Edmunds Members - Cars and Conversations

snakeweasel

graphicguy said:

Someone asked why I didn’t wait for the new TLX-S since I’ve been waiting for its release for quite some time.

Living in OH, and being in the embedded tech industry, I know some of the people who design, price and manufacture both Honda and Acura vehicles. They all stay pretty close to the vest regarding future products, but stitching together the many conversations I’ve had with them, I can guess at what’s coming....some obvious, some speculation.

The 2021 base TLX will get the 2.0 4 cyl turbo that comes in the Civic R (slightly detuned) and the Accord Sport. The S-Type isn’t as clear. RLX electric/combustion drivetrain is expensive to make, and would put the S-Type price the same as the RLX (which barely sells). More likely, S-Type will get a turbo V6. Launch pricing will be 10% higher than the current A-Spec V6, which means around $50K.

Stinger had me smitten the first test drive over a year ago. Almost pulled the trigger then. At what I bought mine for ($thousands under $40K), totally loaded, and performance to be better or at least the same as the S-Type, I pulled the trigger. Wasn’t planning on it. Opportunity met desire.

My understanding is that a 2.0 4 cylinder turbo is becoming the engine of choice in many models across most makes.

venture

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

ab348 said:

Automotive News is reporting that Edmunds is cutting 130 jobs mostly at their Santa Monica HQ. Hope the forums aren’t another casualty.

These forums have to be making money or they wouldn't be here. If they stop making money they will be gone. You can count on it.

I don’t know, today I don’t see any ads put on the side border or at the top of the page like they used too.

I don't know why they allow ad blockers. Maybe the forums get so many visits and only a small percentage uses one. I don't know. It's a business after all. Edmunds isn't operating it to be nice...I don't think.

When I'm researching a vehicle, I always check Edmunds. The forums is one big reason.

ab348

Well, it's not looking good if you look at the list of positions affected. We better start thinking about a lifeboat.

https://s3-prod.autonews.com/2020-01/Edmunds WARN notice Jan. 2020.pdf

28firefighter

It certainly isn't good news. Hard to say from that list what it'll impact, but you can probably expect a trimming of functionality and features across the Edmunds site - a back-to-basics, if you will.

stickguy

Hard to tell without knowing how many people are in each area. Looks like a big hit to the unit that tries to sell services to dealerships.

stickguy

Acura? I’m surprised if they keep 2 new design sedans. My guess was the new TLX would be a 4 door to replace TLX and RLX, and the ILX would morph into a hatch/coupe/CUV similar to an x2. With a more traditional design CUV also available to compete with the x1, sitting below the RDX.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

Hard to tell without knowing how many people are in each area. Looks like a big hit to the unit that tries to sell services to dealerships.

Yep

stickguy

snakeweasel said:

graphicguy said:

Someone asked why I didn’t wait for the new TLX-S since I’ve been waiting for its release for quite some time.

Living in OH, and being in the embedded tech industry, I know some of the people who design, price and manufacture both Honda and Acura vehicles. They all stay pretty close to the vest regarding future products, but stitching together the many conversations I’ve had with them, I can guess at what’s coming....some obvious, some speculation.

The 2021 base TLX will get the 2.0 4 cyl turbo that comes in the Civic R (slightly detuned) and the Accord Sport. The S-Type isn’t as clear. RLX electric/combustion drivetrain is expensive to make, and would put the S-Type price the same as the RLX (which barely sells). More likely, S-Type will get a turbo V6. Launch pricing will be 10% higher than the current A-Spec V6, which means around $50K.

Stinger had me smitten the first test drive over a year ago. Almost pulled the trigger then. At what I bought mine for ($thousands under $40K), totally loaded, and performance to be better or at least the same as the S-Type, I pulled the trigger. Wasn’t planning on it. Opportunity met desire.

My understanding is that a 2.0 4 cylinder turbo is becoming the engine of choice in many models across most makes.

A 2.0t seems to be the most common motor there is now. Most are excellent too. I’m a big fan.

pensfan83

graphicguy said:

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

Someone asked why I didn’t wait for the new TLX-S since I’ve been waiting for its release for quite some time.

Living in OH, and being in the embedded tech industry, I know some of the people who design, price and manufacture both Honda and Acura vehicles. They all stay pretty close to the vest regarding future products, but stitching together the many conversations I’ve had with them, I can guess at what’s coming....some obvious, some speculation.

The 2021 base TLX will get the 2.0 4 cyl turbo that comes in the Civic R (slightly detuned) and the Accord Sport. The S-Type isn’t as clear. RLX electric/combustion drivetrain is expensive to make, and would put the S-Type price the same as the RLX (which barely sells). More likely, S-Type will get a turbo V6. Launch pricing will be 10% higher than the current A-Spec V6, which means around $50K.

Stinger had me smitten the first test drive over a year ago. Almost pulled the trigger then. At what I bought mine for ($thousands under $40K), totally loaded, and performance to be better or at least the same as the S-Type, I pulled the trigger. Wasn’t planning on it. Opportunity met desire.

Someone on AcuraZine traded out his A-Spec lease about 5 months early. Specifics weren't shared but it sounded like the deal was attractive enough to bail a little early. He swapped into a Accord 2.0T 6 speed citing the uncertain debut of the 2G TLX and more specifically the TLX Type-S.

I still have 8 months and if anyone asks what will replacement my response is "Beats me" because I really have no clue. There's probably 5-6 on the list including 2 EVs.

We have the same taste. I toyed with EVs, too.

I set a limit on what I’ll spend. I’ve exceeded that limit a couple of times and came to the conclusion that past about $45K, the diminishing returns set in. That’s must me, though.

Don’t know why someone would bail on a lease. That seems to be the most financially destructive thing you could do in autodom. But, to each their own.

I test drove the Accord 2.0T. Very nice car. The 4 banger turbo is the real deal. That’s one thing Honda/Acura does as well as anyone in the market....make the smoothest 4 cyl and 6 cyl motors. Plus, the 10-speed in the new Accords is worlds better than the 9-speed in the V6.

Around here, there’s usually quite a few sightings of camo’d Acuras right before release. Same with Hondas (which I saw quite a few of before their most recent release). TLXs? Not a peep.

I think if you’ve seen the new ILX, you’ve seen the upcoming TLX, just in a bigger package.

But, as is Acura’s way, they don’t make anyone want to wait and see what they may be bringing out. My hypothesis above is just that. Not sure how that serves them, as a good portion of people (me included), will just move to a different brand or vehicle.

Heck, Acura may just dump sedans all together and must make SUVs and NSXs. Still like Acura. But recently, they’ve been playing the “we’ll fall behind the competition and race to catch up somewhere down the road” type of business model. They used to be the leaders in the lux/sport arena. Now? Not much!

I've heard, albeit unofficially, Acura will pull you ahead up to 6 months before lease maturation and cover 3 of those payments. I'm sure I'll find out for certain after I make next month's payment but I've got no plans to make an early exit. We aren't even planning to do test drives until mid-summer.

I'm with you though, I wish they would give some sense of direction because instead of exciting current and prospective buyers the radio silence is going to alienate them.

stickguy

Makes no sense to give it back early if you still have to make payments. But perfectly logical if you are just getting another lease to take advantage of the pull ahead to make the swap early.

Michaell

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

Someone asked why I didn’t wait for the new TLX-S since I’ve been waiting for its release for quite some time.

Living in OH, and being in the embedded tech industry, I know some of the people who design, price and manufacture both Honda and Acura vehicles. They all stay pretty close to the vest regarding future products, but stitching together the many conversations I’ve had with them, I can guess at what’s coming....some obvious, some speculation.

The 2021 base TLX will get the 2.0 4 cyl turbo that comes in the Civic R (slightly detuned) and the Accord Sport. The S-Type isn’t as clear. RLX electric/combustion drivetrain is expensive to make, and would put the S-Type price the same as the RLX (which barely sells). More likely, S-Type will get a turbo V6. Launch pricing will be 10% higher than the current A-Spec V6, which means around $50K.

Stinger had me smitten the first test drive over a year ago. Almost pulled the trigger then. At what I bought mine for ($thousands under $40K), totally loaded, and performance to be better or at least the same as the S-Type, I pulled the trigger. Wasn’t planning on it. Opportunity met desire.

Someone on AcuraZine traded out his A-Spec lease about 5 months early. Specifics weren't shared but it sounded like the deal was attractive enough to bail a little early. He swapped into a Accord 2.0T 6 speed citing the uncertain debut of the 2G TLX and more specifically the TLX Type-S.

I still have 8 months and if anyone asks what will replacement my response is "Beats me" because I really have no clue. There's probably 5-6 on the list including 2 EVs.

We have the same taste. I toyed with EVs, too.

I set a limit on what I’ll spend. I’ve exceeded that limit a couple of times and came to the conclusion that past about $45K, the diminishing returns set in. That’s must me, though.

Don’t know why someone would bail on a lease. That seems to be the most financially destructive thing you could do in autodom. But, to each their own.

I test drove the Accord 2.0T. Very nice car. The 4 banger turbo is the real deal. That’s one thing Honda/Acura does as well as anyone in the market....make the smoothest 4 cyl and 6 cyl motors. Plus, the 10-speed in the new Accords is worlds better than the 9-speed in the V6.

Around here, there’s usually quite a few sightings of camo’d Acuras right before release. Same with Hondas (which I saw quite a few of before their most recent release). TLXs? Not a peep.

I think if you’ve seen the new ILX, you’ve seen the upcoming TLX, just in a bigger package.

But, as is Acura’s way, they don’t make anyone want to wait and see what they may be bringing out. My hypothesis above is just that. Not sure how that serves them, as a good portion of people (me included), will just move to a different brand or vehicle.

Heck, Acura may just dump sedans all together and must make SUVs and NSXs. Still like Acura. But recently, they’ve been playing the “we’ll fall behind the competition and race to catch up somewhere down the road” type of business model. They used to be the leaders in the lux/sport arena. Now? Not much!

I've heard, albeit unofficially, Acura will pull you ahead up to 6 months before lease maturation and cover 3 of those payments. I'm sure I'll find out for certain after I make next month's payment but I've got no plans to make an early exit. We aren't even planning to do test drives until mid-summer.

I'm with you though, I wish they would give some sense of direction because instead of exciting current and prospective buyers the radio silence is going to alienate them.

I think that Honda's approach to new model releases is to keep the new stuff under wraps as long as possible, so as not to impact sales of the current model.

stickguy

My guess too.

stickguy

Though they did display the concept car, and IIRC usually those are basically the production car anyway. So just need a release date and maybe more details about powertrain.

graphicguy

Michaell said:

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

pensfan83 said:

graphicguy said:

Someone asked why I didn’t wait for the new TLX-S since I’ve been waiting for its release for quite some time.

Living in OH, and being in the embedded tech industry, I know some of the people who design, price and manufacture both Honda and Acura vehicles. They all stay pretty close to the vest regarding future products, but stitching together the many conversations I’ve had with them, I can guess at what’s coming....some obvious, some speculation.

The 2021 base TLX will get the 2.0 4 cyl turbo that comes in the Civic R (slightly detuned) and the Accord Sport. The S-Type isn’t as clear. RLX electric/combustion drivetrain is expensive to make, and would put the S-Type price the same as the RLX (which barely sells). More likely, S-Type will get a turbo V6. Launch pricing will be 10% higher than the current A-Spec V6, which means around $50K.

Stinger had me smitten the first test drive over a year ago. Almost pulled the trigger then. At what I bought mine for ($thousands under $40K), totally loaded, and performance to be better or at least the same as the S-Type, I pulled the trigger. Wasn’t planning on it. Opportunity met desire.

Someone on AcuraZine traded out his A-Spec lease about 5 months early. Specifics weren't shared but it sounded like the deal was attractive enough to bail a little early. He swapped into a Accord 2.0T 6 speed citing the uncertain debut of the 2G TLX and more specifically the TLX Type-S.

I still have 8 months and if anyone asks what will replacement my response is "Beats me" because I really have no clue. There's probably 5-6 on the list including 2 EVs.

We have the same taste. I toyed with EVs, too.

I set a limit on what I’ll spend. I’ve exceeded that limit a couple of times and came to the conclusion that past about $45K, the diminishing returns set in. That’s must me, though.

Don’t know why someone would bail on a lease. That seems to be the most financially destructive thing you could do in autodom. But, to each their own.

I test drove the Accord 2.0T. Very nice car. The 4 banger turbo is the real deal. That’s one thing Honda/Acura does as well as anyone in the market....make the smoothest 4 cyl and 6 cyl motors. Plus, the 10-speed in the new Accords is worlds better than the 9-speed in the V6.

Around here, there’s usually quite a few sightings of camo’d Acuras right before release. Same with Hondas (which I saw quite a few of before their most recent release). TLXs? Not a peep.

I think if you’ve seen the new ILX, you’ve seen the upcoming TLX, just in a bigger package.

But, as is Acura’s way, they don’t make anyone want to wait and see what they may be bringing out. My hypothesis above is just that. Not sure how that serves them, as a good portion of people (me included), will just move to a different brand or vehicle.

Heck, Acura may just dump sedans all together and must make SUVs and NSXs. Still like Acura. But recently, they’ve been playing the “we’ll fall behind the competition and race to catch up somewhere down the road” type of business model. They used to be the leaders in the lux/sport arena. Now? Not much!

I've heard, albeit unofficially, Acura will pull you ahead up to 6 months before lease maturation and cover 3 of those payments. I'm sure I'll find out for certain after I make next month's payment but I've got no plans to make an early exit. We aren't even planning to do test drives until mid-summer.

I'm with you though, I wish they would give some sense of direction because instead of exciting current and prospective buyers the radio silence is going to alienate them.

I think that Honda's approach to new model releases is to keep the new stuff under wraps as long as possible, so as not to impact sales of the current model.

I used to think that, too. But, as more and more vehicles are leases, does it really matter what the new models are? I mean, the vast majority of people couldn't buy the new model when released even if they wanted to given they're locked into a lease. This is especially true of companies who are considered luxury brands.

Acura befuddles me, and not in a good way. Love their products. But, how they can continue to plow money into the RLX, given it's downright teeny sales, over what seems to be the last 15 years, is a business model I can't relate to.

Same way for the TL/TLX. What got them to this point in the market was having one big luxurious coupe/sedan (Legend) that leads the pack, one sporty coupe/sedan (Integra) that leads the pack, add in their S/CUVs, and that's compelling. RDX looks like a good vehicle, for the price. Everything else and this point? ILX wasn't very compelling from the get-go. RLX is irrelevant. TLX needs a total overhaul (and some press to get some dealership traffic). Even the MDX, their cash cow, has fallen behind in the luxury SUV segment.

In short, Acura isn't doing themselves any favors. And, I say that as someone who's a big fan.

stickguy

I think the full redo of the MDX is due out soon. That’s probably highest priority. With TLX out shortly after, basically that concept car from last year. That leaves sorting out the ILX (probably including a sub-RDX CUV) and ditching the RLX.

There you go, lineup resolved!

If the want to be frisky, reboot The S2000 as an affordable semi luxury sports car. A nicer Miata that undercuts the Z4 price by a lot.

Acura does need need product, quick. Only the RDX is really fresh or modern.

driver100

snakeweasel said:

driver100 said:

ab348 said:

Automotive News is reporting that Edmunds is cutting 130 jobs mostly at their Santa Monica HQ. Hope the forums aren’t another casualty.

We should find a place to meet up again if anything happens. Any ideas? Oldfarmers farm in June?

Well if the forums go to the great server in the sky there are multiple places we could restart this forum. Delphi Forums comes to mind.

Good, what topic should we look for?

roadburner

jmonroe said:

driver100 said:

jmonroe said:

snakeweasel said:

cdnpinhead said:

Just keep in mind that the plethora of passwords, the keys on your ring and all the rest is a monument to the fact that people in general (not specifically) are scum. They want to steal from you and succeed more often than not.

I didn't used to think this way, but that was 50+ years ago.

Just remember that locks just keep honest people honest.

I'm honest...honest. Just because I have a tool that can pick locks, is no reason to watch me all the time.

jmonroe

My friend who is a very astute businessman told me, "Don't trust people who say honest, or honestly.....etc".
When you are honest, you just are, you don't have to tell anyone.

You can never be too careful.

jmonroe

As my father used to say, when someone says, “It’s not about the money, it’s the principle.” you can be absolutely certain that it’s ALL about the money.

tjc78

The forums are outsourced to Vanilla. I can't imagine that the hosting costs are more than the ad revenue.

In other words, I'd think that the forums run in the black.

fintail

I don't recall seeing ads for some time. Maybe on the landing pages (but I have these bookmarked)?

Of course, bandwidth/hosting doesn't cost what it did in 1997, but I doubt these turn a profit, although some of the Q&A venues might get enough traffic to do something.

oldfarmer50 said:

I don’t know, today I don’t see any ads put on the side border or at the top of the page like they used too.

qbrozen

don't forget the mods lavish paychecks and benefits.

oldfarmer50

venture said:

oldfarmer50 said:

venture said:

ab348 said:

Automotive News is reporting that Edmunds is cutting 130 jobs mostly at their Santa Monica HQ. Hope the forums aren’t another casualty.

These forums have to be making money or they wouldn't be here. If they stop making money they will be gone. You can count on it.

I don’t know, today I don’t see any ads put on the side border or at the top of the page like they used too.

I don't know why they allow ad blockers. Maybe the forums get so many visits and only a small percentage uses one. I don't know. It's a business after all. Edmunds isn't operating it to be nice...I don't think.

When I'm researching a vehicle, I always check Edmunds. The forums is one big reason.

Edmunds is invaluable in researching cars. I always use TMV as a counter to industry biased KBB or NADA. Then I pop in and out of various forums asking questions on known model problems and reliability. Invaluable.

Speaking of which, I was watching a video about car buying and the presenter came up with an often recommended suggestion to hide your trade during the negotiation. I’ve never understood that tactic as your trade will eventually have to be discussed and if you’ve beat up the dealer on the sticker he’ll just beat you up when you mention the trade.

I don’t worry about the break down since I’ve adopted the one chance out the door price strategy.

Can someone explain why hiding your trade is still a thing?

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Well, it's not looking good if you look at the list of positions affected. We better start thinking about a lifeboat.

https://s3-prod.autonews.com/2020-01/Edmunds WARN notice Jan. 2020.pdf

I’m reading that as staff reduction post merger. Is Edmunds being bought by another company?

stickguy

well, if they bundle it, you can be shown a great deal on the front end, making it up on the trade. The logic is to just focus on getting the best deal on the purchase. Once that is nailed down, if you want to shop the trade, it is more of a "clean" transaction since you will (should be) getting a real offer on it. And are free to take it elsewhere to sell.

Today, with Carmax, Carvana, etc. it is super easy to have a locked in offer in hand before you shop up at the dealer, so can just focus on the new car, and pull out the buy offer at the end if you want to dealer to match it.

But no, if you know what you are doing, it really should not make any difference. I just think the advice stemmed from the old days of shell games, and buyers having next to no real knowledge about pricing, etc. So the more parts the dealer can start moving around, the more they can hide from the buyer.

driver100

Maybe the readership....that is all us posters and readers, adds to the cost of ads....reaches more people. Maybe we are a resource.

graphicguy

Well....if these forums are indeed being jettisoned, I do hope they offer them to perhaps Car and Driver, AUTOMOBILE, Road and Track, something of that ilk. I would imagine they would be quite interested in a boost in eyeballs as big as these forums would give them.

@oldfarmer50 ...I personally don't understand hiding the trade, either. If you have a really skinny deal on the car you're purchasing, springing the trade on them after that will only get you a low ball on the trade. Conversely, if there's any meat left on the bone, they can shift some of that to your trade. To me, hiding a trade is a waste of time. It only prolongs getting a deal done, and it doesn't net you anything.

It never ceases to amaze me the lengths some will go to nickel and dime a deal, by both the dealer and the buyer. Don't know if the guy is still around, but there was one such person in the Accord threads who advocated emailing every dealer within a 250 mile radius, asking for their best price. Obviously, most said "come on in". Others gave a low ball, which couldn't be honored once the buyer walked in the door because one thing or another wasn't figured in. Some would offer MSRP. Most just didn't respond.

After all the time and effort, his advice netted next to nothing as a good research and single offer at the nearest dealership got people.

Make an offer, with or without a trade. Dealer's response will either be yes or no. If it's no, make the offer to the next nearest dealership. If it's no again, your offer is too low. Yes there's trunk money. Mostly, we don't know how much that is.

That's what happened on my Stinger. Apparently there was quite a bit, as well as year end cash and/or bonuses stacked on top of that. Did I know any of that? No! But, I was prepared to buy if my (seriously can't believe it) offer was accepted.

People really do tie themselves up in knots over buying a car. Offer what you think the car is worth to you. Only thing the dealer can say is yes, or no. If it's yes, you're happy....dealer's happy. It it's no, neither of you are happy. Be happy!

stickguy

One of the best parts of leasing. So easy to shop. Just have to discuss 2 numbers. DAS and monthly payment. And real easy to compare between dealers.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

well, if they bundle it, you can be shown a great deal on the front end, making it up on the trade. The logic is to just focus on getting the best deal on the purchase. Once that is nailed down, if you want to shop the trade, it is more of a "clean" transaction since you will (should be) getting a real offer on it. And are free to take it elsewhere to sell.

Today, with Carmax, Carvana, etc. it is super easy to have a locked in offer in hand before you shop up at the dealer, so can just focus on the new car, and pull out the buy offer at the end if you want to dealer to match it.

But no, if you know what you are doing, it really should not make any difference. I just think the advice stemmed from the old days of shell games, and buyers having next to no real knowledge about pricing, etc. So the more parts the dealer can start moving around, the more they can hide from the buyer.

Very perceptive since the video I was watching was explaining the old “4 square” car bamboozle.

Here’s another question. Where can you find data on how long a car has been on a dealer’s used car lot?

stickguy

On the lot? Look at the date of manufacture tag for a good idea. Can also get close from a car fax.

I like the 4 square. At least it is all the numbers separated. Better than when the have a pad with numbers scribbled all over and just 1 circled, with no real explanation of what it is or where they came up with it!

carnaught

stickguy said:

One of the best parts of leasing. So easy to shop. Just have to discuss 2 numbers. DAS and monthly payment. And real easy to compare between dealers.

The caveat, though, is the disposal fee.

explorerx4

Over the holidays I was talking to a guy who had just turned leased Bolt.
Said he could get abut 270 miles, if weather was warm and he didn't use the AC.
I the winter he could get about 160 if he used only heated seats and steering wheel, no cabin heat.
When we were leaving dinner, I saw he had a gas Civic.
He said he would try an EV again in about 2025.

cdnpinhead

Sometimes reality intrudes.

Michaell

This should put some of the speculation to rest ....

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200129005766/en/CarMax-Partners-Digital-Automotive-Leader-Edmunds

28firefighter

Well - that explains a lot. No wonder you're pitching your dealer services that could compete with CarMax...

JustinS

We don't have any plans to get rid of our forums community! If anything, we are wanting to expand our community :)

ab348

28firefighter said:

Well - that explains a lot. No wonder you're pitching your dealer services that could compete with CarMax...

If Edmunds is aligned with CarMax and directs to or otherwise favours that channel when providing information, there could be a credibility problem.

driver100

carnaught said:

stickguy said:

One of the best parts of leasing. So easy to shop. Just have to discuss 2 numbers. DAS and monthly payment. And real easy to compare between dealers.

The caveat, though, is the disposal fee.

...wouldn't you want to know the Buy Back amount?

driver100

Pretty exciting news...2 giant companies joining, never know where that leads.......

I had a question I was thinking about this morning on my way to tennis. If I take my 2014 MB to an indie garage for service, does all that get reported on CARFAX, or is it only work done at the dealer? Are all garages and body shops hooked into CARFAX?
Then there is the backyard mechanic or the guy who attempts to do his own oil change......what happens there?

stickguy

DIY. that never shows up. Commercial places, depends if they report. some dealers do, some don't. same for small shops and chain places. Not all do, and some do but without any real detail.

basically it is a crap shoot.

andres3

https://amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/opinion/9171/why-radars-detectors-matter-more-than-ever?source=dam

Great read on why Waze is lame on its own, you have to be a power user of all technology information available in order to be the BEST driver you can be!

roadburner

All the technology is merely a tool. If you want to avoid tickets you have to have situational awareness and be able to correctly interpret and act on the information your detector, Waze, etc. is providing to you.

Michaell

andres3 said:

https://amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/opinion/9171/why-radars-detectors-matter-more-than-ever?source=dam

Great read on why Waze is lame on its own, you have to be a power user of all technology information available in order to be the BEST driver you can be!

What is your definition of BEST?

Fastest?
Fewest tickets?
Fewest accidents?

sda

Warning, long post. Looking for advice. I’m not sure whether to approach the manager of this repair garage or go directly to the BBB. About 20 months ago the starter in my Accord was replaced. My gut told me to have the car sent to the Honda dealer, but the garage agreed to replace the starter with an oem Honda starter. It was a matter of convenience and I gave them the ok. Last Wednesday when I started the car the starter made a loud crunching noise, but started. Not good. I was told when I had it replaced it had a 3/36 warranty, yet when I called to let them know of the issue I was told it was a 2/24 warranty (still covered) and to bring it in. The manager that I worked with initially is no longer there. I dropped the car off Fri evening and received a call Sat morning stating the starter was fine, BUT, the flywheel had damaged teeth, it needed a torque converter and there was a rear oil seal leak, $1774 to fix. Oddly, I had the car serviced the week before at Honda and there was no mention of an oil leak. I asked them to button up the car and I was going to take it to Honda. The Honda dealer called, said the other garage did not replace the starter with an oem, but with a rebuilt aftermarket, the flywheel was not adjusted to accommodate the replaced starter correctly and they would not put that starter back on the car as they could not confirm whether the gears on the non-oem starter weren’t damaged. So I now have a new Honda oem starter, other work to fix the issue and am about $1000 poorer to have it replaced correctly. I did insist they give me the non-oem starter that should never have been installed. In the end, the independent garage misled me twice, once by incorrectly installing the non-oem starter which should have been oem, and secondly, suggesting repairs that weren’t needed when I took it in to address the recurring starter issue. Thoughts on how to approach getting reimbursement from the independent garage, and how much? Full amount, a percentage? I appreciate any suggestions. As I have learned
the hard way more than once, ‘buyer beware’.

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

This should put some of the speculation to rest ....

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20200129005766/en/CarMax-Partners-Digital-Automotive-Leader-Edmunds

Merger...nailed it! Can it be that I’m actually as smart as I think I am?😄

oldfarmer50

JustinS said:

We don't have any plans to get rid of our forums community! If anything, we are wanting to expand our community

Thanks for spoiling my big back yard poster’s BBQ.😢 Now what am I going to do with all this potato salad?

stickguy

SDA, I would give them a chance first. Document this formally, in detail, with paperwork (get a full write up if needed) from the dealer, tell them that you expect them to pay for this and that will be the end of it. If they cut a check, consider it a lesson learned. If they stonewall, make sure they know (after giving them a chance to take the high road first) that you will be pursuing legal and/or public recourse.

I find that sometimes, being polite and businesslike gets what you want. But starting off like a bull in a china shop gets nowhere. Don't make it antagonistic unless they force you to.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

Warning, long post. Looking for advice. I’m not sure whether to approach the manager of this repair garage or go directly to the BBB. About 20 months ago the starter in my Accord was replaced. My gut told me to have the car sent to the Honda dealer, but the garage agreed to replace the starter with an oem Honda starter. It was a matter of convenience and I gave them the ok. Last Wednesday when I started the car the starter made a loud crunching noise, but started. Not good. I was told when I had it replaced it had a 3/36 warranty, yet when I called to let them know of the issue I was told it was a 2/24 warranty (still covered) and to bring it in. The manager that I worked with initially is no longer there. I dropped the car off Fri evening and received a call Sat morning stating the starter was fine, BUT, the flywheel had damaged teeth, it needed a torque converter and there was a rear oil seal leak, $1774 to fix. Oddly, I had the car serviced the week before at Honda and there was no mention of an oil leak. I asked them to button up the car and I was going to take it to Honda. The Honda dealer called, said the other garage did not replace the starter with an oem, but with a rebuilt aftermarket, the flywheel was not adjusted to accommodate the replaced starter correctly and they would not put that starter back on the car as they could not confirm whether the gears on the non-oem starter weren’t damaged. So I now have a new Honda oem starter, other work to fix the issue and am about $1000 poorer to have it replaced correctly. I did insist they give me the non-oem starter that should never have been installed. In the end, the independent garage misled me twice, once by incorrectly installing the non-oem starter which should have been oem, and secondly, suggesting repairs that weren’t needed when I took it in to address the recurring starter issue. Thoughts on how to approach getting reimbursement from the independent garage, and how much? Full amount, a percentage? I appreciate any suggestions. As I have learned
the hard way more than once, ‘buyer beware’.

Get the Honda shop to document in writing, send a copy of said documentation to the indie shop with a 30 day demand for reimbursement and if they balk, sue in small claims.
Sounds like a slam dunk win as if they don’t pay you can have the sheriff seize their tools.

As to amount, they should refund everything you paid to them since they lied. They should also reimburse you for all the corrective repairs at Honda since their incompetence was the proximate cause.

driver100

+1....with stick and oldfarmer.

nyccarguy

JustinS said:

We don't have any plans to get rid of our forums community! If anything, we are wanting to expand our community

Would you call it a "Merger of Equals?"

qbrozen

EXCEPT... do you have in writing their claim they used OEM the first time?

imidazol97

I suspect the repair shop's definition of OEM is a rebuilt Honda starter from a rebuilder. It was a Honda starter on a Honda and then failed. Now it has been rebuilt.

Clearly someone didn't know how to check the clearances on the starter's engagement with the engine. Shims are a part of getting the right mesh clearance.

Sounds like the Honda garage is a bit over dramatic about the potential of a "foreign source" starter (not from their parts bin) being potentially damaging to a Honda. The teeth on the starter can be inspected... The mesh with the ring gear is adjustable with shims.

This sounds a little like a ship shod local mechanic.

I recall in the 90s where the big push from the relatively new foreign brands was that no one else could work on the certain foreign brands. They had to always be brought back to the original dealer for any work. I recall some implying they wouldn't honor warranty unless all service visits had been to Honda or toyota stores. No one else was capable of working on them.