Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

qbrozen

driver100 said:

I don't know a thing about solar panels etc., but, coming from a family that questions everything, what happens if the solar panel people go out of business in year 3?

Fair question. I'd think if they no longer will service/warranty them, then I no longer owe them my payment.

We are using Elon Musk's solar company, BTW.

iluvmysephia1

A good 'ole hammer can be fun, too, especially if I don't hit my finger.

Mountain States Scion upped the Scion iA in Stealth and 6-speed stick to $14,395. I was going to go today but have changed the day to tomorrow in the afternoon.

roadburner

Automobile really liked their Four Seasons M235i.

driver100

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

I don't know a thing about solar panels etc., but, coming from a family that questions everything, what happens if the solar panel people go out of business in year 3?

Fair question. I'd think if they no longer will service/warranty them, then I no longer owe them my payment.

We are using Elon Musk's solar company, BTW.

Makes sense! Thanks!

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

Automobile really liked their Four Seasons M235i.

Seeing any BMW that's not a lease drive on a salty road is a crime against nature.

abacomike

Doctor called me.  The  results are not as definitive as he would have liked - it seems that I have a liver Hemangioma.  This is a collection of blood vessels that form a tumor.  The tumor is usually benign - but given my history of Hep C, the radiologist suggested a repeat CT-Scan in June to see if any changes occur.

In the meantime, my doctor wants me to see a gastroenterologist ASAP to go over the test results with me and my options.  They usually take the tumor out if over 4 cm, which mine is, but because I take blood thinners, that would cause serious bleeding.  So they will make an appointment for me with this specialist and we'll see what he has to say.

So, for at least the next two months, it will be more waiting.  At least we'll see what the gastroenterologist has to say from his perspective.  My doctor put a call into him to try to get me into to see him as soon as possible.

stickguy

Blood thinners are a pain. My dad was in them when his gall bladder went bad 2 years ago. By the time they waited out the blood thinners to do the surgery, it was almost too late.

abacomike

stickguy said:

Blood thinners are a pain. My dad was in them when his gall bladder went bad 2 years ago. By the time they waited out the blood thinners to do the surgery, it was almost too late.

With the type of blood thinners I am on now, there is no way to reverse their effect.  It takes 3-4 days before their effect is reduced sufficiently to perform any procedure that might involve bleeding.  I used to be on Warfarin (Coumidin) and that can be reversed by IV platelets.  So if anything causes me to bleed, I would be in trouble.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

The truth is that is a 7 game series was extended to a 77 game series to satisfy you, it is likely you'd get the exact same results as long as there are no major injuries. The 1989 A's could have likely won in a 39 game sweep instead of 4. Maybe the Giants take a few over the ridiculous tediousness of such an endeavor, but there was no stopping the A's that season after what happened to them in '88.

No you wouldn't get the same results. Teams never play consistently across the season, they have streaks where they win a lot of games and slumps when they can't seem to win. But it all evens out. If you would get the same results then the regular season is a sham and all you really need to do is pair off the teams and let the play best of X seasons until one team stands.

Look at it this way, if I flip a coin there is a 50% chance of it coming up heads, yet if I consistently flip the coin I will repeatedly get streaks where the result is always heads or always tails. Now while I will repeatedly get streaks where I will get heads (or tails) 4,5,6,7 or more times in a row over the long run heads will come up 50% of the time.

Same thing with sports a team that plays .667 baseball wont go the entire season winning 2 games then losing one then winning 2 then losing 1. They will have times when they win 5 or 6 in a row and there will be times when they will lose 4 or 5 in a row, but in 162 games it will even out to .667 baseball. This is why it is hard to determine who is the better team by only looking at 4 to 7 games.

Doesn't look like we'll ever agree on this because frankly there are some good teams that weren't very streaky on their way to 104 wins or 100, or whatever. Also, you are not valuing "clutch" enough. Mr. October and others.

But the biggest thing you need to take into account is that a pretty good team might be great at beating up on the bad teams, but really lousy at beating good teams, even worse at beating the best. The playoffs are a contest of the Best of the Best going Head to Head; the regular season means nothing come playoff time. You have to beat the best of the best when it counts the most in order to be the real Champ.

Another great example of one of the greatest teams of all-time is in the NBA when Dallas beat the Lebron James and Wade Miami Heat in 6 games (almost did it in 5). Different sport, but Dallas was amazing when it counted the most, while Lebron couldn't handle the pressure back then. Actually, he played pretty good, but in crunch time they'd put Kidd on him and his defense was stifling, even for the bigger man.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

I think she should go to small claims court to get something...ask for $5000 for diminished value.

But, no easy answer, our 2001 C Class was hit pretty hard in the rear end. $4000 repair, we got a loaner car, ours was repaired, but we had to report it was in an accident when we traded it in, No compensation - it is ridiculous!

Kind of hard to determine what is the amount of the diminished value. Hard to know what the car will go for until you sell it. Also the timing of the disposal of the vehicle will also have an impact on what that amount is.

Also say if you get $5K for diminished value and on the way home from the courthouse you take a turn to fast and drive into a fire hydrant do you have to give a portion of that $5K back because now there would have been a diminished value without the first accident?

The insurance company could claim there was a prior accident and total you out at $5K less due to diminished value. You don't have to sell to determine value. The easy way to fix that problem if you think it is a legitimate one is to have the paying party (insurance company) buy the car and do their best to sell it themselves. That way they have incentive to minimize their own diminished value losses.

Now you are getting it, sort of. Diminished value really cannot be determined until the car is sold and then only if you have the sales information of the exact car being sold to a similar buyer. But your "easy fix" isn't so easy as this would have to be done for every accident, no matter how minor, where the insured wasn't at fault.

Not to mention that the diminished value only comes into play when the vehicle is disposed of. And then the diminished value shrinks over time. Say if I sell the car one year after the accident the diminished value would be greater than if I sold it two years after the accident and if I keep the car for 15 years and put 225K miles on it their won't be any diminished value.

And it totally ignores and "diminished value" that subsequently happens that is the insurers fault.

I'd argue diminished value occurs the second the accident happens. One moment the owner can sell his vehicle for full market value, the next second, you are looking at 60 days of repairs and it'll never sell for full market value again. Your ability to sell property has been diminished immediately; the loss occurs instantly. Is the loss mitigated by keeping the car; yes. However, that shouldn't be the owners problem. Claims should be based on the date of loss, period, end of story.

sda

In SC you are basically out of luck trying to get compensated for diminished value. Not good.

"Where the policy language clearly “expressly limits coverage to the lesser of the actual value or the cost of repair” the South Carolina Supreme Court has held that “[t]hese are alternatives, which do not include an additional obligation to pay for diminished value when the cost of repair is chosen.” The Court also would not read into the cost of repair an additional requirement "

WORK PRODUCT OF MATTHIESEN, WICKERT & LEHRER, S.C. Page 10

driver100

Mike, Sounds pretty good so far:
Hemangiomas are noncancerous growths that form due to an abnormal collection of blood vessels. They’re often found on the skin or internal organs, particularly the liver. They are usually congenital, which means that most people develop them before birth, while they’re still in the womb.

Hemangiomas on the liver rarely cause symptoms. Usually, they’re not discovered until you are tested for an unrelated condition — this is called an “incidental finding.”

FULL ARTICLE

abacomike

driver100 said:

Mike, Sounds pretty good so far: Hemangiomas are noncancerous growths that form due to an abnormal collection of blood vessels. They’re often found on the skin or internal organs, particularly the liver. They are usually congenital, which means that most people develop them before birth, while they’re still in the womb. Hemangiomas on the liver rarely cause symptoms. Usually, they’re not discovered until you are tested for an unrelated condition — this is called an “incidental finding.” FULL ARTICLE

I have been vomiting on and off the last three days - thought it was the flu - Doc said if the nausea, vomiting and pain don't subside in the next couple of days he wants me in the hospital.  Now I know why - I read several articles about this and if symptoms like I am experiencing persist, there could be a problem.

Doc thinks it's caused by all the anti virals I took over the past 7 months plus all the blood thinners, statins, heart medications, etc., which reek havoc on the liver - and with my liver already taxed by Hep C, voila - Hemangioma.  This did not show up on the CT-scan I had in November at the hospital nor on the ultrasound I had of my liver 8 months ago.  So this is new, not congenital or old.

Doc is very concerned about it.

isellhondas

Positive thoughts and prayers will continue for you.

andres3

sda said:

In SC you are basically out of luck trying to get compensated for diminished value. Not good.

"Where the policy language clearly “expressly limits coverage to the lesser of the actual value or the cost of repair” the South Carolina Supreme Court has held that “[t]hese are alternatives, which do not include an additional obligation to pay for diminished value when the cost of repair is chosen.” The Court also would not read into the cost of repair an additional requirement "

WORK PRODUCT OF MATTHIESEN, WICKERT & LEHRER, S.C. Page 10

I think you are out of luck on diminished value claims in 49 States (Georgia the only level-headed State) if you are claiming it on your own policy. But the at-fault party and insurance doesn't have a contract with the victim, so a loss is a loss.

andres3

qbrozen said:

So the VW $5k payout thing came up on the RWTIV board. I posted this there but then decided to delete and move it here...


What really bugs me about the whole thing is that $5k to the owners still doesn't mean diddly in comparison to what they did. What about me? I never owned one but me, my family, and all my descendants suffer with all that added pollution their 11 million cars put out? I was thinking about this on the way to work this morn... what would I want them to do about it? Putting them out of business doesn't help. Getting money from their pockets to everybody else's doesn't help. The only positive outcome I could want, I believe, would be to order them to now apply all of their money and resources to producing nothing but zero emissions vehicles from now on. Put on the road vehicles to offset all the damage they have done.

I would argue Chrysler has done far more damage to me than VW has to you. You'd have a hard time proving VW TDI's have polluted anything of significance to the real-world, and it would be much easier for me to make my case than yours.

If companies were forced to pay for all the damage they've ever caused anyone they'd all probably be extinct.

fezo

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

I don't know a thing about solar panels etc., but, coming from a family that questions everything, what happens if the solar panel people go out of business in year 3?

Fair question. I'd think if they no longer will service/warranty them, then I no longer owe them my payment.

We are using Elon Musk's solar company, BTW.

I tried them and just got a phone guy talking gibberish. Ended up locally. Much smaller unit than yours but similar results. Just got this month's electric bill for negative $367. Only turned the system on in August and Atlantic Electric adjusts the budget in the April bill so we'll see in a year what, if any, bill I get.

The outfit I used is out of Monmouth County and has been in heating and air for decades and is one of top solar outfits in the northeast. I'm just now setting up the Energy Certificates. The federal tax credit was sweet.

Have a friend who just was dealing with Solar City and they sent a guy out who could not have been more knowledgeable. Guess I hit them at the wrong time.

fezo

driver100 said:

verdugo said:

VW will offer to buy back 500,000 Diesel cars
http://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/exclusive-vw-to-offer-to-buy-back-nearly-500000-us-diesel-cars-sources/ar-BBs2iUT

Ouch, that is going to be expensive.

I am thinking they will buy VW diesels back, ship them to some country that has no pollution requirements (Cuba or many others) and will probably make a profit on them.....since they aren't worth much any way, and that will also buoy up the price of their used cars since there won't be many around.

I think the used prices will be depressed because, as one might notice, VW sales have been declining since this debacle. Put the nail in the coffin for me. Prior to this I'd have been OK leasing a GTI. Just based on reliability I wouldn't own a VW out of warranty.

fezo

stickguy said:

Range obsession would prevent me from ever being comfortable with an EV. I couple happily live with something like a volt, and get almost all the advantages.

As long as no cargo space isn't an issue.

isellhondas

The Indy Shop I use in town has five star Yelp ratings and they are always busy. They will no longer work on European cars because of past problems and constant comebacks. Like I heard one shop owner say about Audis " They don't stay fixed"!

abacomike

They delivered my car back to me this evening.  Paint on the bumper matched the rest of the body nicely.  That bumper piece is huge - wraps around to the back of the rear wheel wells.  Feels good to be back in my saddle again! 

driver100

fezo said:

stickguy said:

Range obsession would prevent me from ever being comfortable with an EV. I couple happily live with something like a volt, and get almost all the advantages.

As long as no cargo space isn't an issue.

I didn't think about that issue with a Volt....do the batteries fill up the trunk?

driver100

isellhondas said:

The Indy Shop I use in town has five star Yelp ratings and they are always busy. They will no longer work on European cars because of past problems and constant comebacks. Like I heard one shop owner say about Audis " They don't stay fixed"!

Isn't that what they used to say. I thought current models were more reliable. Anyway, what's the fun in owning a luxury European car if you can't sit in the waiting room and enjoy a latte.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

Mike, Sounds pretty good so far:
Hemangiomas are noncancerous growths that form due to an abnormal collection of blood vessels. They’re often found on the skin or internal organs, particularly the liver. They are usually congenital, which means that most people develop them before birth, while they’re still in the womb.

Hemangiomas on the liver rarely cause symptoms. Usually, they’re not discovered until you are tested for an unrelated condition — this is called an “incidental finding.”

FULL ARTICLE

"Quote">hy - I read several articles about this and if symptoms like I am experiencing persist, there could be a problem.

Doc thinks it's caused by all the anti virals I took over the past 7 months plus all the blood thinners, statins, heart medications, etc., which reek havoc on the liver - and with my liver already taxed by Hep C, voila - Hemangioma.  This did not show up on the CT-scan I had in November at the hospital nor on the ultrasound I had of my liver 8 months ago.  So this is new, not congenital or old

.

Doc is very concerned about it.

Well, you have had a lot to deal with health wise and whatever you take is going to have some other negative affects too. We are all hoping for the best possible outcome.

suydam

It has cargo space for ordinary chores like groceries and such. Like most compact cars. If that's your primary use it should be fine. I'd like to try one out.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Blood thinners are a pain. My dad was in them when his gall bladder went bad 2 years ago. By the time they waited out the blood thinners to do the surgery, it was almost too late.

Same with my dad. On blood thinners because of atrial fib which can throw clots which can cause strokes. They took him off the thinners to do a diagnostic procedure and sure enough, clot caused a major stroke that killed him.

Ain't modern medicine great?

oldfarmer50

fezo said:

qbrozen said:

driver100 said:

I don't know a thing about solar panels etc., but, coming from a family that questions everything, what happens if the solar panel people go out of business in year 3?

Fair question. I'd think if they no longer will service/warranty them, then I no longer owe them my payment.

We are using Elon Musk's solar company, BTW.

I tried them and just got a phone guy talking gibberish. Ended up locally. Much smaller unit than yours but similar results. Just got this month's electric bill for negative $367. Only turned the system on in August and Atlantic Electric adjusts the budget in the April bill so we'll see in a year what, if any, bill I get.

The outfit I used is out of Monmouth County and has been in heating and air for decades and is one of top solar outfits in the northeast. I'm just now setting up the Energy Certificates. The federal tax credit was sweet.

Have a friend who just was dealing with Solar City and they sent a guy out who could not have been more knowledgeable. Guess I hit them at the wrong time.

How about you Fezo, did you purchase or lease? If you leased I'd be interested in knowing if that negative $367 was more or less than the lease.

qbrozen

andres3 said:

So the VW $5k payout thing came up on the RWTIV board. I posted this there but then decided to delete and move it here... What really bugs me about the whole thing is that $5k to the owners still doesn't mean diddly in comparison to what they did. What about me? I never owned one but me, my family, and all my descendants suffer with all that added pollution their 11 million cars put out? I was thinking about this on the way to work this morn... what would I want them to do about it? Putting them out of business doesn't help. Getting money from their pockets to everybody else's doesn't help. The only positive outcome I could want, I believe, would be to order them to now apply all of their money and resources to producing nothing but zero emissions vehicles from now on. Put on the road vehicles to offset all the damage they have done.

I would argue Chrysler has done far more damage to me than VW has to you. You'd have a hard time proving VW TDI's have polluted anything of significance to the real-world, and it would be much easier for me to make my case than yours. If companies were forced to pay for all the damage they've ever caused anyone they'd all probably be extinct.

I'm not sure what chrysler did to you, but as far as proving what VW has done, I don't think there is any more proving needed. The testing has shown they are polluting 40x more than they should times 11 million vehicles. That means 11 million vehicles are out there and have been out there putting out the pollution of 440 million vehicles! Significance is not even a question. This isn't a comparison of one company over another or one wrong over another wrong. We can't say "well, Exxon has done more damage, so VW should get a pass." It just can't work that way.

nyccarguy

@qbrozen - He said "Hi" and bought a Neon.  

roadburner

I thought it was his parents' car. Twice abused!

roadburner

bwia said:

Prince is dead but his hit song little Red Corvette will live on forever in my memory. I actually met Prince in 1975 at an MPLS night club. He was a serious musician even back then.

May he RIP 

Chevrolet had the absolute coolest tribute- hands down:

bwia

Roadburner, thanks for sharing that pic. What a clever tribute. Very nice and i am sure Prince would approve. 

nyccarguy

It's far from a "little red Corvette," but I did drive my Prelude to work today.  It is little & red.

carnaught

Mike, I echo all of the previous comments. Wish you the best and thoughts and prayers are with you.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

It's far from a "little red Corvette," but I did drive my Prelude to work today.  It is little & red.

Ditto for my ti- I drove it all day Friday.

henryn

carnaught said:

Mike, I echo all of the previous comments. Wish you the best and thoughts and prayers are with you.

+1

Hang in there, Mike.

jmonroe

Happy Passover to those who observe.

I know it's difficult but don't eat too many Matzo balls and potato latkes.

jmonroe

henryn

We seem to get opinions here on everything from dishwashers to backsplashes, so it should be safe to ask a question related to car buying, yes? (smile)

Anyone here ever buy from Hertz or Enterprise? I have been looking around online at used minivans. Nearly everything that I see (outside of Odyssey) seems to have been a rental vehicle. So I'm looking at the online sales stores for Hertz and Enterprise.

I used to be opposed to the idea of buying an ex-rental car, but now I'm more open to the idea. And if you are going to buy an ex-rental, why not buy from the rental agency instead of one that's been through an auction and changed hands several times?

Their prices (Hertz and Enterprise) seem well within reason, certainly better than CarMax. I can't believe some of the prices I have seen at CarMax.

So, opinions? Experiences?

28firefighter

Thanks, @jmonroe and happy Passover as well to all of my fellow posters that celebrate. 

Wife and I skipped first night Seder to take a redeye to Philly to celebrate second night with my family. I'm a bit tired. 

driver100

Henryn, A long time ago I bought a used rental car...it was a Poniac Phoenix I believe and was a 78. The car held up well, and was a good buy. But, I always thought it wasn't as good as it would have been, if it had the same mileage, but, if it only had one driver.

Maybe it is just psychological, but, I think the more drivers you have the more chances there are things won't work as well over time. My other guess is, I imagine some people might get kind of rough with a rental car, and not just speed, but hitting curbs or other things. I know of one guy who used to like driving and then throwing the gear shifter into reverse.

Another concern is how good is their maintenance....such as changing oil. I once drove taxis and those guys did what they had to in order to cut expenses. Some used toilet paper as an oil filter.

I think the odds are the car will be fine, but, there is a chance it could be very problematic.

driver100

jmonroe said:

Happy Passover to those who observe.

I know it's difficult but don't eat too many Matzo balls and potato latkes.

jmonroe

Very nice and thoughtful JM. +1

stickguy

The rental sales lot do seem to have good prices. And as noted, if you buy one that came from an auction, it was probably a rental anyway. At least buying direct, they can supply service records.

One of them (I think Hertz) now has "rent to buy" units (I stumbled upon their ad while cruising the cars.com listings). IIRC, they are current rentals available for sale. You can test drive for 2 hours for free, or rent for a day at a low price. if you want it, they credit the rental fee. So gives you a chance to take a long, free test drive.

Here is the link.

https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/productservice/index.jsp?targetPage=rent2buycarsales.jsp

[Deleted User]

henryn said:

We seem to get opinions here on everything from dishwashers to backsplashes, so it should be safe to ask a question related to car buying, yes? (smile)

Anyone here ever buy from Hertz or Enterprise? I have been looking around online at used minivans. Nearly everything that I see (outside of Odyssey) seems to have been a rental vehicle. So I'm looking at the online sales stores for Hertz and Enterprise.

I used to be opposed to the idea of buying an ex-rental car, but now I'm more open to the idea. And if you are going to buy an ex-rental, why not buy from the rental agency instead of one that's been through an auction and changed hands several times?

Their prices (Hertz and Enterprise) seem well within reason, certainly better than CarMax. I can't believe some of the prices I have seen at CarMax.

So, opinions? Experiences?

How many miles are you seeing on those rentals? My father in law used to buy from Budget and had good experiences, but that was when they had less than 12,000 miles. Rental companies really seem to be miling them up these days. Personally, I'm not a fan of buying a former rental with all those miles given their hard life.

Quality minivans are difficult to buy as a general rule given their intended purposes: garbage can, dining room, vomit catch-all, foot rest, etc... Plus the owners rarely care about the mechanical needs so long as the van starts and gets to the sporting event or to school without catching fire.

My recommendation would to be to keep scouring the classifieds until you find what you want. Don't rush. Don't go to CarMax. Insist on maintenance receipts. It may take a little while longer to find your new-to-you van, but you'll likely pay a lower price and find one with a better history.

graphicguy

For all intents and purposes, I think it depends on who you buy an ex-rental from. Hertz seems to take car of their cars the best, followed closely by Avis. No surprises there....they're the two biggest in the industry.

All the ones from Enterprise I have rented have been OK. But, a 1/2 step "less" well cared for than Hertz and Avis.

I've rented some real dogs from Budget and Dollar....check engine lights on, trim falling off, scuffs and scratches, etc.

National has been hit an miss....some are quite nice. Others look like they just came out of a chop shop.

Am renting a Jeep Cherokee AWD/4WD from Hertz right now. Nor sure what these sell for, but it rattles like crazy....with only 3K miles on the odo. Good suspension. Soaks up rough roads well while managing to go around corners with little body lean....surprising for an SUV. Steering was surprisingly precise and communicative, too. Brakes stopped reassuringly with a firm pedal.

I'm sure that the UConnect feature was the base version as the screen was small. Had a back up camera, though. And, it was simple to use and pair my iPhone to.

Still using the Mercedes type key.

Lots of big gaps where there we seams of any sort, both inside and out.

Assuming it was a 4 cyl, as this motor doesn't remotely resemble the Pentastar I drove a couple of months ago in a Grand Cherokee. Don't know if it's too much weight, or the motor is that anemic, but it made way more noise than power. Trans shifted smoothly though.

I will say, if Fiat can ever get their act together with fit/finish/assembly quality, etc....they'll sell some vehicles. They are certainly competitive with other like for like vehicles I've driven. As it stands, I wouldn't put my own money into a Cherokee, however.

I'd probably go the 4-Runner route if I was writing the check.

bwia

My daughter at one time worked for Enterprise. And what I was told the bulk of Enterprise's business are through car dealers and insurance replacement rentals. As such, car owners tended to take better care of their rentals than the holiday and joy riders.

So based upon the above observation an Enterprise car probably will be less abused than the others.

explorerx4

@henryn, If you go for a Mopar van, get the Chrysler, it has a USB.

henryn

Thanks for the feedback so far, more would be welcome. I cleaned up the Cadillac this morning, and posted it for sale on Craigslist. I have not fully decided to make a move, but I decided to see if the Cadillac would sell easily. If it does, then I will make up my mind about whether or not to replace, or just get along with only the truck.

houston.craigslist.org/cto/5553134553.html

oldfarmer50

Experiences? I think my Lincon was originally a rental car, CarFax said it was a "fleet" vehicle. It's lasted 21 years and 92k miles abet with some quirks that I suspect were due to rough driving.

That's the crux of the consideration. How much abuse do you think the car was subjected to and how long do you plan on keeping it? If you're keeping it for just a few years you might never see the consequences of granny doing doughnuts, otherwise you might have to repair things you might not otherwise.

On the positive side, I'm guessing major players like Hertz give their cars routine maintaince as least. You might not get that from a regular car.

Google 'rental car abuse' if you want to scare yourself.

bwia

graphicguy said:

For all intents and purposes, I think it depends on who you buy an ex-rental from. Hertz seems to take car of their cars the best, followed closely by Avis. No surprises there....they're the two biggest in the industry.

All the ones from Enterprise I have rented have been OK. But, a 1/2 step "less" well cared for than Hertz and Avis.

I've rented some real dogs from Budget and Dollar....check engine lights on, trim falling off, scuffs and scratches, etc.

National has been hit an miss....some are quite nice. Others look like they just came out of a chop shop.

.

As to fleet size according to Forbes Enterprise is the largest car rental company by large margin.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

The rental sales lot do seem to have good prices. And as noted, if you buy one that came from an auction, it was probably a rental anyway. At least buying direct, they can supply service records.

One of them (I think Hertz) now has "rent to buy" units (I stumbled upon their ad while cruising the cars.com listings). IIRC, they are current rentals available for sale. You can test drive for 2 hours for free, or rent for a day at a low price. if you want it, they credit the rental fee. So gives you a chance to take a long, free test drive.

Here is the link.

https://www.hertz.com/rentacar/productservice/index.jsp?targetPage=rent2buycarsales.jsp

That's cool. The 2 hour test drive would be enough time to take it to a mechanic. I wonder if the computer stores info on abuse type activity like how many times the motor hit the rev limiter. If your mechanic could access that it would tell a lot.