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Comments
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
1999 Kia Sephia LS 4 Door Sedan
Engine: 4-Cyl. 1.8 Liter
Trans: Automatic
Drive: Front Wheel Drive
Mileage: 73,700
Equipment
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Tilt Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Cassette
Compact Disc
CD Changer/Stacker
Premium Sound
Dual Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Leather
Dual Power Seats
Moon Roof
Rear Spoiler
Alloy Wheels
Trade-In Value $6,390
And I know that leather and power seats aren't options on the Sephia. I'm sorry, but that $11,000 sounds a little far fetched. Wouldn't the dealer actually be losing money on such a deal?
I say we give him time to respond before we condemn him.
If the test drive is inconclusive and more than one car would work for you, then it gets more interesting. The Civic and Protege do have the best long-term reliability records, and the Civic has the highest resale value. But you will be keeping the car for 20 years, so resale value is not a factor here. The Elantra's warranty may be more important here, since you will use all 10 years of it. You could even think about upgrading the warranty to 10-year bumper-to-bumper, since you know you'll be keeping the car that long, and have 10 years of full warranty coverage for around $700 extra up front.
Sounds like gas mileage will not be a big factor for you either, so that lessens the Civic's advantage there. If you like a sharp handling car above everything else, I think you will enjoy the Protege the most. If you like a smoother, more comfortable ride, then the Elantra or maybe the Civic will please you more. They are all pretty equal in interior room.
Cost-wise, the Elantra seems on the surface to have a big advantage, especially if you can snag one of the remaining 2001 GLSes with the $750 rebate. But Mazda is offering some excellent deals on the 2001s, including 0% financing and free alloys and sunroof on the LX 2.0, so if you are going to finance the car and like the Elantra and Protege equally well, the cost difference may not be that much. You probably won't find many 2001 Civics, and I don't think you want one, based on all the complaints I've seen on the Civic forum re the bouncy rear suspension, which has been improved for 2002. Since there isn't a big fiancial incentive to get a 2001 Civic, may as well go for the improved 2002 model.
Another option to consider, if you can wait a few months, is the 2003 Corolla, an all-new design set to debut in the spring. Given Toyota's track record with the Camry, it should be much improved but not cost much more, maybe even less. Also, the ECHO should be a reliable long-term car, low in cost, and if you do mostly city driving it is a nimble little around-town scooter. Might as well have a lot of fun and drive all the small cars, since you won't be shopping again for a new car for 20 years. Have fun, and good hunting!
I also agree that there are discrepancies with Iluv's trade-in value. I don't even think the car costed $11K when new!
-RAVvie4me
Either Iluv is telling us what the dealer gave him in trade PLUS the amount the dealer paid off OR Iluv made a typo.
Perhaps he meant to type that he got $1,000 in trade. ; )
Or maybe the dealer was really, really, really desperate for Iluv's business. ; )
Less Trade-In: $11,000
Less Rebate: $2,500
Final Cost: $8,495 + TTL
Comment: A new Sportage can be had for less than $14k, after rebate and before trade.
Iluv says he got the 4x4 and if he got the 4x4 Limited with automatic and all the options, that particular Sportage has an MSRP of $22,864.
FWIW, the invoice amount is $21,550 and right now you can buy one from Carsdirect.com for $19,102. The website indicates they have a $3,00 rebate. This is for a zip code in Missouri where I live. The price in your zip code may be different.
Point is, I think we need some fresh meat. ; )
If not, there's other boards.
coolguy7, if you will please re-read #761 what I think what you will see is not a smart-aleck comment but a question to participants of this board as to whether they would like to continue discussion on our board topic, and a statement regarding some sources I turn to seek out political commentary and sports news when I want those things. If you were offended in any way by my statement, I apologize.
1. VW Golf 5-door
2. Kia Spectra 5-door
3. Toyota Echo
4. Mazda Protege5
5. Hyundai Accent
Within our low-end range, Spectra is the top ranked, followed by ECHO and Accent.
The main criteria, from the article, is: "City cars must be nimble, economical and fit into small parking spaces. Here are five cars ideally suited to urban use. And they're fun to drive, too!" The URL is:
http://autobuy.about.com/cs/toppicks/a/urban18.htm?terms=Toyota+Echo+Review
Note the favoritism towards hatchbacks, although the ECHO made the list without that feature. I'm a little surprised the Elantra GT didn't place, with its 5-door utility and value compared to the Golf and Protege5.
Note also that the ECHO was ranked highly in another list on the same site: Top 5 Cars for Jockeys. ;-)
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
But don't you think that we do need "fresh meat?"
I used to like Oakland back in the 70s, but am pretty upset that our GM (for the KC Royals) let them end up with Dye and Damon. If Seattle meets Oakland, you have my blessing to encourage Seattle to demolish them.
However, while I think that Seattle has about a good of a chance as any team to get to the World Series, I don't think winning it all will be as easy as Iluv thinks.
We now return you to our regularly scheduled car chat. :-)
With that in mind, what low end car are you looking forward to seeing?
From purely a low end car enthusiast's perspective with no regard to probable quality, I am looking forward to seeing the "new" Kia Spectra. There has been some degree of controversy as to what it is going to look like and this has made me curious.
I am also looking forward to seeing the next generation Hyundai Tiburon. I want to see for myself how close it comes in looks to past Toyota Celicas and Supras.
Final price: $21,300
Less TTL (est. $1,300 - I don't have that info)
Dealer's offer = $20,000
Less rebate: $2,500
Net price: $17,500
Now, Sportages that list for $17,000 can be had for around $14k after rebate (based on Edmund's TMV and local ads). That's about $3500 less than the dealer's price to you. So your effective trade-in price was about $7500. But that's still more than you expected, and as you said, the main thing is that you are happy with the SUV and the deal you got.
Iluv--I hope you're ok.
Now. About cars.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
I think of the three cars, the Protege ES has the most personality, and definitely the best handling. If your wife likes the way it drives, and you do too, it sounds like the right car for you. The ES has been at or near the top of most car mag's reviews of compact cars, so it is generally well-regarded. Mazda, including the Protege, has an excellent long-term reliability record, maybe just a tick under Toyota and Honda but still way above average and definitely better than Hyundai's. Extended warranty? Most don't go past seven years (you can check with your Mazda dealer on duration and cost), and given Mazda's record for reliability and the fact you take great care of your cars (and you must if they last 20 years), it may not be worth it. But if it gives you peace of mind and you have the bucks, go for it.
Question: did you look at/drive the Protege LX 2.0? There's some great deals on that model right now (for '01s), including free alloys and sunroof, and although the handling won't be quite as sharp as the ES it will cost much less.
Question 2: did you drive the Elantra GLS or GT (hatchback)? The GT has a sportier ride than the GLS and lots of features, for less money than the Protege ES. And of course has the ten-year powertrain warranty standard.
by the way, this is aniryu. my interest connection was lost for 12 hours so i had to make a new account.
I have always liked the Proteges and I think it's a compliment to Hyundai that the Elantra is being cross-shopped against a more driver-oriented car like the Pro ES. It's also a (long-overdue) compliment to Mazda that larger numbers of people are FINALLY starting to figure out that the Protege is a top-shelf contender for the Compact Car Crown.
ichem, if you go with the Mazda you will be very happy. IMO, the Pro is a much more satisfying vehicle than the Civic (except for mpgs) and more tossable than the Elantra. Don't worry about long-term reliability. Mazdas are pretty scrappy cars and with proper care they should live as long as Honda and Toyota offerings.
Happy motoring!
As noted in the article, "The extended warranties may be a smart gamble. Hyundai and Kia sales are up 37 percent and 38 percent respectively this year, while industry sales as a whole are down 5.3 percent."
This statement by Ford leads to a couple of conclusions that were touched on by the press (AP and Detroit News):
1. Ford is responding to the perception that the Focus has lower quality than makes like Civic and Corolla by using the same marketing tactic employed successfully by Hyundai and Kia--increasing the warranty coverage.
2. Ford is responding directly to the surging popularity of Korean competitors by matching them (well, almost) in warranty coverage.
Interesting that Hyundai and Korea have enough confidence in their cars to provide full 5-year warranties, while Ford warrants only the engine for 5 years. I tried to find more info about the new warranty, but Ford has no information about it yet on their Web site--which considering the size of their IT budget, is quite strange.
I purchased a 2000 Mazda Protege-
1.) Interior room & comfort-
2.) Value pricing-
3.) Appealing styling-
-Larry
1. Quality now and reliability down the road.
2. Fuel economy.
3. Interior room and comfort.
Put those three together along with my other considerations and you get the Echo.
2.Style,style style
3.Controversial Manufacturer-one that brings out the passion in it's owners and detractors.
Clearly there is only one car meeting this criteria-the one,the only- Daewoo Leganza.The only car with oxen power.
It's hard to narrow it down to 3 because there are several other criteria I used. I used a "pusher/blocker" system for rating cars. Each criterion is either a pusher (not mandatory, but the better a car does, the better I like it) or a blocker (if the car doesn't have this, it's out). So here are 3 blockers from my list:
1. Roomy back seat (enough for 3 growing kids or 2 adults in comfort). This one eliminated all but the Civic, ECHO, Focus, Elantra, Neon, Protege, and Sephia.
2. Quality (solid feel, quality materials, looks and feels like a more expensive car). This one eliminated the Focus, Neon, and Sephia.
3. Comfort (comfortable seats, especially the driver's seat; smooth, quiet ride; ergonomics; convenience features). This one eliminated the Civic, ECHO, and Protege. (Actually the ECHO had been more or less eliminated earlier by a fourth blocker: styling that I can live with for many years.)
I bought the Elantra GLS.
Another reason for not answering it is that I know who is asking the question, and I can imagine how this information is going to be used. If the answers do not suit his argument, he may well put out another survey.