Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Toyota 4WD systems explained

1212224262749

Comments

  • wintercruisrwintercruisr Member Posts: 13
    thanks for tips for sand driving, folks. have another question for you but maybe wrong forum: changed tires on tlc from 275-70-16 to 265-75-16, truck is about an inch or two higher, but shift points seem off, compared to old smaller tires. truck seemed quicker with the smaller tires. local toy dealer says they know of no way to reprogram, but local mechanic says it can be done. speedo is also 2-3 mph off but not a problem. any experience with this?

    ps. also installed bilstein shocks and they greatly reduced body roll in corners around town.
  • steve287steve287 Member Posts: 7
    Isn't this the Sequoia discussion area? What's with all the 4 Runner posts in here? Even Land Cruiser posts. Why don;t you knuckleheads go to Dodge for the info? Differetn trucks guys. You're gonna run into problems!
  • bryan28bryan28 Member Posts: 59
    did you install shocks yourself? It looks easy in the book, but if you have any tips it would be great. thanks
  • slcamtslcamt Member Posts: 37
    Some people seem angry around these boards. Always shouting and telling people what to do. Lets all go sit in our TOYOTA'S and enjoy the good decsions that we have made and not worry about what the other guys are doing.
  • pschreckpschreck Member Posts: 524
    This board is for ALL Toyota 4WD systems.

    The 4Runner and Land Cruiser are both Toyota vehicles.
  • sequoiasoonsequoiasoon Member Posts: 223
    Just my personal experience. Great advertising at AAMCO but all are independently owned and some don't have the "best techs". Knock on wood my Sequoia does not have any tranny issues currently. The Ford Explorer (exploder) it replaced.......

    101,000 no warning tranny fluid started "pouring" out of front of tranny almost in front of AA beep beep MCO. They had to drop tranny to find problem. Bad bearing caused torque converter to wobble and trashed seals etc. We can fix it for about $2,000 includes 12 month / 12,000 mile warranty. Tax, etc. a couple extra parts $2300 I'm good to go 7 days later. No issues, nice! 13,000 miles and 13 months later(how convenient) hear whine from tranny RPM related. Bring it back to have checked. Bad pump inside tranny, Torque converter always gets sent out, repeat customer just out of warranty they covered the labor as a "good will gesture" parts $460 (3 days) fixed again OK. 3 days later won't shift into 1st gear bring it back, keep for a day doesn't do it can't duplicate not a problem. take home, next AM same thing no 1st gear after 1 minute drive. Go direct to shop, doesn't do it. Take home, next AM same thing back to shop (and buy FOR SALE SIGNS) 2 days can't duplicate problem. Have MGR take home still no problem. Pick up next day all is well. Next morning (Sunday) no 1st gear 1 minute drive, right to shop block bay door take keys home. Monday AM get to shop before they do and wait. Tech shows up, drive truck FINALLY no 1st gear, says it feels like valvebody is sticking when cold. leave truck drop valve body (dirt or something causing something to stick) NO CHARGE (WOO HOO) They always kept it in the shop 60+ degrees and the MGR has a heated garage in his house. I unfortunately have no garage so it sat in 30 degree driveway. When tranny warmed up (shop, garage, and 7 minute drive to AAMCO) the metal expanded enough to not cause sticking problem! 3 weeks later another noise sounds like pump / something rubbing out of round. Bring back, drop tranny install new bearings, bell housing, centering pins (seems it wasn't a tight fit, kind of oval from original vibration) 3 day's to get all done again, at least there's no charge and got 6 month warranty signed by owner. Truck was quiet and seemed ok OFF LOADED ASAP.

    BEWARE, AAMCO only replaces the worn / out of spec parts on rebuild, not everything. So your re-built tranny has 15 new pieces (but the other 985 still have 100,000 on them) Get full info on what will be replaced and do some research even if the car sits for a day or two.

    The Ford dealer and my regular mechanic would have put in a Ford Factory Re-built unit in (2 day turn around) $1900 complete at both places and OH YEA, 3 year / 36,000 mile Ford Factory Warranty!! Now I really feel good I went to the Transmission Experts.
  • slcamtslcamt Member Posts: 37
    Thank you for stating the VERY OBVIOUS.
  • famngo2002famngo2002 Member Posts: 2
    I'm planning on a Tacoma double cab, but even the 2003 is a little too hard on my pocket, but I don't know is there any other older version. I've never seen any Tacoma double cab older than '03. Can anyone help me, since when they made that, and how does it compare to Nissan Frontier.
  • wintercruisrwintercruisr Member Posts: 13
    Local brake and muffler shop installed four shocks for about two hours time, $100 +/-. LC rides more like a truck but corners a lot better. Also replaced all differentials with syn oil. Larger tires make for slower starts, are fairly noisy, will probably use them (Mich ltx at's) for winter tires only.
  • abcabc Member Posts: 9
    I have reread the info on this message center and the Toyota 4Runner brochure, and have talked with everybody at the dealer so please bear with me.

    Is 4-Hi a genuine full time 4WD that can be used continuously on concrete or dirt? Is it identical to the full-time 4WD with the V8? What are the differences, if any?

    In 2-Hi, which set of wheels are the non-driving wheels? Are the axles from the non-driving wheels totally inactive and not turning when vehicle is moving? By that I mean are they fully separated from their wheels and the active drivetrain?

    Thank you all.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    The 4-hi is a full-time 4WD and can be used on pavement. I don't know if it is identical to the 4WD on the V8. In 2-hi, the rear wheels are driven. I don't know where the disconnect is for the front (axles or hubs).
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    yes, once engaged, the V6 4wd system is identical (at least in function) to the V8 4wd system. It can be used on ANY surface. It has the same Torsen center diff.

    In 2wd mode, the rear wheels are driving. Yes, the front wheels are totally disengaged.
  • aggiedogaggiedog Member Posts: 238
    I leave mine in 4wd all the time. I have experienced virtually no difference in gas mileage and no problems with tire wear either.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    As usual.
  • robertbickrobertbick Member Posts: 28
    Can the Sequoia also be left in 4wd on any surface?
  • pschreckpschreck Member Posts: 524
    Absolutely. Mine has been in 4WD almost continuously since 2001.
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    When you do this, it MAY actually be better for tire wear.
  • aggiedogaggiedog Member Posts: 238
    I have 46K on the original Dunlop Grabbers on my 00 LTD 4Runner and while they aren't the best tires I believe I can put another 15k to 20K miles on them. They have lots of tread life left on them. I do rotate them every 5K.
  • ddw5ddw5 Member Posts: 23
    One of the reasons I bought the V-6 4runner was the ability to drive in 2wd 90% of the year. I could see no reason to run power through the additional half-shafts and differential when it is completely unnecessary. This has to reduce drive line stress and increase long term durability. I've heard enough horror stories with high-mileage full time 4wd/awd that I didn't consider it. Any thoughts to the contrary?
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Toyota LC (similar to 4runner's full-time V8 system) has been around since 1998/1999 with the current 4wd system. I have not seen one case of failure or problem. Remember, this LC has been around the world.

    The center differential on the TLC and 4runner (also since 1999 with the full-time capability) is GEAR-based, not clutch- or viscous coupling based. Gear-based differetial is far more reliable/durable and requires little maintenance.

    I don't think that it will be a problem for the Toyota 4wd systems.

    Full-time is ALWAYS safer than 2wd. Just imagine running into an oil slick in the middle of the road on a sunny day. Or how about an emergency evasive maneuver.

    There's plus and minus to both systems. Durability is likely NOT a minus to the full-time system.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Delivering engine drive or braking torque to the front wheels/tires will ALWAYS reduce the level of roadbed adhesion available strictly for directional control.

    That's mostly what's wrong and basically unsafe about FWD, unless you practice and get really good at quickly popping your automatic transmission into neutral.

    The very best 4WD/AWD system would be one that uncouples the engine from the front driveline the instant the yaw sensor indicates side forces there.
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Well, the 4runner varies torque to front axle.

    ALWAYS.
  • aggiedogaggiedog Member Posts: 238
    I hit said oil slick which spun me around like a top. I thank God there was no one around me because I ended up in the opposite lane. I was in 2WD at the time. I've been in 4WD ever since.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    I'll categorically disagree with Wwest's characterization that adding driving or braking on front tires to create an all wheel drive system is bad. Driving all four wheels all the time is a good thing under any circumstance you can possibly come up with. Clearly braking is too, but I'll assume you did not really mean that front braking is a handicap.

    Granted, torque at the steering wheels DOES reduce available traction for steering. But if the vehicle is at the limit of traction on a slippery surface, then all manner of shortcomings accrue to any 2wd system vs an all wheel drive system which dimish the 2wd system in the overall performance envelope.

    For instance, I'd bet I can get my underpowered AWD Subaru around a slippery (icy) road course faster than ANY 2wd vehicle. Yes, there'd be a corner or two where I understeered, but that 2WD vehicle would require very high skill levels to handle constant oversteer, plus be unable to accelerate on the straights like I can. No contest, all wheels driven is safer.

    As for "drive train stress" mentioned above, consider this. In 2wd, you're subjecting the rear axle and components to 100% of the engine's stress and force. In 4wd, you've just cut that in half and nicely spread the stress between the front and rear axles.

    IdahoDoug
  • ddw5ddw5 Member Posts: 23
    All good points for sure. Granted, none of the guys I know with 4wd problems drove Toyota's...one more reason I got the 4runner. I think the stability control now standard mitigates most of the safety concerns but certainly not the most extreme mentioned above. By the way, does anyone know whether the front halfshats are turing in 2wd mode or if they are and are simply not powered?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Running an AWD continuously on a slippery track, fully knowledgeable of same, is not exactly the same thing as the rare occassion John Q Public encounters in an unprepared manner.

    My referral to front braking was with regards to engine lagging torque, the front driven wheels driving the engine, not to ordinary braking.
  • dushma1dushma1 Member Posts: 8
    I am looking to buying V6 Limited 4X4. I want to know about 4 Speed vs 5 Speed that how much it makes a difference mechanically and how?
    I am aware the 4 speed is with V6 and 5 speed is with V8
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    5-speed auto has a stronger (numerically high) 1st gear. Therefore, acceleration from stop is more lively. In addition, in off-roading, the strong 1st gear allows for more torque multiplication (better crawl ratio). If you do any towing, then 5-speed will be a good thing.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    allows the engine to remain more tightly within it high torque "band"/range during serious acceleration. not disputing lower first gear either.
  • brianbmbrianbm Member Posts: 55
    Two things. First, I've just wandered into this forum and thread while researching my next surf buggy, and I want to thank Cliffy1 for writing (first page) a heck of a good discussion of how Toyota's 4x4 systems work. Now I know what an open differential is.... second, a broad question for advice. When my 1993 Explorer finally becomes cheaper to replace then repair (not yet, it's been good to me) an older TLC is a possibility. I surfcast: therefore I drive on sand and stony beaches. Cloth upholstery is fine (and preferred). I don't tow and have never needed low gear even in the Explorer. However, I do need ground clearance, and corrosion resistance is a concern. Are there any model years, or particular drivetrain options, that I should avoid? And thanks again to Cliffy1.
    For some reason the board isn't letting me send a PM.
  • dushma1dushma1 Member Posts: 8
    What kind of difference does the gas make? If I put mid grade instead of premium as suggested by Toyota.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Please check out the main Toyota 4Runner board for the fuel questions, and Toyota Land Cruiser for which years to buy or avoid.

    Steve, Host
  • intmed99intmed99 Member Posts: 485
    Nothing from what i hear. 4runner's V8 engine is a truck engine, not a high-perf engine...so gas grade makes very little difference.
  • apminnieapminnie Member Posts: 1
    I have recently purchased a used 2002 RAV4 4X4 auto. transmission. The problem is I have no clue about 4X4's. I don't even know I to put it in that mode. Can anyone give me a quick lesson? Also, how do you turn on the fog lights?
  • mm3051mm3051 Member Posts: 10
    What is the difference between a AWD vehicle, (Honda Pilot) and a full time 4WD vehicle such as the 04' 4Runner? I know this is pretty basic, but one has to start somewhere... Thanks much.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Try the start of the discussion, especially post #2.

    And check out the start of 4WD & AWD systems explained too.

    That should give you some background!

    Steve, Host
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    This board doesn't have a PM feature. If you click on my profile, you get my e-mail address and I'm pretty quick to respond to private inquiries, although most questions can and should be answered here for the benefit of all.

    As to your specific question, you might get better advice on the Land Cruiser topic, but I'll give you the basics here. Anything from '93 to '97 is essentially the same beast when it comes to corrosion resistance, ground clearance, power, towing and off-road capabilities. I believe it was in '95 (my memory is fading of the exact years on some of these options) that you could get a locking front and rear differential.
  • hank14hank14 Member Posts: 133
    Since I have had my 99 LC (4 months), I have been using primarily low octane fuel, which is 86 where I live. I have not noticed a problem with pinging or performance until I was pulling some stumps out of the ground around the house on Saturday. Under a full load, in 4Lo with rear diff locked, the engine would ping heavily. The guy I bought the vehicle from said he only used regular unleaded since he had been driving it (last 30,000 miles). I am not sure about before that.
    The engine now has 121,000 miles on it. I think it is asking for better fuel from now on. BTW, the highest grade fuel we have here is 90 octane, due to the altitude (3500 + feet).
    As far as stump pulling goes, traction was still a problem. 3/4 tires just dug in. I, however, was not stuck, and easily climbed right out.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    is only certified to pull 7700 lbs.

    Stump pulling can run as high as 50,000lbs...
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    The last time I watched someone pulling (pushing, actually) stumps, he was using a Caterpillar D8 tractor.
  • hank14hank14 Member Posts: 133
    The last time I saw someone pulling stumps was in a Chevy Silverado commercial, which is what I was trying to emulate. Actually, these were New Mexico desert stumps- dried up, dead pecan trees approx. 6-10 inches in diameter.

    Thanks for the dozer idea, though- I hadn't thought of that.
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    The stump pulling I saw was two D8s clearing a soon-to-be-filled reservoir in South Carolina
  • pjaatpdx1000pjaatpdx1000 Member Posts: 16
    I was going to replace my Subaru Outback with a AWD 6 Cyl HL. Will the HL be as good, better, or worse in the snow and ice? Any experience out there?
  • derf11derf11 Member Posts: 3
    Why are 4 runner and Land Cruiser messages in here.

    Where is the Sequoia post area?
  • nedzelnedzel Member Posts: 787
    This board is for Toyota 4WD systems. It is for all Toyota 4WD trucks, including 4Runner, Land Cruiser, and yes, Sequioa too.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Same systems..
  • spleckspleck Member Posts: 114
    The Toyota 4WD system board is cross-listed in each of the appropriate vehicle sections. I believe its home is actually the SUVs section. Note that the title does not specify a vehicle. I get here through the RAV4.
  • steenh1steenh1 Member Posts: 28
    Can someone explain why solid axle is considered better for off-roading than independent suspension and in what off-roading circumstances it has the biggest impact?

    Recently got a 99 LC after having a 4x4 Expo... no comparison. LC has the nicest ride and smoothest engine/tranny combo I've driven in a big truck. I have seen posts talking about the superior 4x4 abilities of the pre-98's due to the solid axle. I understand that Ind Susp doesn't have the locking differential, but other than that, what are the issues?

    Thanks,
  • vodgutvodgut Member Posts: 162
    In a live axle vehicle, it's superior offroad because it promotes better clearance when going over uneven surfaces. With a live axle the lowest point, usually the differential, will always be in relation to the average of the left and right wheel, since it's a straight line between the wheels. With independent suspension, the wheels move independently, so the differential can hang lower than the average of the two wheels, because the axle is no longer a straight line between the two wheels. Thus live axles provide better clearance in offroad situations than does independent suspension.

    I don't think there's any reason why lockers are incompatabile with independent suspension, that's just a function of the differential. Did the LC lose the lockers at the same time it got independent suspension?
  • steelcruisersteelcruiser Member Posts: 402
    Having owned both IFS and solid axle LCs, IMO, IFS gives away very little, if anything, to the live axle in general off road situations--in extreme off road situations, maybe. Both solid and IFS LCs are very capable vehicles in any off road situation.

    In 2000, the LC switched to the traction control set up that uses the ABS to transfer power to the wheels that have traction. Prior to that, the IFS LC had an optional rear locker. F/R lockers on the solid axle 80 series were an option--not a standard feature on all 80 series.

    In theory, this traction control system will get you out of a "jam" even if you have traction on only one wheel.
Sign In or Register to comment.