Yes, a sweet deal indeed. Just had Discount Tire install a new set of tires and I guess I better have the timing belt changed and I have a noisy rear strut. Otherwise, this is one sweet ride. Interior leather is like it's never been sat on.
I think Toyota was aftr the Buick crowd. They even made some with a bench front seat in cloth.
It's so quiet I can't believe it. I have gotten so used to our noisy Hondas.
Snake...I don't have the empirical data that you have. But, I gotta say, those who seem to purposely go under the speed limit by a nitceable amount, either on side streets, interstates, or rural routes, do seem to cause more accidents.
Actual data and what it looks like to someone are two different animals. My question is; is it the person going under the speed limit by a "noticeable" amount responsible for the accident or is it the speeder who is impatient and tries to rush around the slower vehicle?
blockquote>
There is a theory that states that drivers education actually creates poorer drivers. The theory states that drivers ed courses teach new drivers the basics of what to do in an emergency situation but doesn't follow through with either follow up instructions and behind the wheel training for such emergencies. This creates overconfident drivers who really lack the skills they think they have so that they drive beyond their capabilities.
I think there is a rule that goes like this: You can make any argument you want to and you will always find someone who will prove you are right.
There is no way someone who doesn't have driving lessons will drive better than someone who takes them.
I have taught driving to high school students and I wouldn't want to see them on the road without lessons.
That rule does apply to other things. As I found out with my business...if you need a creative person to run your business don't get someone with an MBA (SIL). They only know how to do things by the rule book, they only know what they have read. They are not creative. But, I think, knowing how to drive is different.
Yes, a sweet deal indeed. Just had Discount Tire install a new set of tires and I guess I better have the timing belt changed and I have a noisy rear strut. Otherwise, this is one sweet ride. Interior leather is like it's never been sat on.
I think Toyota was aftr the Buick crowd. They even made some with a bench front seat in cloth.
It's so quiet I can't believe it. I have gotten so used to our noisy Hondas.
Out of curiousity why did your neighbors sell it? You don't have to tell if you don't want to.
I could put up with a floaty Buick ride for that kind of price.
Well the very first new car I ever bought was an 81 Mustang, it had no AC. But then again I was living in Kodiak Alaska where a blistering hot summers day would be 70 degrees.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I really judge a used car by the engine. For example I wouldn't buy any Caddy with the Northstar motor. I wouldn't get a Chrysler with the 2.7L 6 unless I knew the oil change history. Probably wouldn't want the old Ford 3.8L head gasket blower either.
Certainly that's not the only thing that matters but if the engine is junk the car will never be fun to drive.
I have owned a total of 4 Cadillacs with the Northstar engine. One of those blew the head gaskets and became worthless, but we had already put 85k miles on her (purchased at 35k, blew head gaskets at 120k), so we got our money’s worth anyway.
One of my brother in laws was given a low mileage(35k miles) Cadillac that he drove back from Florida where is was garaged. The first thing to stand him was brake lines failing, then something electrical. Several years later, he is still driving it.
I purchased a 2006 Cadillac DTS in March of this year. One owner, new car trade in, 35k miles. I have driven 3k miles in 6 months, with zero problems of any kind. I paid $10,800 cash at the dealer (Cadillac dealer).
What can I say, I like Cadillacs! I almost bought a Hyundai Genesis this last time, but while trying to find the right deal on the right car, this Cadillac showed up, and I could not pass it up.
Actually I'd have to qualify my statement about NEVER buying a Northstar. From what I've read GM finally fixed the head gasket problem by 2004 so after that I'd consider one. I like Caddys too. That engine was ahead of it's time in every respect except reliability.
$10.8k for a 35k mile DTS (that's like a Deville, right?) that's a great price.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Well the very first new car I ever bought was an 81 Mustang, it had no AC. But then again I was living in Kodiak Alaska where a blistering hot summers day would be 70 degrees.
My van has no AC. My son's LaSabre has none either but not by design.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yes, a sweet deal indeed. Just had Discount Tire install a new set of tires and I guess I better have the timing belt changed and I have a noisy rear strut. Otherwise, this is one sweet ride. Interior leather is like it's never been sat on.
I think Toyota was aftr the Buick crowd. They even made some with a bench front seat in cloth.
It's so quiet I can't believe it. I have gotten so used to our noisy Hondas.
Out of curiousity why did your neighbors sell it? You don't have to tell if you don't want to.
I could put up with a floaty Buick ride for that kind of price.
The Avalon had been given to their daughter by her grandmother a couple of years ago.
The daughter just graduated (with honors) from Ohio State so as a graduation gift, they bought her a brand new Lexus SUV. nice huh?
The Avalon has been babied, synthetic oil, dealer serviced etc. Their daughter always thought the Avalon was an old person's car and never really liked it.
I was reading in (Fortune?) that the Boeing 717 has become the worlds hottest secondhand jetliner. Never heard of the 717 before but I'm pretty sure I must have flown on the 100-seat Delta operated airline. If that airline was/is so cheap to operate as a regional jet why was production discontinued?
The 717 is a DC-9 made by Boeing after they bought McDonnell Douglas.
It was discontinued because the small 50 seater regional jets became the hot item so they didn't have use for the 717's.
With time, people got tired of the tiny 50 seater regional jets and airlines realized that people liked the bigger jets.
The only way 717's are economical now is due to low oil prices.
Lots of things impacted the B717. TWA started buying them around the time the decision was made to drop it, and Northwest was said to be interested as well. It was too early for Delta replacements. Commuter jets were starting to make larger versions and the A319 was coming out (albeit a bit larger). But another big factor was that the B717 was made at the old McDonnell Douglas Long Beach, CA facility (part of the airport there). But so was the C-17 Globemaster Air Force cargo jet that was catching on with foreign air force buyers too. There was only so much capacity.
Isell, those old Avalon's were nice cars and very well built. The only issue I have is that they are a bit tight in front seat legroom for me, but I'm over 6 feet tall. If it was taken care of, you've got a lot of life left beyond that 95K. People can laugh that it's a Buick, but I've never had problems handling any Toyota on twisty highways. You scored a deal buddy!
How about when the Northstars leaked oil out the back of the engine block requiring a 5000.00 repair?
Often a "Northstar Leak" as the Cadillac Dealers called that would total the car!
Needed maintenance. :grin Like the toyotas with sludge... or other cars with the various things that popped up on them. Ironically, shadetree neighbor just showed me the Sienna as he worked on it with a rubber tube connecting the two parts of the output tube from the oil pump on the bottom of the engine. It has to be replaced with a solid one-piece metal pipe. Replacing it was difficult because of the pipe now being one piece.
I had heard about those tubber tubes on some V6s. Now I've seen one. Can't buy replacement rubber part from toyota: unsafe part theycalled it, but he had to buy it to repair the van for the owner because it wasn't replaced under warranty by toyota. Having a rubber tube that dribbled oil along our road as the van was driven to neighbor's house must have been engineered by the same guy who designed the seal on the Northstar that requires removal of the engine and splitting it in half to get to the leaking seal. I understand that later Northstars don't have that "feature." LOL
A buddy of mine bought a 2002 Intrigue almost new (dealer demo), top of the line, every option possible including the gold package [rolls eyes]. He discovered a similar oil leak as seen in Cadillacs shortly after purchase in his Intrigue's Shortstar V-6, which was based on the Northstar design and was a very nice engine, albeit quite bulky, and one that GM never developed further after introduction.
The dealer did the tear down to fix the leak under warranty and it required the engine to be pulled and a tremendous amount of disassembly. Car was at the shop for a few days. GM lost money on that one. BTW, he still has the car, maybe the nicest Intrigue still around.
Isell, my 2010 Avalon had a rear window screen that went up in drive when turned on or manually standing still. I was getting a speeding ticket and the blue lights were bothering me so I put it up. If yours has that feature don't use it while getting a ticket as the cop really got annoyed by it.
We just bought a Buick from our next door neighbors.
Actually, it has a Toyota nameplate but it sure drives like a Park Avenue.
It's a 2004 Avalon and it runs, drives and looks like a new car. 95,000 babied miles. 2500.00!
It's the XLS model so it has options I have yet to discover. Love it!
I had one of those, the Avalon XLS with moon roof and cassette tape deck . I traded it after 10 years (with much regret) and 65k miles. The dealer offered me $6,895 as trade-in allowance but we finally settled on $8k for a Buick LaCrosse. The dealer later put it on his lot for $12,000 but I don't know what they finally got for it but I am sure it was better than a good deal.
The Avalon's styling was closer to one of those boxy Mercedes models but it was a quiet and refined automobile but not as engaging to drive as the Buick.
Lots of things impacted the B717. TWA started buying them around the time the decision was made to drop it, and Northwest was said to be interested as well. It was too early for Delta replacements. Commuter jets were starting to make larger versions and the A319 was coming out (albeit a bit larger). But another big factor was that the B717 was made at the old McDonnell Douglas Long Beach, CA facility (part of the airport there). But so was the C-17 Globemaster Air Force cargo jet that was catching on with foreign air force buyers too. There was only so much capacity.
Didn't the Brazilian Embraer 100-seat Jet family and the Canadian Bombardier C-Series have a lot to do with the B717 demise as well? These medium range jets have become popular in the US and elsewhere and now the Chinese are entering this market with their own C919.
We just bought a Buick from our next door neighbors.
Actually, it has a Toyota nameplate but it sure drives like a Park Avenue.
It's a 2004 Avalon and it runs, drives and looks like a new car. 95,000 babied miles. 2500.00!
It's the XLS model so it has options I have yet to discover. Love it!
I had one of those, the Avalon XLS with moon roof and cassette tape deck . I traded it after 10 years (with much regret) and 65k miles. The dealer offered me $6,895 as trade-in allowance but we finally settled on $8k for a Buick LaCrosse. The dealer later put it on his lot for $12,000 but I don't know what they finally got for it but I am sure it was better than a good deal.
The Avalon's styling was closer to one of those boxy Mercedes models but it was a quiet and refined automobile but not as engaging to drive as the Buick.
Ours also has a cassette player that I doubt has ever been used along with a six disc CD changer. It does not have that rear shade I don't believe. I think I'll hang on to it as a nice third car. Actully, both of our CRVs are in the garage now and I'm almost always driving the Avalon.
Didn't the Brazilian Embraer 100-seat Jet family and the Canadian Bombardier C-Series have a lot to do with the B717 demise as well? These medium range jets have become popular in the US and elsewhere and now the Chinese are entering this market with their own C919.
I have had the misfortune of riding in those Embraer jets more than a few times and hate riding in them. The cabin is just so tight (or at least the seat pitch on the ones I got) it was really uncomfortable.
We just bought a Buick from our next door neighbors.
Actually, it has a Toyota nameplate but it sure drives like a Park Avenue.
It's a 2004 Avalon and it runs, drives and looks like a new car. 95,000 babied miles. 2500.00!
It's the XLS model so it has options I have yet to discover. Love it!
Wasn't that when the Avalon was as much a luxury car as a Lexus. AFter that the target of the Avalon changed so it was less competitive to the Lexus models?
"It's so quiet I can't believe it. I have gotten so used to our noisy Hondas."
Boy, you can tell who isn't selling anymore....
GG - I'll join thc "have it checked out" chorus. Of course since I was like 15 I've had a standard "if something doesn't look right call and come in that day" with the ophthalmologist. I'd have false alarms when I was in my teens and he'd always say whenever in doubt come.
I was going to say floaters as an issue but since you had a vitrectomy those would not be an issue. Thankfully that is at least one thing I haven't had to deal with. Of course it's dangerous to say that.
2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
A buddy of mine bought a 2002 Intrigue almost new (dealer demo), top of the line, every option possible including the gold package [rolls eyes]. He discovered a similar oil leak as seen in Cadillacs shortly after purchase in his Intrigue's Shortstar V-6, which was based on the Northstar design and was a very nice engine, albeit quite bulky, and one that GM never developed further after introduction.
The dealer did the tear down to fix the leak under warranty and it required the engine to be pulled and a tremendous amount of disassembly. Car was at the shop for a few days. GM lost money on that one. BTW, he still has the car, maybe the nicest Intrigue still around.
Guy at work had an Intrigue. $40k car he claimed. He got the oil leak and figured since the car was 10 years old and the repair was expensive he dumped it. Now he leases Mazda 6s. Never knew that 4.0L was a Northstar.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Yesterday, my son wanted to visit my father's resting place so we drove up to the South Florida National Cemetery where we paid our respects. The alibastar cover to his remains showed his name, rank, and "Bronze Star", WWII.
They wanted to eat a NY Deli style lunch, so I took them to a restaurant on the way home that specialized in NY Style Delicatessen food. I had the most delicious lean pastrami on rye, my son had lean brisket on rye, his SO has corned beef on rye and they served outstanding cole slaw, kosher dill pickles and we had an appetizer called sautéed kreplach with mushrooms and onions. Kreplach is very similar to a pierogi or Chinese dumpling with a meat filling. Out of this world. But definitely not economical - $60.00+ for the three of us. But at least it was outstanding.
This morning we went back to NYY Steakhouse for their Sunday brunch. I am definitely going on a diet tomorrow and will be taking longer walks for a few weeks to remove the weight I gained in the last few days.
Tomorrow morning I take them to the airport for their return trip to California. She is the perfect woman for my son. I am going to miss them tremendously - but it was a marvelous four days.
Wait a second! Now I've seen everything. Craig bought an Avalon? Ha! I love it! Congrats my friend. Use it well. Make sure you post your punch over in CCBA;(
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Didn't the Brazilian Embraer 100-seat Jet family and the Canadian Bombardier C-Series have a lot to do with the B717 demise as well?
Bigger regional jets were starting to come out, so it was one factor. Neither of those companies have a true 100 seater yet. Embraer has the E-170 and E-190 (more recent). They are commuters that have the engine on the wings and look a bit like a smaller B737. Not a bad plane to ride on for a commuter, but fuselage size does limit the overheads. They are 2X2, not to be confused with the smaller 135/145 which are rear engine with 1X2 seats. Bombardier then came onboard with their CR7 and CR9, but these are just extended CR regional planes - 2X2, but tight with very low placed windows. The C Series is still in test, but once certified will become 100 - 120 seat jets. .I think Japan may be developing a 100 seater as well. I'm not sure how big the 100 seat market will be however. I can actually see the majors flying more of these shorter routes down the road due to pilot shortages and airport congestion, and while Boeing and Airbus planes keep getting more fuel efficient, the commuter jets not near as much of an improvement so far, but that's all just my opinion. BTW, Southwest has started entering some of the more midsize markets and all they fly are 737's. Now if you want tight seats, try Spirit airlines, even though they fly Airbus 319/320.
I don't mind the smaller regional jets with the exception of the toilet. Who thought it was a good idea to have a man relieve himself facing the curved tube of the tiny fuselage? In the best of circumstances I have to tilt my head at an awkward angle and reverse bend my back to make that all work. Add some turbulence and I nearly come away with a concussion just trying to do my business.
How about when the Northstars leaked oil out the back of the engine block requiring a 5000.00 repair?
Often a "Northstar Leak" as the Cadillac Dealers called that would total the car!
The leak, if it occurs, is not usually bad at all. People who have a pristine garage floor would really be upset by their new $40k Cadillac messing up that pristine garage floor. People like me, who park their cars in the driveway, and spill a little oil when doing their own oil changes, are not going to lose any sleep over it. And I’ve never heard of a single case where the oil loss was greater than 1 qt/1000 miles.
Northstar ... That engine was ahead of it's time in every respect except reliability.
Not a reliability problem, LOL. It just needed maintenance on schedule. :@
It needed the coolant changed before it rotted the head bolts.
There was a rumor to that effect, but it was never substantiated. And it certainly wasn’t true in my case. I am a real stickler for preventative maintenance, the coolant / radiator had been flushed twice before the head gaskets blew at 120k miles / 6 years of service.
Actually I'd have to qualify my statement about NEVER buying a Northstar. From what I've read GM finally fixed the head gasket problem by 2004 so after that I'd consider one. I like Caddys too. That engine was ahead of it's time in every respect except reliability.
$10.8k for a 35k mile DTS (that's like a Deville, right?) that's a great price.
The head bolts were changed in 2000, and again mid-year 2004. Anything 2005 and newer, no worries about the head gaskets.
Yes, like a DeVille. Up through 2005, you had the DeVille, the DeVille DTS (sportier), and the DeVille DHS (more luxury). From 2006 to 2011 (last year made), they were all DTS models, just different trim levels.
Isell, my 2010 Avalon had a rear window screen that went up in drive when turned on or manually standing still. I was getting a speeding ticket and the blue lights were bothering me so I put it up. If yours has that feature don't use it while getting a ticket as the cop really got annoyed by it.
You own a Mustang GT and you got a speeding ticket in an Avalon? You have your priorities all mixed up.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
I do remember when those Avalons were pretty darned close to what Lexus was producing. $2500 for anything that runs, let alone something with a reputation for reliability like the Avalon, is a screaming deal. Way to go Isell.....
Retinal woes....not many people around over Labor Day. But, I did call it in. Apparently, my surgeon left on a golf trip to Scotland on Saturday, and his cover guy said nothing sounded amiss. But, he was going to look at my chart and get back to me if he thought it should be checked out. Haven't heard back since yesterday afternoon.
Getting ready to write a letter to the Ohio Attorney General's office about the Cadillac, and send a copy to Nysschen (new Cadillac poobah) in NYC.
I've never heard of this with any car company.....EVER! Nearly two months in their shop and no one cares from Cadillac. Not even a phone call giving me a "rasberrie" for buying their trash. Talk about a company that is destined for the trash heap, especially given their downward sales spiral, it has to be Cadillac. The first thing that usually takes a hit is customer service. They've passed that dubious milestone.
I do remember when those Avalons were pretty darned close to what Lexus was producing. $2500 for anything that runs, let alone something with a reputation for reliability like the Avalon, is a screaming deal. Way to go Isell.....
Retinal woes....not many people around over Labor Day. But, I did call it in. Apparently, my surgeon left on a golf trip to Scotland on Saturday, and his cover guy said nothing sounded amiss. But, he was going to look at my chart and get back to me if he thought it should be checked out. Haven't heard back since yesterday afternoon.
Getting ready to write a letter to the Ohio Attorney General's office about the Cadillac, and send a copy to Nysschen (new Cadillac poobah) in NYC.
I've never heard of this with any car company.....EVER! Nearly two months in their shop and no one cares from Cadillac. Not even a phone call giving me a "rasberrie" for buying their trash. Talk about a company that is destined for the trash heap, especially given their downward sales spiral, it has to be Cadillac. The first thing that usually takes a hit is customer service. They've passed that dubious milestone.
Just a few things GG.
Monitor the eye carefully. Honestly, you can't do much more than you have done, but those doctors don't sound too caring.
Is a letter the only way you can get started with the OAG office? Does a phone call or even an email speed the process along?
OK to write to Nysschen in NYC, but maybe there are others you can contact. Email and phone. Try to get their attention with a shocking line to start, like Do you think a brand new car should be in your dealers garage for over 2 months?
Don't forget to email TV stations....this story would be perfect for 60 Minutes. They did a program about the ignition switch and they said the government was really watching GM now. That reminds me, letters to the insurance bureau and the government safety recall people. This has gone on too long and is not acceptable.
I think there is a rule that goes like this: You can make any argument you want to and you will always find someone who will prove you are right.
There is no way someone who doesn't have driving lessons will drive better than someone who takes them.
Two things, first I just presented a theory I didn't claim any validity to it. Second it addresses basic training in emergency situations and suggests that that training makes worse drivers than those without such training due to making the new drivers overconfident and not re-enforcing that training
I might also add that it is possible to give someone training in a particular subject and have them perform worse than is they haven't had any training.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I think there is a rule that goes like this: You can make any argument you want to and you will always find someone who will prove you are right.
There is no way someone who doesn't have driving lessons will drive better than someone who takes them.
Two things, first I just presented a theory I didn't claim any validity to it. Second it addresses basic training in emergency situations and suggests that that training makes worse drivers than those without such training due to making the new drivers overconfident and not re-enforcing that training
I might also add that it is possible to give someone training in a particular subject and have them perform worse than is they haven't had any training.
Possible, but not very often. Most things people improve if they have an instructor and they take lessons. In driver ed we taught defensive driving which can make a real difference - not too many people would pick that up on their own.
Overconfidence is a big problem, some people think they are the worlds greatest driver so they can do anything, so they end up taking chances and it ends in an accident. That's not necessarily overconfidence because they had lessons, that's overconfidence because they are morons who don't know their own limits.
Maybe he's an outlier, but I sent my son to the Two Day Teen School at the BMW Performance Center as well as the one day Street Survival course. He's now almost 21 and has no at-fault accidents or moving violations on his record. I am also a Street Survival coach and our data indicates the training has a positive effect.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I completed a defensive driver course sponsored here in my condo community by AARP. It saves me about $120 a year in insurance premiums.
I can honestly say that the 8 hour course was a waste of time for me because there wasn't one thing discussed or brought up that would either make me a better driver or that I didn't already know. Most of the 25 participants were in their 80's and I am sure most of them came away with something.
On the other hand, the type of driving courses offered by BMW and Mercedes-Benz at their Georgia and South Carolina sites are outstanding. Hands-on driving experiences in an educational setting are the most effective in making drivers more alert and aware of their shortcomings with opportunities to acquire improved skills and defensive strategies.
I have seriously thought about attending the MB driving experience program next year. They have room accommodations and dining facilities, however you need to make reservations close to a year ahead of your scheduled visit.
When my son did his driver ed about 7 years ago, the emphasis was on defensive driving. What would you do if that car started to pull out in front of you? Where could you go with the car to safely miss someone in front of you? Is someone tailgating you too closely if you have to stop quickly because the light ahead changes to amber?
I am also a Street Survival coach and our data indicates the training has a positive effect.
The best learning experience I've found is to teach. We should have kids like your son teaching other kids with the requirement that they pass it on (theory being that having to turn around and teach other kids will be the real learning experience). And that could encourage a bunch of new drivers to get off their phones and learn to drive.
I am also a Street Survival coach and our data indicates the training has a positive effect.
The best learning experience I've found is to teach. We should have kids like your son teaching other kids with the requirement that they pass it on (theory being that having to turn around and teach other kids will be the real learning experience). And that could encourage a bunch of new drivers to get off their phones and learn to drive.
He's definitely interested in driving events; I suppose I inherited my teaching ability from my father- who taught at the University of Louisville School of Law for nearly three decades. Hopefully those skills passed down to my son as well.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
We went to the Chevrolet dealership to try to lease the new Volt. They are so brand new that they haven't reached any dealers in my area (Sacramento, CA.) They don't expect them until sometime in November. Since it's also brand new, there are no rebates and price is MSRP (as per Edmunds.) Gas prices might be low, but there's still a core of early adopters that will pay MSRP, at least initially.
We can survive with one car for a while, but not until November. So we decided to go next door to the Ford dealership. We leased our C-Max there. We didn't want another C-Max since it hasn't changed in 3 years, but we decided to check out the Fusion.
A salesperson approached us as soon as we got out of our car. We told him we were looking at the Fusion Energi. We told him that we leased our current car there. First he wanted to hand us off to the lease return person, who had no desire to deal with us. We told him who our salesperson was last time. He went to find him. Our old salesman was busy, so he handed us over to the guy who approached us when we arrived. We check out a few Fusions they had on the lot and we picked one.
We go into a cube. The salesperson starts filling out a credit application. We told him that there's no need to fill out a credit application until we agree on a price. "Well, if we don't know how good is your credit, we won't know what kind of payment to give you." I told him that was immaterial. Then he asked what we were paying for our old lease. I told him again it was immaterial.
I told him to make us their best offer. If we liked it, we would lease it today. If not, no harm, no foul.
He came back with his manager and had a print out with invoice and a lease worksheet. While we were talking numbers, the car we picked was sold. There was another car that was exactly the same, but it had a fancy paint color, which was an extra $400.
The numbers looked good, but there weren't any rebates that expired this weekened (Labor day sale.) So we told him if there was no benefit to buying now as opposed to late September/October, we would come back and get exactly what we wanted. Or we could do a factory order for the exact color we wanted today.They agreed to do a factory order.
I confirmed the rates and residual numbers with the numbers I got from kydfx in another forum here and they match. MSRP was $39k. We got it for $30k. And we'll still get the federal tax credit for 2015.
I liked the Volt a bit better (Volt: 50 electric-only miles vs. 18 for the Fusion) and more high tech gadgets. However, the Fusion was over $8k cheaper. I can buy a lot of gas for that money. Maybe when this lease is over, we'll get a Volt.
I mentioned yesterday that I was "consulting" with a friend of my wife that just had her mazda 3 totaled out. She found out it was a total on Saturday and was texting my wife last night, and I was kabitzing. Did a little looking on line. She pretty much decided she wanted another (new) 3.
she was going to wait to buy until late in the week when the check came. But decided to do some looking today. heard in the afternoon that she ended up getting an offer she liked, so signed up for it. left a deposit, and will get it later in the week.
a 2015 3iGT. got the "employee" price. sticker was about 24.7, paid 21.3. So seems like a good deal. lotta car for the money.
We went to the Chevrolet dealership to try to lease the new Volt. They are so brand new that they haven't reached any dealers in my area (Sacramento, CA.) They don't expect them until sometime in November. Since it's also brand new, there are no rebates and price is MSRP (as per Edmunds.) Gas prices might be low, but there's still a core of early adopters that will pay MSRP, at least initially.
We can survive with one car for a while, but not until November. So we decided to go next door to the Ford dealership. We leased our C-Max there. We didn't want another C-Max since it hasn't changed in 3 years, but we decided to check out the Fusion.
A salesperson approached us as soon as we got out of our car. We told him we were looking at the Fusion Energi. We told him that we leased our current car there. First he wanted to hand us off to the lease return person, who had no desire to deal with us. We told him who our salesperson was last time. He went to find him. Our old salesman was busy, so he handed us over to the guy who approached us when we arrived. We check out a few Fusions they had on the lot and we picked one.
We go into a cube. The salesperson starts filling out a credit application. We told him that there's no need to fill out a credit application until we agree on a price. "Well, if we don't know how good is your credit, we won't know what kind of payment to give you." I told him that was immaterial. Then he asked what we were paying for our old lease. I told him again it was immaterial.
I told him to make us their best offer. If we liked it, we would lease it today. If not, no harm, no foul.
He came back with his manager and had a print out with invoice and a lease worksheet. While we were talking numbers, the car we picked was sold. There was another car that was exactly the same, but it had a fancy paint color, which was an extra $400.
The numbers looked good, but there weren't any rebates that expired this weekened (Labor day sale.) So we told him if there was no benefit to buying now as opposed to late September/October, we would come back and get exactly what we wanted. Or we could do a factory order for the exact color we wanted today.They agreed to do a factory order.
I confirmed the rates and residual numbers with the numbers I got from kydfx in another forum here and they match. MSRP was $39k. We got it for $30k. And we'll still get the federal tax credit for 2015.
I liked the Volt a bit better (Volt: 50 electric-only miles vs. 18 for the Fusion) and more high tech gadgets. However, the Fusion was over $8k cheaper. I can buy a lot of gas for that money. Maybe when this lease is over, we'll get a Volt.
Congrats. Sounds like you got a good deal. I almost feel sorry for car sales people, they don't stand a chance against Edmunds posters.
That special paint, was it Ruby Red Metallic? That cost $400 extra on my Ford.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
We went to the Chevrolet dealership to try to lease the new Volt. They are so brand new that they haven't reached any dealers in my area (Sacramento, CA.)
I liked the Volt a bit better (Volt: 50 electric-only miles vs. 18 for the Fusion) and more high tech gadgets. However, the Fusion was over $8k cheaper. I can buy a lot of gas for that money. Maybe when this lease is over, we'll get a Volt.
Good story Verdugo....and good deal.
That's an incredible discount going from $39k to $30k and seems like a really good price for that car. I wonder how many people end up paying $35k or more......who would think they'd give you such a huge amount off.
I see you pay the same price if you get a regular Lincoln MKZ or if you get a hybrid model...I wonder who wouldn't take the hybrid.
The dealer could probably sell more cars if they added a few sales people and tried a little better to please their customers....not much personal touch.
You have become a professional car buyer, verdugo. You did it "by the book!" You had all the info you needed to make a super deal and you played it "cool."
Comments
I think Toyota was aftr the Buick crowd. They even made some with a bench front seat in cloth.
It's so quiet I can't believe it. I have gotten so used to our noisy Hondas.
There is no way someone who doesn't have driving lessons will drive better than someone who takes them.
I have taught driving to high school students and I wouldn't want to see them on the road without lessons.
That rule does apply to other things. As I found out with my business...if you need a creative person to run your business don't get someone with an MBA (SIL). They only know how to do things by the rule book, they only know what they have read. They are not creative. But, I think, knowing how to drive is different.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I could put up with a floaty Buick ride for that kind of price.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
$10.8k for a 35k mile DTS (that's like a Deville, right?) that's a great price.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
The daughter just graduated (with honors) from Ohio State so as a graduation gift, they bought her a brand new Lexus SUV. nice huh?
The Avalon has been babied, synthetic oil, dealer serviced etc. Their daughter always thought the Avalon was an old person's car and never really liked it.
It was discontinued because the small 50 seater regional jets became the hot item so they didn't have use for the 717's.
With time, people got tired of the tiny 50 seater regional jets and airlines realized that people liked the bigger jets.
The only way 717's are economical now is due to low oil prices.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Often a "Northstar Leak" as the Cadillac Dealers called that would total the car!
that popped up on them. Ironically, shadetree neighbor just showed me the Sienna as he worked on
it with a rubber tube connecting the two parts of the output tube from the oil pump on the bottom of
the engine. It has to be replaced with a solid one-piece metal pipe. Replacing it was difficult
because of the pipe now being one piece.
I had heard about those tubber tubes on some V6s. Now I've seen one. Can't buy replacement rubber part from toyota: unsafe part theycalled it, but he had to buy it to repair the van for the owner because it wasn't replaced under
warranty by toyota. Having a rubber tube that dribbled oil along our road as the van was driven
to neighbor's house must have been engineered by the same guy who designed the seal on the Northstar
that requires removal of the engine and splitting it in half to get to the leaking seal. I understand
that later Northstars don't have that "feature." LOL
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The dealer did the tear down to fix the leak under warranty and it required the engine to be pulled and a tremendous amount of disassembly. Car was at the shop for a few days. GM lost money on that one. BTW, he still has the car, maybe the nicest Intrigue still around.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
If yours has that feature don't use it while getting a ticket as the cop really got annoyed by it.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
The Avalon's styling was closer to one of those boxy Mercedes models but it was a quiet and refined automobile but not as engaging to drive as the Buick.
Didn't the Brazilian Embraer 100-seat Jet family and the Canadian Bombardier C-Series have a lot to do with the B717 demise as well?
These medium range jets have become popular in the US and elsewhere and now the Chinese are entering this market with their own C919.
2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6
that the target of the Avalon changed so it was less competitive to the Lexus models?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Boy, you can tell who isn't selling anymore....
GG - I'll join thc "have it checked out" chorus. Of course since I was like 15 I've had a standard "if something doesn't look right call and come in that day" with the ophthalmologist. I'd have false alarms when I was in my teens and he'd always say whenever in doubt come.
I was going to say floaters as an issue but since you had a vitrectomy those would not be an issue. Thankfully that is at least one thing I haven't had to deal with. Of course it's dangerous to say that.
I'd still rather have a Caddy than a Toyota but I agree, you scored a good deal. The Toyota will probably last longer.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Guy at work had an Intrigue. $40k car he claimed. He got the oil leak and figured since the car was 10 years old and the repair was expensive he dumped it. Now he leases Mazda 6s. Never knew that 4.0L was a Northstar.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
sounds like when I got my 2000 Acura TL in 2008. For $2,000. That I sold in in 2014 for $2,700.
advantage to a family deal. Was my sister's car. She was trading it in, and I had 1st dibs (and no time to decide). Easy call on that one!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
They wanted to eat a NY Deli style lunch, so I took them to a restaurant on the way home that specialized in NY Style Delicatessen food. I had the most delicious lean pastrami on rye, my son had lean brisket on rye, his SO has corned beef on rye and they served outstanding cole slaw, kosher dill pickles and we had an appetizer called sautéed kreplach with mushrooms and onions. Kreplach is very similar to a pierogi or Chinese dumpling with a meat filling. Out of this world. But definitely not economical - $60.00+ for the three of us. But at least it was outstanding.
This morning we went back to NYY Steakhouse for their Sunday brunch. I am definitely going on a diet tomorrow and will be taking longer walks for a few weeks to remove the weight I gained in the last few days.
Tomorrow morning I take them to the airport for their return trip to California. She is the perfect woman for my son. I am going to miss them tremendously - but it was a marvelous four days.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Bigger regional jets were starting to come out, so it was one factor. Neither of those companies have a true 100 seater yet. Embraer has the E-170 and E-190 (more recent). They are commuters that have the engine on the wings and look a bit like a smaller B737. Not a bad plane to ride on for a commuter, but fuselage size does limit the overheads. They are 2X2, not to be confused with the smaller 135/145 which are rear engine with 1X2 seats. Bombardier then came onboard with their CR7 and CR9, but these are just extended CR regional planes - 2X2, but tight with very low placed windows. The C Series is still in test, but once certified will become 100 - 120 seat jets. .I think Japan may be developing a 100 seater as well. I'm not sure how big the 100 seat market will be however. I can actually see the majors flying more of these shorter routes down the road due to pilot shortages and airport congestion, and while Boeing and Airbus planes keep getting more fuel efficient, the commuter jets not near as much of an improvement so far, but that's all just my opinion. BTW, Southwest has started entering some of the more midsize markets and all they fly are 737's. Now if you want tight seats, try Spirit airlines, even though they fly Airbus 319/320.
Yes, like a DeVille. Up through 2005, you had the DeVille, the DeVille DTS (sportier), and the DeVille DHS (more luxury). From 2006 to 2011 (last year made), they were all DTS models, just different trim levels.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Retinal woes....not many people around over Labor Day. But, I did call it in. Apparently, my surgeon left on a golf trip to Scotland on Saturday, and his cover guy said nothing sounded amiss. But, he was going to look at my chart and get back to me if he thought it should be checked out. Haven't heard back since yesterday afternoon.
Getting ready to write a letter to the Ohio Attorney General's office about the Cadillac, and send a copy to Nysschen (new Cadillac poobah) in NYC.
I've never heard of this with any car company.....EVER! Nearly two months in their shop and no one cares from Cadillac. Not even a phone call giving me a "rasberrie" for buying their trash. Talk about a company that is destined for the trash heap, especially given their downward sales spiral, it has to be Cadillac. The first thing that usually takes a hit is customer service. They've passed that dubious milestone.
Monitor the eye carefully. Honestly, you can't do much more than you have done, but those doctors don't sound too caring.
Is a letter the only way you can get started with the OAG office? Does a phone call or even an email speed the process along?
OK to write to Nysschen in NYC, but maybe there are others you can contact. Email and phone. Try to get their attention with a shocking line to start, like Do you think a brand new car should be in your dealers garage for over 2 months?
Don't forget to email TV stations....this story would be perfect for 60 Minutes. They did a program about the ignition switch and they said the government was really watching GM now. That reminds me, letters to the insurance bureau and the government safety recall people. This has gone on too long and is not acceptable.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
I might also add that it is possible to give someone training in a particular subject and have them perform worse than is they haven't had any training.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Overconfidence is a big problem, some people think they are the worlds greatest driver so they can do anything, so they end up taking chances and it ends in an accident. That's not necessarily overconfidence because they had lessons, that's overconfidence because they are morons who don't know their own limits.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
I can honestly say that the 8 hour course was a waste of time for me because there wasn't one thing discussed or brought up that would either make me a better driver or that I didn't already know. Most of the 25 participants were in their 80's and I am sure most of them came away with something.
On the other hand, the type of driving courses offered by BMW and Mercedes-Benz at their Georgia and South Carolina sites are outstanding. Hands-on driving experiences in an educational setting are the most effective in making drivers more alert and aware of their shortcomings with opportunities to acquire improved skills and defensive strategies.
I have seriously thought about attending the MB driving experience program next year. They have room accommodations and dining facilities, however you need to make reservations close to a year ahead of your scheduled visit.
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
So far no accidents.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
We went to the Chevrolet dealership to try to lease the new Volt. They are so brand new that they haven't reached any dealers in my area (Sacramento, CA.) They don't expect them until sometime in November. Since it's also brand new, there are no rebates and price is MSRP (as per Edmunds.) Gas prices might be low, but there's still a core of early adopters that will pay MSRP, at least initially.
We can survive with one car for a while, but not until November. So we decided to go next door to the Ford dealership. We leased our C-Max there. We didn't want another C-Max since it hasn't changed in 3 years, but we decided to check out the Fusion.
A salesperson approached us as soon as we got out of our car. We told him we were looking at the Fusion Energi. We told him that we leased our current car there. First he wanted to hand us off to the lease return person, who had no desire to deal with us. We told him who our salesperson was last time. He went to find him. Our old salesman was busy, so he handed us over to the guy who approached us when we arrived. We check out a few Fusions they had on the lot and we picked one.
We go into a cube. The salesperson starts filling out a credit application. We told him that there's no need to fill out a credit application until we agree on a price. "Well, if we don't know how good is your credit, we won't know what kind of payment to give you." I told him that was immaterial. Then he asked what we were paying for our old lease. I told him again it was immaterial.
I told him to make us their best offer. If we liked it, we would lease it today. If not, no harm, no foul.
He came back with his manager and had a print out with invoice and a lease worksheet. While we were talking numbers, the car we picked was sold. There was another car that was exactly the same, but it had a fancy paint color, which was an extra $400.
The numbers looked good, but there weren't any rebates that expired this weekened (Labor day sale.) So we told him if there was no benefit to buying now as opposed to late September/October, we would come back and get exactly what we wanted. Or we could do a factory order for the exact color we wanted today.They agreed to do a factory order.
I confirmed the rates and residual numbers with the numbers I got from kydfx in another forum here and they match. MSRP was $39k. We got it for $30k. And we'll still get the federal tax credit for 2015.
I liked the Volt a bit better (Volt: 50 electric-only miles vs. 18 for the Fusion) and more high tech gadgets. However, the Fusion was over $8k cheaper. I can buy a lot of gas for that money. Maybe when this lease is over, we'll get a Volt.
This dealership also has the contract with the state of California to supply 70% of their police cars. That's over 400 cars a month!
she was going to wait to buy until late in the week when the check came. But decided to do some looking today. heard in the afternoon that she ended up getting an offer she liked, so signed up for it. left a deposit, and will get it later in the week.
a 2015 3iGT. got the "employee" price. sticker was about 24.7, paid 21.3. So seems like a good deal. lotta car for the money.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
That special paint, was it Ruby Red Metallic? That cost $400 extra on my Ford.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
That's an incredible discount going from $39k to $30k and seems like a really good price for that car. I wonder how many people end up paying $35k or more......who would think they'd give you such a huge amount off.
I see you pay the same price if you get a regular Lincoln MKZ or if you get a hybrid model...I wonder who wouldn't take the hybrid.
The dealer could probably sell more cars if they added a few sales people and tried a little better to please their customers....not much personal touch.
Congratulations and happy driving.
2017 MB E400 , 2015 MB GLK350, 2014 MB C250
You have become a professional car buyer, verdugo. You did it "by the book!" You had all the info you needed to make a super deal and you played it "cool."
Congratulations on you new addition to the fleet!
2024 Genesis G90 Super-Charger
buylease that Fusion? You made it seem as routine as buying a loaf of bread. Congrats.