Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

driver100

As global auto sales slow after a decade of growth, carmakers are girding for a deeper downturn by slashing payrolls.

From China to the U.K., Germany, Canada and the U.S., companies have announced at least 38,000 job cuts in the past six months.

It may be just a beginning: Daimler AG’s departing chief executive officer, Dieter Zetsche, on Wednesday warned sweeping cost reductions are ahead to prepare for unprecedented industry upheaval.

“The industry is right now staring down the barrel of what we think is going to be a significant downturn,” Bank of America Merrill Lynch analyst John Murphy said at a forum in Detroit on Tuesday, adding that the pace of decline in China “is a real surprise.”

Carmakers are cutting shifts or closing factories altogether across the globe, but the culling goes beyond that. Several recent rounds also target salaried workers, reflecting sluggish sales in the world’s two largest auto markets -- China and the U.S. -- and the pivot auto companies are making toward a future of electric and self-driving vehicles. Ford Motor Co. said Monday it will eliminate 7,000 jobs, or 10% of its white-collar workforce worldwide.

The downturn could be exacerbated by higher tariffs threatened by the U.S., which a trade group representing a dozen of the largest domestic and foreign carmakers warned could put 700,000 American jobs at risk. Toyota Motor Corp. and the Japanese car industry condemned the possible levies in strongly worded statements in recent days.*********************************************

Not looking promising, Mike isn't buying a new car soon, Oldfarmer still likes his Mustang, my car has less than 20k miles on it, GGs looking but not too serious, Snake is going to keep his Sebring going for another year, dino's car is pretty new still, Stick ain't ready to buy yet. Who is in the market?

oldfarmer50

suydam said:

imidazol97 said:

snakeweasel said:

just stopped for breakfast, here is a picture of the parking lot.

That's a great sign. The Amish and Old Order folks know good food!

It's just like in the 60s/70s, when traveling stop where the trucks were stopping.

As long as you like your food made with plenty of lard in it!

It’s the way to a man’s heart. “He’ll die at 50 but his love will be true”.

https://youtu.be/egCJwXOT890

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

As global auto sales slow after a decade of growth, carmakers are girding for a deeper downturn by slashing payrolls.

From China to the U.K., Germany, Canada and the U.S., companies have announced at least 38,000 job cuts in the past six months.

It may be just a beginning: Daimler AG’s departing chief executive officer, Dieter Zetsche, on Wednesday warned sweeping cost reductions are ahead to prepare for unprecedented industry upheaval.

“The industry is right now staring down the barrel of what we think is going to be a significant downturn,” Bank of America Merrill Lynch analyst John Murphy said at a forum in Detroit on Tuesday, adding that the pace of decline in China “is a real surprise.”

Carmakers are cutting shifts or closing factories altogether across the globe, but the culling goes beyond that. Several recent rounds also target salaried workers, reflecting sluggish sales in the world’s two largest auto markets -- China and the U.S. -- and the pivot auto companies are making toward a future of electric and self-driving vehicles. Ford Motor Co. said Monday it will eliminate 7,000 jobs, or 10% of its white-collar workforce worldwide.

The downturn could be exacerbated by higher tariffs threatened by the U.S., which a trade group representing a dozen of the largest domestic and foreign carmakers warned could put 700,000 American jobs at risk. Toyota Motor Corp. and the Japanese car industry condemned the possible levies in strongly worded statements in recent days.*********************************************

Not looking promising, Mike isn't buying a new car soon, Oldfarmer still likes his Mustang, my car has less than 20k miles on it, GGs looking but not too serious, Snake is going to keep his Sebring going for another year, dino's car is pretty new still, Stick ain't ready to buy yet. Who is in the market?

You forget that I just bought a new 2019. I’m doing my part to hold up the world economy.

driver100

I did forget.....you just got your Soul.
You are doing your bit....sorry, seniors moment brain malfunction.

explorerx4

I'm always in the market. Will probably take off most of the summer from that.

driver100

I saw one of these today and I really like the styling. Probably appeals to baby boomers or older...looks a little retro. I like that it has a very original look, yet, they still made it modern with large windows. Surprised I had to go back to 2008 to find one with that body style. I know of two people who owned these, both had lots of expensive repairs, one ended up getting an Avalon next time and one got a Lexus. Good Plan B cars.

imidazol97

suydam said:

imidazol97 said:

snakeweasel said:

just stopped for breakfast, here is a picture of the parking lot.

That's a great sign. The Amish and Old Order folks know good food!

It's just like in the 60s/70s, when traveling stop where the trucks were stopping.

As long as you like your food made with plenty of lard in it!

You''ve been there! That's what makes it good. Butter, too.

Apple pie with real pie crust with lots of fats! Ice cream on top.

ruking1

driver100 said:

As global auto sales slow after a decade of growth, carmakers are girding for a deeper downturn by slashing payrolls.

From China to the U.K., Germany, Canada and the U.S., companies have announced at least 38,000 job cuts in the past six months.

It may be just a beginning: Daimler AG’s departing chief executive officer, Dieter Zetsche, on Wednesday warned sweeping cost reductions are ahead to prepare for unprecedented industry upheaval.

“The industry is right now staring down the barrel of what we think is going to be a significant downturn,” Bank of America Merrill Lynch analyst John Murphy said at a forum in Detroit on Tuesday, adding that the pace of decline in China “is a real surprise.”

Carmakers are cutting shifts or closing factories altogether across the globe, but the culling goes beyond that. Several recent rounds also target salaried workers, reflecting sluggish sales in the world’s two largest auto markets -- China and the U.S. -- and the pivot auto companies are making toward a future of electric and self-driving vehicles. Ford Motor Co. said Monday it will eliminate 7,000 jobs, or 10% of its white-collar workforce worldwide.

The downturn could be exacerbated by higher tariffs threatened by the U.S., which a trade group representing a dozen of the largest domestic and foreign carmakers warned could put 700,000 American jobs at risk. Toyota Motor Corp. and the Japanese car industry condemned the possible levies in strongly worded statements in recent days.*********************************************

Not looking promising, Mike isn't buying a new car soon, Oldfarmer still likes his Mustang, my car has less than 20k miles on it, GGs looking but not too serious, Snake is going to keep his Sebring going for another year, dino's car is pretty new still, Stick ain't ready to buy yet. Who is in the market?

The brouhaha should really come as no surprise with the several decades long vilification of ICE cars & government/s stepping on the scales of EV market sales. Both are overblown to downright false. The favored EV cars in many ways are of greater disadvantage, just as hybrids are/were. They are high maintenance, i.e. have to plug them in more times than one fuel station trip. unreliable, not durable. EV vehicle “leak” energy. They are wildly more costly, to consumers (higher prices/costs can = less unit sales), taxpayers & going forward infrastructure/s.

So-called yearly “record sales “have been in both markets US app 17.5 M and the China app 18.4 M. Almost NO article dealing with the coming sales “CARpocalypses” gives out real number projections.

It is unknown what each’s yearly used car markets were.

To wit, during the 2008/2009 financial crash, hindsight indicates a US market yearly sales of 10.5 M units. It was obvious in terms of the records, 7.5 million USA or so people did NOT buy new cars off of record highs.

On the other hand, I bought a new 2009 VW Jetta TDI. Not only were the (VW) dealers wanting to make a to any (great) deal/s, the IRS gave a $1,300 tax credit (= to app a $4,663 tax DEDUCTION) for that TDI (up to 60,000 units). The percentage price of money made it a no brainer to borrow & NOT pay... cash. We put app 120,000 miles on the VW before a great thing happened. This, in turn made even greater things happen. 🤑

To me, EV’s aren’t ready for prime time. So any new ICE car purchase should be able to delay an EV car purchase for easily 11.5 years. It can be no surprise that kWh rates are RISING. Here in NORCAL one can not reasonably expect a bankruptcy gas & electric company to come off of already astronomical $ .37 cents per kWh rates.

So for example a gas hybrid (Toyota Prius) 2004 (in my mind) took approximately 10 years to 15 years to prove itself in the marketplace. Toyota also committed untold billions of $’s in R&D to get hybrid to markets & countless redesigns. The problem for a number of years to now is that hybrids are considered passé.🎭 I understand Toyota “Prius” sales are down precipitously. It casts severe doubt on the hybrids efficacy & of the hybrids in other models, such as the Toyota Highlander H, Lexus RX350 H, etc,..com. Even Edmunds.com indicated the hybrids $’s extra premiums are not worth the fuel savings, no matter how outstanding those products are.

snakeweasel

stickguy said:

Minnesota is basically part of Canada anyway, so you can count her. TJC, we love the pourhouse. Go there at least once a month on our Friday evening rounds. even though it is a real pain to get over there at rush hour, it is worth the trip.

IIRC there was once a movement to give part of Minnesota, the northwest angle, to Canada. It fell through but I cannot remember why.

snakeweasel

imidazol97 said:

just stopped for breakfast, here is a picture of the parking lot.

That's a great sign. The Amish and Old Order folks know good food! It's just like in the 60s/70s, when traveling stop where the trucks were stopping.

We got their buffet and the food was so bad that I only went back 5 times.

berri

Geez, you probably bankrupted those poor Amish

stickguy

I might get thrown out of CCBA. earliest I get a punch is late 2021, and it is possible it ends up being in 2022! That seems like such a long time for now.

driver100

On ABC News tonight they said this holiday weekend could be a great time to buy a new car...SUV or truck. You can save $10000 on a Sorrento and $12000 on a Tahoe. The reason, new car inventories are high - sales are slow.
https://youtu.be/V5YFGJ5rjE0

ruking1

Indeed those sentiments have long been true for any holiday, but especially for MD.

henryn

driver100 said:

On ABC News tonight they said this holiday weekend could be a great time to buy a new car...SUV or truck. You can save $10000 on a Sorrento and $12000 on a Tahoe. The reason, new car inventories are high - sales are slow.

To me, the Tahoe looks to be overpriced by about $25k, so taking $12k off doesn't get you into the ball park.

And pretty much any day of the week, you can get $15k off sticker on a new Silverado.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

On ABC News tonight they said this holiday weekend could be a great time to buy a new car...SUV or truck. You can save $10000 on a Sorrento and $12000 on a Tahoe. The reason, new car inventories are high - sales are slow.
https://youtu.be/V5YFGJ5rjE0

I think at the end of any month is a good time to buy.

roadburner

driver100 said:

On ABC News tonight they said this holiday weekend could be a great time to buy a new car...SUV or truck. You can save $10000 on a Sorrento and $12000 on a Tahoe. The reason, new car inventories are high - sales are slow.
https://youtu.be/V5YFGJ5rjE0

The only downside I see is that you end up owning a Sorento or a Tahoe.

roadburner

tjc78 said:

stickguy said:

gorgeous day. Took advantage to mow the lawn since work was dead. Tomorrow at the shore should be nice. I get to work the street fair in Collingswood. at least weather will be good.

Just came from over that way. Had dinner at the Pour House after the movie.  

FWIW we saw Avengers Endgame.  The hype is real.  What a movie. I’m not really into the comic book thing overall but very entertaining none the less. 

@graphicguy and @roadburner I can’t wait to get this one fired up on the home system.  Tons of great sound effects.  

I'm jazzed for Godzilla KOTM. Cannot wait!

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

driver100 said:

On ABC News tonight they said this holiday weekend could be a great time to buy a new car...SUV or truck. You can save $10000 on a Sorrento and $12000 on a Tahoe. The reason, new car inventories are high - sales are slow.
https://youtu.be/V5YFGJ5rjE0

I think at the end of any month is a good time to buy.

End of the month is usually a good time to buy, but right now is particularly good. For some reason car sales are off, inventory is high, competition is keen....the stars are aligned. The only thing is, it could get even better in another month or two.

stickguy

the real problem is, i don't need a car!

driver100

stickguy said:

the real problem is, i don't need a car!

......at these prices, you should rationalize that you do need want a car!

stickguy

I am 5 months into a lease on a fancy car. I am out of the market on that one.

But, if someone wanted to make me a Godfather offer on the RDX as a trade, well, the wife might go for that. Even though it isn't in the budget yet. I have that on the list as a reward for when the rest of the HELOC is paid off.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

I am 5 months into a lease on a fancy car. I am out of the market on that one.

But, if someone wanted to make me a Godfather offer on the RDX as a trade, well, the wife might go for that. Even though it isn't in the budget yet. I have that on the list as a reward for when the rest of the HELOC is paid off.

I'm not in the market either. Afterall my '15 Genny only has around 8500 miles on it but if a real luxo dealership, like say Mercedes, wanted to move a car, this might be a good time to "move on up to the East side".

jmonroe

snakeweasel

berri said:

Geez, you probably bankrupted those poor Amish

Just think of what I did to Hilton with their free breakfast brunch today. 

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

the real problem is, i don't need a car!

......at these prices, you should rationalize that you do need want a car!

That may be true but I am spending too much on wine this weekend. 7 more wineries to go. 

imidazol97

stickguy said:

the real problem is, i don't need a car!

I don't think that stops part of the good folks here on Edmunds from buying a different car.

imidazol97

stickguy said:

I am 5 months into a lease on a fancy car. I am out of the market on that one. .

jmonroe1 said:

I'm not in the market either.

We've heard that before here...

stickguy

Professional question for Bradd. My daughter and her BF are buying a house. They want to add a 2nd bathroom in the basement, but from looking at the pictures, it seems that the plumbing drains go out the side of the foundation, not under the slab. So, it will require a tank and pump system to hoist the waste and water up to get into the line.

can you recommend a particular system for this, and what should they expect to have to spend on it (not including all the usual plumbing work)?

oldfarmer50

Just finished a marathon of car washing. Washed the PT so I could put it away until I give it to my son in the fall. Washed the convertible and the Kia because the birds were busy with them. Cheated and took the Mustang to the car wash but the brushless places always seem to miss spots so I may have to hand wash that one too. Every bone aches.

The trouble with being retired is that you have time to do things but it hurts too much to do most of them.

Oh yeah, I also did some concrete work and cleaned up the basement yesterday. I thought this was a vacation weekend.

One nice thing, I discovered that my company gives you the equivalent of sick time which accrues based on hours worked. This can be used for any reason so I put in for Monday where I normally would lose a day pay because of the holiday. This job just keeps getting better.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

Just finished a marathon of car washing. Washed the PT so I could put it away until I give it to my son in the fall. Washed the convertible and the Kia because the birds were busy with them. Cheated and took the Mustang to the car wash but the brushless places always seem to miss spots so I may have to hand wash that one too. Every bone aches.

Everytime I see a Soul I think about your purchase of a Soul.

graphicguy

@driver100 ....Nothing is currently on my radar except the Acura TLX S-Type. Don’t expect to see that for another year. That said, if something catches my fancy (like the Kia Stinger GT), hard to tell what I might do. 2 years in, I couldn’t be happier with my Acura TLX A-Spec, however.

Problem with Tahoes, as others mentioned, they are way overpriced. It would probably take another $10K off in addition to the $15K rebate they currently have. That might not get it done, either. You can get a Toyota 4 Runner, Volvo XC90, Acura MDX, Audi Q7, Kia Telluride, etc for less. And, as much as I loved my Tahoe, the afore mentioned vehicles would be better vehicles.

@roadburner ....I just bought a barely used 18” sub from a now defunct company. It’s a beast. Will probably get it hooked up and dialed in today and tomorrow to see how it does. My son took me to ENDGAME when it first came out. Agree with you assessment of the movie....WOW! I think my new sub is meant for a movie like that.

dino001

stickguy said:

the real problem is, i don't need a car!

Neither do I. I saw this slowdown coming two years ago, but decided I wanted my GC regardless. The sales would have peaked even sooner, but Harvey’s floods in Texas gave the industry stay of the execution. But the cracks were visible. It all started with sedan sales drops, SUVs were still accelerating, but everything finally had to go. There was no way 18 million per year was sustainable.

With my luck, by the time I need a new one, the balance will be restored, either by lower supply, or by demand pickup. Even if I got a superdeal on the new car, the trade would likely take the savings away. But it’s fine, I buy at my own pace.

stickguy

one downside to leasing is, of course, you don't really get to pick the time to buy. Outside of a narrow window if they are doing a pull-ahead, but that keeps you locked into a certain brand.

I probably know in a week or so if my father gets approval to drive again. If not, I may be inheriting a slightly used Sentra. Depending on the terms of the lease, might make more sense to keep it and use it instead of paying to give it back. Not that I need to use it, but my wife could commute with it. plus my daughter is moving soon and will have a 90-100 mile per day RT commute, so could let her put 10K a a year on it to keep miles off her car.

driver100

stickguy"I am 5 months into a lease on a fancy car. I am out of the market on that one. .

"jmonroe1" I'm not in the market either.

imidazol97 We've heard that before here...

Where is our friend who wanted the NISMO, now is the time to buy!

qbrozen

driver100 said:

stickguy"I am 5 months into a lease on a fancy car. I am out of the market on that one. . "jmonroe1" I'm not in the market either. imidazol97 We've heard that before here...

Where is our friend who wanted the NISMO, now is the time to buy!

He took his ball and went home

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Just finished a marathon of car washing. Washed the PT so I could put it away until I give it to my son in the fall. Washed the convertible and the Kia because the birds were busy with them. Cheated and took the Mustang to the car wash but the brushless places always seem to miss spots so I may have to hand wash that one too. Every bone aches.

Everytime I see a Soul I think about your purchase of a Soul.

I remember when I first saw those Soul hamster commercials I thought “that would be the last car I’d ever buy”.

ab348

qbrozen said:

He took his ball and went home

Ball and chain, I think you mean.

stickguy

I like the soul for some reason. I could drive one. My wife, she would not be seen in it I don't think.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

@driver100 ....Nothing is currently on my radar except the Acura TLX S-Type. Don’t expect to see that for another year. That said, if something catches my fancy (like the Kia Stinger GT), hard to tell what I might do. 2 years in, I couldn’t be happier with my Acura TLX A-Spec, however.

Problem with Tahoes, as others mentioned, they are way overpriced. It would probably take another $10K off in addition to the $15K rebate they currently have. That might not get it done, either. You can get a Toyota 4 Runner, Volvo XC90, Acura MDX, Audi Q7, Kia Telluride, etc for less. And, as much as I loved my Tahoe, the afore mentioned vehicles would be better vehicles.

@roadburner ....I just bought a barely used 18” sub from a now defunct company. It’s a beast. Will probably get it hooked up and dialed in today and tomorrow to see how it does. My son took me to ENDGAME when it first came out. Agree with you assessment of the movie....WOW! I think my new sub is meant for a movie like that.

Very strange that Ford is dumping sedans in favor of SUVs but manufactures (Ford included I assume) are discounting them $15k or more. Seems like going in a bad direction to me.

henryn

I almost bought a Soul, back about 2 or 2.5 years ago. Drives okay, priced reasonably (read cheap), I fit in it, it fits in the parking garage. And I am not afraid to be seen in one. Heck, I almost bought a Juke once upon a time!

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

@driver100 ....Nothing is currently on my radar except the Acura TLX S-Type. Don’t expect to see that for another year. That said, if something catches my fancy (like the Kia Stinger GT), hard to tell what I might do. 2 years in, I couldn’t be happier with my Acura TLX A-Spec, however.

Problem with Tahoes, as others mentioned, they are way overpriced. It would probably take another $10K off in addition to the $15K rebate they currently have. That might not get it done, either. You can get a Toyota 4 Runner, Volvo XC90, Acura MDX, Audi Q7, Kia Telluride, etc for less. And, as much as I loved my Tahoe, the afore mentioned vehicles would be better vehicles.

@roadburner ....I just bought a barely used 18” sub from a now defunct company. It’s a beast. Will probably get it hooked up and dialed in today and tomorrow to see how it does. My son took me to ENDGAME when it first came out. Agree with you assessment of the movie....WOW! I think my new sub is meant for a movie like that.

Very strange that Ford is dumping sedans in favor of SUVs but manufactures (Ford included I assume) are discounting them $15k or more. Seems like going in a bad direction to me.

One of the car makers...I think Toyota said they would keep making sedans because you never know if the market would change.
I'd have to look at the charts again but I believe almost everyones sales are down, but two exceptions seemed to be Toyota and Kia, and I think it is because they make sedans that offer a lot of car for the price....and there still is demand in that segment.

driver100

Just noticed my E has 15000 miles on it, Mrs D's GLK though just past the warranty period has 18000 miles on it, and the C has 28000 miles on it. Hard to justify buying a new one except 2 out of 3 are out of warranty....ha ha

When we took the GLK in for the super expensive A service on May 16th the advisor said too bad you didn't bring it in by May 9th, then you could have still bought an extended warranty. Yeh sure, an extended warranty on a car with 18000 miles that goes 4000 miles a year, the warranty time limit will run out long before the car should need a major repair....hopefully.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

@driver100 ....Nothing is currently on my radar except the Acura TLX S-Type. Don’t expect to see that for another year. That said, if something catches my fancy (like the Kia Stinger GT), hard to tell what I might do. 2 years in, I couldn’t be happier with my Acura TLX A-Spec, however.

Problem with Tahoes, as others mentioned, they are way overpriced. It would probably take another $10K off in addition to the $15K rebate they currently have. That might not get it done, either. You can get a Toyota 4 Runner, Volvo XC90, Acura MDX, Audi Q7, Kia Telluride, etc for less. And, as much as I loved my Tahoe, the afore mentioned vehicles would be better vehicles.

@roadburner ....I just bought a barely used 18” sub from a now defunct company. It’s a beast. Will probably get it hooked up and dialed in today and tomorrow to see how it does. My son took me to ENDGAME when it first came out. Agree with you assessment of the movie....WOW! I think my new sub is meant for a movie like that.

Very strange that Ford is dumping sedans in favor of SUVs but manufactures (Ford included I assume) are discounting them $15k or more. Seems like going in a bad direction to me.

.....another thing....if there is a problem with oil supplies, for example a problem with Iran like there is right now....oil prices could rise, and demand for trucks and especially SUVs could fall.....but sedans could be back in favor. Ford could be right, but if they are wrong they will be out of the game completely.

imidazol97

How many oil changes have those cars had? And out of warranty? Time to trade. (he says tongue in cheek.)

GM offers warranty periods that extend out a large number of years for a rather low price on a low maintenance car like my Malibu. I don't even remember how long it goes. I'll have to check on it.

cdnpinhead

oldfarmer50 said:

I remember when I first saw those Soul hamster commercials I thought “that would be the last car I’d ever buy”.

They're all over the place here in AZ, and every time I see one I think "hamster" & "oldfarmer." Clearly a popular vehicle that serves a useful purpose and the damn hamster commercial was pretty catchy too.

houdini2

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Just finished a marathon of car washing. Washed the PT so I could put it away until I give it to my son in the fall. Washed the convertible and the Kia because the birds were busy with them. Cheated and took the Mustang to the car wash but the brushless places always seem to miss spots so I may have to hand wash that one too. Every bone aches.

Everytime I see a Soul I think about your purchase of a Soul.

I remember when I first saw those Soul hamster commercials I thought “that would be the last car I’d ever buy”.

I'm holding out for the Venue. If you get to drive one when they come out, I will expect a review and comparison with the Soul.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

How many oil changes have those cars had? And out of warranty? Time to trade. (he says tongue in cheek.)

GM offers warranty periods that extend out a large number of years for a rather low price on a low maintenance car like my Malibu. I don't even remember how long it goes. I'll have to check on it.

The C and GLK have had one oil change out of warranty.
When it is under warranty it feels like it is for free........it really bothers me to actually pay for an oil change.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

Just noticed my E has 15000 miles on it, Mrs D's GLK though just past the warranty period has 18000 miles on it, and the C has 28000 miles on it. Hard to justify buying a new one except 2 out of 3 are out of warranty....ha ha

When we took the GLK in for the super expensive A service on May 16th the advisor said too bad you didn't bring it in by May 9th, then you could have still bought an extended warranty. Yeh sure, an extended warranty on a car with 18000 miles that goes 4000 miles a year, the warranty time limit will run out long before the car should need a major repair....hopefully.

Ford kept sending me warranty offers which I routinely rejected for the same reason, time would run out long before the mileage. I almost bit when they offered me a 7 year extension with only a 36k additional mileage for $1500. I came close to buying.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

@driver100 ....Nothing is currently on my radar except the Acura TLX S-Type. Don’t expect to see that for another year. That said, if something catches my fancy (like the Kia Stinger GT), hard to tell what I might do. 2 years in, I couldn’t be happier with my Acura TLX A-Spec, however.

Problem with Tahoes, as others mentioned, they are way overpriced. It would probably take another $10K off in addition to the $15K rebate they currently have. That might not get it done, either. You can get a Toyota 4 Runner, Volvo XC90, Acura MDX, Audi Q7, Kia Telluride, etc for less. And, as much as I loved my Tahoe, the afore mentioned vehicles would be better vehicles.

@roadburner ....I just bought a barely used 18” sub from a now defunct company. It’s a beast. Will probably get it hooked up and dialed in today and tomorrow to see how it does. My son took me to ENDGAME when it first came out. Agree with you assessment of the movie....WOW! I think my new sub is meant for a movie like that.

Very strange that Ford is dumping sedans in favor of SUVs but manufactures (Ford included I assume) are discounting them $15k or more. Seems like going in a bad direction to me.

.....another thing....if there is a problem with oil supplies, for example a problem with Iran like there is right now....oil prices could rise, and demand for trucks and especially SUVs could fall.....but sedans could be back in favor. Ford could be right, but if they are wrong they will be out of the game completely.

I’m just hoping that Ford has a contingency plan to bring in sedans from their overseas operations on short notice if things go sideways.

berri

I think right now companies like Toyota and MB have enough sales globally of sedans to keep producing them even if the US market for sedans is shrinking. I don't think D3 really have that advantage.