Toyota Highlander Maintenance and Repair

pilot130

Bingo!!
Not quite that simple, but close enough for government work!!

wwest

The magnetic deviation issue only pertains to flying. It was used only as a reference with regards to the Lexus Nav.

My two main problems with the Lexus Nav have to do with, 1, calculating the shortest distance to a point vs the shortest time. If I let it, it would send me up to 100 miles out of my way between two points. Luckily I discovered the flaw early on because the route it calculated as the shortest time I knew with definity that it was not.

If you use this feature you should always crosscheck.

The other most common problem is that if it loses the satelite(s) even briefly then once the satelite is recovered it completely "resets" its immediate past memory. So you can be traveling along under nav guidance on a highway adjacent to I5 and then have the system "reset" and start giving you new directions because it now "thinks" you are on I5.

In other random instances I have had it direct me to the wrong place for a specific address. Most of the time when I realize the error I simply re-enter the destination address, it recalculates correctly and all is well.

But several times, a definite minority, I have had it fail to calculate the correct location 2 and 3 times in a row.

The strange thing is that the wrong location it takes me to is almost always only a few blocks from the correct location.

Generally, as insurance, I try to do a mapquest printout before setting out to an unknown location.

Strange, the last plane we owned was a C-210. Your P210 didn't happen to come out of Portland OR previous ownership, did it?

spencer327

are you saying the dvd map coordinates are fixed in time when it was manufactured, where the GPS signals are constantly updated for magnetic deviation,hence the deviation discrepancy with older DVDs.
I am going to check and see how much the position would be off at my lat/long from the DVD date
interesting !

pilot130

Mine is a P-210, as in pressurized, and I bought it new, imported it into Canada many years ago.

desertguy

So a $2000 NAV system must be checked with mapquest to be sure it is correct? lol I think I'll just stick with mapquest although I've had some really bad courses plotted by it.

spencer327

are you saying the dvd map coordinates are fixed in time when it was manufactured, where the GPS signals are constantly updated for magnetic deviation,hence the deviation discrepancy with older DVDs.
I am going to check and see how much the position would be off at my lat/long from the DVD date
interesting !

wwest

have absolutely no relationship to magnetic directional information, deviation or otherwise.

GPS is based strictly on distances from satelites to known, fixed points on the ground. From there on its strickly a matter of geographic map accuracy in relation to those fixed points. And admittedly that map accuracy is extremely good, typically within a few yards.

Basically the GPS signals are used by your nav system to compute your position in relation to those satelites. From there a map database is used to correlate that information into your geographic position, be it flying, on the ground, or on a boat at sea.

You could probably even use them, the Earth satelites' GPS signals, to locate your position on the earth facing side of the moon provided you had a good moon map.

wwest

I guess technically ours was a T210.

persnicketyme

I've driven 4 '04 and '05 Highlanders. I was able to reproduce the hesitation on all of them. No variation. It is most unlikely, therefore, that this problem (no quotes!) occurs only on some models. Rather this suggests that some drivers are more sensitive to it. The odds are extraordinary that I would get 4 defective units in a row out of a great number of "normal" ones. The "problem" IS a problem.
That said, the hesitation can certainly be reduced (but not eliminated) by pressing more softly on the accelerator and waiting about 1/2-1 second for the transmission to catch up.
I like the car enough that I purchased one, aware of the hesitation problem. I still notice it periodically, but it's such a good car in most other ways that I am willing to put up with it. I can imagine circumstances where this may be a danger to me, but with the awareness I have of the hesitation possibility, I think I'll always be prepared.

wwest

manually shifting into first gear as you come to a stop. If the transmission "follows" the shifter and actually moves into first gear then that manuver just might eliminate the hesitation as you start up again.

Maybe not as a permanent solution but at least as a trial to learn more about the circumstances surrounding the hesitation.

wbay

I share your assessment; some won't notice the hesitation simply because they drive differently than I do. The argument that the problem only occurs on very few cars is weak, since I was able to reproduce the hesitation on the very first '05 I test drove. What are the odds? Feathering the accelerator helps, but when I start to feel like the traffic behind me is catching up too quickly, it's nearly impossible to not stomp on the pedal...isn't that what you do when you need to move quickly? Being aware of the problem is fine and dandy, until that day comes when awareness doesn't help.

wbay

Has anyone experienced a balky hatch latch? I have this intermittent problem with the rear door latch where the hatch doesn't want to close properly, instead slides off to the right slightly and makes a jarring noise. It shuts just fine, but sometimes takes a second try.

landdriver

persnicketyme I agree with your assessment 100% as I believe it accurately sums up the issue. I test drove both an '05 HL and an '05 RX330, and both, as well as my '01 HL, exhibited hesitation in an identical way (speed up to 30 mph, remove foot from accelerator, wait for car to slow to 25 mph, then floor accelerator -- will exhibit ~1 sec hesitation before transmission downshifts a couple of gears (doesn't have anything to do with whether you're making a turn) (is independent of fly-by-wire as the '01 doesn't have it)).

I agree with your theory that it's dependent on the driving habits of the owners; I quickly adapted to it almost without being aware of it, but can imagine that certain drivers may find it unacceptable. It may also depend on the driving patterns prevalent in certain metropolitan areas. Areas where drivers are very aggressive and thus rely on split-second timing in negotiating traffic may be affected by it much more than drivers in more laid-back areas.

(wwest, as both my '01 HL and the '05 RX330 exhibit the problem, I suspect it's present your RX300 as well.)

wwest

is an 01 AWD and I am on record as saying the hesitation syndrome does not exist in it. What it does do is shift into "neutral" (for wont of a more descriptive or correct term) during coastdown and/or just before coming to a full stop.

My suspicion about all of this is as follows.

When the Prius was in design phase they decided to eliminate engine lagging torque during "coastdown" in favor of simulating the same "feel" using the battery charging braking regeneration system. Even today the Prius driver can manually select engine lagging torque or battery recharging.

And then via engineering "cross-polination" someone in the FWD design area realized that the same method, eliminating engine "drag" during coastdown by taking the transmission out of gear would result in improved fuel economy. They may have even realized that a side benefit might be fewer loss of control accidents in adverse roadbed conditions due to engine braking on the front drive and STEARING wheels.

I think we have pretty much confirmed that the hesitation issue only applies to Toyota/Lexus FWD models or AWD with front torque bias.

Now, my 01's gas pedal is directly connected to the engine so if I suddenly go WOT while the transmission is not in gear the only design choice they had was to put the thing in gear as quickly as possible.

Sorta like on my 300HP C4 applying WOT and THEN releasing the clutch. Burned smell from the area of the clutch.

My transmission fluid smells and looks burned at only 38k miles, this for a vehicle that has NO factory recommedation for transmission fluid, has a towing package, external transmission fluid cooler, that has never been used. I am seeing reports of transmission failures for my model years between 60k miles and 100k miles.

Anyone want to guess why my Transmission fluid is burned at 38k miles?

So, someone with e-throttle suddenly goes WOT in the same circumstance. The transmission firmware "talks" to the engine and says "wait" I need to get myself into gear and give the transmission clutches and bands an additional few hundred milliseconds to fully seat".

Seems, if true, a problem that could readily fixed in firmware, right?

NOT!

Before even one was shipped these vehicles were EPA qualified for a specific city/hwy fuel economy. What does the EPA say, or do, if the manufacturer, after the fact, wants to go back and revise the fuel economy adversely?

And possibly even more pertainant, what about the PR issue?

Now, I have heard that the hesitation problem in the 05 RX330 has been fixed, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't I seen a posting wherin someone was asking why the MPG rating of the 05 was poorer than the 04 by only a MPG or so?

scoti1

Found reference to TSB# TC007-03 for transmission hesitation in the Sienna Problems and Solutions discussion. Below is the first mention of it. A later post gives the TSB #.

#956 of 1163 Re: Heywood1 by cybernut04 Aug 30, 2004 (9:01 am)
Reply

Mentioning TSBs when taking your vehicle in for service may fall into the "your mileage may vary" category. I had a problem with our '04 Sienna and a hesitation in the transmission. First dealer I went to, before I completed my first sentence the service manager said "that's normal", so it was an uphill fight from the beginning. I mentioned the TSB partly just to have the guy take the problem seriously - and he said, well if there's a TSB we'll check it out. They did something (but nothing to do with the TSB) and the problem wasn't fixed.

The second dealer started to give me the same "it's normal" speech, but this time I had the shop foreman take it out for a drive with me, and along the way, we talked about the lag I was experiencing. I asked - without ever mentioning the TSB - if Toyota had received other complaints about this lag (yes), and if Toyota ever issued any special instructions to mechanics dealing with these kinds of problems (yes). And that was when HE told me that he would check the TSBs. He did, he told me there was a software patch he could install, he did, and the problem was solved.
Personally, if I have another problem like this, and if I research it and find a TSB, I will go to the dealer armed with that information, but I won't actually say "TSB" - with the first dealer, I don't think it was received well, and it acted against my best interests.

landdriver

Sounds like we're in agreement as there is a delay in shifting, and you go further to theorize why this is so. Whether the delay is due to upshifting from a lower gear or from neutral can be ascertained by observing whether the tach is tracking vehicle speed when the vehicle is coasting down.

The burnt transmission fluid is a useful datum point in these discussions for identifying the root cause of the hesitation issue, as you propose, as both could be related to the rough shifting associated with the transmission. Next time I check my transmission fluid will check for burning to see whether it's endemic of all V6 HLs/RXs, but currently only have 15K miles on mine -- I believe you said it had a brown color?

My understanding is that the people who are experiencing the hesitation on a regular basis are experiencing it when accelerating while coasting, rather than when accelerating from a stop, so your shifting test should be amended to manually downshifting while coasting. If doing so eliminates hesitation then this supports it being able to be resolved via firmware. If not then its still possible its a firmware issue as the firmware may still be delaying downshifting when downshifting manually, as shifting manually is still ultimately controlled by firmware.

(As I haven't been perusing the RX boards for some time, can't remember whether someone submitted a post relating to decreased fuel economy on the '05. Did notice the '05 behaved the same as the '01 and '05 HLs (all V6 AWD), so I question whether it has been fixed in the '05. But you should know better than me as you're monitoring the RX boards.)

I wonder if we could drop-in the chip that has the fix for the Sienna into the HL?

carzzz

After reading some 2004 toyota camry consumer reviews from edmunds, they are also experiencing the problem as well, i test drive a 2004 HL and did feel a slight "hesitation"...
I ask some people on the camry forum from edmunds and they said that the 1/2 to 1 second delay is the "thinking period", which is the time of deciding(calculation) which gear it should shift to!

wwest

There are numerous reports of hesitation starting up from being stopped, most of them seem to have to do with entering a turn at the same time as accelerating form a stop.

Watching the Tach is made difficult since there is a slush pump, torque convertor/multiplier in the middle, and then there is also the torque convertor lockup, or not, to consider.

Additionally the tach is most likely driven by the engine ecu, not a direct "measurement".

bdyment

My 04 V6 All Wheel Drive shifts very similiar to what you have mentioned. There is a stop sign near our house that I approach at least five times a day. When I take off under light throttle the transmission usually has a long delayed shift from first to second. However, sometimes under light throttle, vehicle is warmed up the same, everything else is equal, it will shift quickly and smoothly. Hard of figure why.

 

As far as the hesitation problem is concerned, this has happened once to me, when attempting a pass on a hill under 3/4 throttle. Lasted about 1/2 to one second. Then an abrupt shift to first, should have picked up second in my opinion, and we went flying up the hill.

 

What I usually do now when passing or merging is manually pick up a lower gear--third or second--this has solved any hesitation concerns,

landdriver

you'd think there would be at least something on the car that isn't controlled by the ECM.

edh

what is all the talk about the transmissionlearning your driving habits based on?
is that true or just talk?

If it exists, how does it ever work in a rental car environment or in a family with 4 drivers, or for a company car?

hmurphy

I'm not sure, but the sales guy blabbed on and on about it when I bought the car (it was not a deciding factor). I would rather have known how to initialize the sunroof. (Ok, perhaps my priorities are a bit out of whack.)

wwest

Salesman BS.

Unless it relearns after each restart.

desertguy

No it is not salesman BS. Several cars now have transmissions with fuzzy logic that actually learn the driving style of the primary driver. I had a Lincoln LS ('00) that had a learning trans. Owners had a get together in Irvine CA with the engineers that worked on the car design and testing prior to production. Mark, the transmission God as they called him, went into some detail on the learning of the transmission and how long it took etc. He did not delve into rental cars with many drivers. Occasional second drivers such as a spouse would have no effect.

snakehair

I have had vehicles with adaptive logic transmissions since 2000 (Dodge Grand Caravan). They use the driver's normal inputs to set how long they hold before shifting, etc. Makes driving feel a bit smoother and natural. Try disconnecting battery for 10 minutes or so and see if you don't think the vehicle shifts a little more firmly and sooner.

edh

where is some proof that this feature even exists?
ie like on a Toyota web site or something?

wwest

that the various ECUs, engine and transmission, have the ability to adapt to various driving styles. But I will NEVER believe that the driver unique adaptation survives each shutoff of the engine.

That would make no sense whatsoever.

herzogtum71

But I remember reading a short comment on the sentient transmission in the paperwork after I bought the Highlander. Probably in the owner's manual, but I'm not 100 percent certain.

misstoyota

I have a 2001 Highlander with the check engine light on too:

1st time light came on: Toyota said someone other than Toyota must have changed my oil and left off the hose (which was true)
2nd time light came on: They (Toyota)didn't tell me any reason. Said they cleared the codes and reset my computer.
3rd time it happened we were out of state and took it to a non-Toyota mechanic. He said it
had two error codes pointing to something with the manifold or catylytic (spelling?) converters, oxygen sensor... and for me to take it to Toyota but the Toyota there out of state could not take me in until days later. The mechanic cleared the codes and light has not came on since (after approx. 600 miles driven) and when I got home, Toyota here said they don't trust codes from other places!

cmuniz

The most common cause for the CEL to come on is a loose gas cap. Make sure that it clicks several times when you close it after filling up with gas. The CEL monitors the smog control systems in the vehicle and most problems it detects are not fatal, but merely letting you know that it is not performing to specs. If the dealer is not concerned about it, I would wait till it comes on again before I worry about it.

snakehair

Fuzzy logic is here to stay. Many applications for retaining past inputs from water softener usage to driver's inputs. Battery keeps the data intact, not engine running. Try disconnecting battery until all past data is cleared and see if shift points, hold times in gears, etc. doesn't feel different (gone back to default).

gokstel

I am thinking about purchasing a new 2004 4- cylinder Highlander. I always drive 4 cylinder cars (Toyota Camry and Honda Accords) and love the gas mileage I get. I am just afraid that the Highlander is too heavy to work well with a 4-cylinder.

Also, it appears there is a good rebate of $1,500 to $2,000 on the 2004 models

Thank you.

wwest

firmware/software....

The new gas caps are designed to allow/maintain a slight vacuum in the gas tank. Starting with a full tank as the tank empties a vacuum will form naturally.

An EPA effort to reduce evaporative vapors from escaping the fuel system.

When you remove the cap for filling the vacuum is always lost but as a result of the "fill", the firmware recognizes that's a "normal" loss.

If you open the gas cap but do not fill the tank you may find a CEL a short time later.

typesix

I have a 4 cyl 2004 fwd Highlander and am happy with the engine response. Much better power at low rpms than my 1989 4 cyl Camry. Most others that have posted have stated being happy with the 4 cyl.Only owners of v-6 Highlanders would be unhappy with 4 cyl I get 20-22 mpg city driving. Highway mileage so far at 27.5 mpg based on a late summer trip with AC on for half the trip, and at 65-70 mph.

hmurphy

I think that owners of any newer V6 vehicles might be unhappy with a four-cylinder HL. I say newer because some new four-cylinders are about as peppy as older V6s.

I had a four-cylinder Camry, with which I was perfectly happy for years. Then my husband got a V6 sedan, which prompted me to get a V6 sedan, and it all went downhill (or uphill....fast) from there.

If you've never known anything but a four-cylinder engine, you'll probably be perfectly happy (unless you have heavy loads and lots of hills).

But if you've been with a newer, buttery-smooth V6, you probably can't go back.

mikefm58

Same here with 4 cyls, had them for years and don't miss the 6 cyls. We've got the 4 cyl. HL and love it. Don't notice the difference unless it's fully loaded and the a/c is on. There seems to be more complaints about hesitation with the 6 cyl. also. Good luck.

challenger

My wife and I have a 2001 Highlander -- our first Toyota. We slected it because of Toyota's bullet proof reputation. Bought it new in September 2001. Now have 96,000 miles on it. Until recently we've been very pleased with the car. The car has always been dealer serviced. Here are the problems that have presented themselves since the dealer did the $600 90,000 mile service: check engine light at 91,000 miles - charcoal cannister - $400; heater control at 93,000 miles - $700; now at 96,000 miles engine starts and immediately stalls randomly. This happens cold and warm engine. If I rev the engine for about 30 seconds it will stay running as smooth as always. I'd planned to keep this car another 60 -70,000 miles. Now I'm getting spooked. Is it time to get rid of this thing?

suvtime

I've test driven both the V6 and 4 cylinder highlander. I must say that I preferred the V6 over the 4 cylinder. It's just a little bit too big of rig to move around with the 4, although some people seem to find it all right. You will just have to test drive them and make the call yourself.

To me the 4 cylinder does a fine job for Rav 4 and Honda CR-V's but the Highlander needs the 6.

sportymonk

Have jumped in this forum a dozen or so pages back. Am looking for vehicle for lightweight hauling. Don't need AWD so V-6 FWD is attractive. Pilot seems too big and comes only in AWD. Ody is having teething problems. Sienna has so issues also. (Couldn't believe the post somewhere about the person with a dead battery and the anti theft system locked the key in the ignition when he tried to start it and the tailgate couldn't open to access the battery. Still wonder how he got going again. Also ride sounds too soft.) So am seriously looking at HL. Thought it was a lot smaller than Pilot but not that big a difference.

Question - Other than the infamous sporadic hesitation when turning at 20 - 30 mph (either from stop or moving), and the brake rotors wearing out too quick (one of the main things I hate about my 2001 Impala front AND REAR rotors at 30,000 and now again at about 70,000. Brake pads are fine.) What should I look out for. It sound like there aren't a lot of issues with HL beyond rotors and hesitation. Did I miss anything?

landdriver

sportymonk you're research is quite comprehensive -- those are the two major issues, and, unlike the hesitation problem, the warped rotors problem seems to have "faded away" (or at least no one is talking about it). There were also one or two reports about excessive vibration while idling. I suspect the Highlanders afflicted with these issues are few and I think you'll be vary happy with one!

(Other minor issues reported in the past: mushy brake pedal feel, minor rattles in interior, unbearable air buffeting effect with only rear windows down (common on many other vehicles; crack front windows to eliminate), wheel bearing noise, factory tires perform poorly in snow, optional JBL "premium" sound system doesn't sound all that great in most people's opinions, steering wheel squeaks and windshield popping noise in cold weather, somewhat wimpy air conditioning; possibly some of these issues may have been addressed in more recent models.)

edh

my 04 has acceptable barely A/C.
the problem is the car has no hot water shut off valve to the heater core in the dash so when the Ac is off (and on too) the outside air is heated about 8-10 degrees all the time summer and winter.
Does not sound like much but it hurts in summer. when my warranty is out I will add a shut off valve.
this was a Toyota economy choice- most cars have both an air damper shut off and a water valve shut off.
Try it get a small thermometer, turn AC off, cold control on full cold, say a 60 degree day- ride at 40 MPH - outside air will be heated when it comes out the dash.

03lxv6

Well, that is a Lexus/Toyota quailty:

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04343/423383.stm

edh

How does your Toyota dealer handle repairs that need rework? Is it done outside the Toyota "customer survey" system.

 

Mine seems to cover it up by not writing a new ticket.

i have had a $1000 self paid job go bad , and also a warranty job on another car fail. In both cases I had already had the toyota dealer survey person call and ask about it , when I went back and they reworked both of them (free) they did it on the cuff so to say with no paperwork. Are they trying to hide the rework from Toyota?

What does your dealer do? think Toyota is aware of this? After all it makes Toyota and the dealer look better.

 

Sorta related- my dealers front end guy says their alignment machine is over 25 years old , and is "not good on these new cars".

mit1

does anyone have a highlander with rainguards on the windows.how good are they at allowing you to open windows while it is raining out.also do they cut down on wind noise.do they affect visabilty while driving.i don't see very many highlanders with them.for a set of 4 around 100$.

misstoyota

About message 719; I have a 2001 Highlander with 70k. I know this discussion is old, but does anyone know for sure that air/fuel sensor OR oxygen sensors are covered when the basic warranty is out because of th emmissions?

regalluvr2

Bought our new 2004 Highlander Limited AWD in March and with 12,000 miles on it have had no hesitation problems so far.Its ran great.

gman5

I test drove the V-6, and it felt like a truck as opposed to a car based SUV. We ended up buying the V-4 (2004) and I have been quite happy with it. Yes, going up a steep hill it isn't as fast as the V-6, but overall its so much smoother and I'm happy with my decision.

gman5

On my 2004 V-4 AWD Highlander, when its cold in the morning and I get on the highway (which is less than 1/4 mile from my driveway), the transmission will not shift into overdrive until the car has warmed up some (1-2 miles or so). Anyone else noticed this problem?

desertguy

It is not a problem. It was designed to do just that, mainly for emissions reasons.

kimweigel

Where do buy them for 12? They are $20 at my toyota dealer.