Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations (Archived)

imidazol97

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roadburner said:

I just talked with our detail man believe it or not he has a home brewed mix that he uses. Me, I'd probably go with Chemical Guys, Griot's Garage, or Meguiar's.

My all-time favorite leather care product is Zymol Treat, but it's a bit pricey.

Thanks for checking. I'm not surprised he has a mix he makes up himself. Guy who did our woodwork stain when house built in 1975 did the same thing. Impossible to match for repair work.

And I'll check into the Zymol Treat for leather.

imidazol97

graphicguy said:

2nd on the Zymol treatment. Good stuff (and yes, pricey)!

Any chance of Zymol 301 taking some color out of leather?

I had gotten Mother's leather conditioner and I found it was taking some of the buttery tone out of the light color leather on my leSabre with the two tone leather seats. I went ahead and did all the seats with it but used Macguiars after that.

abacomike

imidazol97 said:

Speaking of new cars..., I had mentioned the new car smell had finally left my '14 Malibu. When I opened the door after it sits overnight, that rush of leather and new car smell was gone.

I looked for new car smell in a bottle and found it. The mirror hangers and the other new car smell scent packs often got negative reviews. But the Chemical Guys seemed to get good mention about using both scents together. . They have a new car smell and a leather scent. I noticed a package of both in spray bottles on Amazon so I ordered. On Sunday it came and I spritzed a couple squirts of both into the Malibu on the carpet and under the seat. It definitely refreshed the new car smell, but was strong. I left the windows open a couple nights in the garage and I'm back to a gentle whiff of new car smell when I open the doors.

I also found that the Macguiar's leather conditioner gold I have leaves a lingering scent somewhat like the leather scent by Chemical Guys. And I may have the only Cobalt with cloth seats that has a fresh new smell and a leather after scent.

Recommendation: use one squirt under driver's seat. Then see how much more to add after a few days.
</blockquote



Sounds more like an underarm deodorant rather than a freshener - one skirt - two skirts - too many skirts?

houdini1

If you ever want to experience a kangaroo court up close and personal, just appeal the value of your home on a tax assessment. The "independent judge" and the tax assessor were a brutal tag team that really never let me lay out my case.

There is a limit to the time spent on each appeal. It is like 15 or 20 minutes. My mistake was asking a question right up front. The assessor started to filibuster, answering by bringing up the most minute detail about how the appeal process works, etc. Every time I would try to interrupt, the "judge" would scold me and say I would get nowhere by having a bad attitude. I finally had had enough and told him just what I thought about his attitude.

I actually won the appeal because I was right but they reduced the amount of the assessment by such a tiny amount that it made no difference.

abacomike

As far as GG bringing an attorney to the BBB arbitration hearing, I would tend to agree! But not for the reason GG should be aggressive or litigant - merely to put GG's mind at ease. If GG has a friend or acquaintance who is an attorney, that would be sufficient. But to pay an attorney $300 - $500 an hour plus expenses to be briefed on what has transpired in order to prepare for the arbitration hearing and then to sit there with him at this point in the process might be overkill. Remember, if GG disagrees with the BBB's decision, he has other avenues or rights - like bringing suit against GM/Cadillac.

It's all what GG feels comfortable with - not what I would feel comfortable doing. It's just my take on this that GM/Cadillac is going to make an offer to GG to settle the dispute. That offer could be to replace the car, refund his money, offer him a better car, or they might even ask GG what he thinks would be sufficient or fair - no one knows at t his point. That's why I would not get terribly upset with the hearing process at this juncture.

Remember, the BBB asked GG to bring his car to the hearing - and GG's response was that it has no engine in it because it's been at the dealer's service department for 3 months and is still sitting there. Then, GG stated to us that the BBB representative was a bit puzzled over that statement - been in the service department for 3 months and currently has no engine in it.

If the arbiter settles the case by offering GG a new car, then what? He just bought a new car. That means that he would have two new cars in his driveway along with the sports car. Of course, GG just would need to sell the car back to a dealer or put it up for sale - just making things a bit more frustrating.

If GG will settle for nothing less than a refund of money, then I would then suggest that he bring an attorney. But if he is willing to accept a new replacement car or a better new car, I don't think the attorney is a necessity.

Just my two cents worth!

abacomike

Trying to edit this, but it won't let me. I meant to type in "squirts", not "skirts"! :@

tjc78

Door hinges.... really guys?

Anyway,
@graphicguy
I think I'd get a lawyer too, you just never know what spin they will try to put on this.   Your conversation with the BBB really is priceless.  

Re: leather 
I really like Lexol, that is my go to.  I have the Zymol as well and find they are pretty equal.  Lexol is a little cheaper.  

imidazol97

Having a bad day: Saw a Ford Explorer, several years old, along right side of I75 in downtown Dayton. It was sitting on the brake rotor on the left front. Flashers on.

The good day part: 300 ft later along left side across 3 lanes sitting against barrier wall was the left front wheel. Add lug nuts. Reattach. And he's ready to go again. There were no ruts on road where the brake rotor was gouging into the asphalt pavement so the wheel must have come off just as driver found the right berm. So no damage to the rotor and underside of vehicle I hope.

Retrieving the tire and wheel will require some police assistance, LOL.

fintail

I wonder what happened to Infiniti, legit complaints or people whining about mpg or complex electronics?

thebean

imidazol97 said:

Having a bad day: Saw a Ford Explorer, several years old, along right side of I75 in downtown Dayton. It was sitting on the brake rotor on the left front. Flashers on. The good day part: 300 ft later along left side across 3 lanes sitting against barrier wall was the left front wheel. Add lug nuts. Reattach. And he's ready to go again. There were no ruts on road where the brake rotor was gouging into the asphalt pavement so the wheel must have come off just as driver found the right berm. So no damage to the rotor and underside of vehicle I hope. Retrieving the tire and wheel will require some police assistance, LOL.

Apparently whoever worked on the car was sick on Lug Nut Day.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

Speaking of new cars..., I had mentioned the new car smell had finally left my '14 Malibu. When I opened the door after it sits overnight, that rush of leather and new car smell was gone.

I looked for new car smell in a bottle and found it. The mirror hangers and the other new car smell scent packs often got negative reviews. But the Chemical Guys seemed to get good mention about using both scents together. . They have a new car smell and a leather scent. I noticed a package of both in spray bottles on Amazon so I ordered. On Sunday it came and I spritzed a couple squirts of both into the Malibu on the carpet and under the seat. It definitely refreshed the new car smell, but was strong. I left the windows open a couple nights in the garage and I'm back to a gentle whiff of new car smell when I open the doors.

I also found that the Macguiar's leather conditioner gold I have leaves a lingering scent somewhat like the leather scent by Chemical Guys. And I may have the only Cobalt with cloth seats that has a fresh new smell and a leather after scent.

Recommendation: use one squirt under driver's seat. Then see how much more to add after a few days.

Mike should buy that stuff....he could have saved $1000s!

driver100

I wrote to my sales guy to see what was happening.....we fly back on Sunday April 2nd so I really want my car ready on Monday April 3rd.

This was part of his reply,

I have good news, your E400 has left Halifax and is on a priority private truck to Ontario. It will arrive in Concord and then it will be sent to the dealership.

We are expecting it here in about 2 weeks. Once it arrives I will let you know and we can arrange a pick up date.

A little different treatment than what GG is getting. I have been treated in the classiest and most respectful manner possible. I know that could change, but for now, they certainly earn the benefit of the doubt. GGs experience is like dealing with the mob.

driver100

houdini1 said:

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

JM, Glad you didn't get blown up.

The pictures don't show the hinge well enough......size is wrong and some of the pictures I want to use are encrypted for some reason...like someone is going to steal them.

I will try again, all I remember is when my friend pointed out how thin the hinge was in the A4 I was surprised;
A4





C300



Mercedes is short and chunky, A4 is long and very thin metal.

Thanks for doing more research but from these pics, the A4 hinge looks stronger to me than the Mercedes hinge. I'm sure they both do the job they were designed to do otherwise the doors would be drooping and binding.

jmonroe

I agree, the screws with the mercedes hinge look awful small and flimsy. Maybe a weak link.

Well at least we know you should see a doctor about your dyslexic problem houdini. Some good has come out of those pictures.

graphicguy

IMID....I think it depends on the quality of the dye and the leather. I've used Zaino leather care, Zymol and Legolas. I like them all. Didn't have issues of dye rubbing off on any cars except the '90s era Grand Prix I had. That was a long time ago, though. Pontiac wasn't using very good leathers back then.

Conversely, the leather on my Cobra isn't supposed to be good, but I've had no issues, even using leather cleaners (Zymol).

OHIO's lemon law states there are no penalties for mileage on a buyback. The AG will only get involved after arbitration.

Mike, I will not accept another Cadillac. I will go to arbitration. My guess is Cadillac will get the CTS running by the arbitration date. If I lose in arbitration, I'll go to the AG and take Cadillac to court.

This will cost GM more the longer this goes. They've screwed me enough. Not gonna let them do it again!

driver100

explorerx4 said:

Driver100, What is JD Power's definition of a problem?

Good question. All I can find was this:
J.D. Power 2017 Dependability Ratings & Awards

The Vehicle Dependability Study (VDS) examines issues reported by original owners of 3-year-old vehicles. This study measures car reliability by analyzing problems experienced over the past 12 months of ownership in such areas as: features and controls; engine and transmission;entertainment and navigation; heating and cooling; the overall driving experience, and more.

Not sure how they judge "overall driving experience and more". They do say the number of battery related problems has really gone up lately....I have a feeling all those electronics are draining batteries faster than people are used to. It sounds like if a car has a score of 120 for example, it could mean for every 100 cars sold, they all had one problem in 3 years and 20 cars had 2 problems. Of course 80 cars could have no problems and 20 cars could have 5 problems. And then they don't grade the problems, like having an electronic problem is much worse than having a missing air tire cap.

I guess it is all relative....fewer problems is probably a good thing.

oldfarmer50

'

imidazol97 said:

Having a bad day: Saw a Ford Explorer, several years old, along right side of I75 in downtown Dayton. It was sitting on the brake rotor on the left front. Flashers on.

The good day part: 300 ft later along left side across 3 lanes sitting against barrier wall was the left front wheel. Add lug nuts. Reattach. And he's ready to go again. There were no ruts on road where the brake rotor was gouging into the asphalt pavement so the wheel must have come off just as driver found the right berm. So no damage to the rotor and underside of vehicle I hope.

Retrieving the tire and wheel will require some police assistance, LOL.

I think the shop that forgot to tighten the lug nuts will be the one who has the worse day. Had that happen after a Midas Muffler brake job years ago but recognized what the noise was and stopped right away.

imidazol97

Here's a good paper on the topic:

"...in order to stay impartial and deliver unbiased results, JDP funds
all of its own syndicated research."

http://www.ijest-ng.com/vol3_no7/ijest-ng-vol3-no7-pp101-108.pdf

ab348

driver100 said:

I wrote to my sales guy to see what was happening.....we fly back on Sunday April 2nd so I really want my car ready on Monday April 3rd.

This was part of his reply,

I have good news, your E400 has left Halifax and is on a priority private truck to Ontario. It will arrive in Concord and then it will be sent to the dealership.

We are expecting it here in about 2 weeks. Once it arrives I will let you know and we can arrange a pick up date.

A little different treatment than what GG is getting. I have been treated in the classiest and most respectful manner possible. I know that could change, but for now, they certainly earn the benefit of the doubt. GGs experience is like dealing with the mob.

That priority private truck must be going from Halifax to Toronto by way of Miami if it takes 2 weeks. Maybe you should flag it down when it passes through your neighborhood.

ab348

driver100 said:

It would be very interesting to know if some manufacturers try to settle lemon cases in a more user friendly way. From GGs experience, we can see GM is taking things to the limit, Toyota did too in the sludge and acceleration cases, but I wonder if others are as tough....it would be nice to see statistics.

Our man GG should be able to shed some light on this for you since this is his 7th or 8th buyback/exchange situation IIRC.

driver100

imidazol97 said:

Here's a good paper on the topic:

"...in order to stay impartial and deliver unbiased results, JDP funds
all of its own syndicated research."

http://www.ijest-ng.com/vol3_no7/ijest-ng-vol3-no7-pp101-108.pdf

That tells you everything you need to know about CR and JDP surveys.

One big drawback in JDP survey was:
He asks even if we assume JDP’s surveys accurately reflect public opinion, does that public really know what it's talking
about. He writes: “Alternatively, it may be that the sort of people who do fill out questionnaires -- the same folks who go through
life sending their steak back because they wanted it medium well, not medium -- skew J.D. Power's survey not toward intelligent
criticism, but toward querulous complaint. People who care too much about being satisfied customers do not necessarily have a
tighter grip on reality than people who care too little, like me”

They also criticized the fact a broken down engine has the same value as a badly placed drink holder.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

I wrote to my sales guy to see what was happening.....we fly back on Sunday April 2nd so I really want my car ready on Monday April 3rd.

This was part of his reply,

I have good news, your E400 has left Halifax and is on a priority private truck to Ontario. It will arrive in Concord and then it will be sent to the dealership.

We are expecting it here in about 2 weeks. Once it arrives I will let you know and we can arrange a pick up date.

A little different treatment than what GG is getting. I have been treated in the classiest and most respectful manner possible. I know that could change, but for now, they certainly earn the benefit of the doubt. GGs experience is like dealing with the mob.

That priority private truck must be going from Halifax to Toronto by way of Miami if it takes 2 weeks. Maybe you should flag it down when it passes through your neighborhood.

Do only GM owners build up sarcasm and doubt?

Comments are funny, but I am sure there is a reason why it takes as long as it does.

Still, 4 months to build a car, ship it overseas, wait for the government to certify it, get it ready, ship it to distribution center in Ontario, get it to the dealer.....compared to 3 months waiting for a harness.

stickguy

good news driver, you are getting an extra 3 months of warranty. If your original plan had gone through, it would have been sitting in your garage with the clock ticking.

driver100

ab348 said:

driver100 said:

It would be very interesting to know if some manufacturers try to settle lemon cases in a more user friendly way. From GGs experience, we can see GM is taking things to the limit, Toyota did too in the sludge and acceleration cases, but I wonder if others are as tough....it would be nice to see statistics.

Our man GG should be able to shed some light on this for you since this is his 7th or 8th buyback/exchange situation IIRC.

I think it is a total of 4. It would be interesting to know how J D Powers would handle GGs survey. Does a lemon count as 1, and does each car count as a total or does it start over again with each new car?

driver100

stickguy said:

good news driver, you are getting an extra 3 months of warranty. If your original plan had gone through, it would have been sitting in your garage with the clock ticking.

Really good point stick.........you always come through.
Maybe it was meant to get tied up by a government agency, someone is looking out for me.

suydam

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

Here's a good paper on the topic:

"...in order to stay impartial and deliver unbiased results, JDP funds
all of its own syndicated research."

http://www.ijest-ng.com/vol3_no7/ijest-ng-vol3-no7-pp101-108.pdf

That tells you everything you need to know about CR and JDP surveys.

One big drawback in JDP survey was:
He asks even if we assume JDP’s surveys accurately reflect public opinion, does that public really know what it's talking
about. He writes: “Alternatively, it may be that the sort of people who do fill out questionnaires -- the same folks who go through
life sending their steak back because they wanted it medium well, not medium -- skew J.D. Power's survey not toward intelligent
criticism, but toward querulous complaint. People who care too much about being satisfied customers do not necessarily have a
tighter grip on reality than people who care too little, like me”

They also criticized the fact a broken down engine has the same value as a badly placed drink holder.

CR separates out those kinds of of reliability items, and uses more data over a longer period. Almost all data collection comes from people willing to fill out forms and submit them.

abacomike

graphicguy said:

IMID....I think it depends on the quality of the dye and the leather. I've used Zaino leather care, Zymol and Legolas. I like them all. Didn't have issues of dye rubbing off on any cars except the '90s era Grand Prix I had. That was a long time ago, though. Pontiac wasn't using very good leathers back then. Conversely, the leather on my Cobra isn't supposed to be good, but I've had no issues, even using leather cleaners (Zymol). OHIO's lemon law states there are no penalties for mileage on a buyback. The AG will only get involved after arbitration. Mike, I will not accept another Cadillac. I will go to arbitration. My guess is Cadillac will get the CTS running by the arbitration date. If I lose in arbitration, I'll go to the AG and take Cadillac to court. This will cost GM more the longer this goes. They've screwed me enough. Not gonna let them do it again!

That's a reason to bring an attorney with you, then.  If the only acceptable result is a complete refund, then you must present, in a unconditional way, your rationale for a buyout rather than a replacement or better car.  An attorney will be able to present the case for a complete refund objectively and lay out the experience(s) you have had with Cadillac and customer service.  If you represent yourself, it would be a more subjective rather than objective rationale presentation because you were directly involved in this 3-month fiasco and are more emotional than an attorney would be.

Just trying to assist you in getting the arbiter to rule in your favor at this lower level.  My opinion is that you are going to need some professional, objective and well organized presentation of the facts, that's all.  

abacomike

driver100 said:

I wrote to my sales guy to see what was happening.....we fly back on Sunday April 2nd so I really want my car ready on Monday April 3rd. This was part of his reply, I have good news, your E400 has left Halifax and is on a priority private truck to Ontario. It will arrive in Concord and then it will be sent to the dealership. We are expecting it here in about 2 weeks. Once it arrives I will let you know and we can arrange a pick up date. A little different treatment than what GG is getting. I have been treated in the classiest and most respectful manner possible. I know that could change, but for now, they certainly earn the benefit of the doubt. GGs experience is like dealing with the mob.

Good news driver.  My suggestion is that you go over that new E400 with a fine tooth comb for nicks, scratches, dings, etc.  Also that you drive the car for 20-30 minutes before signing off on it to make sure it is performing to your satisfaction. 

imidazol97

suydam said:

CR separates out those kinds of of reliability items, and uses more data over a longer period. Almost all data collection comes from people willing to fill out forms and submit them.

The version of the paper that I read and linked to seemed to like the idea that CU buys cars and tests them while JDP collects data only. The problem for me is which cars does CU choose to buy and how careful are they about buying cars equipped as most buyers of that car would buy them other than those buying at the bargain end of the spectrum.

I sensed that the paper's authors liked the idea that CU buys cars and used that to avoid the problem with the lack of randomness of CU's convenience type survey. I kept getting the feeling that the authors did not like JDP. I believe the Missouri school involved was the same one from which the professor put out the demonstration of toyota's drive-by-wire accelerator system had faults. Do I recall that he lost the grant from toyota for research after that or was fired? LOL

imidazol97

I see that I misspelled Meguiar's in my earlier posts.

suydam

Doesn't Edmunds buy cars for its long term reviews too? Both groups tend to buy well equipped cars so they can test most of the features. I'm not sure what you mean by the term convenience survey. CR has a very large database going back several years, which allows them to recommend used cars best bets. The JDPowers survey lists problems in the last 12 months. BTW CR ranked Infiniti quite highly.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

I see that I misspelled Meguiar's in my earlier posts.

Are you apologizing or bragging?

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

Are you apologizing or bragging?

Apologizing, hoping I don't get embarrassed again like when I immigrated all of Swedens legal citizens into the small country of Switzerland. LOL. I need a better spelling checker.

imidazol97

@suydam
Convenience sampling:

A quick google search found many responses. This one seemed thorough so I'm posting from within its thorough discussion.
http://blog.verint.com/customer-engagement/convenience-samples-pros-and-cons

"The disadvantages:
Convenience samples do not produce representative results. If you need to extrapolate to the target population, convenience samples aren’t going to get you there.
For example, there was the 2008 AOL poll with 272,939 votes in which 61% of respondents voted for John McCain for U.S. President and 39% for Obama. Much larger convenience samples are not more accurate than small probability samples.
At the 2009 CASRO Data Collection Conference, Jon Krosnick compared the results of a telephone probability sample to that of seven convenience samples conducted via the Internet. Where 54% of respondents said that they had seen a movie recently in the probability sample, the convenience samples varied widely, with answers ranging from 65% to 93%. Weighting the results of the convenience samples didn’t bring the answers into line with the probability sample.
The natural tendency is to extrapolate from convenience samples. The tendency when using convenience samples is to treat the results as representative, even though they are not. Many people do not understand the theoretical underpinnings of probability sampling and treat any survey results as accurate representations of the target audience. While mainstream media outlets often will not publicize the results of surveys that used convenience samples, small media organizations often will, without describing the methodology as a convenience sample.
The results of convenience samples are hard to replicate. If you analyze the results of a convenience survey by list source, you will often find dramatic differences in the answers from the different lists, often in ways that confound easy explanation.
Getting representative results – results that can extrapolated back to the target population – is not always a research objective. Surveys fielded to convenience samples have many of the advantages of surveys in general, which is why the sampling technique is so widespread.

driver100

abacomike said:

driver100 said:

I wrote to my sales guy to see what was happening.....we fly back on Sunday April 2nd so I really want my car ready on Monday April 3rd.

This was part of his reply,

I have good news, your E400 has left Halifax and is on a priority private truck to Ontario. It will arrive in Concord and then it will be sent to the dealership.

We are expecting it here in about 2 weeks. Once it arrives I will let you know and we can arrange a pick up date.

A little different treatment than what GG is getting. I have been treated in the classiest and most respectful manner possible. I know that could change, but for now, they certainly earn the benefit of the doubt. GGs experience is like dealing with the mob.

Good news driver.  My suggestion is that you go over that new E400 with a fine tooth comb for nicks, scratches, dings, etc.  Also that you drive the car for 20-30 minutes before signing off on it to make sure it is performing to your satisfaction. 

Thanks for the suggestion. I will certainly keep it in mind, especially since it has been sitting in the elements (and I mean snow, rain and ice) for a few months. Then there is the special private truck that is picking it up.....anytime you try to do something out of the ordinary it just adds to more that can go wrong!

driver100

We were out having dinner tonight and a couple in an older model Ford Escape come roaring in at high speed and park in the handicapped parking. He does have a handicap sign in his front window. The couple jump out of their car and walk into the restaurant about as normal as can be. He is probably on workmans compensation from an accident that happened 6 months ago!

imidazol97

One of my favorite stories is the lady with a Buick parked in handicap space at Wal-Mart. Hopped out easily and nearly team into the store wearing tall heels made of wood, glaring at me because I was watching her. I was tempted to call the police to see if they verify people getting into cars that aren't the ones to whom the handicapped card was issued.

Years back one regular officer was told by a lady she was there with her grandmother to whom the tag was issued. He waited for her to leave without the grandmother. He finally moved out to the street because she waited him out, she thought. He stopped her as she finally left the parking lot,
 and she was outraged he had outsmarted her. Ti cket.

Edit:  I believe she was cuffed and taken to jail because she argued and threw a regular tantrum that the
office was being "unfair" to her. It made the papers.

abacomike

Speaking of handicap plates and placards, it seems that they are much too easy to get.  Down here, when I go to Publix or Walmart, it never fails that I see drivers getting out of their cars and walking briskly into the store.

The local police frequent these areas and give out tickets left and right.  They sit in their patrol cars waiting for people to return to their cars parked in handicap spaces.  They then get out of their patrol cars and request the permits from the drivers.  Many do not have the permits in their names and are immediately ticketed.  The fines are $250 - an expensive parking space, to be sure.

imidazol97

We have a patrol car for parking enforcement. I don't know how aggressive they are. I believe it's manned by junior officers during the day only, and mostly is used for ticketing when there's no handicap card visible or when you park the wrong place or wrong way on a street.

fintail

Nice to see the cops doing something useful like that.

Driver: also have the MB dealer give the E400 a good detail, if it has been sitting outside. They owe that much to you, anyway.

Maybe I should get some shots of MB hinges on my cars. I am sure the fintail hinges are surplus bomb/torpedo door hinges from a U-boat or Ju290 (as the sheet metal is surplus Panzer steel)

ab348

I will never park in a handicap spot even though most of them are always empty around here. What gets me though are the "mommy" spots, which I usually see occupied by middle-aged women in pickup trucks with no kids of any sort around.

At least now I will let myself park in the "Seniors" spots that are in a few lots here, though they are almost always filled.

andres3

jmonroe said:

stickguy said:

jmonroe said:

andres3 said:

graphicguy said:

As an aside, the BBB told me that Cadillac will have an attorney at the arbitration hearing. I told them it would take me a bit to find one locally. Their response was telling....

"It's a very informal process, you tell what you've experienced".

Me: "and, GM's attorney represents their side. Why do they need an attorney if it's informal?"

BBB: "To represent GM".

ME: "so, they view me as their legal adversary. I better hire my own attorney."

BBB: "again, this is very informal. If you do hire an attorney, you have to let us know who it is."

ME: "will do....as long as you tell me who the attorney is representing GM."

BBB: "they usually don't tell us that."

ME: "OK, then you don't need to know my attorney, either"

The way I view this, they want their attorney there, but discouraging my use of one. They want the deck stacked in their favor.

So much for impartiality.

Your case is so clear-cut I'm not sure OJ's dream team of lawyers could defeat you.

Wanna bet. They have been through so many cases like this or very similar to it, they know exactly what to do. For them it is a game they know they can win and do win.

I'm not saying this case can't be won in @graphicguy's favor but it will cost a LOT. They want to see how far you want to go. This could go on so long that some of us won't be here when it ends.

I hope I'm wrong and will be happy to say I was but I'm not going to put any of my money on @graphicguy getting a favorable outcome if this drags on. His best hope is a rather quick negotiation settlement from both of the players

jmonroe

JM, I'm the opposite in that I think the longer this goes on, the more likely GG prevails. Best as I can tell, GM knows they are in the wrong, and frankly (by the law) have no case. But their business model for this is to treat it as a war of attrition. And the BBB/Arbitration is complicit in that goal (just making the customer give up and go away). However, once you show that you have the proof, and know that you have a case, and are not going away, they will cave and put a deal on the table. Next step is going to be a lemon law lawyer filing papers, and they know if it ever got to a trial they are losing.

so they might force him to show up at the hearing, with all his proof, and once he does and proves to be in for the long haul, an offer should be on the table shortly.

why the hell they didn't just look at the big picture going into month 3, especially since they know they got skeletons in the closet here, and just make an offer to make the car and GG go away, is beyond me.

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.

The point I was trying to make is they will drag it out and make @graphicguy spend more for a lawyer than he plans to spend.

Only the lawyers win when that happens. GM has them on call but the defendant has to go get one and hope he is good. Rest assured the guys GM have are good and they have been down this road before. On top of that you have to deal with the nitwit folks at the BBB.

jmonroe

I'm not so sure GM's lawyers are all that good. The company did go bankrupt after all, less than 10 years ago. They probably did have good lawyers representing them with the appointed Auto Czar and the Government while in bankruptcy though.

suydam

imidazol97 said:

@suydam
Convenience sampling:

A quick google search found many responses. This one seemed thorough so I'm posting from within its thorough discussion.
http://blog.verint.com/customer-engagement/convenience-samples-pros-and-cons

"The disadvantages:
Convenience samples do not produce representative results. If you need to extrapolate to the target population, convenience samples aren’t going to get you there.
For example, there was the 2008 AOL poll with 272,939 votes in which 61% of respondents voted for John McCain for U.S. President and 39% for Obama. Much larger convenience samples are not more accurate than small probability samples.
At the 2009 CASRO Data Collection Conference, Jon Krosnick compared the results of a telephone probability sample to that of seven convenience samples conducted via the Internet. Where 54% of respondents said that they had seen a movie recently in the probability sample, the convenience samples varied widely, with answers ranging from 65% to 93%. Weighting the results of the convenience samples didn’t bring the answers into line with the probability sample.
The natural tendency is to extrapolate from convenience samples. The tendency when using convenience samples is to treat the results as representative, even though they are not. Many people do not understand the theoretical underpinnings of probability sampling and treat any survey results as accurate representations of the target audience. While mainstream media outlets often will not publicize the results of surveys that used convenience samples, small media organizations often will, without describing the methodology as a convenience sample.
The results of convenience samples are hard to replicate. If you analyze the results of a convenience survey by list source, you will often find dramatic differences in the answers from the different lists, often in ways that confound easy explanation.
Getting representative results – results that can extrapolated back to the target population – is not always a research objective. Surveys fielded to convenience samples have many of the advantages of surveys in general, which is why the sampling technique is so widespread.

I had never heard that term. I don't think that is what CR does. They mail very detailed questionnaires to their entire readership -- probability sampling. And it's ongoing over many years. Here's a link to an explanation of their methods and data:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2011/10/consumer-reports-car-reliability-faq/index.htm

stickguy

One thing I can guarantee is that I will never get a ticket for parking in a handicap spot. Not just because I have morals, but because I am famous for parking in the far end of the parking lot. And will circle around looking for the perfect spot (close is not a consideration, protection from car doors and shopping carts is).

jmonroe

tjc78 said:

Door hinges.... really guys?

Anyway,
@graphicguy
I think I'd get a lawyer too, you just never know what spin they will try to put on this.   Your conversation with the BBB really is priceless.  

Re: leather 
I really like Lexol, that is my go to.  I have the Zymol as well and find they are pretty equal.  Lexol is a little cheaper.  

I've used Lexol on my leather seats for years.

I knew it was a good product because back in the early 60's I bought a new baseball glove when I played softball when I was in the Navy. When I bought the glove I was going to buy the old Neatsfoot Oil to break it in and the guy at the sporting goods shop showed me the Lexol and said, "this is far better than Neatsfoot Oil" and he was right. I had never heard of it until he showed it to me. I think it was relatively new back then. I haven't stopped using it on baseball gloves since I first tried it and I have used it on all the cars I've had with leather seats. I've also used it on leather jackets and winter leather gloves.

Lexol is good stuff.

jmonroe

driver100

When a small low sports car parks in a handicap spot I always like to watch who gets in or out. It is usually a person who looks and can walk very well.

Ab, I haven't heard of senior parking spots. Do they ask for ID at random? You would think they would have them in Florida, but, then about 75% of the spots would be designated for seniors. Many stores designate about 20% of parking spaces to golf carts.

Fintail, I am sure the E400 will be cleaned and detailed to perfection. There is a special huge bright glass enclosed room where you pick up your new car. Don't forget, my dealer will give you a car wash any day or time when they are open, and if they do any work on the car and have the time they will do the inside as well - no charge.

suydam

As long as they have a handicap sticker they're good. Many handicaps aren't obvious. No sticker, shame on that driver.

driver100

Stick, I found trying to park far away from all the other cars just increases my chances of a problem. I am better off trying to find a spot that is at the end of an aisle or near a patch of grass, so my odds of getting hit are 50% on only one side. But, if I try too hard it invites trouble! :@

driver100

suydam said:

As long as they have a handicap sticker they're good. Many handicaps aren't obvious. No sticker, shame on that driver.

Not necessarily. These days they copy them, they use someone elses, and doctors give them out pretty freely.

stickguy

use the little islands. they are your friend. Especially on the evil sloped parking lots. Park next to one, on the downhill side. At least that is some protection!

imidazol97

A poster is requesting help identifying a car involved in theft from vehicles.from some good night videos of the theft. I tried capturing and cleaning up the pictures to help bring out the shapes on the car and posted those. Take a look and see if you can ID the brand. The wheels may be a good ID tool but they don't pop in the captures but do show in the videos in spots.

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/44733/general/x/please-help-with-car-id#latest