Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

fezo

abacomike said:

@fezo

Thank God you are still with us, fezo!  The world would not be as nice a place without you!  God Bless!!! 

Does that mean I get the scotch?

explorerx4

@isellhondas,
You can get a free Map My Walk app for your phone to see if this type of thing interests you before buying a device.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

It depends...

How self obsessed are you?

Ha!

I find it funny to read people on my Twitter timeline going on constantly about how they need to up their step count based on what this thing tells them. It is quite bizarre how obsessed they get. But many people have gone totally off the deep end in regard to fitness. Nothing wrong with being fit. I just question the way some people make it the most important thing in their lives.

In summer I stay fit doing tomato yoga. Great stretching and bending and lifting and carrying and washing and packing and...

berri

Aba, since you're giving out booze, I prefer gin - Bombay will do fine.

You take good care of yourself now. Given your history and stories, I suspect any hospital time will coincide with a full moon.

bwia

imidazol97 said:

I have no interest in scotch. I believe I tried it in 1965 with Coke and didn't like it at all. I keep a pint of Maker's Mark for medicinal purposes. I think it's 25 years old. Don't get sick very often where I just need a dose and to go to bed. But it was imported from Kentucky besides being made there.

I no longer drink alcohol but when I did it was Johnny Walker Black Label and Maker's Mark.

Speaking of Marker's Mark I took a tour of the  plant in the 1990's and it was great. I don't remember if was free but the  chocolate candy filled with bourbon was an intoxicating treat.

andres3

henryn said:

I appreciate all of the kind words about my DTS, and the ad I wrote to try and sell it. A great bunch of people here, and I do enjoy this community. Also the feedback about buying an ex-rental car. I have always tended to shy away from ex-rentals, due to the fear of abuse, but I suppose no one out there is taking a rented minivan to the track and abusing it, so … (smile)

Mike, I would not open that bottle of $1500 scotch. I simply would not do that, it would hurt my soul to think of more than $1,000 disappearing into thin air when I twisted the cap and broke the seal. Especially if you’re not a scotch drinker, which I am not myself. The most expensive booze I have ever purchased was some 10 year old Tullamore Dew for about $50. Irish Whiskey, very unlike scotch, and if you’re a bourbon drinker like me, then Irish will taste much better to you.

And speaking of backsplash, a young man of my acquaintance just bought his first house. The previous owner had put in one of “those” backsplashes, the kind recently pictured here in these forums. It’s the kind of thing that really catches your eye immediately when you walk into the kitchen. I suspect most people will either love it or hate it. I’m not sure it’s something I would want to live with long term, but I would never change out a functional unit just for the sake of appearance. That would be money and energy wasted that I could spend on cars or computers!

Usually, though, such decisions are made by the “better half”. My ex would run me all over town looking at faucets for the kitchen sink until she found just the right one.

Renting minivans and tracking them sounds like something Top Gear used to do for TV.

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

isellhondas said:

Another off the wall question that isn't car related.

Anyone have a suggestion on buying a Fitbit or other similar device?

It depends...

How self obsessed are you?

Oldfarmer....that ties it up perfectly!

One daughter gave me a Pedometer for my birthday. It took awhile to set up....not easy for the computer illiterate.

It is of some interest knowing how many steps I take in a day, usually around 8000 to 10000, and the number of calories burned, about 250, and the number of miles walked....about 3 miles. I wear it when playing tennis and pickleball, but I think it counts running and hitting the ball as just steps, so I doubt it is truly accurate.

Another daughter has a Fitbit and she can measure pulse rate etc. But, drug stores have machines that do that, and how often do you need to know that information, unless you are obsessive compulsive about knowing this. Or, if you really do have an issue that you want to monitor.

So, oldfarmer is right on...good if you are obsessive, kind of a cute novelty for awhile. Probably better to borrow one for a week and get an idea of how much you do in a day.

driver100

fezo said:

abacomike said:

@fezo

Thank God you are still with us, fezo!  The world would not be as nice a place without you!  God Bless!!! 

Does that mean I get the scotch?

No, but you can have the empty bottle as a souvenir

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

I'd argue diminished value occurs the second the accident happens. One moment the owner can sell his vehicle for full market value, the next second, you are looking at 60 days of repairs and it'll never sell for full market value again. Your ability to sell property has been diminished immediately; the loss occurs instantly. Is the loss mitigated by keeping the car; yes. However, that shouldn't be the owners problem. Claims should be based on the date of loss, period, end of story.

Regardless of when it occurs it isn't realized until the vehicle is disposed of, if you even realize it. Once the vehicle is repaired you are pretty much made whole. Your car is back and properly running and looks like it did prior to the accident. Any diminished value isn't realized until it is sold and then it is nearly impossible to quantify the "loss" or even if it occured.

andres3

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

I'd argue diminished value occurs the second the accident happens. One moment the owner can sell his vehicle for full market value, the next second, you are looking at 60 days of repairs and it'll never sell for full market value again. Your ability to sell property has been diminished immediately; the loss occurs instantly. Is the loss mitigated by keeping the car; yes. However, that shouldn't be the owners problem. Claims should be based on the date of loss, period, end of story.

Regardless of when it occurs it isn't realized until the vehicle is disposed of, if you even realize it. Once the vehicle is repaired you are pretty much made whole. Your car is back and properly running and looks like it did prior to the accident. Any diminished value isn't realized until it is sold and then it is nearly impossible to quantify the "loss" or even if it occured.

Used car managers have no problem assessing diminished value. It only seems insurance people have a problem with it. It is always realized unless you find a buyer that doesn't care, which is unlikely to happen. A car that has been repaired is never the same, and will never look the same. 100% of trained used car manager's will know when a vehicle has been repaired 100% of the time; that tells you something. It's not 99%, it's 100% no matter how good the body shop is. The quantity of diminished value is the difference you'd be able to get selling your car unblemished on the free market vs. what you can get with the damaged car.

snakeweasel

henryn said:

We seem to get opinions here on everything from dishwashers to backsplashes, so it should be safe to ask a question related to car buying, yes? (smile)

Anyone here ever buy from Hertz or Enterprise? I have been looking around online at used minivans. Nearly everything that I see (outside of Odyssey) seems to have been a rental vehicle. So I'm looking at the online sales stores for Hertz and Enterprise.

I used to be opposed to the idea of buying an ex-rental car, but now I'm more open to the idea. And if you are going to buy an ex-rental, why not buy from the rental agency instead of one that's been through an auction and changed hands several times?

Their prices (Hertz and Enterprise) seem well within reason, certainly better than CarMax. I can't believe some of the prices I have seen at CarMax.

So, opinions? Experiences?

My car was a rental car but I didn't buy it from the rental car agency. I got it at just over 18K miles and now after more than 7 years and almost 90K miles there have been no issues. I wouldn't hesitate to get a former rental.

Mr_Shiftright

RE: Diminished Value That's a bit of a quibble isn't it, Snake? DV is sorta like a balloon payment on a loan. You don't pay the balloon until your time is up, but it's still an unavoidable debt---or in the case of DV, deficit.

RE: Scotch -- I can confidently taste the difference between cheap scotch and good, but I doubt I could identify the $1600 bottle in a blind tasting. I do volunteer to try, though.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

Neighbors of mine gave me a gift - a bottle of Macallan 25 year old Sherry Cask Scotch.  The husband said that if I sipped the scotch each night for 30 days, it would cure me of all my ills.  They are a lovely couple from London who have lived next door to me for many years.  They know I haven't been feeling well and felt that this would make me feel better.  They said they received the bottle as a gift from their son last year - but they don't drink alcoholic beverages any more.

I never heard of Macallan Scotch before - I really do not like scotch - but I sure don't want to disappoint them.  Any of you guys know anything about the brand?  I'm going to open it tonight and "do some sipping" as they suggested.  Let me know if any of you are familiar with Macallan. 

Good scotch but pricey, enjoy it.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

explorerx4 said:

@abacomike,
I didn't realize you knew these people for quite a while.
That is a heck of a bottle of scotch!

Like I mentioned before, I do not drink scotch - I prefer to "sip" bourbon.  But from what I've heard here and found in my research, this is one of those really rare scotches.  To open or not to open, that IS the question! 

Life is short, enjoy that scotch.

Had several of their scotches several years ago at a whisky dinner they sponsored. A five course gourmet dinner with each course matched to one of their whiskeys. Dirt cheap considering the food and the drinks plus they gave away a bottle of whiskey at the end (but not the most expensive whiskey).

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

verdugo said:

abacomike said:

Yes - I asked them about that.  They said their son received the bottle of scotch from a business associate while he was down here on business last year.  Since the son didn't want to go through security at the airport with a sealed bottle of "liquid" for fear it would be confiscated, he decided to give it to his parents.  So in the end, I guess I really have to thank the TSA for the scotch! 

Ahh, that makes more sense.

Soo, how was it? Did it live up to the hype?

I did not open the bottle.  I decided I would keep it for a special occasion when I know someone who drinks scotch would appreciate it.

I'll be in Florida early August, I'll be glad to help you break into that bottle.

snakeweasel

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

I'd argue diminished value occurs the second the accident happens. One moment the owner can sell his vehicle for full market value, the next second, you are looking at 60 days of repairs and it'll never sell for full market value again. Your ability to sell property has been diminished immediately; the loss occurs instantly. Is the loss mitigated by keeping the car; yes. However, that shouldn't be the owners problem. Claims should be based on the date of loss, period, end of story.

Regardless of when it occurs it isn't realized until the vehicle is disposed of, if you even realize it. Once the vehicle is repaired you are pretty much made whole. Your car is back and properly running and looks like it did prior to the accident. Any diminished value isn't realized until it is sold and then it is nearly impossible to quantify the "loss" or even if it occured.

Used car managers have no problem assessing diminished value. It only seems insurance people have a problem with it. It is always realized unless you find a buyer that doesn't care, which is unlikely to happen. A car that has been repaired is never the same, and will never look the same. 100% of trained used car manager's will know when a vehicle has been repaired 100% of the time; that tells you something. It's not 99%, it's 100% no matter how good the body shop is. The quantity of diminished value is the difference you'd be able to get selling your car unblemished on the free market vs. what you can get with the damaged car.

Used car managers work on the theory of buy low and sell high. So I would suspect that that "diminished value" shrinks to practically nothing come time to sell that used car. I had a used car manager tell me that the transmission of the car I wanted to trade in was about to go so he couldn't give us much for a trade in. We didn't buy from them and eventually decided not to buy. We drove that car another 100K miles with no transmission issues.

snakeweasel

Mr_Shiftright said:

RE: Diminished Value That's a bit of a quibble isn't it, Snake? DV is sorta like a balloon payment on a loan. You don't pay the balloon until your time is up, but it's still an unavoidable debt---or in the case of DV, deficit.

RE: Scotch -- I can confidently taste the difference between cheap scotch and good, but I doubt I could identify the $1600 bottle in a blind tasting. I do volunteer to try, though.

I have had some real good $30 bottles of scotch and I have had some pretty bad $125 bottles of scotch. Price does not always equate to quality.

venture

ab348 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

It depends...

How self obsessed are you?

Ha!

I find it funny to read people on my Twitter timeline going on constantly about how they need to up their step count based on what this thing tells them. It is quite bizarre how obsessed they get. But many people have gone totally off the deep end in regard to fitness. Nothing wrong with being fit. I just question the way some people make it the most important thing in their lives.

Ain't that the truth? A friend decided since he was getting older and starting to gain weight he should start an exercise campaign. He started following a really strenuous routine - for about a week when he tore something in his knee, had to have surgery, and is now recovering very slowly. Meanwhile he's getting older and gaining weight.

abacomike

andres3 said:

I'd argue diminished value occurs the second the accident happens. One moment the owner can sell his vehicle for full market value, the next second, you are looking at 60 days of repairs and it'll never sell for full market value again. Your ability to sell property has been diminished immediately; the loss occurs instantly. Is the loss mitigated by keeping the car; yes. However, that shouldn't be the owners problem. Claims should be based on the date of loss, period, end of story.

Regardless of when it occurs it isn't realized until the vehicle is disposed of, if you even realize it. Once the vehicle is repaired you are pretty much made whole. Your car is back and properly running and looks like it did prior to the accident. Any diminished value isn't realized until it is sold and then it is nearly impossible to quantify the "loss" or even if it occured.

Used car managers have no problem assessing diminished value. It only seems insurance people have a problem with it. It is always realized unless you find a buyer that doesn't care, which is unlikely to happen. A car that has been repaired is never the same, and will never look the same. 100% of trained used car manager's will know when a vehicle has been repaired 100% of the time; that tells you something. It's not 99%, it's 100% no matter how good the body shop is. The quantity of diminished value is the difference you'd be able to get selling your car unblemished on the free market vs. what you can get with the damaged car.

100% of used car managers/appraisers could not possibly identify ALL cars that have been repaired or refinished.  75% or 80% maybe, but never 100%.  Often when one of my appraisers found no repaint or refinish on a trade I would find it on a reappraisal.  It all depends on color, area repainted or refinished and change in reflective surfaces and orange peeling.

The most difficult areas to spot are bumpers.  Today's paints are matched by computer technology and mixed by hue, tint and reflectivity.  Any plastic areas painted tend to fade with age naturally (bumpers and quarter panels) so frequently there could be a slight variation in color after 2-3 years.  That's natural, especially in the warmer environs of the southern and southwestern states.

That is why I would ALWAYS pull up a CARFAX on every car we appraised.Diminished value is determined if a refinish or repaint was identified.  We usually used a 10% deduction in value on the wholesale value of the trade.  

But 100% of all appraisers is plain fantasy!!!

oldfarmer50

abacomike said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

I'd argue diminished value occurs the second the accident happens. One moment the owner can sell his vehicle for full market value, the next second, you are looking at 60 days of repairs and it'll never sell for full market value again. Your ability to sell property has been diminished immediately; the loss occurs instantly. Is the loss mitigated by keeping the car; yes. However, that shouldn't be the owners problem. Claims should be based on the date of loss, period, end of story.

Regardless of when it occurs it isn't realized until the vehicle is disposed of, if you even realize it. Once the vehicle is repaired you are pretty much made whole. Your car is back and properly running and looks like it did prior to the accident. Any diminished value isn't realized until it is sold and then it is nearly impossible to quantify the "loss" or even if it occured.

Used car managers have no problem assessing diminished value. It only seems insurance people have a problem with it. It is always realized unless you find a buyer that doesn't care, which is unlikely to happen. A car that has been repaired is never the same, and will never look the same. 100% of trained used car manager's will know when a vehicle has been repaired 100% of the time; that tells you something. It's not 99%, it's 100% no matter how good the body shop is. The quantity of diminished value is the difference you'd be able to get selling your car unblemished on the free market vs. what you can get with the damaged car.

100% of used car managers/appraisers could not possibly identify ALL cars that have been repaired or refinished.  75% or 80% maybe, but never 100%.  Often when one of my appraisers found no repaint or refinish on a trade I would find it on a reappraisal.  It all depends on color, area repainted or refinished and change in reflective surfaces and orange peeling.

The most difficult areas to spot are bumpers.  Today's paints are matched by computer technology and mixed by hue, tint and reflectivity.  Any plastic areas painted tend to fade with age naturally (bumpers and quarter panels) so frequently there could be a slight variation in color after 2-3 years.  That's natural, especially in the warmer environs of the southern and southwestern states.

That is why I would ALWAYS pull up a CARFAX on every car we appraised.Diminished value is determined if a refinish or repaint was identified.  We usually used a 10% deduction in value on the wholesale value of the trade.  

But 100% of all appraisers is plain fantasy!!!

Funny you mention bumper repaints. I was walking through a large store parking lot yesterday and was noticing a lot of cars with paint peeling/cracking on the bumpers. I thought to myself "repaint".

When I had some super market cart scratches repaired on my rear Eclipse bumper I told my guy that I wanted it painted better than new. He must have done a good job because the Ford dealer who took it in trade never noticed.

I've heard that dealers use a paint depth meter to determine repainting. Is that true?

abacomike

@oldfarmer50 said:

"I've heard that dealers use a paint depth meter to determine repainting.  Is that true?"

Yes, most do.  But when a bumper or any other plastic piece on a car is repainted, they use a chemical on the plastic that makes it super-porous to allow the paint and primer to be absorbed/bonded with the plastic molecules.  It's how they paint bumpers at the factory where the car is originally manufactured.  Depending upon how direct or indirect sunlight is reflected off a car, there is always a slight variation in the reflective hue of the paint color on the front and rear bumpers - almost imperceptible to most people.  Paint is absorbed right into the plastic through this bonding.  It's the clear coat that makes the colors look almost identical.

This process is not always used by all collision shops and that is why you will notice peeling of paint off bumpers.

graphicguy

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

RE: Diminished Value That's a bit of a quibble isn't it, Snake? DV is sorta like a balloon payment on a loan. You don't pay the balloon until your time is up, but it's still an unavoidable debt---or in the case of DV, deficit.

RE: Scotch -- I can confidently taste the difference between cheap scotch and good, but I doubt I could identify the $1600 bottle in a blind tasting. I do volunteer to try, though.

I have had some real good $30 bottles of scotch and I have had some pretty bad $125 bottles of scotch. Price does not always equate to quality.

Now THAT is very true. I've had some bad tasting, but uber expensive adult drinks in my life that you'd not get me to try ever again, even if it was free. Mentioned the Pappy Van Winkle Bourbon at $3K/fifth. Might drink it again for free. But wouldn't pay, as I just didn't see/taste why it costs so much.

Large costs of some of these spirit and wine bottles have more to do with artificially restricting supply, driving up the consumer's appetite to acquire them and thus, the price.

graphicguy

coldinohio said:

wow-- lots of posts since I last read

hope all better in Miami, mike;

agree with GG-- prefer KY bourbon over scotch; found a four roses thats really nice and not too $$$

test drives: wife looking to replace 10 yo subaru tribeca, that has been a workhorse; wife wants a wagon

Subaru-- they must sell everything as dealer stock seems limited; impreza, outback, forester waga\ons all functional-- just not as nice as my audi

audi-- went for wash so I could clay bar and way A4 later; drove A3, A4-- really nice; sat in RS5-- wow, used

tesla-- drove top end S (P90D) ; ludicris mode is amazing and with the low Center of gravity, corners at speed ; if I have 140K, that would be on the list; the new Tesla 3 should be interesting

I like 4 Roses, too.

Ended up getting in from Chicago early yesterday a.m. Went to a local car show (Sharonville) that I didn't think I'd make it to.

Beautiful day, great show...a ton of 'vettes. Ran into a guy with '98 Cobra 'vert. He's owned it since new....40K miles, and he lets it sit in his garage. Great condition. Need some guru advice. He wasn't 100% committed to selling it, but said he might. His wife said it definitely is for sale. So, clearly he's doing a lot of tactical negotiations (maybe I will, maybe in won't).

Drove it. Seems 100%. 5-speed. Really needs nothing, even has a new battery. Driver's leather seat shows some "crinkling", but that's expected. No dings but 4-5 paint chips, nothing I'd even bother to try and repair. Top is good.

What say you guys? What's it worth?

stickguy

To me, bumper skins don't really count. Not like metal or paint work!

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

coldinohio said:

wow-- lots of posts since I last read

hope all better in Miami, mike;

agree with GG-- prefer KY bourbon over scotch; found a four roses thats really nice and not too $$$

test drives: wife looking to replace 10 yo subaru tribeca, that has been a workhorse; wife wants a wagon

Subaru-- they must sell everything as dealer stock seems limited; impreza, outback, forester waga\ons all functional-- just not as nice as my audi

audi-- went for wash so I could clay bar and way A4 later; drove A3, A4-- really nice; sat in RS5-- wow, used

tesla-- drove top end S (P90D) ; ludicris mode is amazing and with the low Center of gravity, corners at speed ; if I have 140K, that would be on the list; the new Tesla 3 should be interesting

I like 4 Roses, too.

Ended up getting in from Chicago early yesterday a.m. Went to a local car show (Sharonville) that I didn't think I'd make it to.

Beautiful day, great show...a ton of 'vettes. Ran into a guy with '98 Cobra 'vert. He's owned it since new....40K miles, and he lets it sit in his garage. Great condition. Need some guru advice. He wasn't 100% committed to selling it, but said he might. His wife said it definitely is for sale. So, clearly he's doing a lot of tactical negotiations (maybe I will, maybe in won't).

Drove it. Seems 100%. 5-speed. Really needs nothing, even has a new battery. Driver's leather seat shows some "crinkling", but that's expected. No dings but 4-5 paint chips, nothing I'd even bother to try and repair. Top is good.

What say you guys? What's it worth?

Embarrassed to say I'm not even sure what car you're talking about. Is it a Corvette or a Shelby Cobra?

On any car it's only worth what you're willing to pay. I hope you treated the guy's wife REAL good because she's the key to this negotiation.

stickguy

I assume it is a mustang cobra.

graphicguy

Sorry about that....Mustang Cobra.

qbrozen

andres3 said:

If you are really concerned, you should look at trucks, semi's, airplanes, trains, ships/boats, and more that pollute far more than little 4-banger VW's.

Again, why compare one to another in this case? Someone goes on a mass murdering spree with a chainsaw and another kills one person with a knife, and you are saying the one with the knife should get a pass because it wasn't as gruesome? Any comparison is just silly. Like I said, this isn't a contest and isn't graded on a curve.

Mr_Shiftright

stickguy said:

I assume it is a mustang cobra.

Hmmm.....maybe $8500--$9000 if it's really nice?

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

Sorry about that....Mustang Cobra.

Don't be sorry, I'm the dumb one.

Mustang Cobra....mmmmmmm...nice. Has the 4.6L 4 valve like in my Lincoln. 305hp. 300ftlbs of torque. Very nice. About 20 more of each than mine. Pretty heavy for a small car (3400) but with the right rear end it would scream.

What's it worth? No idea but here's one in Florida with twice the milage asking $9300.



http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/cto/5486630351.html

imidazol97

andres3 said:

If you are really concerned, you should look at trucks, semi's, airplanes, trains, ships/boats, and more that pollute far more than little 4-banger VW's.

I'll look at the laws applicable to the particular vehicles in question and Volkswagen/Audi/Porsche company blatantly violated them with intent to deceive. The punishment should be complete disbanding of the company and selling the parts to the highest bidder.

I'll treat this the same way many did want to treat GM--and some still do want to complain about the long gone GM/C bailout.

graphicguy

Thank for the input. Only one I saw on "fleabay" was $4K. I thought that was way too low.

Not a whole lot of them for sale looking at other car sites, either. NADA has them pegged at a little under $7K, full retail.

This one's very nice, though. Not ragged out. And, the owner is a retired Ford employee. So, it's truly been owned by a "mature" gentleman (vs someone like me who might use the car as a derelict would).

OF...the one I'm looking at is every bit as nice as the yellow one you posted, maybe nicer. It's red metallic with tan leather. Pretty darned sharp.

Perhaps that $8K number works. Want to look at it, again.

imidazol97

Mr_Shiftright

I said $8500 because of the low miles premium. I didn't see anything at $7K here in California.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

Is that your? Nice. I'm short a convertible for my summer fleet. My budget will probably force me into a sebring or Lebaron. I showed my wife a picture of a Mustang vert once and she said "you already have a Mustang" while she gave me that "look".

She just doesn't understand.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

Is that your? Nice. I'm short a convertible for my summer fleet. My budget will probably force me into a sebring or Lebaron.

Not mine, but I think it's what GG was describing in colors. I'm not sure the exhaust pipes are what's in the car he's looking at. Is that the stock appearance?

stickguy

If someone offered me that red one for $7,500, I'd bite.

oldfarmer50

If GG can get that one for $7500 he should jump on it. The dealers are asking a lot more for a lot less.

http://www.listingallcars.com/results/New-Used-CPO

roadburner

I didn't really get excited about the Mustangs of that era until the facelift that kind up sharpened up the design; I love the 2001 Bullitt as well as the 2003-2004 Mach 1.

stickguy

I seem to recall the seats being really nasty. Not sure if the special models had better seats

graphicguy

imidazol97 said:

That's the color....identical.

Mr Shiftright.....I'll take your number as "the number" as you know better than I do. Going to look at it again here in about an hour or so.

snakeweasel

abacomike said:

andres3 said:

snakeweasel said:

andres3 said:

I'd argue diminished value occurs the second the accident happens. One moment the owner can sell his vehicle for full market value, the next second, you are looking at 60 days of repairs and it'll never sell for full market value again. Your ability to sell property has been diminished immediately; the loss occurs instantly. Is the loss mitigated by keeping the car; yes. However, that shouldn't be the owners problem. Claims should be based on the date of loss, period, end of story.

Regardless of when it occurs it isn't realized until the vehicle is disposed of, if you even realize it. Once the vehicle is repaired you are pretty much made whole. Your car is back and properly running and looks like it did prior to the accident. Any diminished value isn't realized until it is sold and then it is nearly impossible to quantify the "loss" or even if it occured.

Used car managers have no problem assessing diminished value. It only seems insurance people have a problem with it. It is always realized unless you find a buyer that doesn't care, which is unlikely to happen. A car that has been repaired is never the same, and will never look the same. 100% of trained used car manager's will know when a vehicle has been repaired 100% of the time; that tells you something. It's not 99%, it's 100% no matter how good the body shop is. The quantity of diminished value is the difference you'd be able to get selling your car unblemished on the free market vs. what you can get with the damaged car.

100% of used car managers/appraisers could not possibly identify ALL cars that have been repaired or refinished.  75% or 80% maybe, but never 100%.  Often when one of my appraisers found no repaint or refinish on a trade I would find it on a reappraisal.  It all depends on color, area repainted or refinished and change in reflective surfaces and orange peeling.

The most difficult areas to spot are bumpers.  Today's paints are matched by computer technology and mixed by hue, tint and reflectivity.  Any plastic areas painted tend to fade with age naturally (bumpers and quarter panels) so frequently there could be a slight variation in color after 2-3 years.  That's natural, especially in the warmer environs of the southern and southwestern states.

That is why I would ALWAYS pull up a CARFAX on every car we appraised.Diminished value is determined if a refinish or repaint was identified.  We usually used a 10% deduction in value on the wholesale value of the trade.  

But 100% of all appraisers is plain fantasy!!!

I have to agree and I am glad someone else said that.

Now a 10% reduction if it is determined if a refinish or repaint was identified without identifying the reason for such a refinish or repaint just supports the idea that "diminished value" cannot be quantified. Seems like that way someone repairing a small scratch on the bumper gets dinged as much as someone who sustained $6K in damages. Hardly seems right.

snakeweasel

graphicguy said:

snakeweasel said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

RE: Diminished Value That's a bit of a quibble isn't it, Snake? DV is sorta like a balloon payment on a loan. You don't pay the balloon until your time is up, but it's still an unavoidable debt---or in the case of DV, deficit.

RE: Scotch -- I can confidently taste the difference between cheap scotch and good, but I doubt I could identify the $1600 bottle in a blind tasting. I do volunteer to try, though.

I have had some real good $30 bottles of scotch and I have had some pretty bad $125 bottles of scotch. Price does not always equate to quality.

Now THAT is very true. I've had some bad tasting, but uber expensive adult drinks in my life that you'd not get me to try ever again, even if it was free. Mentioned the Pappy Van Winkle Bourbon at $3K/fifth. Might drink it again for free. But wouldn't pay, as I just didn't see/taste why it costs so much.

Large costs of some of these spirit and wine bottles have more to do with artificially restricting supply, driving up the consumer's appetite to acquire them and thus, the price.

I was on a cruise two summers ago and they had a whisky tasting of all things Johnnie Walker. I tried the Blue label and while good it wasn't the $150 a bottle good, I have had better scotches costing under $40.

As for the large cost of some of these whiskies is due to the nature of the beast. Time and Angels have their impact on what a whiskey costs. Whiskey evaporates as it ages (called the "Angels share") and a 20 year old whiskey can lose more that 40% of it volume and a 25 year old upwards to 50%. What this means is that if I age some of my whiskey to 12 years and the rest to 25 years I would have to charge 35-40% more for the 25 year whiskey to get the same amount of money out of a barrel of the 25 year whiskey as I can get out of the 12 year old whiskey. Add the time value of money and to make it more profitable to age whiskey to 25 years over 12 years you will need to charge at least twice what you charge for the 12 year old stuff.

snakeweasel

qbrozen said:

andres3 said:

If you are really concerned, you should look at trucks, semi's, airplanes, trains, ships/boats, and more that pollute far more than little 4-banger VW's.

Again, why compare one to another in this case? Someone goes on a mass murdering spree with a chainsaw and another kills one person with a knife, and you are saying the one with the knife should get a pass because it wasn't as gruesome? Any comparison is just silly. Like I said, this isn't a contest and isn't graded on a curve.

Another thing to consider is that say a 747 carries a couple of hundred people while the VW 4 or 5. So how much pollution is given out per passenger mile? is it one 747 flying from NY to LA or 50 VW's driving from NY to LA that is polluting more?

abacomike

"I have to agree and I am glad someone else said that. Now a 10% reduction if it is determined if a refinish or repaint was identified without identifying the reason for such a refinish or repaint just supports the idea that "diminished value" cannot be quantified. Seems like that way someone repairing a small scratch on the bumper gets dinged as much as someone who sustained $6K in damages. Hardly seem..."

Diminished value cannot accurately be determined until the car is sold or traded.  Thus, the appraiser/dealership appraising the car must attach a diminished value if the car had a repaint and/or refinish in order to prepare for a loss in value.

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

imidazol97 said:

That's the color....identical.

Mr Shiftright.....I'll take your number as "the number" as you know better than I do. Going to look at it again here in about an hour or so.

Bring flowers for the wife...I'm not kidding.

abacomike

I'm watching the Chicago Blackhawk hockey game on NBC sports network.  I am an avid Blackhawk fan - our Panthers are a "not ready for prime time" team.  I would love to see the Blackhawks move to next next level. 

driver100

Driver like red Mustang!

driver100

abacomike said:

I'm watching the Chicago Blackhawk hockey game on NBC sports network.  I am an avid Blackhawk fan - our Panthers are a "not ready for prime time" team.  I would love to see the Blackhawks move to next next level. 

Hmmmm....hockey, good for you!

graphicguy

So....took another look at the Mustang Cobra SVT. It's all that and a bag of chips. Fun car. Strong drivetrain. Everything works. Top is in good shape. Surprisingly comfortable given how well it handles. Didn't push it since the tires were showing some signs of dry rot, but it will scoot. Trans and clutch are heavy compared to today's standards, but it all works as it should.

It will rev, which is fun. Didn't take it to redline because it was a cold start. But did take it to about 5,500 RPM. Redline is 7K. It feels like it will do that all day long.

It makes great sounds. It's also bone stock, which I like.

As mentioned, some dry rot on the tires. Tread is good, but wouldn't want to take a chance with them....especially given I would probably drive.....well....at speeds that I shouldn't.

It's been well cared for, but not driven much, at least not lately. I told him it was a nice car. I made no secret of my interest.

He wanted $12K, and said he really wasn't sure he wanted to sell it. I told him we were too far apart and I would not insult him with my offer. He wanted to know what my offer was, though.

I told him the only amount I could come up with was $8,500. He proceeded to tell me again he didn't have to sell it. I told him he should keep it then because it is a very nice car.

I thanked him for his time and started making me way towards me car. He followed me down the driveway and asked if I was willing to go $10K. So, he seemed a bit more willing to negotiate. I told him it was well over my budget, but I'd think about it.

I want to do more research. Good car, though.