Honda Accord Quality Control Issues

aming

I check the weather network everyday before I plan anything outdoors. I live beside the Airport and the weather channel gets it's readings from there. Within 2 mins of driving I have that temp registering on my corolla gauge +-1 deg. That's how I know.

BodyDouble: Isn't their a "clause/law" stating that "if a car is in shop for eg. 3 weeks out of the first 2 months" that a car is considered a lemon?

I thought I had heard something like that.

lancerfixer

There's a larger margin for error using degrees C vs. F. 100 distict demarcations between 2 absolutes vs. 212.

ickes_mobile- read the next sentence down in #1899.

isellhondas

Thank you...Exactly my point!

bburton1

If there is a way to calibrate these puppies-hold a piece of ice on the sensor for a while-that is 32F. If no calibration-do a mental one.

Use thermos to monitor roasting coffee and they are almost never calibrated correctly. Use boiling water for these puppies.

bodydouble

What I've heard is most lemon laws include a clause that says if, after three attempts, the problem still cannot be rectified..... However, problem does not mean just any problem. Most lemon laws require the problem to be one that materially affects the safety and/or performance of the vehicle or one that has a marked effect on the value of the vehicle.

bodydouble

Just as ickes said, I think most radio stations in metropolitan areas are a little more sophisticated than that. I know I can get temp info for "at the airport", "near the water", "in the valley", "in the alpine area", etc, etc.

yrmac

There is no "lemon law" in Canada, per se. However, there is an option available for the consumer and it is the CAMVAP (Canadian Motor Vehicle Arbitration Plan). CAMVAP is funded by the vehicle manufacturers so I guess you have to take this into consideration. For what I heard, cases that goes to CAMVAP are decided by an arbitrator(s) and any buybacks that are awarded are calculated on a pro-rated basis.
Also, there aren't alot of buybacks on cases that goes to CAMVAP, most are awarded with repairs.
Another way is litigation which will cost you around $100,000 just to take the manufacturer to court.

yrmac

Celsius and Fahrenheit are both units and therefore margin of error cannot be attributed to a temp. being a Celsius or a Fahrenheit. In Metrology, margin of error lies on the equipment itself and not the unit. If an equipment reads both F and C, that equipment will have an equal +/- errors in both units and not one being unequal to the other.

bodydouble

I was one of the fortunate ones who got awarded a buyback under CAMVAP. I'm glad you mentioned CAMVAP to aming because it is certainly an excellent recourse for disgruntled consumers.

yrmac

Congratulations! You are one of the lucky few. There was an excellent article in the Toronto Star three weeks ago regarding cases that went to CAMVAP and they mentioned that there were only eight or ten buybacks since this program started a few years ago. Also, reasons for getting the buyback usually bordered on vehicles being unsafe to use and/or roadworthiness. Just curious, how did you get your buyback and was it a Honda :->?

mdx_kid

Thanks guys for all the input.

There is no lemon law in Alberta or Canada but I called Honda Canada and told them about the problem. They as usual say that this is an isolated problem and they are going to talk to the service guys about this and told me that it won't be long as a week but a couple of days and the dealer mentioned a week so that they can fix the problem for sure.

The aspect that worries me that the service manager told me that they have to check the wiring on the car and the way he mentioned it sounded that they will have to rip out the dashboard and physically get to the wires to check the point where they are losing the signal and with new accord they have the new wiring technology which helps them reduce the number of wires by sending multiple signals on one wire. My past experience with wiring problems with cars hasn't been favorable and that has me worried as to what will be the outcome in the long run and after spending this money u don't expect these things.

Another problem creeped up yesterday when I took it on the highway for the first time the car seems bouncy at all speeds above 90. This wasn't the case when we test drove it. At first I thought I am being paranoid about this and so I asked my wife to take the car to work today without telling her anything about my experience and first thing After getting to her office she does is to call me to ask what's wrong with the car. She felt the same way. Is it due to tires or something wrong with suspensions?

paulo3

I have driven on some of those Ontario roads and any suspension can take a beating. Trucks have been seen bouncing down the roads between Welland and Ft. Erie.

yrmac

Paulo, mdx_kid is from Alberta. MDX, maybe your tires are out of balance. Sometimes this situation can happen if you have some ice or snow sticking on your wheels. My suggestion is to power spray wash your wheels and check again if you experience this bouncy ride.

bodydouble

I applied for arbitration under CAMVAP. Presented my case in front of an arbitrator along with the regional rep from Honda and the service manager from the dealer. The whole process from application to decision took less than 2 months with no cost to me other than my time. The car was a 2000 Prelude SH. I don't know if you're familiar with Preludes but the SH had the ATTS system. Well, on mine the Check Engine light and the ATTS light on the dash would come on indicating the ATTS has been disabled. I took it in to the dealer about 6 times. They tried everything including changing the ECU and to no avail. Those lights would come back on everytime after a day or so. Even the service manager admitted at the arbitration hearing he had no idea what was wrong. I think that was the clincher in my getting the buyback award. The problem started when the car had under 2000 km. When they bought it back it had 5500 km. On hindsight I suspect what caused the whole mess was an aftermarket siren that the dealer installed onto the alarm system. This brings up the point mdx_kid alluded to about the wiring system. All the late model Hondas use what they called the multiplex wiring where one wire may control several functions. And if you add accessories to the system and you make the wrong connection. It can cause havoc with the electrical system. I think the siren somehow screwed up the electrical system which in turn caused the ATTS system to shut down as a precaution.

bodydouble

One bit of advice: Since at this time you don't know the outcome of your case. You of course hope they can fix it quickly but there is always a chance it may end up in arbitration. Make sure you document everything. Log all the service visits. Insist on getting copies of all service invoices and write-ups even though the repair is under warranty. Even write down verbal comments on the repair from the service rep or mechanic. If it goes to arbitration, if you have a detailed, precise account of what has taken place, it would really help your case. Honda will fight like hell (especially if you're after a buyback or a new car). And they will paint the case in a different colour if you don't have the facts to counter them. In my case, I even found that they produced service invoices on which the work description had been changed to help their case. Don't assume that they won't try some sleazy trick. Good luck.

aming

Excellent points there bodydouble.

By the way, Mdx_kid isn't doing 90 MPH ... just 90 Kph ...approx 50-55 Mph.

Have you checked the tire pressures MDX_kid? If you have, get them to rotate your tires front to back.

Keep us posted.

Cheers..

sdw6

Hi everyone

I'm new to this, but maybe some of you can give me some advice. I have an '02 Accord LX 5-speed (purchased in July). It has 3000 miles on it.

After the engine has been running for a few minutes it will sometimes stall. I'll be coasting to a stop, usually in 3rd or 4th gear. If the engine revs are below 1500 and I hit the clutch, the engine will instantly stall.

Doesn't seem to happen when the car is fully warmed up.

Unfortunately it doesn't do it on a consistent basis. It's happened about 5 times in the past month. I brought it to the dealer who kept it for 2 days but was "unable to duplicate" the problem. Rather frustrating!

Any advice on what my next step should be?

Thanks

ravyn

that sounds odd.. i've got an '02 accord EX 5speed with 2800 miles and haven't once stalled b/c of anything other than my own ineptitude at learning stick.

i wonder what could be causing that. do you always coast? or do you downshift? i wonder if downshifting might help a little.

hopefully our resident tech guys can help you out with this one...

dc_sports_rule

Since day one, I have heard road noise in my Accord. Has anyone tried to insulate critical areas to tone down the tire noise? I heard stereo shops can insulate critical areas of a car. Also test drove a 2003 Accord and road noise is minimal as compared to the 5th and 6th generation Accords.

anonymousposts

My Accords tended to be louder over some types of concrete .. usually it wasn't significant enough to bother me. Is it too loud or do you just dislike roadnoise of any type?

tblazer503

my recommendation would be to downshift early especially when the engine is trying to warm up. While the engine is warming up I usually let it sit one gear lower than the norm just to help it along. What is probably happening most likely is that while you are coasting to that stop, you are dropping rpm's and if you are dropping below 1krpm, it is pretty likely that you are stalling the engine. I would watch and try to see what rpm it does stall at. Thats the hard part of manuals, though... you can force the engine into a situation where the momentum of the car and the tranny/clutch is the only thing keeping the engine running... you will know if you try to push the gas, because the engine will start shuddering. My '03 2.4l 5MT does this right around 1100rpm's. anything below that and I fear it will stall, but then you can always drop it to a lower gear and let the clutch out slowly...

tblazer503

want to rev it slightly(to 2k) when its still warming up and see if it stalls... if it does, there may be a problem with either the idle control solenoid(unlikely if its fine after it warms up) or the cold idle control solenoid... don't know the technical names, basically catches manually manipulates the throttle body when the car is idling.

vmumford1

A young man was a passenger in a Honda Acura 98, 3.0 CL, when the ignition/engine failed midstream causing a collision. He has very serious brain injuries. Is there anyone out there that has had any information re: engine and ignition difficulty and/or failure in this make and model? If so, please advise in this forum or at Staskus@usa.net. Thanks!

lancerfixer

"midstream?"

Was he trying to ford a river? No wonder the ignition failed.

anonymousposts

lol lancer

tblazer503

failing cause an accident? I don't get it. The only way I can see it is IF he was making a sharp turn at the time. What is the main cause for the engine failure? If you are going to try and blame Honda/Acura, what about the last 4-5 years? Is it poor maintenance, or some aftermarket equiptment or other wiring that may have caused the failure? ie short circuit.

I just have a hard time seeing an ignition fail and then causing an accident after 4-5 years.

Oh, I have not heard of any problems w/ the ignition systems.

anonymousposts

and wish mumford good luck in his/her frivolous lawsuit.

anselmo1

The tire comments have made me wonder what is the best overall tire for the Honda Accord? I don't mean the tires that The Tire Rack representative receives a commission on when he pushes a particular brand to the consumer.

What are your experiences regarding the best all around tires for your Honda Accord? Performance, being quiet as well being good in rain and snow?

bburton1

Well that depends upon your driving style and how much time you spend in your car. Some people think the Michelin MXV4 "energy" tires are just fine-they don't push them. Those who do push them have a different experience. For the way I drive, they have very poor wet/snow traction and howl like hell on dry pavement when cornering hard. When they do break loose-somebody explained this one-apparently the tread looses contact with the road and it is like you are on glare ice. Saw a review of the 03 accords in one of the car mags and one of the drivers said the MXV4's stuck to everything but the road. I can relate to that having experienced 4 wheel slides at just moderate speed on an exit ramp and another spin in snow. No more of those for me.

So if you drive very cautiously-the MXV4's would probably work-oh they are a bit noisy also.

Replaced MXV4's on my accord with Michelin X-One's and what a difference-particularly in wet/snow traction. The local chain tire store guys-all are working their way thru college referred me to the X-One's. Now they say the Bridgestone Turanza is a better tire and costs less. Only concerns about the BS T's are, will they remain in balance like my X'One's have-have 74K on them on still in perfect balalnce and will they last as long. Probably not on the latter.

Oh the guys at the tire store said the MXV4+ tires are better but not up to either X-One's or BS T's.

There are probably umpteen dozen better tires when measured in some other set of criteria but my choice will be between x'one and BS t's.

jxt

I am planning to buy an 03 Accord after driving Acura's since 88 (have a total of 8 Acuras in the immediate family). I recall reading a post here about Accord underbody does not have undercoating. I went and looked at the Honda dealership nearby yesterday. Of all 03 Accords, only the EXs made in Japan (JHxxx VIN) were fully undercoated just like all of my Acura's. LX's and DX's which were made here or Canada either have very spotty undercoating (30%) or no undercoating at all, just bare body primer. Went home and looked at my 2001 Odyssey, same story, very spotty undercoating (about 20%). I wonder if this is just lack of quality control at the factory or it's Honda's way to lower production cost and if so, how it would affect the rust warranty.

I don't apologize for being picky, just my belief of buying the best car for the money and doing my part to take good care of the car and driving it for a long time. I don't think that there is a perfectly designed and manufactured vehicle out there but Honda tends to have more consistent higher quality. But I admit that the undercoating issue bother me somewhat since I live in the Northeast where there is plenty of snow and salt on the road in the winter.

fritz1224

I can attest to two of the four criteria you mentioned. The Turanza LS V's are quiet(at least compared to the Potenza 950's I first tried) and they are good in wet. As for performance, I don't drive aggressively but they do what I expect them to(smooth riding over most road imperfections). Snow, haven't had any yet, so I can't say.
One caveat: the warranty on them may not be valid if you don't go with the speed rating that's listed on the placard in the door jamb.
I've only put about 800 miles on them so far, so my observations are limited.
Oh, and I forgot to mention they are pretty expensive for having only a 40k treadwear warranty. The H has a 50k which you can use if your Accord is not a v6.

rbruehl

When I had my Accord, the first thing I did was take the car to Ziebart and have the car undercoated. My former Accord had very little undercoating which bothered me also since I live in the northeast. You are right, there was just metal. (By the way, my Solara is fully undercoated by Toyota).

The undercoating issue is critical in the northeast. Honda probably only undercoats in and around the tire wells.

anonymousposts

The most important thing is that you can always add undercoating if you feel the amount of undercoating at the time of purchase is inadequate. The Accord is a great value and spending a couple hundred extra dollars shouldn't be that big of a deal if you plan to keep the car for a while.

paulo3

I once took a new car to Ziebart to have it rustproofed back in the early 1990's. Paid around $279.95 for what they called the Premier treatment process. The snag is you have to take the car back each year for the annual re spray at $49.95 to keep the warranty in effect.

Most cars have a five year rust through warranty.
In the northeast, you will see the first signs of rust in the 6th year. You really have to weigh the options and ask yourself if it is really worth it.

Consumer Reports recommends not to rust proof vehicles. Ziebart also, doesn't have the best reputation in the world either. Remember when all AMC cars were rust proofed at the factory by Ziebart in the early 1980's? Those cars by 1985 were riddled with rust so make your own conclusions!

Also have seen those oil spray rustproofing places where I live. You pay $99.95 for the first spray and then $69.95 each year afterward.
The problem is your car drips oil for around two weeks all over your driveway. You have to wonder how well it adheres to the metal if it drips so much.

My conclusion is maybe just have the car undercoated once and take your chances.

tntitan

#1919 mentioned soundproofing to quieten road noise. I put an aftermarket sound system in my 2000 Accord SE and plan to install "dynamat" in the floor (best place to quieten road noise $130 bucks installed at Best Buy) and in the front doors and trunk. All you need is a glue gun to install yourself if you can handle working around the wiring and so forth. I am having it done as a Christmas gift and can report on the impact it has sometime in January.

Tires - I also hate the MXV4's. Mine have 36K and will go at least another 5K before I get to the wear bars but I hate the wet weather traction. I have narrowed it down to the Xones, Turanzas, and the Dunlop Sport A2s. I am going with the Dunlops because they just appear to be superior for traction and road noise (added bonus of being cheaper). I don't want to get them at TireRack because I want to make sure I get 4 "good" tires and not just whatever they send me. I can get 4 "installed and out the door" for $370 at two locations within 0.5 miles of my office and plan to do that next month.

isellhondas

I've been following this tire discussion with interest.

My 99 EX V-6 coupe has the original MXV4's on it. The car has 46,000 miles and the tires look like I could easilly go another 10K before getting to the wear bars.

I live in the Seattle area where we get lots of rain and some snow. I'm not an agressive driver but I'll take off ramps at 10 MPH or more more than the posted speed. I don't drive like an idiot (anymore)but I'm not timid either.

I have never spun out or gone into a four wheel slide. I don't find them to be noisy.

Still, I'll probably replace them in the next few thousand miles...I don't push it with tires.

And I think you guys have sold me on the X-Ones or the Turanzas.

It'll be interesting to see if I can tell a difference!

mdx_kid

There is no undercoat on Acura either. I got my MDX and got the undercoat done from Zeibart and I will have to take it back to them once a yhear to get it checked for any repairs fr undercoat and that's free (no additional cost).

bodydouble

But no more. I spoke to the Western rep for Honda some time ago and he candidly admitted that even he would not buy the undercoat treatment. That tar-like substance they spray on is also a helluva mess. It doesn't do anything in terms of sound insolation and I've heard it could actually potentially damage some of the underbody components and wiring.

rtbledsoe

#1923, My new 2003 Accord EX-V6 did something similar yesterday. The car lost almost all of its power suddenly. I pulled over and stopped in a convenience store parking lot. When I re-started the problem went away.

Same thing happened again suddenly several hours later, but this time it did not go away.

Dealer gave me a temporary courtesy car. If I had been on the freeway I believe this could easily have been a catastrophe.

paulo3

Like I mentioned, Consumer Reports does not recommend undercoating on any new vehicle of any type. Ziebart's reputation is less than stellar and has numerous complaints lodged against them at the Better Business Bureau in my area of the country.

Ziebart drills holes in many locations when they apply their total rustproofing package. The first area that rusts is the area around the hole where the plastic plug is inserted. I speak from experience since I had the process done on one of the former new cars I purchased in 1992.

Even worse than the tar substance Ziebart utilizes is the oil based rustproofing. The oil drips for weeks off the under carriage of your car and you have to wonder what kind of protection it leaves on your car.

A quick thought on tires---Bridgestone tires on the most part have nothing more than a 50K tread life warranty. The Michelin X-Ones have an 80K warranty which is the best in the industry. Plus, Bridgestone is the parent company of Firestone which should also make you wonder about their quality control procedures.

bburton1

Had Zbart undercoat an 80 accord. Every place they drilled a hole in the door sills - big rust spot. They put so much undercoat in one of the rear doors the window would not work-fixed it myself rather than let one of their min wage guys destroy my car. Kept the car for many years-the undercoating seperated from the floor pan thus holding salt next to the pan. Replaced my front fenders with aftermarket fenders-put rustoleum paint on over the undercoat and then sprayed on 3M's undercoat product-not one bit of rust.

Now have a 97 honda accord-drive it in snow country-have had it in lots of salt-no rust issues under the car with the exception of a few bolts/nuts are rusty.

I would not have a new honda "rustproofed" cause I think u will do more harm than good.

Oh here is a good one-saw a guy pulled off to the side in mpls one day-stopped and his honda was badly overheated-spouting water and stinking-he said he just bought the car from a dealer-looked under the hood and guess what-the undercoating guy had completely filled the radiator with undercoating. Told the guy his engine was toast-get the money back cause his head was probably warped and a "dealer fix" would not work.

be careful out there.

lugwrench

Simply put, don't consider any rust proofing on your car. Ziebart is absolutely the worst place you can go to for anything relating to your car.

I personally know a guy who took his new Ford F-150 for a bedliner and tonneau cover. When he went to pick up his truck, he noticed that they also put in a sunroof that he didn't order or authorize. The manager/owner at Ziebart told him, "it was our mistake and the sunroof is yours for free." The problem is that my friend didn't want a sunroof on his pickup. He ended up going to court and Ziebart had to buy him a new truck!

The location where he took his truck had so many customer complaints that they closed down. If you have to rust proof your car, do it yourself and have someone do it that knows what they are doing!

dc_sports_rule

Michelin x-ones over anything that Bridgestone makes.

No way would I let Ziebart touch anything on my Accord. I wouldn't even let them install an air freshner in my car!

bburton1

Have you any personal experience with BS Turanza tires-now have X-One's and really like them but have been told the BS Turanza is better.

mike1qaz

Just recently had Turanza LS-H put on the front of my sedan. The MXV4+s on the front were done at 81K, but the rears appear to have 8-10k left in them. I have only put 600 miles on them so far, but they do seem to be quieter on concrete and poor surfaces. No rain yet, so I can't speak to wet traction.

I bought mine from a local dealer. Tirerack would have only saved me $8/tire, so I decided to get the lifetime rotation that comes from the local shop with the purchase.

The price was so close because Bridgestone had sent a coupon in the mail for 15% off any of their tires. And Tirerack would have shipped from Shreveport, so I would have had to pay in-state taxes.

The MXV4+s were good interstate cruising tires but, as has been stated repeatedly by others, they were a little noisy on concrete and wet traction was not great.

I hope to improve those two areas with the Turanzas and also to match the mileage and smoothness of the Michelins. Only time will tell.

yrmac

My Toyota Camry has an underbody that is fully undercoated, and I don't understand why undercoating is such a "bad" idea for some people here. Maybe the factory- applied undercoat is not the same as the aftermarket ones, however as anything else it is usually "buyer beware" when you apply these undercoats. For what my bodyshop told me, there are three types of undercoating, the lousy ones are the tar-like paints that they use for the house roof, better ones are called rockerpanel coats, and the best ones are the so-called rubberized undercoating.

zbx

Will putting a seat cover (the ones that wrap around the back of the seat) interfere with the operation of the side air bags? My 2002 Accord V6 SE has airbags built into the front seats.

Thanks

lancerfixer

Yes, unless you find ones with cutouts for the airbags.

qgu

Modern cars use galvanized steel which does not get rusted easily. Aftermarket rustproof creates airpockets which holds moisture. And the moisture causes rust. My 97 Nissan Quest is already rusted even with so called total rustproof applied by my dealer. So do not waste your money.

dc_sports_rule

I currently have X-Ones on my Accord. When I bought the tires, I checked out the Bridgestone Turanza also. The tire store where I purchased my tires carries all the major brands.

The salesman told me that the X-Ones are the best tires made and are far superior to the Turanza. The X-Ones are better in the rain and snow than the Turanza and have a better warranty.

The salesman told me that the X-Ones have the best tire warranty in the industry. Compare warranties at:

http://www.tirerack.com