Jeep Liberty: Problems & Solutions

ozone1

We had the same horrible mileage initially. Believe it or not, it does get slightly better after around 6 or 7k miles. We have just over 10k on our Liberty and are now getting just over 16 MPG, but we also drive 50/50 Highway/City in hilly terrain.

jeepeskie

Thanks for the tip on the headliner rattle. The dealership tried doing some "glue" in the area it was happening, made a mess and didn't fix it.
Has anyone else experienced what seems to be a rear brake sticking? When backing out of the garage or anywhere during cold weather my rear brake (s) make a screeching sound. Also, when cold I hear a "thump" when I apply the brake pedal while driving slowly. Any ideas?

ozone1

There are a few mentions on the board regarding the transmission "thump" when slowing down to a crawl while in Drive. We've experienced it a couple of times in our Liberty also, once after shifting into 4H to get off an icy sloping driveway and the other time in 2H while braking and then coasting to a stop at an intersection. On both occasions the car had just been started. I haven't felt it occur after the car warms up, however

tbunder1

is normal. mine does it after it's just been started as well. others do too. several have had dealers look at it and they say it is normal. i wouldn't worry too much about it.

john325

Thumping transmissions don't sound too normal to me. Just because the dealer says, it's normal, I'm not sure I'd buy that. It's not uncommon for a dealer to say your problem is a "normal problem". Cars typically do not "thump" when slowing down. Why would they?

paisan

Well I'll weigh in here on Isuzu and Kia trannies. We get thumps on slowdowns as well. I believe it's related to having 'stiffer/crisper' shifts this causes a thump when downshifting, basically it's better for the tranny as I've been explained it rather than a soft-lincolnlike downshift that increases torque converter wear and heat.

-mike

john325

I'd hate to be comparing "normal" to Kia's... Isuzu, should be a better basis of comparison. Have they always had thumping?? I've had friends w/ prior year Isuzu's and don't recall them thumping...

If normal wear & tear gets one 100k plus on a torque converter/transmission w/ smooth shifting, what do you get w/ a thumper? Just curious...

paisan

200K
198K
etc.

Most of my Isuzu friends have well over 150K miles. Ford trannies are lucky to reach 50-80K w/o problems. The Sorentos use Aisin trannies, same ones that go in Toyota trucks.

-mike

tbunder1

dont stereotype all trannies as being bad. your blanket statements about ford trannies is just your biased opinion. any tranny will fail early if not cared for. ive had several fords go 150K to 200K on original trannies and are still going. to even put the word KIA in any comparison to the Liberty is laughable.

the Liberty 'thump' is just what someone described it to be. the tranny is built so tight that when it downshifts after initial start up, it downshifts tight. it doesn't thump as much as it is just a feeling. i personally haven't heard anything, it's just a feeling. and it just happens on the first downshift and not even all the time. i noticed when it was warm out it didn't do it at all.

if you're comparing kia's to the liberty, it sounds like you don't really know what you're looking at. the liberty is probably one of the most capable 4x4's offered right now. it climbs with authority and offers excellent ground clearance along with real axles and a real transfer case. that's not even mentioning it's rock solid chassis and excellent build quality.

paisan

I based my ford experience on several fords owned by close friends, mostly exploders and FWD fords. (at least 12-15 people I know have had problems with their ford trannies).

As for the Sorento v. liberty...

if you're comparing kia's to the liberty, it sounds like you don't really know what you're looking at. the liberty is probably one of the most capable 4x4's offered right now. it climbs with authority and offers excellent ground clearance along with real axles and a real transfer case. that's not even mentioning it's rock solid chassis

Ground clearance on the liberty is very close to the Sorento.
The Sorento has REAL Axles (Solid rear, Indy front, just like the liberty) and Aisin Tranny (same as the 4-runner and Toyota 4x4s) and a REAL transfer case (Borg-Warner TOD unit) that provides low range).

Maybe you should get out and look around, think outside the marketing box that Jeep promotes. Not to say that the liberty is bad, my best friend owns a liberty and a trooper (he drives the trooper, his wife drives the liberty) The Sorento is a very capable vehicle and worth considering in the same price range as the liberty with similar characteristics.

-mike

tbunder1

you still need to look deeper.
the liberty has DANA axles. it has the same transfer case that the most capable 4x4 on the planet has- the Wrangler. just because a vehicle has a t/c doesn't mean it's capable. look at nissan vehicles. they have a t/c, but their low range has been dubbed as being way too high for any serious off-road excursions such as climbing. you also say the sorento has independent front suspension "like the liberty". i highly doubt the cheap korean made sorento has cast iron control arms or cast iron steering knuckle, or even a coil over shock suspension system. i dont know, but im assuming the sorento is torsion bar sprung. maybe the sorento is a capable vehicle if picking up your kids from soccer practice is what you're mission is and wished you could afford a 4-runner. but last time i checked, i didn't see car and driver hailing the sorento as a true off roader and taking it through creek beds and climbing steep inclines. as i said before, comparing any KIA to any JEEP is quite hilarious. what was the sorento ground clearance anyways?

paisan

Ok I wasn't gonna go here but...

Last time I was at Uwharrie, going up one of the steep rock climbs. There was a string of wranglers in front of us. Guess what? 2 of the wranglers BROKE their driveshafts, 1 of them broke a transfercase and 1 had to be towed up because it didn't have a rear LSD. 3 Troopers went up 1 with ATs and a 2" lift, no problems encountered, 1 with ST tires and no lift, no problems, and 1 with AT tires and no lift, no problems. They all took the same lines.

The Sorento has the same axles and transfer cases as the Trooper. And the Trooper has a front T-bar suspension as well.

So Yes I do know about offroading... And the Sorento will do just fine offroading.

-mike
http://isuzu-suvs.com

jeepeskie

My "thump" is not from the transmission. I only get this noise when it is COLD and when I step on the brake pedal (going slower than 20mph)......I think this is related to my rear brakes sticking when I am backing out of the garage. (I get a screeching sound) The dealer can't hear the noises when I take it in because by the time I get there it has warmed up. I hate to leave it at the dealer overnight sitting outside. Anyone else have input on this?

paisan

Brakes thumping, sounds like it could be corrosion that builds up overnight on the brakes? Just a thought.

-mike

ozone1

Where is the sound coming from? Can you feel anything or is it just a noise, like the screeching you're hearing.

vin_weasel

When talking about the Sorrento and the Liberty I'd give a slight advantage in toughness to the Liberty, mainly due to the IFS lower arms. The TOD transfer case is fine as is the New Process Jeep model. Both are proven models. The front axle in the Liberty is an ALUMINUM Dana 30 (ie weak) with a Dana 35 (weak) or Chryco 8.25 (better) rear end. I don't know what's in the sorrento in the way of axles. Dana 44 rear?

I'd give the advantage to the Aisin transmission over the Chryco garbage. Does the Sorrento have an AW4? If so, great tranny.

These vehicles are in the same class and should be cross-shopped. As for reliability, I'd say neither is going to be all that hot.

jeepeskie

It is coming from the rear....underneath. I can't feel anything, just the thump and it happens each time I push on the brake pedal. So, if I push on the brake pedal, take my foot off then push it again I hear the thump each time.

tbunder1

discussion has gotten off topic. but ill say this-comparing anything KIA to a JEEP is laughable. the tranny in the libs is identical to the ones in the Rubicon Wranglers. it is not weak. and the Dana axle is not weak, it has plenty of off-road time. just visit www.kjjeep.com and take a gander at the pics of the KJ in action. it is anything but weak. the sorento is just an attempt by kia to fill a void that it had for a long time. a midsize suv. it is bigger than the KJ and looks like a camry that's been raised. it is not off-roadable, does it even come with skidplates or an off-road pkg? how about a LSD in the rear? i again ask the ground clearance on the kia. it's clear who has knowledge of off-roading on this forum. anyone who brags about troopers and dogs wranglers clearly is naive to the off-road sector. the wrangler is easily the most capable off-road vehicle in production. and the KJ shares a lot of driveline parts with the wrangler. did i mention that the KJ was made of galvanized steel and has a chassis that is made up of high strength steel and has been hailed as the most solid jeep chassis ever? let's hear some accolades and brags for the kia. with all due respect, you don't know of anything you're talking about paisan.

john325

You guys are mixing it up pretty good here. Perhaps it should be the start of another topic, although tbunder1 would argue that to make such a comparison would be laughable. Who knows...

We have a friend who has a Liberty and she's pleased w/ it. But I'm sure it only see's city streets and shopping centers. Re: Kia however: I have a good friend who's a top mechanic in our area - he says the Kia's are junk and to avoid them. He see's and works on practically all cars. I'm sure he knows what he's talking about...

Okay guys, now for round "4"....

paisan

It is apparent that you are in the "jeep is better than anything" crowd so I won't bother argueing with you anymore on this topic. I on the other hand never said that Jeeps weren't capable, just that they aren't the be-all-end-all of off-road vehicles. I keep an open mind and look for other vehicles out there rather than a head in the sand attitude.

Most of the Jeeps you are talking about are HIGHLY modified jeeps, not stock ones. The Sorento has a full-box frame, skid plates, LSD.

Sorento:
Ground Clearanc: 8.2
Front Suspension: Double-wishbone coil spring w/gas strut damper, stabilizer bar
Std Tire Size: 245-70-16

Jeep:
Ground Clearance: 9.5
std Tire Size: 215-75-16

The Jeep has better angles of approach and departure and a rear mounted spare, with a rear mounted spare the Sorento will get an equivilent rear departure angle.

Bottom line is that yes the jeep has a slight advantage offroad, but to say they aren't in the same class is laughable!

Keep an open mind folks...

-mike

vin_weasel

If you keep a closed mind about the competition you may miss what might be your next vehicle. I never would have looked at jeeps (and I LOVE my Cherokee) because I was looking at 4-cyl cute-utes but I thought I should check out all the competition.

As for my comment on negative reliability for both the Liberty and Kia, it was only a guess. Neither of these vehicles have really been around long enough to tell.

ozone1

Jeepeskie- it sounds so similar to the "thump" we hear in our Liberty, pressing on the brake pedal when cold, but I'm 95% sure the sound is coming from the transmission. Your problem may be different and I haven't seen it documented anywhere on these boards. Let us know what you find out if you take the car in.

tbunder1

paisan- i do have an open mind about the competition. i've owned ZR2 S10's, off-road rangers, explorers, and i would consider a nissan or toyota truck. but a kia just sounds like cheap materials and horrible resale values. and the jeeps i was talking about were not highly modified vehicles. they're all stock. i have skidplates throughout, front towhooks rated at 5000 lbs, dana axles, etc.

vin- i do have an open mind, but when it comes to korean junk, it's very much closed. im just sorry to hear that toyota uses such cheap driveline components. when kia uses something you know it's cheap, but to hear toyota uses the same thing, what does that say about their quality? maybe that explains why the tacoma and tundra are both down in sales this year. ill stick with domestics.

as far as the liberty proving itself, comsumer reports has recommended it as a good used car. it also received the highest safety ratings in it's class by the nhtsa. for only being two years old, and now leading it's class in sales by a huge margin, that's pretty good proof.

paisan- a ladder frame isn't necessarily all good in an suv. the uni-frame under the liberty is made up of galvanized high strength tensile steel which makes it more rigid than many ladder framed vehicles. for example, i remember reading an article where an Xterra owner cracked his own windshield simply because the chassis wasn't solid enough and let the whole vehicle twist up. that won't happen on the KJ. it's all one piece and extremely solid.

paisan

Have you test driven any lately? They are pretty much surging in quality and the $/value is very high on them. Definitely worth a test drive.

Stock for stock the Sorento will do 95% of what a liberty will do offroad. Unfortunately I'm not an owner of a Sorento or I'd challeng you to an offroad competition.

Side note...In order to even get towhooks and skid plates on a jeep you need to buy the "offroad" package. On all 4x4 Kias you get skids and towhooks STANDARD.

-mike

paisan

Anyone who knows anything about Toyotas, knows that they are world renound for their offroad abilities. How many Jeep liberties are sold in Australia? Sub-Saharan Africa? etc. How many Land Crusiers and Hiluxs are sold in those countries and they are running Aisin gears in them....

-mike

vin_weasel

Plus the Cherokee went from 1987 to 2001 with a "Toyota" transmission with very good results. So many people who only buy "import" cars say the same things about domestics that tbunder says about "Korean" cars.

paisan

I'm not a fan of domestics, but I'll give em a shot til they kick me in the butt. Of the domestics, the Jeeps are probably the toughest ones out there.

-mike

bmw323is

Actually the 2003 Liberty has 8.9 inches of ground clearance for the 4WD, not 9.5. They lowered the suspension a bit for 2003 - one of the auto mags rolled a 2WD Liberty during testing.

And Consumer Reports (current issue) is not kind to the Liberty. It's rated dead last in crash test and accident avoidance scores for small SUV's. It's also rated second to last (only the Xterra is worse) in overall satisfaction. They do still give it a "recommended" rating however, because it has average reliability. There is no information for the Sorento in CR because it is too new.

Lastly, I've been posting to, and reading, Edmunds message boards for over 3 years. I value others opinions when they can back them up with factual data. I've learned more here than by reading the 4 car magazines I get monthly. But tbunder, your "Korean junk" comments hardly qualify as an "informed opinion." I've driven the Sorento and spent some time studying the details. While it really is too new to predict reliability, it is a compelling alternative to the Liberty and other small/midsize, less expensive SUV's.

paisan

Thanks for the info on the lowered liberty, I knew they lowered it but couldn't find the new height detail on the Heep webpage so I put up the one I saw. So that means ground clearance is 8.2 on the Sorento v. 8.9 on the Liberty...

-mike

ozone1

Where did you get 8.9 inches of ground clearance from? 2002 Liberty's (like ours) had 10 inches of clearance, the 2003s according to Jeep is as follows:

Ground Clearance - at curb weight - Running Ground Clearance-9.50 in

tbunder1

i wouldn't even bother. these people think korean cars can do what jeeps do. that should tell you something.
and to whom it may concern, the liberty has the highest safety rating in its class. check out nhtsa.org to find out and stop posting false info for others to be mislead.
my KJ has 13" from ground to frame rail. anyone with any kia, i challenge you all. bring them all to iowa. this is getting ridiculous. i think the key word around here is "naive". and the people know who they are. the ones who claim kia's will do 95% of what a jeep will do. i wonder what a rubicon owner would think if a sportage owner said that to them? i can't stop laughing at some of you.

paisan

Your 13" is that stock? You can modify any vehicle to get 13" of ground clearance. Obviously you've done some nice mods on your truck...

Once you get into mods, all bets are off. I see you don't have an answer as to why the jeeps at Uwharrie couldn't get up the same hill as stock troopers? If they are so almighty....

-mike

bmw323is

I got the 8.9 inches of clearance from Jeep's own 2003 4WD Liberty booklet. I'm looking at it now.

tbunder, I quoted directly from Consumer Reports about the Liberty because YOU said the Liberty was well spoken for in that magazine. "and stop posting false info for others to be mislead" LOL.

ozone1

I am also looking at the specs for the 2003 Jeep from Jeep.com, says 9.5. In fact, looking at the specs for the 2003 Liberty on sites throughout the web lists 9.5 or 9.6. I don't have the brochure you have, so I can't discount what you're reading. The lowering from 10 inches to 9.5 was well publicized, never heard of a second lowering.

vin_weasel

That's not the lowest point on the vehicle. Try the lower A-arms.

A Kia Sorrento will do 95% of what a Jeep Liberty can do if similarly outfitted, stock for stock. A Liberty or Sorrento won't do 95% of what a Rubicon can do.

tbunder1

i have to disagree with you. my pre-lowered liberty has the trac-loc rear end and BFG all-terrains. i would challenge any Rubicon. im not saying i could go places a Rubicon could, but im saying it would be darn close. the Liberty isn't no pushover. it's got nearly the same crawl ratio. and though it doesn't offer front and rear lockers, i think your 95% is way off. i'd say more like 80/20. this is with tires of equal value on both rigs.

paisan- so what you're saying is that since those two specific jeeps had problems, which could have been a number of things/factors, that all jeeps must bow down to isuzus? friend, you are the epitome of the words inexperienced and naive. isuzus suck. bottom line.

and to whom it concerns- my jeep is all stock and i have 13" from ground to frame rail. ill email you pics if you want to see the measurement. from ground to LCA, i have 9.0 inches. my jeep is not lowered. and it has stock sized tires.

the liberty has only been lowered once. and all they did was put softer springs on it. it can be easily raised if that's your objective. 31" tires will go right on with the $300 2.5 inch lift. but so far, i am happy with stock height on mine. it's been said that january of '02 built liberty's are the highest of all. this is right before the lowering started and to be honest with you, mine looks lifted just because it isn't lowered and the BFG tires.

paisan

Yes what a mature comment... Isuzus suck...

I never said that there was a problem with Jeeps, all I said is that they aren't the BE-ALL-END-ALL of SUVs.

I'm glad you are happy with your Liberty though.

Happy Trails...

-mike
http://isuzu-suvs.com

ozone1

Here is what I received via Email from DC regarding ground clearance, which supports what bmw323is read from the brochure. The 4X2 model has higher clearance than the 4X4 in 2003 models...

Thank you for your recent email to the DaimlerChrysler Information Center
regarding the 2003 Jeep Liberty.

The ground clearance for the 2003 Jeep Liberty 4x2 is 9.5 inches. The 4x4 model
allows 8.9 inches.

stever

Let's get back to any Liberty problems or solutions in here.

thanks

Steve, Host

spyderveloce

Getting back to Liberty Problems, I have a 2002 Liberty Limited with cloth seats. Twice now I've had to have the drivers seat replaced because the frame in the upper right side of the seat back has broken causing an enormous amount of squeaking and a slight collapse of the right hand side of the seat. I have 25000 miles on it and I'm afraid that it is going to happen again and agian while out of warranty. Currently I have the third seat on order (backorder) so they took my seat apart and riveted the frame back together until my new seat arrives. They say they have never seen this problem before and someone from Chrysler was supposed to come and look at it to determine if it was a design problem they would have to address, but they cancelled. Has anyone else had this problem or might have this problem now? I'm not a small guy, but I'm not huge either...I don't abuse the seats at all...and I've never had this problem in my many previous cars. Any input is greatly appreciated.

tonyab

hi....this is my first post here, so be gentle with me please! lol

I bought a pre-owned certified 2002 Liberty on December 15, 2002. I have had it in the shop 5 times for the same repeated problem of not starting. They have dried a connector, changed a connector, changed a starter, rewired the wiring harness (something to do with the ground wire), and then last time, last week, changed the neutral safety switch. This time I got it back with mud all in my seats, scratches in the side, and barely any oil in it with a ton of oil leaking all under it!!!!!!! I am furious!!!!!!!!!! I am a single woman and not very mechanical, but I think I can safely say that this is too much to be tolerated!!!!! What do you guys think??

tidester

Welcome aboard! I think you'll find the "regulars" here are among the most friendly, knowledgeable and helpful of any automotive group on the web!

tidester, host

spyderveloce

A few days ago after posting on this discussion group, I wrote a rather lengthy complaint e-mail to Chrysler about the problems with my drivers seat. I stated my concerns that this would be an ongoing issue and that I would like some guarantee that this replacement would be the last due to the poor design. I went on to express my annoyance at the handling of my vehicle as the lot tech drove it from the back lot to me (excessive speed followed by a tire screeching halt) and the fact that the antenna was broken off when it was returned. They actually had the gall asked me to replace it and bill them. What is the parts department for again?! To my suprise I actually recieved a response. A rather unsatisfactory response. I was simply told that they had checked the status of the backordered part and it was shipped. Nothing else but an apology for the fact that I've been dissapointed. So to sum it up..."Sorry bout your luck. The part is in the mail". I'm rather insulted by the level of service I've gotten. I've gotten better service from the Chevy Service Department at the same dealership. Even Ford strove to make things right on my wifes out of warranty Escort. So far I'm sickened by what I thought was a good American made vehicle with a long history. I sincerely hope that someone in a position to do something at Chrysler is reading this. My next car is going to be German.

paisan

Is german!

-mike

alicej

We have had our 2003 Jeep Liberty Limited for one month. Yesterday the back window blew out, in to lots of smaller pieces(some in the Jeep, most on the lot). The dealer service has it now. Has anyone else heard about or experienced this problem?

tiredofmanual

Your situation doesn't sound good. I think you may want to send an email to a guy named zueslewis on this board, he is an expert on lemon law cases and can give you the best advice on whether or not that is an avenue you want to explore.

Good luck.

martee99

Sorry to hear of your problem. Unless you actually witnessed the window shatter on it's own, I suspect you may have been the target of a break-in or vandalism. There is a spring loaded punch that rescue personnel use to gain rapid entry into a vehicle if neccessary without have to "brake and rake" a car window. The punch is placed at the base of the window and when it is pushed down upon on the window surface- WHaLa - a window broken into little pieces.

statboysffl

I just bought a brand new 2003 Liberty Limited (automatic), drove it for 2 days and noticed there was a problem with the transmission. I immediately brought it to the dealership to have it looked at. They said that it was "contaminated" at the factory, that water was in the transmission, and that the factory is going to send a new one out and replace it. The service manager told me that this is a stand alone unit, and that it should have no affect on other parts of the engine. Since the car is just 2 days in and less than 100 miles, I would like a new car. Does anybody here know about the Liberty's transmission system? Am I over-reacting? Should I push for a new one, or do you think this was an isolated incident, and after they replace it, it really should be fine after this? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

tbunder1

that's kind of like having a new baby and it being deaf at birth. your liberty is new and it will never be the same if you swap trannys. i'd argue for a new vehicle. you deserve it. don't be a guinea pig. sure it probably will be okay with the new tranny, but why should you have to suffer?

statboysffl

Thanks tbunder, you're right. Chrysler said this morning that they are honoring the warranty by replacing the unit, and that's what they are required to do. What they are required to do, and should do are two different things. The dealership is "working on it", but the whole thing is VERY frustrating. The factory screwed up, the factory should make it right by giving me the new car I bargained for.