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Comments
I live in Illinois. Talked to Infiniti of Lisle, say they won't come off that MSRP. I'm not paying that. If anyone lives in Illinois let me know what you paid. I think 1000.00 off is not too much to ask?
1000 off of msrp is not unreasonable at all... I would start at that and if they say no, then just get up and start to walk out, I doubt any dealer would let you go without more negotiation... If they do, they're proceeding from the assumption that they're are more buyers after you, and forgetting that by letting you go, that's more buyers minus one...
One thing that you should consider if you don't get as much off of MSRP as you would like is that the service you get from Infiniti is top flight. I'm on my second scheduled maintenance now and in both cases they said that they could take me the very next morning and that my loaner car would of course be waiting.
With Toyota, I was lucky to get a service appointment in the same week even if I called Monday morning.
Infiniti really went all out also when I told them there was a slight rattling noise in the rear deck area of the interior... they took the whole back area apart and used the insulated foam stuff and no more noises... After I bought my 4Runner, I heard weird clanking noises in the rear suspension (a much more serious observation) and the dealer told me that all new cars have noises and not to worry about it... Ummm... ok... He didn't even consider having it looked at...
Don't fault infiniti too much on the capitalizing a bit on the success of the new vehicle, After all, they did bring a car with excellent performance on the market for a tremendous price. Bargain like the devil but just keep in the back of your mind that even at Full MSRP its a very good package.
Faenor/Dane4
This might be a good negotiating stance/point for those heading to the dealerships. Unless of course, they are tacking on that advertising fee thing to offset price drop
Faenor/Dane4
hansen - I'm not sure if you are making serious comments or just fishing, as I was in an earlier post...
However, in case you ARE serious, then you should try a test drive in the Infiniti again, but without the sales person. When my wife and I drove the car for the first time our views on it were diametrically opposed. She felt the same way about the car that you apparently do. However, I was amazed.
We had driven just about everything else out there in the $30-40K range luxury sport sedan category and a couple outside that (Acura, Audi, BMW, Lexus, Lincoln, Nissan, Toyota, Volkswagen, Volvo) and were about to sign for an Acura when I found out that the G35 was to be released in the next 2-3 days. I used to do road track racing and was underwhelmed by everything we had driven, especially the "best cars" (ie. Audi, BMW).
When we compared notes, my wife asked if we had driven the same car (we had). She went back and test drove it again and was all smiles. The main difference was that she felt restrained with the sales person and the G35 doesn't show its stuff (handling or acceleration) unless you push it HARD. I don't mean that it doesn't perform well, but it handles things with SUCH ease that it isn't until you are well past the limits of the other cars.
The only other car that came close was the 330i sport model. It didn't have the acceleration the G35 did or the braking, but the handling was close. The only thing I will give the BMW the better grade on are the sport seats. They are fantastically comfortable. Unfortunately, equivalently equipped, the 330i sport was about $43K, compared to the $35.5K we spent on the G35.
As for getting deals from BMW, I don't think so. They are MSRP or MSRP+(+) From what I understand, they are backordered just about everywhere in the US and only have a token inventory in most places (in many cases, they only have demo's here in Memphis). I have heard that M-B will move slightly on some models, but not enough to meet the criteria that you are claiming (about matching G35 pricing, for equivalent cars).
Both my wife and I agreed that the Camry (SE and XLE) handled like a dog on rollerskates by comparison. The more my wife and I drive the G35 (and I get to push it), the better it gets and the more fun we have driving it. It drives better, smoother, and quieter at 100+mph than our old Chrysler Sebring did at 55mph.
Scott
As if! Case in point, the current Infiniti G20 has far superior handling to any Camry of any vintage. So am I to believe that the G35 is a colossal step backwards. Are you confusing a softly sprung ride with "maneuverability"? Or are you talking about turning radius or something? Yours seems like a very strange assessment considering what others, including both owners and press, are saying about the G35.
Paul
Proud G35 owner
Okay, first off, this means you didn't push the car. I've driven Camrys hard and they don't handle 270 degree 25 mph on-ramps at even 60 mph. It just can't be done. Try actually driving the car, not riding in it. A camry owner complaining about the handling of a sport sedan is akin to someone who works for tupperware claiming Waterford Crystal feels cheap.
>> Acceleration was fast but not the rocket that I was expecting.<<
Yeah, it only bests the Camry to 60 by 2 seconds. Lets see with an auto it's only off the manual 330i by 0.1 seconds, assuming you hit the shift points with the 330i.
>> This is going to sound bad, but you can get a well equipped C320 Mercedes or a BMW for about the same price or less because those dealers are willing to bargain with price as opposed to the Infiniti dealer, who is making a killing on people buying at MSRP. <<
Not sure where you live but in So Cal the Bimmer demands a premium and only with severe arm twisting and pics of the inventory manager with farm animals can you get a decent discount. MB 320? LOL...um that's not a sport sedan. It doesn't even pretend to be one.
>>Try the new Passat with the 280 hp engine as well.<<
Yeah, 38k for a VW. Good idea, poor handling, lousy reliability, a weak warranty, miserable dealer service and middling acceleration. Good call. I own a VW. I wouldn't wish that hell on any human alive.
>> I have found all of these cars to be far superior to the G35 and I think that after the hype, we will be seeing discounts on the G35 soon, so wait a few months and avoid the pathetic greed of the Infiniti dealers if you really want this car. <<
The G's been out for 4 months and it's clobbering the 3 series sales (with some help from Caddy's horrendously awful and overpriced CTS).
http://photos.yahoo.com/cpranger22
I bought my car at Motorwerks - another good dealer but I don't think they are as good as Fields.
I'd stay away from Lisle and Loeber Motors in Chicago. Just my 2 cents.
LoL! I like that! actually what I would do is just buy the car at MSRP and then sell the pics of the Inventory manager with farm animals on Ebay... That way I can recoup my money and give the photo's maximum exposure!
Faenor/Dane4
Yeah, 38k for a VW. Good idea, poor handling, lousy reliability, a weak warranty, miserable dealer service and middling acceleration. Good call. I own a VW. I wouldn't wish that hell on any human alive. ]]
A couple of points, as an owner of said "38k for a VW":
270 hp.
The price appears to be more negotiable (around Metro Atlanta) than the G35 price -- thus more like $37K w/destination.
VW warranty is now 4 years / 50,000 plus 5 years 60,000 on the powertrain. And I would not have looked seriously at the W8 without these warranties.
Cheers,
- Ray
Who (now that break-in is finished) is certainly enjoying the hell of the "poor handling" and the "middling acceleration" - YE-HA!
Enjoyed your support and comments on your last car, and it's obvious you're monitoring the G35 board for many of the same reasons I am.
The G35 looks very promising, but as yet there's no manual available, and my present ride hasn't crapped out.
Sorry about giving the W8 10 more HP.
And 37k for a VW is still extremely high when I can slide into a cheaper, better performing, more reliable, faster Infiniti G35 with a longer warranty from an industry leader in customer service.
From your last line, it appears that you might be angry at the dealer for "gouging" customers and that this might be influencing your impressions of the car. I'll never understand why the pricing issue gets people so angry,(see the Honda Pilot board for some real ranting on pricing). Its the dealer's right to charge what they think they can get for a vehicle and its your right to either pay the price or go buy something else. Ultimately, market forces will prevail. No reason for anyone to get angry. I bought the G because it met my main criteria: A.) I wanted something more fun to drive than the Camry, B.)I wanted a back seat that could handle 2 adults comfortably (even though I don't have too many occasions where adults ride in my back seat, its important to me that they have enough space and are comfortable when they do.) C. Pricing is within the range of what I wanted to spend for a car. Please come back and post what you ultimately decided on.
I just had to say that in the areas of acceleration and handling, I came from driving a 4runner for 6 years before I got the G... So after the test drive they opened the door and I kind of "poured out" LoL!
Faenor/Dane4
This person could well be 11 years old with an overbite (not that there's anything wrong with that).
I don't even own the car, and he/it had me pissed off.
Hang in there. You've got a fine vehicle.
Curious minds want to know!
Scott
Paul
A big factor for me is that I can get a lot more in a G35, for less money. Granted, performance wise, the Cobra (390 HP) will probably send the G35 running, with its tail tucked, but what else does it have? The answer is, not much.
My only dilemma is whether to get a sedan or a coupe. I guess it depends on how much of a performance difference there is between the two. The coupe will have a little more HP, but I like the idea of having a usable back seat. Since the wheelbase is the same for the coupe and sedan, I would think the coupe would have a fairly comfortable back seat (for a two door car). The only real difference might be that the coupe's backseat will have a more difficult ingress/egress. Does anyone have any opinion or information on this?
The G35 won! The 330 came in 2nd, and the IS 3rd. I briefly read the article...they basically said that the 330 was the best handler (with the G35 being a real close 2nd), but they thought that the G35 did many things well (it ranked in the top 3 in all categories - braking, exceleration, comfort, top speed etc).
They were really impressed with the G's 0-60 times. They said that the 3.5 liter engine performed like a V-8. They clocked the G's 0-60 time at 6.3 which was 0.1 secs off of the BMW's 6.2 (but the BMW they tested was a 5-speed manual).
Anyway, it was a great article...worth picking up.
Oh, the other cars included in the test (this is off the top of my head 'cause I don't have the mag in front of me: Lexus IS, BMW 330, Audi A4, Caddy CTR?, Acura TL-S, Lincoln LS, Jaguar X-type, and one other I think a Saab?)
Seems the G and CTS are stealing customers.
Of course I could be wrong.
Many cars have a device that takes input from the engine computer and modulates (controls speed) of the main fan or auxillary fans that come on when the A/C is activated.
It may be the control module is malfunctioning, driving the fans at max speed when not necessary.
This fan control business was dictated by fuel economy and noise reasons. Also by the fact that total electrical load is getting to the max point on today's cars.
Manufacturers want to go to electric power steering and A/C compressors but that dictates the coming of 42 volt systems starting soon.
Volts X Amps = Watts. Another benefit are wires that are about 60% smaller in guage for the same load so space, weight and cost savings are also pushing the change.
Many cars use "mutiplexing" now in that when you switch on your lights, for example, only a coded signal and not 12v goes to the "light module" that turns on the 12v to the light.
As for fans, the Lincoln LS uses a "hydraulic fan" that has no mechanical connection to the engine and no electric motor. A "fan control module" takes readings from the computer and A/C modes and controls a variable hydraulic valve that modulates the amount of hydraulic pressure from a kind of power steering pump that goes to a hydraulic motor that turns the fan blade. Sounds overly complicated to me.
1. differential on wheels are needed, it's just wheel turning at different rate
2. need LSD to vary the wheel turning ratios so that more power goes to wheels with traction (inside wheels in a turn) and thus limit the slip caused by a fixed differential.
3. thus allow better turning control at higher turning speed and lower turning radius.
Did I get it? Guys (or gals), please feel free to correct and enlighten my ignorance!
Thanks again!
- Paul
Paul
Paul
HiC
The first was a solid rear axle that drove both wheels at the same rate. This was great when going straight because you had maximum traction. However, it was bad when cornering because in a corner one wheel has to travel further than the other. This wheel that has to travel further was also the one with the traction since cornering forces would load on that wheel. This means that the inside (in the corner) wheel would have to spin faster than needed and would actually lose traction, resulting in dangerous oversteer.
The second type was the one you find on most cars today (including the G35). I don't understand the mechanics of it, but, as noted in the movie "My Cousin Vinny", when you are stuck in the mud, "one wheel spins and the other does nothin'." Kind of a 1/2 axle design (I'm sure someone who is a mechanic can detail this better). The advantage of this design is that the inner wheel in a curve spins at the speed it needs to (though it doesn't have any power) and keeps traction on both wheels. The problem with this design is that now all of the power is loaded on only one wheel and in a corner, it is easier to put too much power to that wheel and lose traction. Thank goodness for things like Infiniti's VDC (and equivalent products from other manufacturers).
The LSD rear end mixes the best of both worlds. In the straight, it provides power to both wheels like a fixed axle design, providing maximum acceleration. In the curves, the planetary gears (correct term?) allow the inner wheel to spin at a different (correct) rate than the outer wheel while still providing power to that wheel, again maximizing power AND handling. However, it is more expensive to produce and may have higher maintenance costs also.
While I may have the mechanical details a bit messed up (been about 20 years since I looked at them), I think the concepts are correct...
Hope this helps.
Scott
The rumor is that the Coupe will have LSD standard. And while I hope the Manual G Sedan will come with LSD, it's nice to know that the Coupe LSD can be transplanted to the Sedan.
Most BMW's do not have LSD. A great oversight.
I agree with most of your post. I like my G and wouldn't have anything else. As you say it is a very fine car and I would recommend the G to anyone. If I were buying another car I would buy another G35. Being that I am on my third compressor I tend to agree that the problem isn't there. I agree that most have not had or recognized the noise problem and wish I could say the same. My noise is louder than the engine and radio at normal levels and is very disturbing to me and anyone riding in the car. When other people are in the car and the noise sounds off they always ask, whats that? Wish I could give them an answer! It sounds like something is about to fly apart. This was verified by the service manager Tom at discover Infiniti in San Diego, he verified that the noise is very loud and seemed to be very concerned. Tom has been very nice and I am very happy with their attitude. In placing these posts my objective is to hopefully find answers and not be a whiner as someone has posted. I bought the car on March 20 and now have 3,000 miles on it and have been living with the noise since the first day. It has been almost three months and have not gotten any answers about the fix which you say is just a matter of minor settings or adjustments. If this is the case what are they? What do you think Infiniti should be doing? I paid $36,000. for this car and that is not pocket change to me. One poster just had the noise appear the first time after putting 4,500 miles on his car so possibly some of the people that have not experienced the noise problem in the past may in the future. Being that you are an Infiniti service manager any input will be very much appreciated, nice to have your help and comments, thanks.
Paul
El Cajon, California
I test drove G35 a month or so back. The road was wet and I was going ~50mph on a curvy road. You guessed it, the VCD kicked in and violently jerked the car 3 or 4 times to the intended direction. Scared me straight!
Umm, I guess LSD (no, not the drug) wouldda helped!
- Paul
Think the car is great! It was raining so couldn't do much in he way of speed. I talked to the sales man before going out to Infiniti Of Lisle, IL. He told me they will only sel at MSRP. When I got there I thought they would back off..They didn't! I left and the search continues.. Want at least 1000.00 Off Is that too much to ask? Silver,Grafite,Premium,Xenon...
Fields Infiniti provided me a loaner car even when I had 100,000 on my J30t. Ask Lisle if they do that.
I recommend you go to Fields in Libertyville or Glenview. My girlfriend got a great deal at Libertyville and we bothe had great service in Glenview so it's a toss up.
Luckily I was able to accelerate 60-100 faster than the Mustang GT (and lucky it wasn't an SVT).
Guess I could have slowed down (pride at stake tho)
Jerks...
pkl88 - LSD will help mostly on dry roads. While there will be some benefit on wet roads, the "slipperyness"
(crazy) ivan_99 - That is definitely a pet peeve I have with other drivers. Drive slow and then speed up when you do. UGH!
Anyone else notice that the travel of the gas pedal in the G35 seems to be pretty long and it takes a hard press clear to the floor to get the car to try to accelerate at top speed? It seems that "close" to the floor won't cause the same degree of tranny downshifting that a hard, all the way to the floor push does.
I thought that one of the benefits of the "gas by wire" was a quicker response, but it SEEMS to responds less aggressively than other cars I've owned. Not slower, just takes a deeper pedal push to get top acceleration.
Or am I just imagining things? If not, it might explain why some people who drive the car don't get the same feeling of violent acceleration that many of us do.
Scott
I notice that if I'm turning from a stop and put the power down it kicks in quite a bit.
When I have it off I just get a little tire spin and a little wiggle of the back end; then it just straitens out.
I never turn the VDC off unless I'm in pretend manual mode (don't trust the auto)