Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

robr2

abacomike said:

@ab348‌

It's quite confusing, "ab".  I have never had an experience like that while I was in the business.  It is a way to avoid paying sales tax out of your pocket yet still take the sales tax deduction on your Federal Return.  You end up receiving the OTD price for the new vehicle for your trade.

An example would be when I trade my CLS in to the dealer, the value of the trade is the out-the-door price of the new car.  Obviously there is no sales tax involved here in Florida because you deduct the trade from the price of the car and are taxed on the difference.  But in the case posted about vouchers, some dealers will accept a third party voucher for the car as payment towards the new car which includes the fees and taxes, and will show that your trade paid for those taxes.  

Tax avoidance is a felony in most states and this would be pretty close to committing a crime, but very difficult to prove that collusion took place.

This is my take on this.  If I'm wrong, someone please correct me!

I think it's not a way to to preserve the sales tax credit on your federal return. It's a way to preserve the sales tax credit based on the trade in amount.

A bank draft is a fancy word for a check. It would be made out to the other dealer you are buying from. This way they are buying the car from the other dealer, not from you. Technically, you are still trading it in.

It will work as long as the dealer you are buying from is willing to accept the "draft."

Is it legal? That's up to the lawyers to decide.

BTW Mike - tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Tax evasion isn't. The former is done by smart people, the latter those not so smart.

jayrider

BTW Mike - tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Tax evasion isn't.

Uh- oh --- I "might" be in trouble.

abacomike

@robr2‌ said:

"BTW Mike - tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Tax evasion isn't. The former is done by smart people, the latter those not so smart."

You are correct.  I meant tax evasion.  We all try to avoid paying more taxes by looking for and using tax loopholes.

explorerx4

One of my friends, he knows how to work deals, traded in 2 cars at different dealers, and bought another one in a 3 way deal that got him the sales tax credit on the one he bought.
The salesman at the dealership bough the cars from said he had never seen that transaction before.

In non car news, I had my HVAC, plus water heater replaced today. Everything is good, other than the Wifi isn't working yet.

driver100

robr2 said:

abacomike said:

@ab348‌

It's quite confusing, "ab".  I have never had an experience like that while I was in the business.  It is a way to avoid paying sales tax out of your pocket yet still take the sales tax deduction on your Federal Return.  You end up receiving the OTD price for the new vehicle for your trade.

An example would be when I trade my CLS in to the dealer, the value of the trade is the out-the-door price of the new car.  Obviously there is no sales tax involved here in Florida because you deduct the trade from the price of the car and are taxed on the difference.  But in the case posted about vouchers, some dealers will accept a third party voucher for the car as payment towards the new car which includes the fees and taxes, and will show that your trade paid for those taxes.  

Tax avoidance is a felony in most states and this would be pretty close to committing a crime, but very difficult to prove that collusion took place.

This is my take on this.  If I'm wrong, someone please correct me!

I think it's not a way to to preserve the sales tax credit on your federal return. It's a way to preserve the sales tax credit based on the trade in amount.

A bank draft is a fancy word for a check. It would be made out to the other dealer you are buying from. This way they are buying the car from the other dealer, not from you. Technically, you are still trading it in.

It will work as long as the dealer you are buying from is willing to accept the "draft."

Is it legal? That's up to the lawyers to decide.

BTW Mike - tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Tax evasion isn't. The former is done by smart people, the latter those not so smart.

Excellent explanation....that's the way I see it. This dealer must have had a lawyer instruct them on how to do this legally. You are trading the car in and buying a new one, so you would pay the tax on the difference....in this case the deal involves to separate dealers. Somehow, they can make it into one deal.......clever and it could benefit the consumer because a used Honda is probably worth more if it is sold on a Honda lot.

Here's a question for Mike, something along those lines. If someone is trading in a bmw 535 for an E400, would you keep the bmw for your lot or do you arrange to trade cars with a bmw dealer. It seems to me most people looking for a used bmw first go to a bmw dealer, and might pay more and they can buy an extended warranty if they so desire.

When I traded in my wifes 2008 335 the Audi dealer said he could give me more for it than the bmw dealer, because he wouldn't have to go over it as well, and offer a 3 or 4 year warranty.

stickguy

the deal proposed is legal. Basically, the Honda dealer is given you a buy bid that you can take to the other dealer. The other dealer can offer you the same amount for the trade,or close to it (convenience fee!) sell you a car (for which you get a sales tax credit). All perfectly legal. The selling dealer can then flip the trade on a dealer to dealer sale, for the preset price. again legal and I assume done on a somewhat regular basis. Just not sure they would want the hassle. That, and if a CRV or pilot is so valuable, why not just keep it?

abacomike

@driver100‌

I would keep any clean trade for my used car lot.  It's the only way to make money.  If I sold it to a BMW dealership, they would give me much less than I could get selling it on my lot.  But it must be a clean trade.

driver100

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

I would keep any clean trade for my used car lot.  It's the only way to make money.  If I sold it to a BMW dealership, they would give me much less than I could get selling it on my lot.  But it must be a clean trade.

Thanks for answering.

abacomike

@driver100‌

My my new car was supposed to be at the port yesterday, but the ship was late getting in due to weather.  Supposedly it is in Brunswick GA now.

You would think Mercedes USA would have my new car expedited at the port and shipped down to my dealership ASAP.  There are two port installed options they need to attend to - rear spoiler and locking wheel lugs.  But from what I was told from Mercedes is that I won't have the car for 2 weeks.  I think that is outrageous!  If they wanted, I could have the car by Monday orTuesday of next week.  So it would appear they are not living up to their promise.

This could be the end of my relationship with Mercedes.  They have done nothing for me whatsoever.  Like I said, not one contact from Mercedes management here in the USA to apologize for their mistake or offer me anything to make up for that error - build me a car and leave off 2 standard pieces of equipment.

I don't think I could ever bring myself to forgive Mercedes for that!

imidazol97

abacomike said:

ut from what I was told from Mercedes is that I won't have the car for 2 weeks.  I think that is outrageous!

I hope they are going over the car carefully to be sure there are no deviations from the advertised and declared features and options.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

ut from what I was told from Mercedes is that I won't have the car for 2 weeks.  I think that is outrageous!

I hope they are going over the car carefully to be sure there are no deviations from the advertised and declared features and options.

They won't need to - I'll go over that car like Sherlock Holmes looking for a fingerprint on a bowl of jelly.  If I see one little thing out of kilter or a bad seam line, I won't take the car - they can build me another one.

nyccarguy

Well said @stickguy. I think I'll keep our Pilot

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

Well said @stickguy. I think I'll keep our Pilot

Not me. Hondas may be good but the kind of crazy money they go for used is insane. I'd ride that perception straight to the bank.

driver100

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

My my new car was supposed to be at the port yesterday, but the ship was late getting in due to weather.  Supposedly it is in Brunswick GA now.

You would think Mercedes USA would have my new car expedited at the port and shipped down to my dealership ASAP.  There are two port installed options they need to attend to - rear spoiler and locking wheel lugs.  But from what I was told from Mercedes is that I won't have the car for 2 weeks.  I think that is outrageous!  If they wanted, I could have the car by Monday orTuesday of next week.  So it would appear they are not living up to their promise.

This could be the end of my relationship with Mercedes.  They have done nothing for me whatsoever.  Like I said, not one contact from Mercedes management here in the USA to apologize for their mistake or offer me anything to make up for that error - build me a car and leave off 2 standard pieces of equipment.

I don't think I could ever bring myself to forgive Mercedes for that!

That is unfortunate but not surprising. I don't think any car manufacturer cares enough about it's customers to actually do something above and beyond.

I got my windshield fixed at Safelite and they went beyond my expectations. Courteous, fast, excellent service, great warranty. The collision shop too, friendly, fair, on time, excellent work, even washed the car inside and out. They had 15 reviews on Angie's list all A's.

Car companies run on the same principle as airlines and cell phone providers;
We aren't happy unless we can make you unhappy.

And then they wonder why we aren't loyal customers.

driver100

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

I would keep any clean trade for my used car lot.  It's the only way to make money.  If I sold it to a BMW dealership, they would give me much less than I could get selling it on my lot.  But it must be a clean trade.

I just thought of something else. Say I was trading in a bmw for a Mercedes, and the dealer also owned a bmw store. Do you think he could get more for the bmw if he transferred it to the bmw store? Do they do that sort of thing?

robr2

driver100 said:

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

I would keep any clean trade for my used car lot.  It's the only way to make money.  If I sold it to a BMW dealership, they would give me much less than I could get selling it on my lot.  But it must be a clean trade.

I just thought of something else. Say I was trading in a bmw for a Mercedes, and the dealer also owned a bmw store. Do you think he could get more for the bmw if he transferred it to the bmw store? Do they do that sort of thing?

I'm guessing it would probably be easier to sell the BMW at the BMW store.

A local dealer here that has both stores (ok he has a total of 52 stores). He keeps the bulk of his used higher end cars at the respective brand stores. You might find a couple of Audi/Acura/BMW/Lexus/MB at his other brands stores but none that could be certified.

Before he bought the local Audi/Porsche dealer, the previous owners only kept used cars from those brands that they could certify. Everything else went off to auction including higher end brands. They never had anything but certified Audis and Porsches at that location. For instance, there is a nice 2009 C300 at the local Honda store but is has 112K miles on it.

abacomike

@driver100‌

Yes!  When I traded my Lexus GS 350 in 2013 for a 2014 E350, they transported the car to their Lexus dealership in Palm Beach.  It sold right away.  I would do the same if I was in the business and we owned a BMW dealership.

These huge dealership holdings (AutoNation, Penske, Berkshire Hathaway, etc.) are the future of the automobile business in this country.  

dino001

abacomike said:

@ab348‌

Tax avoidance is a felony in most states and this would be pretty close to committing a crime, but very difficult to prove that collusion took place.

This is my take on this.  If I'm wrong, someone please correct me!

Tax avoidance is legal. Tax EVASION is illegal. Tax avoidance is using whatever is allowed, however arcane or bizarre it could be, to lower your tax liability, regardless of motivation or other factors. What you cannot do, is use bogus, or unapproved means of sheltering. Can't speak to the particulars of this case. I suspect it is legal, otherwise the dealer's lawyers would not allow it. Just not worth the risk for a couple of thousands bucks.

dino001

Mike, I'm sorry to hear about your disappointment. Are you sure this is all Mercedes, not say government officials taking their time to clear customs? Remember port is a border crossing, it is governed by its own logic, not transparent to us, simpletons.

To be honest, two weeks sound just right to me, considering the scale of things. It may take them a week to find the car on the lot . I understand your frustration, but I'm basically positive unless you want to jump onto a bicycle, you'll have to deal with smaller or bigger issues with all of those guys. If Lexus or Mercedes can't make you happy, I really don't know who can. Just like Driver said, auto manufacturers have a different definition of customer satisfaction - as long as there are no riots and those bogus surveys come with "all tens", they think they are doing their job.

BTW, I just would like to see a survey coming from MB to your house. If they took it seriously, they'd probably disband operations in North America altogether

qbrozen

driver100 said:

I just thought of something else. Say I was trading in a bmw for a Mercedes, and the dealer also owned a bmw store. Do you think he could get more for the bmw if he transferred it to the bmw store? Do they do that sort of thing?

Absolutely. If its a nice car, they would call over to their BMW store and see what they'd be willing to buy the car for. It would be better for you and for their network as a whole.

stickguy

That port facility is such a huge, finely tuned logistical dance, plucking one car out of the middle to jump the line could be a nightmare for them. Usually they estimated high anyway so could be less. Plus they left you with a really nice non-depreciating loaner!

houdini1

abacomike said:

@driver100‌

Yes!  When I traded my Lexus GS 350 in 2013 for a 2014 E350, they transported the car to their Lexus dealership in Palm Beach.  It sold right away.  I would do the same if I was in the business and we owned a BMW dealership.

These huge dealership holdings (AutoNation, Penske, Berkshire Hathaway, etc.) are the future of the automobile business in this country.  

Mike, I remember you trading the GS 350 rather quickly, but I don't remember why. Why the trade so soon?

nyccarguy

He had an issue with the tires being out of round or unbalanced. Terrible vibrations IIRC. Multiple trips to the dealer to have the tires rotated and balanced, even an alignment couldn't fix Mike's GS' problems.

abacomike

@houdini1‌

Nyccarguy said aid it all!  Lexus could not and did not solve the problem so I went back to Mercedes quickly!

as for those posters who responded to my "expedite" post, Mercedes originally promised me they would expedite delivery to my dealer ASAP!  Well, they promised the world and delivered nothing!!!  They said as soon as the car came off the boat, it would be immediately transported to the dealer.  So Mercedes lied to me just to solve the immediate problem of them producing a car without standard safety features.  I guess the wanted to avoid paying a hefty fine to the Feds.

isellhondas

That Honda store was right about the market on used CRVs and Pilots.

Especially CRVs. Our buyer would pay WELL above wholesale book when he could find a nice one. They go crazy at auction.

I didn't understand the tax situation either but it sounds pretty murky to say the least.

A "draft" is nothing more than a check with strings attached. No smart store would take one I wouldn't think.

henryn

isellhondas said:

That Honda store was right about the market on used CRVs and Pilots.

Especially CRVs. Our buyer would pay WELL above wholesale book when he could find a nice one. They go crazy at auction.

I didn't understand the tax situation either but it sounds pretty murky to say the least.

A "draft" is nothing more than a check with strings attached. No smart store would take one I wouldn't think.

I think the term "draft" is pretty murky. Unless I'm getting a kickback from captive finance, I always go with my credit union. I tell the finance person at the dealership that I am pre-approved, give him a business card from the loan officer at my credit union, and they "draft" the money from the credit union.

I have heard that term used by both the dealerships, and the credit union. I have no idea how they actually transfer the funds, and don't really care as long as it works and causes me no problems or extra work.

On the Honda values, I think the CR-V is an excellent vehicle to buy new and keep trading back every 2 to 3 years. The depreciation is down close to zero, especially if you buy at the end of the model year and get a closeout deal. If you check the 2014 CR-V Prices Paid forum here at Edmunds, you will see people (multiple people, in different parts of the country) buying the last of the leftover 2014s for $2,000 under invoice, or even less. That same car, if you take care of it and don't wreck it, will be worth very, very close to what you paid 2 years from now.

dino001

abacomike said:

@houdini1‌

Nyccarguy said aid it all!   as for those posters who responded to my "expedite" post, Mercedes originally promised me they would expedite delivery to my dealer ASAP!  Well, they promised the world and delivered nothing!!!.

You don't know that. "P" Stands for "possible", Mike. You don't exactly know what IS possible. You may think you know what "possible" is, but there are much bigger forces. Again, to me such a big facility, so many different people involved, many of whom do not work (not even indirectly) for Mercedes... My experience of dealing with large entities tells me the more you try to make them move faster, the slower they often get.

I can see your frustration, but I also think some of that is really self-imposed. Also I'll ask again - knowing your patterns, who are you going to buy your next car in a year or two from now? Cadillac? Lexus? BMW? Audi? You (or somebody you know) have had some sour experiences with every one of those guys, or you didn't like their product. Perhaps Kia, or Hyundai then?

robr2

dino001 said:

abacomike said:

@houdini1‌

Nyccarguy said aid it all!   as for those posters who responded to my "expedite" post, Mercedes originally promised me they would expedite delivery to my dealer ASAP!  Well, they promised the world and delivered nothing!!!.

You don't know that. "P" Stands for "possible", Mike. You don't exactly know what IS possible. You may think you know what "possible" is, but there are much bigger forces. Again, to me such a big facility, so many different people involved, many of whom do not work (not even indirectly) for Mercedes... My experience of dealing with large entities tells me the more you try to make them move faster, the slower they often get.

I can see your frustration, but I also think some of that is really self-imposed. Also I'll ask again - knowing your patterns, who are you going to buy your next car in a year or two from now? Cadillac? Lexus? BMW? Audi? You (or somebody you know) have had some sour experiences with every one of those guys, or you didn't like their product. Perhaps Kia, or Hyundai then?

I agree with you.

Mike - you need to sit back and take some deep breaths. You are starting to sound like there is some conspiracy by MB against you. Keep in mind that you are dealing with what I like to call a "First World Problem." Put it in perspective - it's a car. A new $50K car. It's not a kidney. It's not a child in a war zone. It's not persecution by an evil dictator. It's steel and plastic and rubber and right now you have a pretty nice one. There would be millions of people willing to switch places with you in a heartbeat if this was their biggest problem.

Peace Out.

graphicguy

abacomike said:

@houdini1‌

Nyccarguy said aid it all!  Lexus could not and did not solve the problem so I went back to Mercedes quickly!

as for those posters who responded to my "expedite" post, Mercedes originally promised me they would expedite delivery to my dealer ASAP!  Well, they promised the world and delivered nothing!!!  They said as soon as the car came off the boat, it would be immediately transported to the dealer.  So Mercedes lied to me just to solve the immediate problem of them producing a car without standard safety features.  I guess the wanted to avoid paying a hefty fine to the Feds.

Mike...here's the good news. You have a very nice car you can keep for a little while longer. Then, you can make up your mind on what else you might want, and take your time doing it....with no pressure.

Lots of mighty nice cars out there right now. I got to drive a CTS V-Sport last week that my dealer let me have a spin in. MERCY....what a very fast, great handling, very nice car. Don't remember if you gave that a look or not.

Aside from all the Audi issues that have been reported around here, the S7 is getting rave reviews in the trade rags. Might be worth a look.

My BMW dealer seems to be sending me daily emails reminding me how good their deals are right now.....maybe a 7 series?

Lots of options to do something, or to do nothing and keep driving a very nice car that's already sitting in your driveway.....no stress involved.

isellhondas

It's called "setting the customer up"

And that's what I always did.

If I sold an incoming car that I knew would be arriving in a week, I would always tell my customers that it would probably be 10-12 days. When I called five days later to tell them
their car had arrived they wee always very happy.

Some other salespeople wouldn't do that and they were constantly being bugged by phone calls..

" Has my car arrived yet...you SAID five or six days and it's been SEVEN" Etc...

That Mercedes store should have set Mike up like I used to.

I didn't need the stress and I had happy customers.

mako1a

My local Ford dealer is known for holding to his price, but this has become ridiculous.
Just checked his web site to view leftovers and I find a NEW 2011 Fusion. Still holding out for full price.
huffonline.com/new/Ford/2011-Ford-Fusion-2a6293cb0a0a00de3f9ec135b139dab7.htm

Mr_Shiftright

You'd think he would be tired of singing happy birthday to it.

mako1a said:

My local Ford dealer is known for holding to his price, but this has become ridiculous.
Just checked his web site to view leftovers and I find a NEW 2011 Fusion. Still holding out for full price.
huffonline.com/new/Ford/2011-Ford-Fusion-2a6293cb0a0a00de3f9ec135b139dab7.htm

graphicguy

mako1a said:

My local Ford dealer is known for holding to his price, but this has become ridiculous.
Just checked his web site to view leftovers and I find a NEW 2011 Fusion. Still holding out for full price.
huffonline.com/new/Ford/2011-Ford-Fusion-2a6293cb0a0a00de3f9ec135b139dab7.htm

Only hurting himself by doing that. Of any business that has to be price competitive, the car biz probably ranks right at the top.

ab348

That dealer also has a 2012 Impala and a pair of 2013 Veranos, all new, still in stock.

abacomike

Just got a call from my son, Justin.  The results of his MRI Tuesday showed a 1.5 millimeter reduction in size of his malignant brain tumor thanks to the radiation treatments.  The oncologist wants to add several more additional treatments to hopefully shrink the tumor out of existence.

The only problem is the severe side effects of these very intense radiation treatments. But living with those side effects is far and away better than the alternative.

Thanks for all your prayers for Justin - keep them coming! 

stickguy

smaller is good. Helps that he was otherwise young and healthy and strong. I know from experience that treatments can be worse than the disease (at least in the short term).

Hope it continues to shrink away.

abacomike

stickguy said:

smaller is good. Helps that he was otherwise young and healthy and strong. I know from experience that treatments can be worse than the disease (at least in the short term). Hope it continues to shrink away.

Thanks, Stick.

houdini1

abacomike said:

Just got a call from my son, Justin.  The results of his MRI Tuesday showed a 1.5 millimeter reduction in size of his malignant brain tumor thanks to the radiation treatments.  The oncologist wants to add several more additional treatments to hopefully shrink the tumor out of existence.

The only problem is the severe side effects of these very intense radiation treatments. But living with those side effects is far and away better than the alternative.

Thanks for all your prayers for Justin - keep them coming! 

Mike, that is simply wonderful news. Have a cocktail for me. We will keep praying that all works out.

ab348

A little over a month in with the ATS and thought I would post some impressions.

I absolutely love the car so far. It is extremely tight and solid, not a rattle or a buzz. Handling and steering continue to impress. I find myself driving much more aggressively than before; in a way it takes me back 25 years to when I had my MR2 and then the GTI - not necessarily a bad thing, but something I will need to watch. Yesterday I was driving home from a trip to the doctor and got it up to 140km/h (about 85 mph) on a short stretch of expressway just before my exit. Effortless. The power is subtle - in typical driving it seems fairly sedate, but if you put your foot into it you get pushed back in the seat. If it is in Sport mode that is more noticeable.

The colors continue to make me happy. The Red Obsession paint looks wonderful and coordinates well with the black interior. While I have not been a fan of black interiors previously I must say that I am coming to like it. I am enjoying CUE although the learning curve is very steep. I was able to get it to respond to voice commands when playing music from my iPhone the other day - "play Bruce Springsteen" I said, and it did. But I couldn't figure out how to get it back to playing the rest of the music library after a while without shutting everything off! I have begun to enjoy using the phone as my music source in the car, and even made my first iTunes purchases to add to the selections available.

No real negatives to report, but a couple of things to keep an eye on - some of the outside window moldings seem to have some sort of deposit on them and it seems unaffected by application of car wax. Whatever it is, is stubborn. Also, a couple of times when I have started the car after it has sat for a day or two, I thought I had seen some smoke drifting past in the low sun. It is not consistent and it could be vapor I suppose, but I am curious and will be more attentive over the next while.

All in all, I am really enjoying it. I had an acquaintance in it last weekend and after she got home her friend texted me to say that she had said she really liked it and wanted to drive it because she thought it was hot! It has been nearly 30 years since a girl thought my car was hot!
-

oldfarmer50

mako1a said:

My local Ford dealer is known for holding to his price, but this has become ridiculous.
Just checked his web site to view leftovers and I find a NEW 2011 Fusion. Still holding out for full price.
huffonline.com/new/Ford/2011-Ford-Fusion-2a6293cb0a0a00de3f9ec135b139dab7.htm

Is that the original MSRP? Sounds just plain nuts.

On the other hand a local screamer dealer is touting a big supply of 2013 Hyundais for $3000 off MSRP like that is some kind of earth shattering bargain.

abacomike

@ab348‌

So nice to hear that you continue to keep falling in love with your new ATS every time you drive it.  I felt the same thing with my '66 Fire Engine Red GTO 4-speed stick.  I know the feeling AB, I know the feeling!

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

Just got a call from my son, Justin.  The results of his MRI Tuesday showed a 1.5 millimeter reduction in size of his malignant brain tumor thanks to the radiation treatments.  The oncologist wants to add several more additional treatments to hopefully shrink the tumor out of existence.

The only problem is the severe side effects of these very intense radiation treatments. But living with those side effects is far and away better than the alternative.

Thanks for all your prayers for Justin - keep them coming! 

Ditto the other guys. Sounds like good news.

abacomike

Just keep up with prayers - they have been heard by our Lord!

stickguy

Ab, between you and graphicguy, I am kinda sorry (or maybe should be glad!) that I didn't shop at the Caddy dealer too. Next time, for sure.

driver100

abacomike said:

Just keep up with prayers - they have been heard by our Lord!

Mike, very good news..........hope things keep getting better and better.

driver100

ab348 said:

A little over a month in with the ATS and thought I would post some impressions.

All in all, I am really enjoying it. I had an acquaintance in it last weekend and after she got home her friend texted me to say that she had said she really liked it and wanted to drive it because she thought it was hot! It has been nearly 30 years since a girl thought my car was hot!
-

Thanks for the update ab. You were a little bit hesitant about going for the Caddie at first if I remember correctly, but you went for it and it seems that you are really enjoying it.

Sometimes you have to take a bit of a risk, to get a reward. You did it, and you are enjoying it.
Good for you!

venture

abacomike said:

Just keep up with prayers - they have been heard by our Lord!

Great news Mike.

roadburner

Just keep up with prayers - they have been heard by our Lord!

nyccarguy

Fantastic news Mike! Thanks again for keepin us updated

jwilliams2

Mike, good to hear Justin is improving. I am hoping and praying for his full recovery. I know too well the side effects of cancer treatments, and agree that they sure beat the alternative.