The problem is which ones to buy. As you have noticed they are very shaky on claims and ingredients. One other thing : "True" synthetics do not begin with crude oil (Mobil 1, Amsoil, Red Line, Quaker State and Valvoline) Other companies have used loop holes in the law to call their "severely cracked" creations "synthetic". They would be Pennzoil and Castrol (Syntec). Just some information from one "old dog" to another - he-he-he.
Yes, but the additives in oil are balanced properly to provide boundary lubrication, oxidation protection, and dispersancy over a duration and are blended to meet specific grade testing. Adding another additive to the mix may throw off the whole balance.
It seems that if you are going to spend more anyway, use the money on the highest quality ester-based synthetic which has proven results in providing greater oil film strength, higher actual viscosity in bearings under high temperature, less hydrodynamic drag, the ability to absorb more engine heat, better flow at subzero temperatures, and allows drain intervals in excess of 15,000 miles. Hey, that sounds like an infomercial!
Which ester are we talking? "Dibasic Acid Ester", "Hindered Polyol Ester" or "Phosphate Ester" ? The Acid Ester seems the best but all esters arerelatively unstable in water. Have they gotten over this? What are some ester based syns other than Red Line.
Hard to say which is "best", as a PAO-based oil could potentially have a better VI, flash, pour, etc. than an ester-based. Out of the three esters you listed, polyol always seems to come out on top, but again it depends on the additive package and overall formulation.
There are many polyol ester oils on the market, but most are used for other engine types (aircraft, etc.), and applications. I guess the cost is the major factor at the present time. Almost every synthetic oil has some level of ester, even Castrol (which used to be 100% ester). Since no one will reveal their formula, it's hard to say what kind of levels we are talking about. Redline is the only brand that does say they are 100% polyol ester that I know of.
synthetic lubrication is a scary place to go. We have access to(and some force feeding of) technical synlube info, but the manufacturers do not want to reveal which and what is associated with their products. Whether you are buying PAO or Ester based product is something the informed consumer often wants to know.
I think you have to give Mobil a little credit here. There is quite a bit of information at their site-enough to tell what's basically in the oil. Naturally their feeling is that their product is the best..duh.. Also their 800 number is pretty good and if the PR guy can't answer the question you can ask for their technical service facility and talk to an engineer actually involved in their syn development program. They also publish regularly in SAE whose documents are available at $10 ($8 for members). You would have to show me another thats better-not that they are perfect.
Are there any oil additives that can reduce valve lifter noise, dislodge or clean a sticky hydraulic lifter and help the engine run quieter and smoother? Has anyone had luck with any additives on valve lifters? Thanks.
This answer can't help you, I suspect, but it might entertain you for a moment. Many years ago when I was an undergraduate college student, my father bequeathed his ancient 1952 Cadillac Fleetwood on me. He gave me specific instructions concerning what he diagnosed as "failing hydraulic lifters." Of course, I had to test the situation for myself, and soon found him to be absolutely correct. I had to run Shell 100 motor oil, and nothing else would do.
Hydraulic lifters used to be adjustable. I had a noisy one on my camaro and adjusted as per factory specs. As I recall you tightened the lifter adjusting nut til it got noisy and then backed off half a turn. I realize it may not always work due to wear/damage etc. Kind of a messy job-lots of oil-had to do it with the engine running.
Arco Graphite Oil is no longer advertised? I don't know if it's even still available.Just haven't seen any ads for it in a long time. Or did it wind up clogging and destoying engines?
As adc100 pointed out, most noisy lifters should be adjusted, not coated with some additive. When the cam lobes wear, or the valve springs weaken over time, the rockers and lifters will get noisy. Typical procedure is to adjust the rocker nut when that lifter is flat on the cam. The pushrod is spun with the fingers until zero tolerance is felt, then the rocker nut is tightened another 1/2 to 3/4 turn.
I think some additives might be beneficial, as long as you don't expect them to actually make up for severe engine wear.
When a mechanical component has substantial amounts of material worn off it, that's it...nothing in a can is going to put metal back on a piston or a camshaft or a valve seat or a timing chain sprocket.
I knew a guy with a 2nd generation (1990-94) Acura Integra that had a noisy lifter or something in the valve train and he used the CD-2 detergent to good effect.
Hydraulic valve lifters aren't externally adjustable. It's the valve lash you are adjusting. Hydraulic lifters require less frequent adjusting than do solid lifters.
Sometimes they can get dirt in them and don't bleed down properly , and sometimes they are just flat wore out. Depends a lot on mileage and type of car.
I agree that if there is mechanical wear, no additive will be of any use. If the car has been sitting for a while or if there is dirt, etc. an additive or detergent may help to some extent.
A friend has recommended "Rislone" that he got from AutoZone. He says that it helped him smoothen the 'clickity clack' sound of his valve lifters as well as the engine noise. I have not used it yet (or any other additive) so not sure if this is the best for the job. Has anyone here used this additive for noisy hydraulic valve lifters? Should I use the Marvel Mystery Oil instead? Thanks.
i don't remember the marine tech on one of these forums who recommended marvel mystery oil, 4oz per 10 gal of gas, for smokey and rough idling outboards, but he sure was right. a few tankfuls thru my mercury and runs smooth and no smoke. supposedly cleans and lubes the cylinder heads. a great tip.
Personally, if there were that much wear on my cam lobes, springs, etc. that couldn't be adjusted, I would either replace the cam/lifters/springs (all relatively inexpensive parts), or dump the vehicle if it wasn't worth the engine upgrades. I've heard many a noisy lifter after rocker installations, but they all have been adjusted to silence.
If the problem is sticking lifters, then I would be very concerned about what else was gummed up in the engine, and why that happened since I only use synthetics.
Maybe I would try some additive if I had a vehicle on its last leg, and I was just trying to squeeze a few more miles out of it, but I wouldn't expect it to run for very long when I'm simply covering up a problem.
Went out of production a few years after it came on the market. Reasons cited were that they realized the graphite did nothing to luricate the engine, same as teflon!
I tried the ARCO graphite oil and found it went through my engine like water, in a car that didn't use oil before )or after I changed away from it). The graphite may have been OK, but the oil wasn't. Can't say I'm surprised it didn't survive. Lifters--try Rislone. It does work if the only problem is varnish or dirt and it isn't too bad. If you really have a filthy engine, one of the 5 min flushes that are mostly kerosene may cure the problem, but follow the instructions and IDLE it no longer than 5 minutes. It might be a good idea to follow up with a shortened oil change interval right after using it to remove any kerosene left.
You said, "I knew a guy with a 2nd generation (1990-94) Acura Integra that had a noisy lifter or something in the valve train and he used the CD-2 detergent to good effect."
Those Integras were dohc engines, which don't have lifters, to my understanding of the matter. Whatever it was that was quieted, it wasn't hydraulic lifters on an Integra!
Lokki, I'm not sure about what OHC engines have for actuating the valves ... nor what their technical name is ... but the valves still have to be mechanically acted upon and I'm sure there are parts doing essentially the same job as a lifter ... or a very similar one.
Now where did that cut-away of the engine I had go ... ?
Take a look at this site www.lubegard.com look like they have at least one manufacture (SAAB) that has a TSB for a trans fix using lubegard trans supplement.The info is under( endorced by manufactures)
about ARCO Graphite. I've never met anyone who had used it before.In these posts, it seems that only the Marvel Mystery Oil has any effectiveness or measurable results for quite a few users. Seems like the additive marketers took a page out of the cosmetics industry handbook: million dollar hype to sell what is essentially mineral oil,water and fragrance, then sell it for 39.95 for 4 oz. of youth in a bottle. But I still love those Dura-Lube infomercials!
My Dad used ARCOGRAPHITE in his 1974 Chevy Cheyenne 350. Engine went 377,000+ miles, rings ok, bearings ok, valve guides ok, pulley on crank broke and he replaced entire engine. An article in 1977 or 1978 in Popular Science had a test on two sythetics vs 30 wt dino oil. One was Exxon evenflo. They ran two Chevy impalas with 350's and left oil in for 30,000 miles. The engine with Arcographite still had hone marks on the cylinder walls, the camshaft was like new, so were rings, crankshaft, bearings, etc. ARCO discontinued the graphite oil sometime in the early 80's. I remember Union 76 Long distance purple, it was a 10-30 long life oil, looked like grapejuice and poured like it. It also disappeared. A few years ago i searched for a GRAPHITE additive, i found a company that sold a 16oz bottle for $19.95 forgot name, it was a multi-level marketing company that used parymid scheme to attract distributers, shucks, can't remember. Maybe AMWAY, not sure..
Some transmissions do not like additives, makes synchros work funny. Be prepared to drain it if it doesn't work for you. Certainly worth a try if smother shifting is your goal. Longevity claims should be taken with grain of salt.
But they do have some pretty impressive stats where they mixed a number of additives and then baked them at a high temperature for 48 hours and tested the acids. Lubegard was even lower than ordinary unheated dexron III.
The Saab recommendation for lubegard in the transmission is for real.
I happened to have a bottle of Slick 50 collecting dusts in my closet. I was saving it for an oil change prior to Winter, thinking it would offer better protection in cold temperature. Or maybe use it in my brother's new car when it arrives.
But I am hesistating now because an authorized factory technician told me that if I do use such additive, my next oil change should be done in a shorter interval (less than 2000 miles according to him) to prevent it from developing sludges which could eventually damage the engine. He said sludges are developed because Slick 50 or others similar in nature have teflon in them. Is this true?
... your technician pal gave you really good advice.
First, the stuff is a little on the thick side so I'd use it in the summer.
Second, I wouldn't worry about it 'sludging up' and I'd run it the usual 3-5,000 miles and then change your oil and filter. Yes, the stuff has teflon in it and I'm not sure how much help that stuff is inside your motor (opinions vary) but I don't see how it could sludge up unless you really extend your change interval and the rest of the oil breaks down, oxidizes and collects particulates.
I've used it numerous times. I'd use an ordinary filter, not a super fine one just to make sure it doesn't clog. The engines always seem to run smoother afterwords. It's only done every 50,000 miles. I would run a 2-3K interval
If additives could really increase fuel economy five to seven percent, auto companies would specify that an oil containing them be used, and oil companies would add them to their super premium products. Patents would not be a problem, because if the stuff worked the oil companies would pay the royalties to have the oil that really increases milage.
Reminds me of the "fifty mile per gallon carbuerator" you could get for your Cadillac if the oil companies weren't holding the patents. Patents expire, fuel injection does better than any carbuerator, and we still don't have fifty mile per gallon Caddy's.
I think with synthetic compounds (oils, greases, etc ...) you can gain a little advantage of one type or another ... but you pay for it. Nothing is for free.
I bought 2 bottles of this. 1 for my Integra and 1 for my Toyota truck. It didnt do anything for my Integra. In my truck it must have cleaned up my engine pretty good, it quieted down my timing chain on startup and it quieted down the valve noise quite a bit.
Acyraowner, I'm not sure what you expected from that CD-2 detergent. If your engine is not suffering from any lubrication sludge/deposit problems, it should not have made a difference.
I know an Integra owner who thought he had a stuck valve and CD-2 valve detergent seemed to 'cure" it ... but that's it.
Comments
It seems that if you are going to spend more anyway, use the money on the highest quality ester-based synthetic which has proven results in providing greater oil film strength, higher actual viscosity in bearings under high temperature, less hydrodynamic drag, the ability to absorb more engine heat, better flow at subzero temperatures, and allows drain intervals in excess of 15,000 miles. Hey, that sounds like an infomercial!
There are many polyol ester oils on the market, but most are used for other engine types (aircraft, etc.), and applications. I guess the cost is the major factor at the present time. Almost every synthetic oil has some level of ester, even Castrol (which used to be 100% ester). Since no one will reveal their formula, it's hard to say what kind of levels we are talking about. Redline is the only brand that does say they are 100% polyol ester that I know of.
When a mechanical component has substantial amounts of material worn off it, that's it...nothing in a can is going to put metal back on a piston or a camshaft or a valve seat or a timing chain sprocket.
Hydraulic valve lifters aren't externally adjustable. It's the valve lash you are adjusting. Hydraulic lifters require less frequent adjusting than do solid lifters.
--- Bror Jace
A friend has recommended "Rislone" that he got from AutoZone. He says that it helped him smoothen the 'clickity clack' sound of his valve lifters as well as the engine noise. I have not used it yet (or any other additive) so not sure if this is the best for the job. Has anyone here used this additive for noisy hydraulic valve lifters? Should I use the Marvel Mystery Oil instead? Thanks.
If the problem is sticking lifters, then I would be very concerned about what else was gummed up in the engine, and why that happened since I only use synthetics.
Maybe I would try some additive if I had a vehicle on its last leg, and I was just trying to squeeze a few more miles out of it, but I wouldn't expect it to run for very long when I'm simply covering up a problem.
Lifters--try Rislone. It does work if the only problem is varnish or dirt and it isn't too bad. If you really have a filthy engine, one of the 5 min flushes that are mostly kerosene may cure the problem, but follow the instructions and IDLE it no longer than 5 minutes. It might be a good idea to follow up with a shortened oil change interval right after using it to remove any kerosene left.
"I knew a guy with a 2nd generation (1990-94) Acura Integra that had a noisy lifter or something in the valve train and he used the CD-2 detergent to good effect."
Those Integras were dohc engines, which don't have lifters, to my understanding of the matter.
Whatever it was that was quieted, it wasn't hydraulic lifters on an Integra!
Now where did that cut-away of the engine I had go ... ?
--- Bror Jace
Seems like the additive marketers took a page out of the cosmetics industry handbook: million dollar
hype to sell what is essentially mineral oil,water and fragrance, then sell it for 39.95 for 4 oz. of youth in a bottle.
But I still love those Dura-Lube infomercials!
30,000 miles. The engine with Arcographite still had hone marks on the cylinder walls, the camshaft was like new, so were rings, crankshaft, bearings, etc. ARCO discontinued the graphite oil sometime in the early 80's. I remember Union 76 Long distance purple, it was a 10-30 long life oil, looked like grapejuice and poured like it. It also disappeared. A few years ago i searched for a GRAPHITE additive, i found a company that sold a 16oz bottle for $19.95
forgot name, it was a multi-level marketing company that used parymid scheme to attract distributers, shucks, can't remember. Maybe AMWAY, not sure..
Don't know how it works in the motor oil however.
The Saab recommendation for lubegard in the transmission is for real.
But I am hesistating now because an authorized factory technician told me that if I do use such additive, my next oil change should be done in a shorter interval (less than 2000 miles according to him) to prevent it from developing sludges which could eventually damage the engine. He said sludges are developed because Slick 50 or others similar in nature have teflon in them. Is this true?
First, the stuff is a little on the thick side so I'd use it in the summer.
Second, I wouldn't worry about it 'sludging up' and I'd run it the usual 3-5,000 miles and then change your oil and filter. Yes, the stuff has teflon in it and I'm not sure how much help that stuff is inside your motor (opinions vary) but I don't see how it could sludge up unless you really extend your change interval and the rest of the oil breaks down, oxidizes and collects particulates.
--- Bror Jace
Reminds me of the "fifty mile per gallon carbuerator" you could get for your Cadillac if the oil companies weren't holding the patents. Patents expire, fuel injection does better than any carbuerator, and we still don't have fifty mile per gallon Caddy's.
Harry
I don't believe in "miracle" products either.
I think with synthetic compounds (oils, greases, etc ...) you can gain a little advantage of one type or another ... but you pay for it. Nothing is for free.
--- Bror Jace
I'm not sure what you expected from that CD-2 detergent. If your engine is not suffering from any lubrication sludge/deposit problems, it should not have made a difference.
I know an Integra owner who thought he had a stuck valve and CD-2 valve detergent seemed to 'cure" it ... but that's it.
--- Bror Jace