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BMW 3-Series: FAQ
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Yes, AWD will help you "get out of the snow", but I've been driving in Iowa and Wisconsin winters for 20 years and have never needed to get towed or pushed out. They plow the roads pretty well around here. If you go off of the road, AWD probably won't help you anyway, especially on a BMW.
-murray
As for snow tires - the best are Blizzaks, but they wear out after about 2 seasons. And why deal with the hassle of having your wheels changed twice a year?
I have a 2003 325xi on order. It should be here by early - mid December. Can't wait!
changing tires twice per year (takes me a whole half hour) isn't exactly a "hassle"...
it ain't the 0-60 time difference that matters...
-Chris
"Only"? How about you "only" lose $1700 in up front costs. You "only" lose 1-2 mpg regardless of the season. You "only" lose another 1-2" of additional center of gravity height. You "only" lose 300 lbs of additional weight.
All in all, you "only" lose quite a few things that help the 325i drive like a BMW.
As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't consider driving my car without winter tires regardless of which or how many wheels were powered, but then again, we may not get as much snow here in Wisconsin. I just don't understand shelling out $1700 for AWD and not spending $600 for winter tires if the snow is that bad.
Again, get AWD if you want to go, get winter tires if you want to go, stop and turn In other words, get winter tires if you want to avoid accidents and be safer.
-murray
p.s. I'm sure you'll enjoy your new BMW as I enjoy mine. The wait is maddening, isn't it?
-Chris
Anyway, to each his own. For me, the peace of mind justifies the $1700 premium. Maybe I'll see you guys on the side of the road one day and offer you a ride
However, I'm still undecided. I was hoping you guys and gals could help steer me (no pun intended!) toward the right one. And yes, I know the "right one" is really up to me, but still... I just want some more information from you BMW experts.
The simple question is "What do you drive now?" If you are fine with FWD and all seasons, I'm certain you will be better off with a 325i and winter tires.
I've driven several RWD cars in snow: Datsun 510, Mazda RX7 & Miata and a few FWD cars: Ford Probe, Volvo V70 & Mazda 626. The FWD Probe was by far the worst primarily because of the fat tires not unlike my 325i w/SP. I was fine with the three RWD cars and I didn't get winter tires until the last couple years I had the Miata. That car was GREAT in the snow with winter tires, but the small size wouldn't be very good when a monster SUV was sliding towards me :-)
The moral of the story is tires make the biggest difference, not FWD vs. RWD vs. AWD.
Regarding safety & AWD, how does AWD improve safety. The example of the puddle sounds more like the benefit of DSC & traction control. Were you accelerating hard while going around a corner when you went through the puddle? AWD may help in that case. AWD only works when your foot is on the gas.
-murray
I received the Consumer Report yesterday in which it compares the traction of AWD (Audi and Volvo) with all seasons and their FWD counterparts in both all seasons and winter tires. I was astonished by the test result, particular in that the AWD was able to get up to speed (I think to 40 feet) much quicker than even those with snow tires. In stopping on icy surface, the AWD with all seasons only took a marginally longer distance. These findings are quite contrary to those made by others (C&D or Tire Rack). I'll find out for my self this winter how the xiT holds up in New England winter. In the past, winter tires always gave me enough traction to go anywhere in my RWD BMWs. This article is interesting and helpful reading for those making decision between the two.
how did we survive? we were bright enough to realize that conditions were bad and we adjusted our driving accordingly...
as far as the "pull me out of a ditch" comment... ummm... i'd bet my 3er that i see far more awd/4wd drive vehicles off the road than i see 3ers... again, awd helps you "go"... it does not help you "stop"... and the "stop" part is generally how folks end up in accidents or in ditches...
yea, you probably can go through more snow than i can... but guess what? if there's 6 inches of snow on the ground, i stay home... frankly, if there's much more than 6 inches of snow on the ground, you are staying home too, because awd or no awd, you are going to be driving a snow plow at that point...
-Chris
-Paul
In snowy conditions, I’m not concerned about my 0-60 acceleration. This is an indication of the ability for getting up steep inclines, but it’s not that hilly here in Wisconsin.
In stopping on icy surface, the AWD with all seasons only took a marginally longer distance
Was this compared to FWD with winter tires or all seasons or both?
In the past, winter tires always gave me enough traction to go anywhere in my RWD BMWs.
This is the key. If the conditions are terrible, I’ll stay home as should anyone regardless of their vehicle.
It’s my impression that AWD gives you a false sense of security in bad conditions that lures you into driving faster than you should. Witness the SUV flying by you on the highway in a snow storm. I regularly “goose” the gas to test my traction when it’s snowing. With AWD, it takes more torque to sense the loss of traction, but the other aspects of driving are just as treacherous as with RWD/FWD. In other words, AWD will make your car feel more stable and safer when it’s not.
I’ll have to pick up a copy of CR, it sounds like an interesting article.
-murray
I think the false sense of security the drivers of the AWD is the key for many mishaps in winter.
Heck, those SUVs are often driven so recklessly regardless of weather conditions anyway!
now, THAT i agree with...
but i live with it 4 or 5 months a year...
-Chris
Incidentally, I too have driven RWD and FWD cars and have actually never been stuck with either (with or without snow tires). I have also driven AWD and 4WD and found that the acceleration in bad conditions is much more confidence inspiring.
And by the way, in terms of cost, the AWD might cost $1700, but Blizzaks will run you $500-600 and only last 2-3 seasons, whereas the AWD will last the life of the car (you do the math).
For all of the comments like
"how did we survive? we were bright enough to realize that conditions were bad and we adjusted our driving accordingly..."
please remember that although you might be bright enough, the other drivers out there might not be. Also, though, do not be afraid of progress and technology. I mean, you were getting along fine without traction control, too. But now that you have it, you will probably want it on your next car. It's nothing to be ashamed of!
Again, I would have to say to each his own. Check out this link, and whatever you decide on - you're driving a BMW - you'll have no regrets!
I promise this is my last post on this topic!
http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/43847/article.html
In a December article of R&T in which they tested six AWD SUVs including AUDI, BMW, Volvo, Acura, etc. to "search for snow, traction and truth" as it described its goal. All these SUVs were equipped with tires as standard issues (all seasons). The test took place in the Upper Peninsula where snow mobiles are the winter transport, according to the article. All these SUVs did very well in the tests and the article never once mentioned for needing "winter tires". There is also a thorough discussion of the various AWD systems employed in these test cars. You may find it very informative and reassuring for your choice of the xi as they considered the BMW X5 the most favorable among the competition Your 325 xi uses essentially the same AWD system as the X5. Overall it is a very in-depth comparison article.
as far as the additional expense of the snows, i'd still have that with awd, because i'd still get snows for the winter... so much for that position...
awd is going to be little (if any) help against "other drivers"...
you can't take results from a suv comparison and say "it's the same way for cars"... it's not... different tread patterns from the factory, different centers of gravity, etc. etc. etc.
i'm glad people buy the xi... but to buy one and then claim "dominance in the snow" (my phrase, essentially distilling all the comments from the awd folks) isn't correct...
-Chris
who is STILL wondering when folks will figure out that "going" in the bad conditions isn't the real issue, it's "stopping" that is...
I checked on the website and it says that my estimated delivery date is 11/22. Does anyone know how accurate this is?
It seems that everyone thinks they need a big truck with 4WD these days. I just want to point out alternatives.
Please, enjoy your car and don't let my comments get under your skin!
-murray
p.s. In your cost comparison, don't forget using winter tires reduces miles and cost for your summer tires.
e46fanatics.com may have information as well.
-Paul
Wash the wheels. I waxed my rims and the brake dust washes off easily with soapy water and an old mit.
whats the best wax for my bmw?
I use Klasse All-in-One. Goes on and off easy plus it doesn't leave any white residue on black rubber.
-murray
You might be able to get one child seat and 2 small children for a short run but I would not try it for any distance.
I would definately use a different car for a road trip for more than 2 adults and a child. For that matter, I couldn't fit the luggage for another person the way my wife packs!
-murray
Fortunately our 15 month old baby is almost out of a stroller (I find the stroller takes up most of the space in the trunk).
By the way the new "ISOFIX" "Latch" carseats are very easy to take in and out of the car.
At 40k-same thing, both on BMW.
I'm now approaching 60k and sure enough -same thing, now I am out of warranty.
We drive conservatively and spare the brakes cause I hate the brake dust--
I was in the car business for 35 years (domestic)
and never experienced rotor failure at these mileages-- somebody please help and tell me what you did.
Jim B
Transmission has noticable pause when shifting into next higher gear. Seamless shifting it isn't.
Hesitation becomes less noticable when motor/trans. warms up. Is this normal or should I be concerned.
Thank you for your comments.