If what you got doesn't suit them, then you probably won't sell to them anyway.

I don't mind customers who come to me...what I don't like is cold calling...unless I have a great product that I know people will want. I can explain the advantages and sell something...but, I can't sell something I don't believe in.

tbirdmarco

 Sandy yes very sad how they don’t see the good in us just the liability not gonna give up and keep at it like I’ve been doing for over 12 years since I got out of high school not like me to give up just frustrating at times I’m glad I’ve been a member of Edmunds since 2005 best thing I ever did and good luck with the potential second job I hope it all works out for you man 

tbirdmarco

 Wow old farmer that sounds like a crazy job that you turned down it would’ve been all over the place what type of work are you doing now were you previously doing? 

driver100

fintail said:

Cold calling would be another tough one, too. Come to me, I am not going to beg. But if the cars sell themselves, maybe one doesn't have to

driver100 said:

You are very knowledgeable about MBs and I think that would be a great asset. I don't think good salesmen use "hard selling" these days. The best approach is to find out what your customer wants, and then help him to get there. Like the Audi salesman told us...the people buying in this market are pretty sophisticated, it is better to be upfront, give a good discount off the top, and go from there. Few people will buy a car they don't want because the salesman does a hard sell on them. If what you got doesn't suit them, then you probably won't sell to them anyway.

I don't mind customers who come to me...what I don't like is cold calling...unless I have a great product that I know people will want. I can explain the advantages and sell something...but, I can't sell something I don't believe in.

We sold the book...Joe Girard....World's Greatest Salesman! I took him around to a few interviews. He had little formal education but he was a born marketing guy...could shmooze and be as phony as can be....but he knew all the tricks. If he wasn't busy he would cold call people from a telephone book...he would get on the phone and say "Mrs Jones, it is Joe from ABC Motors, your car has been repaired and is ready for pick up". She would say we don't have a car at ABC Motors, you must have the wrong number....and he would turn the conversation into why they should see him about a new car. He was also big on sending out birthday cards before others caught on.

I don't think his kind of selling would work as well these days. Today, buyers are more knowledgeable, it comes down to finding a car that suits the customer....making it easy and comfortable....and being trustworthy.

tbirdmarco

 Agreed with the commenters above would not big they would have to come to me or not hound people on the lot so I guess I wouldn’t make a good car salesman then Ha ha ha that’s an interesting way of selling that he did yes today I probably would not work interesting though happy Friday all 

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

They think I'm giving up driving a bunch of nice cars to bounce around in a non air conditioned bus for a few pennies more?

What!!! The buses aren't air conditioned?

imidazol97

driver100 said:

I don't think his kind of selling would work as well these days. Today, buyers are more knowledgeable, it comes down to finding a car that suits the customer....making it easy and comfortable....and being trustworthy.

The techniques of Joe Girard expose how old day car salespeople got the reputation.

Today's sales folk have to deal with no credit/low credit worthiness, egos about what kind of car they need vs what they actually want, and a manager who's working to meet the sales goals for the month to earn him a trip to Aruba.

With all the identity car ads selling to people's self-image of what the car, in their own mind, says to other people about the buyer, I doubt I would have made it.

... "Sir, you don't need a Ford F250 with the Montana ultra pulling power high speed engine and axes that come out to whack anyone doubting your truck's ability to be the fastest, mostest, and anythingest on the road which is your self concept I can tell...."

..."Lady, you don't need a Jaguar with the extra cool pink roof and the Princess package from London--you need a Cavalier to get to and from work at the fast food place. That's all you can afford. Now get out of my booth so I find someone who can actually afford to buy one of our cars."

Followed by the intercom, "Mr. Azol, please come to the manger's raised booth next to the cappuccino machine. Bring your order book and your stock of pens to turn in."

fintail

The cold calling "wrong number" trick wouldn't work today, I think that one could end up with bad PR - social media and consumer segments on TV news would eat it up. Funny thing, I still get Christmas cards from a salesman I bought a car from at the turn of the century. I've moved since then, and he is now some distance away, odds I won't be back there again to buy, strictly out of convenience - it would have to be a very special car at a special price. Nice to see he is still with the same dealership anyway - when AutoNation took over the local MB dealer, there was a mass exodus, with maybe only a couple salespeople and sales managers remaining from the family-run days.

driver100 said:

We sold the book...Joe Girard....World's Greatest Salesman! I took him around to a few interviews. He had little formal education but he was a born marketing guy...could shmooze and be as phony as can be....but he knew all the tricks. If he wasn't busy he would cold call people from a telephone book...he would get on the phone and say "Mrs Jones, it is Joe from ABC Motors, your car has been repaired and is ready for pick up". She would say we don't have a car at ABC Motors, you must have the wrong number....and he would turn the conversation into why they should see him about a new car. He was also big on sending out birthday cards before others caught on.

I don't think his kind of selling would work as well these days. Today, buyers are more knowledgeable, it comes down to finding a car that suits the customer....making it easy and comfortable....and being trustworthy.

oldfarmer50

fintail said:

A salesman told me "the cars sell themselves", which might be true - so many people want the badge, and there are enthusiasts out there too, that it might not be the worst. But around here anyway, people can sometimes be a little entitled, and I might not have patience for it. But as you say, most shoppers in that price range probably have some idea what they want, and are more shopping p rice and features/colors, so it might not be the hardest sell. Although I don't adore every model, I still have some enthusiasm for the brand, and it might be worth it for the demo alone.

Cold calling would be another tough one, too. Come to me, I am not going to beg. But if the cars sell themselves, maybe one doesn't have to

driver100 said:

You are very knowledgeable about MBs and I think that would be a great asset. I don't think good salesmen use "hard selling" these days. The best approach is to find out what your customer wants, and then help him to get there. Like the Audi salesman told us...the people buying in this market are pretty sophisticated, it is better to be upfront, give a good discount off the top, and go from there. Few people will buy a car they don't want because the salesman does a hard sell on them. If what you got doesn't suit them, then you probably won't sell to them anyway.

I don't mind customers who come to me...what I don't like is cold calling...unless I have a great product that I know people will want. I can explain the advantages and sell something...but, I can't sell something I don't believe in.

Anything that "sells itself" doesn't need a salesman.

oldfarmer50

tbirdmarco said:

 Wow old farmer that sounds like a crazy job that you turned down it would’ve been all over the place what type of work are you doing now were you previously doing? 

My last job before retirement was school bus driver/farmer. Now I'm a car transporter/part-time farmer. My car transporter job is all over the place too but more fun than driving a bus.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

They think I'm giving up driving a bunch of nice cars to bounce around in a non air conditioned bus for a few pennies more?

What!!! The buses aren't air conditioned?

They don't have any heat either for the first hour or so.

oldfarmer50

I'm watching Graveyard Cars for the first time. Unusual show. I like the cars they're working on but the drama is a little thick. The father seems to be a bit of a nut and a bully. Can't figure the role of the daughter. She seems to be cast as the empowered woman but then all the guys act like she's stupid. I'll have to watch a few episodes before I decide on what I think.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

I'm watching Graveyard Cars for the first time. Unusual show. I like the cars they're working on but the drama is a little thick. The father seems to be a bit of a nut and a bully. Can't figure the role of the daughter. She seems to be cast as the empowered woman but then all the guys act like she's stupid. I'll have to watch a few episodes before I decide on what I think.

It's just a horribly-produced show. It's a shame as the cars themselves would interest me but I cannot watch it. The main guy (Mark) drives me nuts and the others in the cast of characters are only slightly better. There is way too much fake drama and repetition. The early seasons were even worse before they dumped a couple of the original characters from the show, but it is still intolerable for me.

graphicguy

oldfarmer50 said:

I'm watching Graveyard Cars for the first time. Unusual show. I like the cars they're working on but the drama is a little thick. The father seems to be a bit of a nut and a bully. Can't figure the role of the daughter. She seems to be cast as the empowered woman but then all the guys act like she's stupid. I'll have to watch a few episodes before I decide on what I think.

I didn’t realize that show was still on the air. I quit watching it for the same reasons you mentioned. I do like the MOPARs, but the “father” made some comments in one of the shows regarding his daughter being little more than the “fruit of my loins”. That was too creepy for me. Plus, he just comes off as a “doofus”.

If they would recast it with a different lead, I might tune in again.

isellhondas

oldfarmer50 said:

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

Why do you feel that way?

MSRP is what the factory "suggests" is a fair price to pay for the car. Some people are happy to pay that. others pay less and some high demand low supply cars will command more. I fully under why a lot of people would never consider paying over MSRP for ANY car in fact, I am one of those people. I never HAVE to have a certain car or even a certain color.

Still, it's always the market that determines pricing and not some sticker on the side window.

In 1990 when Mazda introduced the Miata it was a Grand Slam over the fence HOME RUN! They got this one right and people lined up to snap the up. Mazda grossly underestimated the demand and had to scramble to ramp up production! People were happy to pay 2-3000 dollars over MSRP!

Much harder to believe was the fact the same thing happened when PT Cruisers came out! People went nuts over them and snapped everyone up at over MSRP!

Now, resale on these is worse than horrible.

In 1999 it was the same thing with the new Odysseys! We had people lined up to test drive them and had a devoted college student taking them out. It was NUTS! People were happy to pay over MSRP and wait six weeks! Did they pay too much...? Not to them and I guess that's what matters.

Houses are even worse especially now! A friend listed their house here for 850,000 and it sold the next day with lots of backup offers for 75,000 more than asking! NUTS but that's the market!

Face it, most people are sheep who get stampeded by trendy things. ADM is the price you pay for chasing fads.

OTOH, I have to disagree on the PT Cruiser. I get letters constantly from dealers telling me my wife's car is in "high demand" and offering "top dollar" if I trade.

Good thing too because I was starting to think it was a mildly useful grocery getter with questionable build quality and rotten gas milage.

I don't want to pop your bubble as to the worth of your PT Cruiser but it seems that once they had their "day in the sun" which lasted a couple of years values really dropped. Making things worse were the crash test results and ho hum reviews from the car magazines and the owners. Car rental companies bought them by the boatload and when they dumped them en masse in at the auctions down the road values suffered. That said, we have friends who are on their second PT and ae unhappy now that they can't buy another new one! They just loved the two they had! Of course the dealer is going to offer "top dollar". You might not like that number!

isellhondas

sandman_6472 said:

Have driven multiple new 2018 Camrys at work and live 'email because they do everything right! Not super fancy and gas good ole knobs for the infotainment system with looks that are o k. Haven't driven a new Accord yet and we don't have any yet in our fleet but can not wait. Definitely is a big vehicle which is not something I gravitate to but think they will sell a whole bunch. The Civic is very nice but one needs to get a model like the EX or higher to get all the good stuff.
Too bad that Honda hasn't put in a small turbo in the HR-V as it's just screaming for some more power from what I've read. The interior is very nice especially in the EX and EX-L versions but again, the lack of knobs on the infotainment system is plain dumb!!! Put the 1.5 turbo in it and give me my beloved knobs on the stereo and I'll buy one as my next vehicle, but they also need to upgrade the alloys.

The Sandman

Unless things have changed recently Honda never sold cars to rental companies and we were glad that they didn't. When these cars get dumped to auction two years down the road in huge qualities it kills the value or them and cheapens the resale values. Now, individual dealers have made sales in small numbers to rental companies but unless things have changed Honda refused to so so!

isellhondas

stickguy said:

question for the experts. Any opinions on brand of garage door opener? And Belt over chain? My older unit (about 15 YO) has been getting pretty noisy and rattly for a while now, and yesterday, kept jamming part way down and reversing. Most likely the gear set is just shot at this point, causing issues. So, I could live with noise, but not closing, well, that can be an issue! So, need to do something.

Not leaning toward trying to rebuild an old Craftsman at this point (plus the keypad and door button seem to be wearing out, because they also are erratic). So, going to bite the bullet I think and get a new one instead.

so, looking for opinions in case anyone feels like sharing. Definitely won't be another craftsman.

Oh, I have single doors (might be 8', but I would have to measure) and the current units are 1/2 HP, which seems fine. I don't see a need to go up on that at this point.

Stanley used to build good ones and we have two that are 32 years old that have been flawless. I have heard that these are now made in China and are no longer any good along with others that are now China made. I would ask a couple of garage door repair guys what they think!

stickguy

well, the installer is just finishing up. I decided to put the liftmaster they carry up instead of rebuilding the old one (the guy pulled some broken bearing pieces out of the top). The opener buttons were erratic, and by the time we replaced all the extras, made more sense to put up a new one. Way quieter too, with the belt drive and new motor. Now hopefully the other unit lasts until we can sell the house!

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

fintail said:

A salesman told me "the cars sell themselves", which might be true - so many people want the badge, and there are enthusiasts out there too, that it might not be the worst. But around here anyway, people can sometimes be a little entitled, and I might not have patience for it. But as you say, most shoppers in that price range probably have some idea what they want, and are more shopping p rice and features/colors, so it might not be the hardest sell. Although I don't adore every model, I still have some enthusiasm for the brand, and it might be worth it for the demo alone.

Cold calling would be another tough one, too. Come to me, I am not going to beg. But if the cars sell themselves, maybe one doesn't have to

driver100 said:

You are very knowledgeable about MBs and I think that would be a great asset. I don't think good salesmen use "hard selling" these days. The best approach is to find out what your customer wants, and then help him to get there. Like the Audi salesman told us...the people buying in this market are pretty sophisticated, it is better to be upfront, give a good discount off the top, and go from there. Few people will buy a car they don't want because the salesman does a hard sell on them. If what you got doesn't suit them, then you probably won't sell to them anyway.

I don't mind customers who come to me...what I don't like is cold calling...unless I have a great product that I know people will want. I can explain the advantages and sell something...but, I can't sell something I don't believe in.

Anything that "sells itself" doesn't need a salesman.

Actually, it does. You still have to get the word out there, and a good salesperson can get his foot in the door enough...to explain why you have to have the item. For major items, face to face selling can still be very effective.

fintail

I've only heard of a small amount of late run "whale" Accord making it to fleets, and some same-era (2012 or so) Civics, too. Never seen a Pilot or Odyssey etc in a fleet, and haven't seen or heard of a Honda in a fleet for several years. I have personally seen Acura ILX in the National fleet.

isellhondas said:

Unless things have changed recently Honda never sold cars to rental companies and we were glad that they didn't. When these cars get dumped to auction two years down the road in huge qualities it kills the value or them and cheapens the resale values. Now, individual dealers have made sales in small numbers to rental companies but unless things have changed Honda refused to so so!

fintail

Other than to try to upsell on features, a model, specific financing, etc. But for many prestige badge cars, I have a feeling there's not a ton of cross-shopping.

oldfarmer50 said:

Anything that "sells itself" doesn't need a salesman.

ab348

I always hated that line that "Product X sells itself". Politicians here used to use it a lot talking about our liquor board when they were questioning whatever we might be doing in terms of renovating stores, investing in IT, spending money on staff training, whatever. I have never met a product that runs up to you and jumps into your arms except for the odd puppy. The right products need to be selected, bought and priced competitively, shipped in efficiently, put on the shelves, displayed attractively, and have inventory to be continually available for sale among many other things. It's easy to say something sells itself when you walk into an attractive store and see the product ready for you to buy. It's all the other stuff that takes the effort and smarts.

thebean

isellhondas said:

oldfarmer50 said:

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

Why do you feel that way?

MSRP is what the factory "suggests" is a fair price to pay for the car. Some people are happy to pay that. others pay less and some high demand low supply cars will command more. I fully under why a lot of people would never consider paying over MSRP for ANY car in fact, I am one of those people. I never HAVE to have a certain car or even a certain color.

Still, it's always the market that determines pricing and not some sticker on the side window.

In 1990 when Mazda introduced the Miata it was a Grand Slam over the fence HOME RUN! They got this one right and people lined up to snap the up. Mazda grossly underestimated the demand and had to scramble to ramp up production! People were happy to pay 2-3000 dollars over MSRP!

Much harder to believe was the fact the same thing happened when PT Cruisers came out! People went nuts over them and snapped everyone up at over MSRP!

Now, resale on these is worse than horrible.

In 1999 it was the same thing with the new Odysseys! We had people lined up to test drive them and had a devoted college student taking them out. It was NUTS! People were happy to pay over MSRP and wait six weeks! Did they pay too much...? Not to them and I guess that's what matters.

Houses are even worse especially now! A friend listed their house here for 850,000 and it sold the next day with lots of backup offers for 75,000 more than asking! NUTS but that's the market!

Face it, most people are sheep who get stampeded by trendy things. ADM is the price you pay for chasing fads.

OTOH, I have to disagree on the PT Cruiser. I get letters constantly from dealers telling me my wife's car is in "high demand" and offering "top dollar" if I trade.

Good thing too because I was starting to think it was a mildly useful grocery getter with questionable build quality and rotten gas milage.

I don't want to pop your bubble as to the worth of your PT Cruiser but it seems that once they had their "day in the sun" which lasted a couple of years values really dropped. Making things worse were the crash test results and ho hum reviews from the car magazines and the owners. Car rental companies bought them by the boatload and when they dumped them en masse in at the auctions down the road values suffered. That said, we have friends who are on their second PT and ae unhappy now that they can't buy another new one! They just loved the two they had! Of course the dealer is going to offer "top dollar". You might not like that number!

Come on, Craig. Surely you recognize OF's sarcasm on his PT value.

oldfarmer50

isellhondas said:

oldfarmer50 said:

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

Why do you feel that way?

MSRP is what the factory "suggests" is a fair price to pay for the car. Some people are happy to pay that. others pay less and some high demand low supply cars will command more. I fully under why a lot of people would never consider paying over MSRP for ANY car in fact, I am one of those people. I never HAVE to have a certain car or even a certain color.

Still, it's always the market that determines pricing and not some sticker on the side window.

In 1990 when Mazda introduced the Miata it was a Grand Slam over the fence HOME RUN! They got this one right and people lined up to snap the up. Mazda grossly underestimated the demand and had to scramble to ramp up production! People were happy to pay 2-3000 dollars over MSRP!

Much harder to believe was the fact the same thing happened when PT Cruisers came out! People went nuts over them and snapped everyone up at over MSRP!

Now, resale on these is worse than horrible.

In 1999 it was the same thing with the new Odysseys! We had people lined up to test drive them and had a devoted college student taking them out. It was NUTS! People were happy to pay over MSRP and wait six weeks! Did they pay too much...? Not to them and I guess that's what matters.

Houses are even worse especially now! A friend listed their house here for 850,000 and it sold the next day with lots of backup offers for 75,000 more than asking! NUTS but that's the market!

Face it, most people are sheep who get stampeded by trendy things. ADM is the price you pay for chasing fads.

OTOH, I have to disagree on the PT Cruiser. I get letters constantly from dealers telling me my wife's car is in "high demand" and offering "top dollar" if I trade.

Good thing too because I was starting to think it was a mildly useful grocery getter with questionable build quality and rotten gas milage.

I don't want to pop your bubble as to the worth of your PT Cruiser but it seems that once they had their "day in the sun" which lasted a couple of years values really dropped. Making things worse were the crash test results and ho hum reviews from the car magazines and the owners. Car rental companies bought them by the boatload and when they dumped them en masse in at the auctions down the road values suffered. That said, we have friends who are on their second PT and ae unhappy now that they can't buy another new one! They just loved the two they had! Of course the dealer is going to offer "top dollar". You might not like that number!

LOL, I have no bubble to pop re: the PT. I bought it for my wife because she thought it was cute and entry was easy. Gas milage, rust resistance and mechanical reliability are disappointing. I also have no illusions about what "top dollar" means.

isellhondas

thebean said:

isellhondas said:

oldfarmer50 said:

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

Why do you feel that way?

MSRP is what the factory "suggests" is a fair price to pay for the car. Some people are happy to pay that. others pay less and some high demand low supply cars will command more. I fully under why a lot of people would never consider paying over MSRP for ANY car in fact, I am one of those people. I never HAVE to have a certain car or even a certain color.

Still, it's always the market that determines pricing and not some sticker on the side window.

In 1990 when Mazda introduced the Miata it was a Grand Slam over the fence HOME RUN! They got this one right and people lined up to snap the up. Mazda grossly underestimated the demand and had to scramble to ramp up production! People were happy to pay 2-3000 dollars over MSRP!

Much harder to believe was the fact the same thing happened when PT Cruisers came out! People went nuts over them and snapped everyone up at over MSRP!

Now, resale on these is worse than horrible.

In 1999 it was the same thing with the new Odysseys! We had people lined up to test drive them and had a devoted college student taking them out. It was NUTS! People were happy to pay over MSRP and wait six weeks! Did they pay too much...? Not to them and I guess that's what matters.

Houses are even worse especially now! A friend listed their house here for 850,000 and it sold the next day with lots of backup offers for 75,000 more than asking! NUTS but that's the market!

Face it, most people are sheep who get stampeded by trendy things. ADM is the price you pay for chasing fads.

OTOH, I have to disagree on the PT Cruiser. I get letters constantly from dealers telling me my wife's car is in "high demand" and offering "top dollar" if I trade.

Good thing too because I was starting to think it was a mildly useful grocery getter with questionable build quality and rotten gas milage.

I don't want to pop your bubble as to the worth of your PT Cruiser but it seems that once they had their "day in the sun" which lasted a couple of years values really dropped. Making things worse were the crash test results and ho hum reviews from the car magazines and the owners. Car rental companies bought them by the boatload and when they dumped them en masse in at the auctions down the road values suffered. That said, we have friends who are on their second PT and ae unhappy now that they can't buy another new one! They just loved the two they had! Of course the dealer is going to offer "top dollar". You might not like that number!

Come on, Craig. Surely you recognize OF's sarcasm on his PT value.

Yep. that one went right over my head. I actually thought he was serious.

oldfarmer50

isellhondas said:

sandman_6472 said:

Have driven multiple new 2018 Camrys at work and live 'email because they do everything right! Not super fancy and gas good ole knobs for the infotainment system with looks that are o k. Haven't driven a new Accord yet and we don't have any yet in our fleet but can not wait. Definitely is a big vehicle which is not something I gravitate to but think they will sell a whole bunch. The Civic is very nice but one needs to get a model like the EX or higher to get all the good stuff.
Too bad that Honda hasn't put in a small turbo in the HR-V as it's just screaming for some more power from what I've read. The interior is very nice especially in the EX and EX-L versions but again, the lack of knobs on the infotainment system is plain dumb!!! Put the 1.5 turbo in it and give me my beloved knobs on the stereo and I'll buy one as my next vehicle, but they also need to upgrade the alloys.

The Sandman

Unless things have changed recently Honda never sold cars to rental companies and we were glad that they didn't. When these cars get dumped to auction two years down the road in huge qualities it kills the value or them and cheapens the resale values. Now, individual dealers have made sales in small numbers to rental companies but unless things have changed Honda refused to so so!

I haven't seen any Hondas in the Enterprise fleet. I have seen Toyotas though. I drove a Corolla yesterday and was disappointed. Cramped, no power and uncomfortable. I much preferred the Ford Focus I drove next. Very zippy and surprisingly good handling. Too bad it was an SE with typical cheap rental car interior.

You make an interesting point. Does Honda retain resale value because they don't sell to rental fleets. Does it hurt resale on Toyotas?

stickguy

Not based on what dealers ask for them on the lot!

dino001

stickguy said:

Not based on what dealers ask for them on the lot!

I think it's all matter of quantities. You certainly see way more Toyotas than Hondas in rental fleets, but it's nothing in comparison to say GM, Hyundai, Kia, or Chrysler. Enterprise used to be nearly exclusive to GM and with its size it was overwhelming the market with the supply. What's worse, Enterprise's vehicles were usually strippers across the board, sometimes their own "special" versions of models that were stripped from standard retail models. Not just convenience features, safety, too. My biggest antifavorite was "special Enterprise edition" of Impalas without side impact airbags. They were already standard on majority retail vehicles in that vehicle class at the time, but since they were not mandatory by law just yet, Enterprise decided their customers certainly don't need such an opulent and excessive safety device.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

isellhondas said:

sandman_6472 said:

Have driven multiple new 2018 Camrys at work and live 'email because they do everything right! Not super fancy and gas good ole knobs for the infotainment system with looks that are o k. Haven't driven a new Accord yet and we don't have any yet in our fleet but can not wait. Definitely is a big vehicle which is not something I gravitate to but think they will sell a whole bunch. The Civic is very nice but one needs to get a model like the EX or higher to get all the good stuff.
Too bad that Honda hasn't put in a small turbo in the HR-V as it's just screaming for some more power from what I've read. The interior is very nice especially in the EX and EX-L versions but again, the lack of knobs on the infotainment system is plain dumb!!! Put the 1.5 turbo in it and give me my beloved knobs on the stereo and I'll buy one as my next vehicle, but they also need to upgrade the alloys.

The Sandman

Unless things have changed recently Honda never sold cars to rental companies and we were glad that they didn't. When these cars get dumped to auction two years down the road in huge qualities it kills the value or them and cheapens the resale values. Now, individual dealers have made sales in small numbers to rental companies but unless things have changed Honda refused to so so!

I haven't seen any Hondas in the Enterprise fleet. I have seen Toyotas though. I drove a Corolla yesterday and was disappointed. Cramped, no power and uncomfortable. I much preferred the Ford Focus I drove next. Very zippy and surprisingly good handling. Too bad it was an SE with typical cheap rental car interior.

You make an interesting point. Does Honda retain resale value because they don't sell to rental fleets. Does it hurt resale on Toyotas?

Rental cars aren't a great deal for car companies....minimum profit, they usually by stripped models, customers could get turned off the brand. GM sometimes likes to sell cars to them as it keeps their assembly lines moving. Honda has made a decision not to discount enough to make it worthwhile for rental companies to buy them. They never were about big numbers anyway....they have a different business model....build the right number of cars just to remain profitable and you don't have to cut prices. Toyota is in the numbers game and likes to be #1.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

isellhondas said:

oldfarmer50 said:

isellhondas said:

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I remember seeing 10K ADMs on the Crossfire and SSR. Seems hilarious now. We all probably know about the big ADMs on loaded early PT Cruisers, too.

ADM is like the kiss of death.

Why do you feel that way?

MSRP is what the factory "suggests" is a fair price to pay for the car. Some people are happy to pay that. others pay less and some high demand low supply cars will command more. I fully under why a lot of people would never consider paying over MSRP for ANY car in fact, I am one of those people. I never HAVE to have a certain car or even a certain color.

Still, it's always the market that determines pricing and not some sticker on the side window.

In 1990 when Mazda introduced the Miata it was a Grand Slam over the fence HOME RUN! They got this one right and people lined up to snap the up. Mazda grossly underestimated the demand and had to scramble to ramp up production! People were happy to pay 2-3000 dollars over MSRP!

Much harder to believe was the fact the same thing happened when PT Cruisers came out! People went nuts over them and snapped everyone up at over MSRP!

Now, resale on these is worse than horrible.

In 1999 it was the same thing with the new Odysseys! We had people lined up to test drive them and had a devoted college student taking them out. It was NUTS! People were happy to pay over MSRP and wait six weeks! Did they pay too much...? Not to them and I guess that's what matters.

Houses are even worse especially now! A friend listed their house here for 850,000 and it sold the next day with lots of backup offers for 75,000 more than asking! NUTS but that's the market!

Face it, most people are sheep who get stampeded by trendy things. ADM is the price you pay for chasing fads.

OTOH, I have to disagree on the PT Cruiser. I get letters constantly from dealers telling me my wife's car is in "high demand" and offering "top dollar" if I trade.

Good thing too because I was starting to think it was a mildly useful grocery getter with questionable build quality and rotten gas milage.

I don't want to pop your bubble as to the worth of your PT Cruiser but it seems that once they had their "day in the sun" which lasted a couple of years values really dropped. Making things worse were the crash test results and ho hum reviews from the car magazines and the owners. Car rental companies bought them by the boatload and when they dumped them en masse in at the auctions down the road values suffered. That said, we have friends who are on their second PT and ae unhappy now that they can't buy another new one! They just loved the two they had! Of course the dealer is going to offer "top dollar". You might not like that number!

LOL, I have no bubble to pop re: the PT. I bought it for my wife because she thought it was cute and entry was easy. Gas milage, rust resistance and mechanical reliability are disappointing. I also have no illusions about what "top dollar" means.

Top Dollar is a relative term....depending on the car in question.

cdnpinhead

When cars are produced in spite of whether there's a demand for them, they end up in "fleets," which means rentals. Generally National rents GM stuff and Hertz does Ford. Anything else is their fleets were probably bought for a song at the end of the model year.

Waiting until someone orders a car, then building and delivering it is by far the most efficient -- huge inventories cost huge money. I won't be holding my breath, though that's pretty much what goes on in Europe.

Here in the land of instant gratification we deserve what we get.