Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

28firefighter

The direction this conversation turned is how I know I'm in Cars & Conversation and not CCBA.

fintail

Funny thing, in US market Es, the package that includes BU camera and a host of other features is on virtually 100% of cars. Every single car on any MB dealer lot will have it, without fail. You'd have to special order something to do without it, and I suspect a dealer would want a substantial deposit for such an order, as a car lacking that package would be glued to the lot. A "mandatory option" as I call it, or just a way for MB to work around their low-looking stated base prices. True base cars don't exist.

I recall a salesman telling me about a customer who special ordered a car without it, and when his wife found out, she could have strangled him. Not sure why someone would do it, money and sense diverge yet again.

driver100 said:

I do agree. When I bought the 2015 E I paid a few $1000 to get the package that gave you the camera.....a friend here had a 6 year old Elantra that had a backup camera.

I will say, that same guy bought a 2 door Cadillac CTA, not sure of the year. Looks pretty sharp, but he said he is disappointed with the BU cam in it......picture is not clear and there are no guidelines.

fintail

I'm enjoying it! Getting up at 8, staying up til I want, going to hockey practice later this morning, on other days can go to the gym before the real rush. I'm also doing a SQL course online just so I won't be bored or feel like I am completely wasting time. After too many years at a gongshow that I didn't realize was obscenely stressful, I still feel years younger.

I've put in for just a few things and actually had a phone interview last week, they won't be hiring until mid January (as they seem disorganized, not sure if that bodes well, but the position has potential). I'm not complaining. Maybe by February or so I'll every start getting worried or get some cabin fever.

tjc78 said:

Job update...

Still here getting paid to do basically nothing (among many others here). Waiting on paperwork for the WARN act and to be told if they are keeping me or putting me out to pasture.

Either way it looks like 60 more days of pay minimum before I would be without income. I think I'll know something this week. If they keep me I have over two weeks vacation time so I won't be here from about the 16th to the new year.

Working the network and applying for positions that make sense. I haven't done this for 19 years! Need to get the rust off.

driver100

28firefighter said:

The direction this conversation turned is how I know I'm in Cars & Conversation and not CCBA.

That is a funny comment. I was once told salesmen do anything to get you into the dealership, they know you will tell friends and neighbors you are going to be buying a new car.....then the salesmen gives you a low-ball offer but you buy because you have told everyone.
I didn't tell anyone....except you guys, and you are just virtual buddies anyway.

driver100

fintail said:

Funny thing, in US market Es, the package that includes BU camera and a host of other features is on virtually 100% of cars. Every single car on any MB dealer lot will have it, without fail.

driver100 said:

I do agree. When I bought the 2015 E I paid a few $1000 to get the package that gave you the camera.....a friend here had a 6 year old Elantra that had a backup camera.

I will say, that same guy bought a 2 door Cadillac CTA, not sure of the year. Looks pretty sharp, but he said he is disappointed with the BU cam in it......picture is not clear and there are no guidelines.

Now, they will, in fact it is the law, they have to have it. When I got the 2015 E it was an option in a package. MB probably thinks no one is going to buy a luxury car and not buy the optional GPS, BU cam, sensor option.
The automatic braking system was also a major $3000 option in a package....now it is also on a lot of regular cars. If MB can charge extra, they will......other car makers throw it in to increase sales.

driver100

fintail said:

I'm enjoying it! Getting up at 8, staying up til I want, going to hockey practice later this morning, on other days can go to the gym before the real rush. I'm also doing a SQL course online just so I won't be bored or feel like I am completely wasting time

tjc78 said:

Job update...

Still here getting paid to do basically nothing (among many others here). Waiting on paperwork for the WARN act and to be told if they are keeping me or putting me out to pasture.

Either way it looks like 60 more days of pay minimum before I would be without income. I think I'll know something this week. If they keep me I have over two weeks vacation time so I won't be here from about the 16th to the new year.

Working the network and applying for positions that make sense. I haven't done this for 19 years! Need to get the rust off.

Sounds like you are getting ready for retirement. That is what it is like, do what you want when you want to do it, no reporting to anyone.

PF_Flyer

Went to see Ford v Ferrari yesterday. Came out with the wife giving me a list of people that she thinks I need to tell that they HAVE to see it

We went with a couple of friends who enjoyed the heck out of it as well. And in an unusual endorsement, my buddy proclaims it a hit because, "there were no dead spots where you could go to the bathroom" LOL

driver100

my buddy proclaims it a hit because, "there were no dead spots where you could go to the bathroom" LOL

Pretty remarkable since the running time is 2 1/2 hours.....plus pre-movie commercials.

qbrozen

driver100 said:

That is a funny comment. I was once told salesmen do anything to get you into the dealership, they know you will tell friends and neighbors you are going to be buying a new car.....then the salesmen gives you a low-ball offer but you buy because you have told everyone.
I didn't tell anyone....except you guys, and you are just virtual buddies anyway.

Also the reasoning for the puppy dog close. It is already in your driveway, so how can you possibly live with the humiliation of coming back home with your old car? It is absurd, but I certainly don't doubt it works on some people.

I, for one, hide the fact that I've gotten a different car because I don't want to hear the comments or suffer through the eye rolling. LOL. Obviously, everyone inevitably notices and asks "when did you change cars AGAIN?" To which I usually reply something like "oh, that old thing?" haha.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

I, for one, hide the fact that I've gotten a different car because I don't want to hear the comments or suffer through the eye rolling. LOL. Obviously, everyone inevitably notices and asks "when did you change cars AGAIN?" To which I usually reply something like "oh, that old thing?" haha.

This resonates a little too well. My neighbors have a pool going on me now...

dino001

driver100 said:

dino001 said:

I think there is not reason to treat a lowball as an "insult". It's probably not very productive to use emotional expressions, like "they better get their act together or else". After all, it's not Mr. Edmunds who cuts the check, it's the dealership, so if they determine that they like their car to collect dust for a bit longer and you like driving your current car a little longer then agreeing to the price you like (by that I mean cash plus barter), it's OK. Going after them emotionally might work, or may do the exact opposite, it depends a bit on the personalities.

Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything, there is no law saying dealers have to take our cars at prices we like (Mr. Edmunds, Ms. Kelley) and there is no law saying we have to buy what they sell. At the end it will be about who wants it more - you, them , or perhaps neither.

Respectfully disagree. If I drive for an hour and a quarter in heavy traffic, and give them 3 or 4 hours of my time, I don't want to be given a lowball offer. They can do it once, to test the waters, but after that I walk.
We were ready to buy trade a 2008 BMW 335 for a 2013 BMW 335 they gave me a story about how my car was worth $2000 less than the KBB value, because they had plenty in stock. I told them that didn't sound reasonable....so we tested an A4, liked it better, saved $11000. When we got home we got a message he could do better.
No, my time is too valuable....I am pretty sure my offer would be realistic but a bit of a stretch. There would be $14000 difference under ideal conditions for them, I would ask them to add $1000 to the value of my car, and shave $1000 off the price of the new one. Not as much money as they would like, but a win/win.

Like the guy said when we bought the Audi, we are dealing with knowledgeable business people....I'm not going to fool around.

I can also flip your stance exactly the other way - you came in, you spend 3 hours with a salesaman making all the "right" noises, then you came to expect some ungodly amount for your car thinking it was made of gold. You're insulting them (you're really are not, but they could act just the same) and you wasted perfectly good three hours of salesperson's time making them think you were serious ... Who is Mr. Edmunds to decide how much is the car worth for the dealer? So, Sir, you better get your act together or else we throw you out.... :laughing:

All kind of business doesn't get done all the time due to price disagreements. Companies enter long negotiations and walk off with nothing after months. American Express let Costco end its 10-year credit card agreement without renewal, because Costco was "asking too much" and "economics didn't work". Citi jumped on that and gave the farm up to get in. And I know, I have the card - the only cards with better benefits are those you pay hundreds of dollars per year.

Lowball offers are done all the time. You don't like it, you walk, but it's not an "insult", it's just not meeting of the minds about the deal. You have to prepare yourself for that, but I don't think you really need 3 or 4 hours to get to that point and getting upset and insulted will most likely hurt you. You do what our old friend "Bobst", stand up and walk to your car after they make that offer, or in his case, he'd make an offer and walk when not accepted. He'd walk even for 10 cent discrepancy on the contract after the agreement was made (a bit extreme, if you ask me, but that's the way he did things). He was never emotional about it. He just treated it as another data point for his next encounter. I don't know if I can be that cool, but I like it.

jmonroe1

driver100 said:

fintail said:

I'm enjoying it! Getting up at 8, staying up til I want, going to hockey practice later this morning, on other days can go to the gym before the real rush. I'm also doing a SQL course online just so I won't be bored or feel like I am completely wasting time

tjc78 said:

Job update...

Still here getting paid to do basically nothing (among many others here). Waiting on paperwork for the WARN act and to be told if they are keeping me or putting me out to pasture.

Either way it looks like 60 more days of pay minimum before I would be without income. I think I'll know something this week. If they keep me I have over two weeks vacation time so I won't be here from about the 16th to the new year.

Working the network and applying for positions that make sense. I haven't done this for 19 years! Need to get the rust off.

Sounds like you are getting ready for retirement. That is what it is like, do what you want when you want to do it, no reporting to anyone.

Yep, when I finally retired after a long career with a company and then doing consulting work with them for more years than I thought I would, people had to say something so they asked what I did all day long after working so long and I said, "I do what I want to do, when I want to do it and I only do that when I feel like it". That usually stopped any further questions.

jmonroe

snakeweasel

driver100 said:

28firefighter said:

The direction this conversation turned is how I know I'm in Cars & Conversation and not CCBA.

That is a funny comment. I was once told salesmen do anything to get you into the dealership, they know you will tell friends and neighbors you are going to be buying a new car.....then the salesmen gives you a low-ball offer but you buy because you have told everyone.
I didn't tell anyone....except you guys, and you are just virtual buddies anyway.

Plus we would understand you walking away from a bad deal.

Sandman6472

Like buying a vehicle the last week of December actually or anytime in December. Most folks are busy buying smaller holiday gifts, very few are looking to buy a new or used vehicle. SO might be a good time to swoop in and pick up something because you are gonna buy it! Just a matter of time now as inside your head, it's a done deal! Getting the wife on board is all you needed to hear actually. A game all us married guys play actually, doesn't matter which country you live in. Once the wife gives in, it's a green light already as again, they do it because they know it's just easier on everybody.
The game is over. You made the touchdown!

driver100

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

dino001 said:

I think there is not reason to treat a lowball as an "insult". It's probably not very productive to use emotional expressions, like "they better get their act together or else". After all, it's not Mr. Edmunds who cuts the check, it's the dealership, so if they determine that they like their car to collect dust for a bit longer and you like driving your current car a little longer then agreeing to the price you like (by that I mean cash plus barter), it's OK. Going after them emotionally might work, or may do the exact opposite, it depends a bit on the personalities.

Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything, there is no law saying dealers have to take our cars at prices we like (Mr. Edmunds, Ms. Kelley) and there is no law saying we have to buy what they sell. At the end it will be about who wants it more - you, them , or perhaps neither.

Respectfully disagree. If I drive for an hour and a quarter in heavy traffic, and give them 3 or 4 hours of my time, I don't want to be given a lowball offer. They can do it once, to test the waters, but after that I walk.
We were ready to buy trade a 2008 BMW 335 for a 2013 BMW 335 they gave me a story about how my car was worth $2000 less than the KBB value, because they had plenty in stock. I told them that didn't sound reasonable....so we tested an A4, liked it better, saved $11000. When we got home we got a message he could do better.
No, my time is too valuable....I am pretty sure my offer would be realistic but a bit of a stretch. There would be $14000 difference under ideal conditions for them, I would ask them to add $1000 to the value of my car, and shave $1000 off the price of the new one. Not as much money as they would like, but a win/win.

Like the guy said when we bought the Audi, we are dealing with knowledgeable business people....I'm not going to fool around.

I can also flip your stance exactly the other way - you came in, you spend 3 hours with a salesaman making all the "right" noises, then you came to expect some ungodly amount for your car thinking it was made of gold. You're insulting them (you're really are not, but they could act just the same) and you wasted perfectly good three hours of salesperson's time making them think you were serious ... Who is Mr. Edmunds to decide how much is the car worth for the dealer? So, Sir, you better get your act together or else we throw you out.... :laughing:

Uh uh. I am still the customer and I won't buy from a place that insults me. Every rule has games, Edmunds, KBB, Carvana, all make rules to live by. I know the range of price my car is worth.....you have some credibility if you are within range. If you insult me, I probably won't be back. It is your right to give me any price you want, but I will have the last word as to whether I like your offer or if I will walk.....and probably never come back.

I think your premise is wrong. The dealer wants to sell a car, I want to buy the car, we have to work together to come up with a price the dealer can live with and that I find fair.....and in my case I will be fair, the dealer is entitled to make a fair profit.

When we bought the Passat the saleslady told me it would be $28500 and there was no discounting.....they were selling so fast. I told her Edmunds AVERAGE price...not low side price, was $25000 and if she couldn't do that there were other dealers I would try. Guess what, she took it. I don't blame her for trying, I could have been an easy mark......but, no, I don't have to be insulted by a car salesman.

I don't walk out angry, and I don't walk out telling them they insulted me. I tell them it doesn't work for me, which is fair enough.

As far as salesmen wasting time....that is the nature of the game. I am not wasting their time, they probably only sell to one in 10 prospects. It is the nature of sales. Think what a real estate person goes through and doesn't get a sale....be on call 24 hours, pick people up, arrange a showing etc etc. There is no obligation to buy. Salesman gives it his best shot....buyer makes his decision. I won't waste a salesman's time....I will work with them to try and make a sale that we both can live with. I don't have to beat the other guy up to be satisfied, I want the fairest deal possible for me. I bet anyone I have bought a car off of would love to sell me another car...I am a salesman's dream customer....just be fair, and respectful of my time and money.

Sandman6472

Best to keep emotions out of the process really. It's really a lot of wasted energy. You make an offer, they think about it and if accepted, it was the right one. If not, might have to add some extra $ to get 'er done. Leave your emotions at home as you said yourself, I've already got one I like, I don't need to do this. But honestly, you've already become emotionally involved with it already. Deny all you want, but I've seen a lot of us do this over the years in here. Most of us get emotionally involved and see it in our garages before we even write the check. From your posts in here these past few days, you're already involved!
Again, deny all you want but, history "always" repeats itself!

Sandman6472

Jmonroe1, I like your quick answer about your retirement. Makes more sense to keep things short and sweet actually. I've read a lot of your posts over the years and I always laugh a bit because you are a very funny guy though that might not be your intent. I just know you keep me quite amused!

driver100

When I say I am insulted I am not angry or upset....I don't take his insult personally. If he comes to me with an offer that isn't reasonable I have learned a valuable lesson....I learned something and I will leave....I'll be polite and say something about I will think about it or I'll check other dealers etc. I don't get angry - he is the one who lost a prospect.
Then there was the BMW manager who barged in when the salesman couldn't close. Told me I couldn't get a new car for the price I wanted to pay and told me he would sell me a crappy looking demo for the price I wanted to pay.
I went to another dealer and got the car for $5000 less.
The manager guy said the new 2012s were going to go up 4% in price, and they don't discount new models.
The second place, the salesman took 4% off the final price of the new car, whatever the price would be. There was no price increase.
The first guy insulted my intelligence, the second guy worked a lot smarter.
I don't get angry, I learn from their stupidity. Some sales people realize some people know the ropes, and they don't play games........everyone feels better and I tend to trust those guys. Our current MB salesman (back home) seems to be fair, they make a reasonable profit and I have no reason to go elsewhere -bought 3 cars there in 4 years.

Sandman6472

No word on my kids 2008 Accent but she's feeling a bit better and her knee is doing o k. She took off Friday but understandable since she gets off her shift at 11:30 at night. She only lives about 10 minutes from work so this happened close to midnight. Unfortunately, we're a good hour up the road in Broward County. The car's at the Metlife preferred body shop and the wife just walked in but no word yet. Figure by Wednesday or so, they'll have made their decision about fixing it or cutting her a check. I'm letting the girls handle it until they ask me for any help. Sometimes, too many cooks in the kitchen do not improve the flavor of the dish!
Personally, let them total it and cut her a check so she can move on. Her Accent is so old that it doesn't even have a back-up camera, something everyone should have by now. If she does have to buy another, betting on her getting another Hyundai Accent and the new 2020 model is nothing like her 2008 one. They've improved it so much that I wouldn't be insulted one bit if that was my daily driver. Hyundai/Kia have come a long way since those awful early years and can now give most car companies a run for the money. They're no longer the penalty box vehicles they once were with that awful Excel model. For being their base model, the new Accent is extremely well made! Again, I'd have no issue driving one on a daily basis, one bit!

imidazol97

Not to change the subject, but...

@driver100 YOu mentioned the new refrigerator has 37 deg F as the preferred temp for the refrigerator part.

I checked ours and I've had it at 39 to 40 deg. F. I checked running the temperature down in setting, and when I got to 37 it said it was preferred. I recall everything seemed too cold at that temp, so I had verified the temp with thermometers and raised mine a deg every few days.

stickguy

Sandy, you just had to mention the BU camera again didn’t you!

jmonroe1

Sandman6472 said:

Jmonroe1, I like your quick answer about your retirement. Makes more sense to keep things short and sweet actually. I've read a lot of your posts over the years and I always laugh a bit because you are a very funny guy though that might not be your intent. I just know you keep me quite amused!

Thanks Sandy. I'll say just about anything to get a dues reduction. But I have to admit I am upset with Edmunds because it AIN'T WORKING. :@

jmonroe

dino001

driver100 said:

When I say I am insulted I am not angry or upset....I don't take his insult personally. If he comes to me with an offer that isn't reasonable I have learned a valuable lesson....I learned something and I will leave....I'll be polite and say something about I will think about it or I'll check other dealers etc. I don't get angry - he is the one who lost a prospect.
Then there was the BMW manager who barged in when the salesman couldn't close. Told me I couldn't get a new car for the price I wanted to pay and told me he would sell me a crappy looking demo for the price I wanted to pay.
I went to another dealer and got the car for $5000 less.
The manager guy said the new 2012s were going to go up 4% in price, and they don't discount new models.
The second place, the salesman took 4% off the final price of the new car, whatever the price would be. There was no price increase.
The first guy insulted my intelligence, the second guy worked a lot smarter.
I don't get angry, I learn from their stupidity. Some sales people realize some people know the ropes, and they don't play games........everyone feels better and I tend to trust those guys. Our current MB salesman (back home) seems to be fair, they make a reasonable profit and I have no reason to go elsewhere -bought 3 cars there in 4 years.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I see insults all over the place, but they usually are not about unreasonable price offers (people can want whatever they want, may even get it, just not necessarily from me), but about assumption I can't count, or don't understand what trading in a vehicle means. Ads like "YOU PAY $15,999 with small print saying that $3000 cash or trade not included, which means those three grand would be just paid by the Santa Claus, I suppose. Or manufacturers' commercials with "starting at", where the value doesn't include so-called delivery fee (not to be confused with "dealer-whatever fee", charged on top, which is entirely different subject), when there is no scheme under which this it can be not paid (the only difference is good folks in Hawaii or Alaska would need to pay more than us). What I do in reaction, I avoid those places, or simply tune out these commercials if for whatever reason I still have to go there.

BTW, I noticed that faked anger sometimes works. Usually involves a team of two people, say husband and wife. One gets angry, the other calms the situation down. Kind of good cop bad cop game. Needs good actors, though.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

Sandy, you just had to mention the BU camera again didn’t you!

Yeah, he just HAD to say that. His poster buddy will go off the deep end when he hears about his daughter getting a run-of-the-mill grocery getter that has one. I wonder how long we're going to hear about that.

jmonroe

stickguy

my wife won't do good cop/bad cop. But I have perfected the passive-aggressive waffling to get the dealer to negotiate against himself!

stickguy

TLX got it's first oil change today. 2 weeks short of it's first birthday with me. Minder was at 20% (it starts popping up the "it's time" message at 15%) so it was close enough to time. Was planning to go in Friday (I got frisky and took a day off). But, the car decided to act up yesterday (quite annoying too). went shopping late morning, no issues. Parked about 1-1.5 hours. came back out, started it up, and multiple error messages and icons.

got an "emissions system problem" (that is pretty nebulous, and included the CEL symbol). But also a "electronic parking brake problem" message and icon (and the red "park" word flashed). That I was not expecting. At least it seemed to turn off (release) since I did have it set on. drove home with one stop, seemed to drive normally.

so called dealer this morning and they said I could bring it in right away, and had a loaner available. So decided to run it up today instead of waiting, just in case. In and out quick dropping it off (got a 2020 TLX V6 base as a loaner). I would have waited for just an oil change, but not for a diagnostic. Took about 2.75 hours until they called that it was done. So overall, impressive turn around (5 hours from calling for appointment to having it done).

turns out they pulled the codes, and it flagged an issue with the fuel filler neck (I did not check for a loose gas cap, since I don't actually have a gas cap). So they replaced that and said all was good. I asked about the brake issue, and he said that was actually caused by the same fault and went away when they did the repair. seemed odd to me, but I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

oil change with coupon (oil and filter, MPI, all fluids topped and tire rotation) for $49.99, free loaner car. Not complaining about that 1x a year! Hopefully it was a fluke and no more issues, because I was not pleased with this episode, though in the long run, timing was fine. did not inconvenience me a bit since I was going in anyway. if it happened next week, that would have been annoying!

jmonroe1

Took the Genny in for it's yearly oil change last week. Wasn't even close to the recommended 7,500 miles. Cost just under 75 bucks for synthetic with the dealer coupon. That sucker takes 8.5 quarts. Nothing wannabe be about that V8 engine.

jmonroe

stickguy

I was surprised to get that close to the wrench (indicator on an Acura) coming on. usually I get to the 1 year first, and the car does not flag that so don't get the codes popping up as to what it needs.

coincidentally, the RDX is also at 20%. Might do that Friday instead on my day off if the weather cooperates. We are taking that travelling over xmas break, so good to get it done first. Just want the light to come on, but I can wait a week if need be.

here is a pretty car for JMonroe (I love the color combo) though "only" has the V6 (which would be plenty for me). And 5 oil changes in barely 3 years and 21K miles!

https://www.keenanhonda.com/inventory/used-2017-genesis-g80-3-8-awd-4d-sedan-kmhgn4je5hu172719

driver100

imidazol97 said:

Not to change the subject, but...

@driver100 YOu mentioned the new refrigerator has 37 deg F as the preferred temp for the refrigerator part.

I checked ours and I've had it at 39 to 40 deg. F. I checked running the temperature down in setting, and when I got to 37 it said it was preferred. I recall everything seemed too cold at that temp, so I had verified the temp with thermometers and raised mine a deg every few days.

Yes imid, the factory setting is for 37, and I am going to raise it once I get the manual out...I think you have to press 2 buttons at the same time but you need to follow the instructions to know which too. Orange juice is freezing cold in the morning....gives brain freeze at 37. The freezer needs to be raised as well....factory sets it at 0F, you need a pick ax to get ice cream out of the container....will try about 5.

driver100

stickguy said:

Sandy, you just had to mention the BU camera again didn’t you!

Not only that but he actually said, " Her Accent is so old that it doesn't even have a back-up camera, something everyone should have by now". Now I don't know whether I should go up and see that 2016.

When I saw the 1999 Mercedes in the parking lot I thought, that car is 20 years old and it made it this far.....without a backup camera.

driver100

jmonroe1 said:

Sandman6472 said:

Jmonroe1, I like your quick answer about your retirement. Makes more sense to keep things short and sweet actually. I've read a lot of your posts over the years and I always laugh a bit because you are a very funny guy though that might not be your intent. I just know you keep me quite amused!

Thanks Sandy. I'll say just about anything to get a dues reduction. But I have to admit I am upset with Edmunds because it AIN'T WORKING. :@

jmonroe

That is the new JMonroe1 cousin to the original....this one is briefer and funnier, even though he only has 1294 posts.

stickguy

BU camera is required by law now. I forget which year it had to be included (some sort of phase in I think for when cars were redesigned). I would be surprised if you could buy any 2020 without one.

driver100

dino001 said:

driver100 said:

When I say I am insulted I am not angry or upset....I don't take his insult personally. If he comes to me with an offer that isn't reasonable I have learned a valuable lesson....I learned something and I will leave....I'll be polite and say something about I will think about it or I'll check other dealers etc. I don't get angry - he is the one who lost a prospect.
Then there was the BMW manager who barged in when the salesman couldn't close. Told me I couldn't get a new car for the price I wanted to pay and told me he would sell me a crappy looking demo for the price I wanted to pay.
I went to another dealer and got the car for $5000 less.
The manager guy said the new 2012s were going to go up 4% in price, and they don't discount new models.
The second place, the salesman took 4% off the final price of the new car, whatever the price would be. There was no price increase.
The first guy insulted my intelligence, the second guy worked a lot smarter.
I don't get angry, I learn from their stupidity. Some sales people realize some people know the ropes, and they don't play games........everyone feels better and I tend to trust those guys. Our current MB salesman (back home) seems to be fair, they make a reasonable profit and I have no reason to go elsewhere -bought 3 cars there in 4 years.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I see insults all over the place, but they usually are not about unreasonable price offers (people can want whatever they want, may even get it, just not necessarily from me), but about assumption I can't count, or don't understand what trading in a vehicle means. Ads like "YOU PAY $15,999 with small print saying that $3000 cash or trade not included, which means those three grand would be just paid by the Santa Claus, I suppose. Or manufacturers' commercials with "starting at", where the value doesn't include so-called delivery fee (not to be confused with "dealer-whatever fee", charged on top, which is entirely different subject), when there is no scheme under which this it can be not paid (the only difference is good folks in Hawaii or Alaska would need to pay more than us). What I do in reaction, I avoid those places, or simply tune out these commercials if for whatever reason I still have to go there.

BTW, I noticed that faked anger sometimes works. Usually involves a team of two people, say husband and wife. One gets angry, the other calms the situation down. Kind of good cop bad cop game. Needs good actors, though.

Fake ads turn me off. I would rather deal with open and transparent any day. Tell me you can't do the deal I want or you will lose money. Tell me the profit is so little it isn't worth it to you. Something reasonable - usually if it is true and you present it logically I will probably believe you, or ask you to show me some proof.

I also am not going to use fake anger or fake anything. I will always tell it the way it is. I do go in armed with some actual numbers as proof.....wild statements or believing my car is one everyone in the world wants means nothing. Hard to argue with facts if they are real. I don't have the time or patience for playing around....give me the facts, be honest, and we can probably come to an agreement.
I have been in sales for most of my working life, and I had to sell to get my business going.........not being truthful and honest is going to backfire very quickly - once you get caught you are dead. Be truthful and fair, and people will trust you and want to buy from you.

oldfarmer50

“Mrs D and I DISCUSSED the new car when we took Trixie for her walk. WE decided a one hour trip into the busiest area in Tampa, dealing with an aggressive sales guy would be too draining, PLUS, we really love our car.”

So she told you NO, right?

explorerx4

Someone is reminding me of that 'Iluv' poster to was going to do a lot of things, but never did anything.
The reason is pretty obvious.

driver100

stickguy said:

I was surprised to get that close to the wrench (indicator on an Acura) coming on. usually I get to the 1 year first, and the car does not flag that so don't get the codes popping up as to what it needs.

coincidentally, the RDX is also at 20%. Might do that Friday instead on my day off if the weather cooperates. We are taking that travelling over xmas break, so good to get it done first. Just want the light to come on, but I can wait a week if need be.

here is a pretty car for JMonroe (I love the color combo) though "only" has the V6 (which would be plenty for me). And 5 oil changes in barely 3 years and 21K miles!

https://www.keenanhonda.com/inventory/used-2017-genesis-g80-3-8-awd-4d-sedan-kmhgn4je5hu172719

Looks nice but I think JMonroe should get one of these:

That one could make me a believer!

driver100

oldfarmer50 said:

“Mrs D and I DISCUSSED the new car when we took Trixie for her walk. WE decided a one hour trip into the busiest area in Tampa, dealing with an aggressive sales guy would be too draining, PLUS, we really love our car.”

So she told you NO, right?

Honestly, if I really wanted it Mrs D would have let me get it. Since I don't spend money on wine women and song or have any other bad habits she is OK letting me blow a bit of money on a car.

driver100

explorerx4 said:

Someone is reminding me of that 'Iluv' poster to was going to do a lot of things, but never did anything.
The reason is pretty obvious.

It's a little different....I made an astute judgement call after weighing all the facts and the dream was over in less than 48 hours.....I won't be going on for months deciding whether to buy it or not.

oldfarmer50

“I didn't tell anyone....except you guys, and you are just virtual buddies anyway.”

Sob...you make us feel so...cheap!

imidazol97

driver100 said:

imidazol97 said:

Not to change the subject, but...

@driver100 YOu mentioned the new refrigerator has 37 deg F as the preferred temp for the refrigerator part.

I checked ours and I've had it at 39 to 40 deg. F. I checked running the temperature down in setting, and when I got to 37 it said it was preferred. I recall everything seemed too cold at that temp, so I had verified the temp with thermometers and raised mine a deg every few days.

Yes imid, the factory setting is for 37, and I am going to raise it once I get the manual out...I think you have to press 2 buttons at the same time but you need to follow the instructions to know which too. Orange juice is freezing cold in the morning....gives brain freeze at 37. The freezer needs to be raised as well....factory sets it at 0F, you need a pick ax to get ice cream out of the container....will try about 5.

I think yours is like ours. There's a temp button. Hold it for 3 seconds to activate. Fridge temp shows first. Press again, freezer temp shows. Use blue up and down arrows that appear to the right to set temp higher or lower.

https://www.whirlpool.com/kitchen/refrigeration/refrigerators/side-by-side/p.36-inch-wide-counter-depth-side-by-side-refrigerator-21-cu.-ft.wrs571cihz.html

oldfarmer50

Sandman6472 said:

No word on my kids 2008 Accent but she's feeling a bit better and her knee is doing o k. She took off Friday but understandable since she gets off her shift at 11:30 at night. She only lives about 10 minutes from work so this happened close to midnight. Unfortunately, we're a good hour up the road in Broward County. The car's at the Metlife preferred body shop and the wife just walked in but no word yet. Figure by Wednesday or so, they'll have made their decision about fixing it or cutting her a check. I'm letting the girls handle it until they ask me for any help. Sometimes, too many cooks in the kitchen do not improve the flavor of the dish!
Personally, let them total it and cut her a check so she can move on. Her Accent is so old that it doesn't even have a back-up camera, something everyone should have by now. If she does have to buy another, betting on her getting another Hyundai Accent and the new 2020 model is nothing like her 2008 one. They've improved it so much that I wouldn't be insulted one bit if that was my daily driver. Hyundai/Kia have come a long way since those awful early years and can now give most car companies a run for the money. They're no longer the penalty box vehicles they once were with that awful Excel model. For being their base model, the new Accent is extremely well made! Again, I'd have no issue driving one on a daily basis, one bit!

Didn’t hear about this. I had to search a few other boards. Anyway, sorry this happened to her. I hope her injuries aren’t serious. My niece in Florida is still recovering from injuries resulting from being hit by a garbage truck a la driver100. Seems to be a Florida tradition.

If she insists on a sub compact replacement you might want to consider the Honda Fit. Probably some good deals on left over 2019s and the 2020 has a hybrid option.

Personally, I’d step up to an Elantra as it’s an overall better car than the Accent.

oldfarmer50

driver100 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

“Mrs D and I DISCUSSED the new car when we took Trixie for her walk. WE decided a one hour trip into the busiest area in Tampa, dealing with an aggressive sales guy would be too draining, PLUS, we really love our car.”

So she told you NO, right?

Honestly, if I really wanted it Mrs D would have let me get it. Since I don't spend money on wine women and song or have any other bad habits she is OK letting me blow a bit of money on a car.

LOL, yeah, keep telling yourself that. I never bought a car yet that my wife didn’t specifically give me permission, even begrudgingly.

fintail

Even before it was a law, it was in the "mandatory" package on the E (which included nav, heated seats, etc). On your 2015, it was in a package, but every car in stock would have had the package, and likely every car in national inventory. I think BU cam being bundled with nav and heated seats goes back to the 2010 model year. Parking sensors weren't standard on E until the current generation. Same for Keyless Go. For nav, you'll be hard pressed to find an E before 2004 or so without it - that mandatory option again. The C does it different, nav was always more premium for some reason. Increase those margins.

driver100 said:

Now, they will, in fact it is the law, they have to have it. When I got the 2015 E it was an option in a package. MB probably thinks no one is going to buy a luxury car and not buy the optional GPS, BU cam, sensor option.
The automatic braking system was also a major $3000 option in a package....now it is also on a lot of regular cars. If MB can charge extra, they will......other car makers throw it in to increase sales.

explorerx4

The BUC saga as been going on for more than 48 hours.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

I was surprised to get that close to the wrench (indicator on an Acura) coming on. usually I get to the 1 year first, and the car does not flag that so don't get the codes popping up as to what it needs.

coincidentally, the RDX is also at 20%. Might do that Friday instead on my day off if the weather cooperates. We are taking that travelling over xmas break, so good to get it done first. Just want the light to come on, but I can wait a week if need be.

here is a pretty car for JMonroe (I love the color combo) though "only" has the V6 (which would be plenty for me). And 5 oil changes in barely 3 years and 21K miles!

https://www.keenanhonda.com/inventory/used-2017-genesis-g80-3-8-awd-4d-sedan-kmhgn4je5hu172719

You are right about the color combo on that '17 Genny. That's almost a dead ringer for my '09 Genny. They called it Cabernet Red Pearl back then. I'm pretty sure our poster buddy @tjc78 had that color on his '09 too. The reddish color that was offered when I got my '15 Genny was downright awful. But I wouldn't have gotten a reddish color again since I didn't want the same color so I chose a charcoal grey and I still don't like it very much. But now that Mrs. j's newer Subie is a nice burgundy over beige there is once again a nice looking car in the garage.

I know I have moaned about the color of my '15 Genny before but I'm not going to give it to my neighbor who has said several times over the years, "anytime you don't want it, just put it in my driveway, I like that color". While I don't like the color all that much, I don't hate it that much either, so that ain't gonna happen.

jmonroe

suydam

I am a little surprised you didn’t at least give it a look-see. Then you’d have an informed decision that you preferred what you have. I did go drive a Nissan Leaf +, which I liked very much. But I couldn’t make the numbers work, so I feel pretty good about staying with the Volt.

tjc78

Yes I had the Cabernet on my 09 Genesis as well. Great color. I love a burgundy car!!

abacomike

driver100 said:

stickguy said:

I was surprised to get that close to the wrench (indicator on an Acura) coming on. usually I get to the 1 year first, and the car does not flag that so don't get the codes popping up as to what it needs.

coincidentally, the RDX is also at 20%. Might do that Friday instead on my day off if the weather cooperates. We are taking that travelling over xmas break, so good to get it done first. Just want the light to come on, but I can wait a week if need be.

here is a pretty car for JMonroe (I love the color combo) though "only" has the V6 (which would be plenty for me). And 5 oil changes in barely 3 years and 21K miles!

https://www.keenanhonda.com/inventory/used-2017-genesis-g80-3-8-awd-4d-sedan-kmhgn4je5hu172719

Looks nice but I think JMonroe should get one of these:

That one could make me a believer!

If I get a G80 next year, it will be that burnt orange color - almost red. They have one on display at the mall. I also think it will be the V8.

abacomike

Well, my surgery is scheduled for 9:00 AM tomorrow morning. I have to be there by 8:00 AM. It's being done at a surgical center in Boca Raton adjacent to FAU (Florida Atlantic University). I am quite nervous about this procedure - but it has to be done. Right eye tomorrow and left eye end of next month. 😕😕😕

suydam

If it’s laser, your “surgery” will consist of sitting in a chair, just one in an assembly line. You might see pretty colors too. I was cheered the first time in the waiting room when someone told me, “No one is ever anxious about the second eye.” Good luck!