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Comments
1.) Honda engineering is great...their fit and finish workmanship is poor. Esp. true if your car is built in Ohio. I'm as patriotic as the next guy, but US auto workers still suck compare to Japanese.
2.) You will have lots of rattles, squeaks, and other things which are problematic. Honda service will gladly fix, but you'll be bringing your car in often to get fixed. You may want to spend a little more for an Acura - at least they give you a loaner car, which limits the disruption on your life.
3.) Problem includes:
- Bad paint jobs - there are defective paint shoots being done at the factory. Honda is covering these up by just offering to repaint the cars, which is not a good solution.
- Squeaks rattles, etc. Lots. Sunroof one is there, as is the window/door/roof ones, which turns out to be loose wires for the power mirrors (get it checked). Missing felt trim in center console leads to squeaks. Other squeaks, etc.
- Annoying underbody rattles that can't seems to be resolved.
- Defective fuel pump regulators which Honda is covering up (engine cranks but won't start - very intermittent).
Other than that, the car is great. :-)
I know I sound like a big complainer, but this was my first new car, and I bought the top of the line (EX-L, V6 with Navi). I expected a lot better for the price. (even though, for the price, this is the best value out there).
I have the extended warranty, so I'm not so much concerned about getting things fixed as I am the time it will take.
My guess is that 2004 will be much better.
Again, it's a great vehicle, just don't expect perfection.
But don't assume that every owner is going to encounter these issues. I also have a 2003 EX V6 (no Navi). The worksmanship and fit and finish are flawless. No paint problems. No starter problems. No rattles or squeaks. (Knock on wood, or plood, as the case may be...
So it isn't a given that everyone will encounter the same problems as you have.
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/releases/summary.asp?StudyID=736&a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;CatID=1
And they say the that Honda is at 128 problems per 100. If any auto maker had 88 per 1000 they would be overjoyed.
http://www.jdpa.com/studies_jdpower/pressrelease.asp?StudyID=736&- amp;- amp;- amp;CatID=1
Notice in the text they did come up with a trend that shows North American built Accords are less well built that Japanese ones though.
Another pleasing trend. This forum started over 2 years ago and at least 800,000 Accords ago and yet it only has 2467 posts to date. Not a bad showing.
#1 of 2467 Honda Accord Quality Control Problems? by anselmo1 United States of America May 20, 2001 (5:17 pm)
One more link that questions the relationship between initial quality and long term reliability.
http://www.autooninfo.info/NAEd200305JDPInitialSurvey.htm
Think about it, in 1990 an Accord EX stickered for $16595. Today you can get a 2003 Accord EX automatic for $22,000. Sure that's $5000 less but in an Accord EX now you get LED gauges, keyless entry, climate control, steering wheel audio controls, side airbags, i-VTEC, 16" wheels/tires, 6-disc changer, ABS with EBD, tilt/telescopic wheel, auto-off lights, 40 more HP, 5-speed automatic transmission, 5-star safety, etc. Next year you can add satellite radio to the list of standard equipment for the Accord EX. Adjust for inflation and you are probably paying about the same and getting alot more options.
Are Honda and Toyota perfect? No, but they are more perfect that most.
http://www.autooninfo.info/RelGrExStandardsMotVeh.htm
Those STATS are only calculated to the model year 2000. It would be very interesting to see what the ratings would be for auto years 2001, 2002, and 2003.
Initial quality numbers are easily forgotten but the long term numbers mean the most. Not many cars compete with Honda and Toyota there.
Your top manufacturing plants are always in Japan with the exception of the Toyota plant in Louisville, KY. JD Powers has them listed in their site.
Does anybody know who I should contact at Honda to vent my frustrations? I'm usually pretty laid back but this is a JOKE. I'm really really mad. How does a car leave the factory and end up in my driveway with a bad freakin power steering rack and how can Honda not have the parts readily available?
I regret buying this Honda, my first. As far as I'm concerned they are WAY over rated. I don't envision ever buying another one and wish I could get out of this one. i havn't even made the 1st payment yet.
thanks for listening!
I feel like such an IDIOT for selling my Subaru and buying this Honda. I actually still own 1 subaru, an outback, 80000 miles and nothing but routine maintenance. Knock on wood.
Once it is repaired, give the car a chance before you write it off as "not a Subaru". Parts are sometimes defective. It happens, even as brand-new. No one has a perfect record in shipping defect-free cars.
I know it must be an issue of the supply chain for parts. If that's the case Honda needs to do some work in that area. Every part on their cars should be readily available if needed. Even if they do need to get them from the factory. This car has been in production for over a year. It shouldn't be that hard to find a part that happens to be on every other 2003 Accord that is made.
I work for a company that builds and sells industrial machinery. If we gave answers like "I don't know" to our customers we'd probably be out of business. If we don't have a part that a customer needs we make it, immediately, and usually have it to them within 48 hours.
I even asked Honda customer service for a contact name of someone who would have an answer and of course they couldn't give one to me. I don't think i'm over reacting. We're talking 500 miles, not 5000 or 10000. Hell I didn't really even have an issue with the repair to begin with, i know stuff happens. I was first told the repair would take 2 days max. Then today i'm told they don't know when they'll be able to repair my car cuz they don't know when they'll be able to find the parts. Over reacting, please. Its not a Studebaker, it's a Honda Accord. How many are made every day? Honda can't spare a steering rack for a car that's already been sold with a defective one?
Hey, nothing personal, i'm just really mad about this and can't talk to anybody of any importance at wonderful Honda about it.
Request that the VP return your call. Settle for nothing less.
Heck even Lexus owners have problems. Strangely they don't usually get quite as upset over small things though. Must be the loaners.
Again, I have no problem with the dealer. It's Honda that I'm upset with and their inability to provide parts(immediately) for a car that is currently in production. I'm sorry but that just blows my mind. According to the dealer it was their Honda parts supplier(s) that told them that they didn't know when the parts would be available.
I deal with scenarios like this everyday, with machinery much more complicated than a car. I can honestly say I've never told a customer I didn't know when we could get their machinery working again. It's unacceptable in my industry and it should be in Honda's. To me it sounds very arrogant on Honda's part to tell a customer they don't know when their brand new car will be repaired. They should atleast tell me that they'll locate the part as fast as possible and have one made if needed. But they didn't I was just told "I don't know and someone will contact you in 5-7 days".
My '02 Chevy Trailblazer had a bad map/domelight above the rear pass door. it was sticking and would either stick on or off... took 8 weeks to get a new one in. My rear gasket(which there was a recall on later) took 5 weeks to come in.
One of the most upfront guys at chevy gave me the most reasonable answer I would expect.
Many of these parts are brand new and the factory is still ramping up production. Since this is a "custom" part for this vehicle there is no "overstock" and the part has to be physically ordered. It is frustrating, but from a business standpoint, you don't expect in the first year of production for parts to go bad because you have trust in your vendors quality, etc.
I have to say that the Subaru's are great cars, but, subaru does not match their engine well to the car(by competitor standards anyway...) and they tend to be a bit pricy.
Honda isn't giving you the customer service you would expect from a new car! Personally, I would talk to the owner of the dealership and see what can be done. Personally, I would demand a new vehicle and would get a lawyer involved.
That's what the warranty is for. The provided a loaner for you to drive until they can fix your car. They are already going above and beyond. What would a lawyer do. I work in collections and the funniest thing someone can say is that they are calling a lawyer. If the rack failed twice then that may be a problem but I don't see the problem. His problem was one of the 123 out of 100 cars with problem in the first 90 days. Just like the guy who needed a new short block. the fact that they DON'T have ready access to the part shows that:
1. So many are breaking that they can't keep em in stock.
2. So few are breaking they aren't even in the pipeline yet.
Take your pick.
Just got off the phone with my dealers service manager. Earlier I called the service writer I've been working with, after hearing another one of the dealers radio ads proclaiming how great their service is. I called him and basically said if their service is as great as they claim then they'll find a way to repair my car by the end of the week, Friday or Saturday. I told him that he has a car thats already been sold(only a couple weeks ago) that is need of a steering rack. He has about 100 other Accords that haven't been sold yet, with steering racks. I said if it entails taking a rack from an unsold car to fix mine then so be it. I told him if my car had 10k or 12k miles on it then I wouldn't expect this of them, I would have gotten some use out of it. My car has 500 miles, it was deliverd with 176 miles. I basically got NO use out of the car at all and they sold me the car WITH the bad rack. I also mentioned that I was considering buying a PILOT in the next 6-12 months(the truth) and that there are 3 other honda dealers in the area.
About a half-hour later the service dept. manager called me back and assured me that my car would be repaired by the end of the week. He didn't give me the details and I don't really care. I just want my brand new car fixed, which happened to also be an anniversary gift for my wife.
I spoke to the people at the dealer in a calm, repspectable manner, as I try not to be a prick. this situation was just totally unacceptable to me. We'll see how it pans out and when we actually get to drive our new car again.
you should check out the forums for the Trailblazer/Envoy/Bravada for '02... that great I6 in the first year had so many problems. Some people's engines threw a rod in the first 1000 miles... or the sleeves became dislodged... now those are factory defects... problems happen, and I think that dragg handled it well, and was taken care of.
No need to get angry around here... we are all just trying to help each other.
The car was delivered with 176 miles cuz it was a dealer trade, they got it from 150 miles away. We wanted a white one and believe it or not they had a hard time finding one. Seems like they're all silver, tan, or black around here. Still haven't seen another white one on the road(2003 sedan) as of yet. If only I had driven the car prior to signing the papers. I think I would have caught the problem and this probably could have all been avoided. Next time i'll drive prior to delivery. I just never thought I'd have a problem like this(never have in the past).
Thanks for your feedback everyone! Good luck with all your automotive endeavors.
I'm sorry that your first Honda experience has been such a negative one. I've had 3 Accords so far and they've all been very reliable and easy to maintain cars. I never give it a second thought that my car will start every day and run flawlessly for many, many years. Just do the oil and factory recommended maintenance on time and Hondas will easily run for well over 100K miles (or more).
Please post back once all of this is resolved and good luck to you.
176 miles is a rediculous amount on a new car. That is a used car.
As for the steering rack, let's face it.
That car was in an accident, and they fixed it up so it didn't look bad.
In 30 years of doing autobody and auto repair, I've never seen a bad rack on a new car, but have seen them caused by accidents.
Swap the car immediately. Tell them you are going to the county and state legal offices, and filing a complaint for fraudulent car sales. Call you local TV station. Bring the heat, seriously. They will buckle, if they know what's good for them, and you will have a your car and be done.
Start videotaping all your conversations and tell them why. Again, they will freak, but hey, they tried to pull a fast one, so they pay the price for dishonesty.
I took delivery of it the same day they made the dealer trade. Plus, they added several accessories. I don't think they would have had time to do a major accident repair in the 2 or 3 hours that it was at the dealer. I agreed to the dealer trade, although i didn't know it would be from so far away.
They showed me under the car, where the leaks were. There was no other damage under there. It looked perfect. they said it was probably just faulty seals. If i have another major problem in the near future then I WILL ask for another car.
Anyway the dealer just called to say the repair is done, i'm picking it up 1st thing in the morning. We'll see how it is!!
Only happens on rougher or bumpier roads. what have other's done about this?
so far, this & pulling to the left are my only complaints after 1000 miles
The specialty shop told me that Hondas are noted for this problem.
I've never heard of this but I'm sure it must happen once in awhile. I once had a power steering rack fail in my new Toyota Celica. I think I had around 1000 miles when it happened.
My take, is I agree that they simply should have pulled a rack off another car in stock until a replacement arrived.
Frustrating, to be sure but if I loaner was provided at no charge, I'm surprised the poster is THAT upset.
And, those 177 miles are typical for a car that's been dealer traded. It sure does not make it a "used" car by any means.
I'm curious...is it possible that during a test drive it might have been slammed into a curb or large pothole and this might have caused a seal or o-ring to start to leak...as a result of the impact?
makes a habit out of doing this but that is expected from them, just ask any jetta, bug, or passat owner and they will tell you first hand about it.
Over the years though, I have seen defects that were covered up until Honda finally addressed the issue after numerous customer complaints. What specifically comes to mind is balancer shaft gasket problem and the defective transmissions.
I hope this issue doesn't develop into another quality control problem by Honda or one of its suppliers.
Has anyone heard the noise when you turn the wheel as far as it will go and hold it hard against the lock? I'm told that's the sound of overpressure and one shouldn't hold the wheel hard against the lock. Maybe this car had someone hold it too long at lock and ruin the seal. Maybe this car had a bad rack from the supplier which is the most likely scenario. Whatever the cause, the dealer isn't dodging the issue and is attempting to obtain the needed parts and provide a solution.
I wonder why a percentage of people are so quick to denigrate Honda and say it's unthinkable and inexcusable for the car to go out that way? It would have been preferrable if it had been caught before leaving the factory however the defect may have not been readily visible. They aren't driven far once they come off the line so it wouldn't necessarily show up in that drive. Depending on who drove it on the dealer trade, they may have not been aware of the problem either and just presumed it to be the way that model drives.
I also wonder why so many people seem to begrudge the car dealership and salesman making a profit and a living. I know that part doesn't specifically relate however it does tangentially when people are saying the dealer should just exchange a different new car for this car. The loss on that one deal wouldn't be a make or break thing however it seems some people expect the dealer to take whatever loss is required on every situation based on what is written here. The cumulative effect of that would be to put the dealers all out of business.
Well, that enough.. I'll just wait for those lotto numbers now from any one of our omniscient members.
Here is your answer: "Because car salesman are less credible than lawyers". Each salesman (as well as sales manager) tries to get the most money out of each customer always telling them that they are getting a great deal. Many of the ethics a dealership utilizes are very questionable. (Almost sounds like a lawyer).
By the way, Honda dealerships are on the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to customer satisfaction regarding purchase of a new vehicle.
We have two Honda dealerships in the area that I live in. One has outstanding service and honest reliable salesman. This dealership is family owned and was the first Honda dealership in my area.
The other dealership is part of a huge car selling conglomerate with dealerships all over the northeastern USA. Their salesman are not very ethical and they go through sales managers about once every three months. Their sales force is constantly changing! Their service department takes advantage of women and the elderly and do a lot of "unnecessary" repairs.
I had a friend that took his Accord to one of the Honda free inspection days where you get a free oil change coupon as well as an inspection of your vehicle. He was told he needed new front pads. He took his vehicle to the reputable Honda dealer and was told that there was 75% left on his brake pads! Enough said!
Honda tries to put out quality vehicles but an awful lot depends on the integrity of the dealership where you made your purchase.
Why is it ok for any other profession to make a good profit and nice income but car salesmen are supposed to barely make any money? Would you care to share your profession and what you make at it?
Our store is a family run operation. Everyone is expected to treat the customers fairly and professionally. I understand not all stores are run that way, a fact lugwrench points out in his post, however to categorically include all dealers and all salespeople negatively is not fair or accurate.
I don't plan or expect to buy mansions or yachts however I do expect to be allowed to make a decent living and provide for my family without being denigrated for doing so. Is fair too much to expect?
http://business-times.asia1.com.sg/story/0,4567,75703,00.html
Before you decide to get snippy, let's be clear.
I provide an opinion. I think, based on many years of experience, that Dragg was getting a screw job.
I've seen it many times in the past, and I'm sorry, but car dealers have no one to blame but themselves. Lawyers too.
Can't clean up your own messes or police your own, so the gov't does it for you.
And yes, Honda, like many other automakers, routinely hide problem (and do not proactively try to solve them until thousands of complaints arise, again, usually from the gov't).
I don't begrudge anyone making a living, but I do begrudge not taking car of customers the correct way.
Now I really like my Accord, but that doesn't mean I am going to sing Honda, or any dealer's praises, especially when they are not doing the right thing.
It's your kind of attitude that just reinforces the public perception of car dealers and salesperson. Way to go...I guess you'll need those lotto numbers, as you'll be out of a job in a few months.
I posted last week that I had just bought a new accord ex-l & I thought it was leaking antifreeze. I brought it in today to the dealership as it was also pulling to the right. They balanced my tires which I find odd on a new car & said it's fixed. They also say the alleged leak is just condensation (sp?) from my a/c. I've never had a car leave puddles before. Can this be for real? The puddles are under the front towards the passenger's side.
Thank you in advance
If you're uncertain, check if the fluid has an odor. Anti-freeze has a characteristic sweet smell.
Your posting, unless I am misreading it, was more than an opinion of "I think" or "it appears" or "most likely". It was a flat out negative statement that could be taken as libelous if it had named names. "That car was wrecked and they did their best to cover it up and not disclose it" to paraphrase.
I never said the customer shouldn't have been taken care of properly. I said there could be circumstances that lead to the situation being as it is with no deception or other impropriety on anyone's part.
I treat everyone I deal with the same way and that's the way that's outlined in Mt. 7:12. I may have somewhat overestimated the negativity and animosity in your post and regret whatever percentage that may be however I don't believe any impartial reader could claim there wasn't some validity to my response.
Actually, it's not too hard to imagine: that person would have paid $9000 more for a $22k Accord.
The dealers' "4-box" negotiation method, while an industry practice, simply takes advantage of the unsuspecting.
Is it any wonder consumers are fighting back ?