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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

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Comments

  • wainwain Posts: 479
    explain this:
    I went to the Amelia Island Florida Concours Car Auction today. They had a Ferrari selling at about $100k that had two FRAM filters mounted on the front top of the engine.

    What was all that about?
    Seems a car like that would have had an OE filter , or did Ferrari use Fram??
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    So, inquiring minds want to know: was the oil filter a FRAM? :)

    Speaking of FRAM, I passed by the WallyMart filter area on the way to buying some fish food. The advertising on the box of Fram sez single pass efficiency 96% and multiple pass efficiency was 94%

    WallyMart Super Tech sez 98% and 99% respectively.
  • there as a show piece. I smell a Fram promotion/freebie.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    I think you left out a category of oil change behavior in your post. My category is something like 'wants to learn as much as possible about oil and filter longevity and change it at a safe interval in the most cost-efficient manner possible.' I and others may not fit in your "Still others want to know what is REALLY required whether its dino or synthetic" category, but that doesn't mean we are some sort of clueless folks who go by what their dads say or just run down to Jiffy Lube or whatever.

    I think one can take good care of his/her engine without doing oil analysis. I.e. I do not believe it is necessary. It sounds like you disagree.

    Re: fleet companies and which vehicles receive oil analysis - I agree it makes sense that 1) it's not necessary to do analysis on ALL of the vehicles - a suitable sample size should be sufficient. 2) they probably rotate the vehicles whose engines are analyzed, to make sure each of them gets a checkup every so often. However, doesn't this approach mean the fleet company won't have the ability to do trend analysis on the same engine, which most oil analysis proponents deem so important?
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    http://www.aus-cartalk.com/auspoc/techstuff.htm#OilResearch

    Interesting that he says that the mobil1 solved his lifter knocking problem probably because of the high flow of clean oil keeping them cool and clean IMO.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    "wants to learn as much as possible about oil and filter longevity and change it at a safe interval in the most cost-efficient manner possible"

    The "most cost efficient manner possible" is impossible to determine without some oil analysis. The price of an oil analysis is MUCH more than paid for in the long term savings in oil, filters and labor (whether its dollars you pay to have it done or your own time and effort).

    I guess I should ask, how does bluedevils determine what interval to change his oil at? The answer to that will place you in the category you should be in.
  • sensors, but was it do to overoiling when servicing the filter? I understand this is usually the problem.
  • guess I'll be giving it a try.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    that looks very good with respect for the mobil1 filter beating Fram NapaGold and PureOne.

    http://jeepsunlimited.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=296- 7909#post2967909
  • knapp3knapp3 Posts: 112
    The Mobil 1 caught 14,619 parts per million. The Fram, Napa, and Pure 1 all captured over 17,000 ppm. Why is the Mobil 1 better when it filtered less of the “Solid Particle Stuff that Shouldn’t Be In the Oil..." as the author termed it?

    What am I missing here?
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    Yesterday I changed the oil and filter on my 2002 Merc Mountaineer Premier. I used Shell oil and a Supertech filter.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    Those are the test results of the oil after it has been filtered through those filters. He even says right below the charts that the Mobil1 was the best.

    Don't confuse you with the facts, huh fleetwood?
  • knapp3knapp3 Posts: 112
    It's a test OF THE OIL, not the filter. Right, Yeah, Okay. Sure.

    Now that we've got that little misunderstanding cleared up. He also said there isn’t a very great difference in filtering efficiencies between any of the four filters. For about 100% more money, the Mobil 1 filters 16-24% more of the "Particle Stuff". Well, at least I got that part right! :)
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    If we were talking about $100 vs. $50 for the filters, I would say that the cost mattered. The $5-8/oil change is worth protecting my engine better against the possiblity of major repairs down the road. At least to me it is. Most major engine repairs that could be related to parts in contact with the oil will easily dwarf that extra $200 I will spend on filters over the time I own the car.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I thought it was established in earlier posts that filters are a waste of time and money. Guess I gotta back up and regroup. :)

    And just when I got through disassembling a Mobil 1, gutting and reassembling it so I'd never have to buy a filter again. Thought I should use the Mobil 1 case to explosion proof it seeing as how I have had so many filters split open and blow my oil all over the place. :(

    Really guys, this is getting a little fanatical.
  • knapp3knapp3 Posts: 112
    As long as I'm asking questions, I'll just keep going. When did we establish that filters are a waste of time and money? I'd like to see the evidence that demonstrates it. I guess I'll have to go back and re-read some posts. That one blew by me too.

    On the contrary, I think oil filters play a vital role, and really do catch garbage you don't want in your engine. Lookie here:
    http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;- f=6;t=000385
    The Trivector test in this post and the study Bigorange found present some pretty compelling evidence for chosing a high efficient filter if that is what someone wanted to use on their car.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I was just being facitious. I too am convinced any filter is useful in protecting your engine. They all remove some potentially damaging dirt from the oil.

    And if I spend $10 for 5 qt of Castrol GTX plus a SuperTech filter. Then change my oil and filter 33 times in 100000 miles it will have cost me $330 to protect my engine with new filters and oil every 3000 miles. Hardly a sum to me that warrants oil analysis to reduce the number of these changes I must do.

    I also would never more than double that change interval regardless of the results of an analysis.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    I will also spend about the same amount on mine with mobil1 oil and mobil1 filters over the same time period. However, the sum you will spend over 100k is $396 ($12 x 33 changes) not $330. Mine will be $390 ($30 x 13 changes). However, I spend 1/3 the time under the car or at the lube shop.

    The Purolator PureOne is also a very good filter. It is just below the mobil1 IMO.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    "($12 x 33 changes)"

    No, that would assume $2 per quart for Castrol. ($2X5=10 plus $1.97 for the filter = $11.97)

    The most I have paid in the past has been $1.47. The 24 quarts I have on hand cost $1.37 each. ($1.37X5 plus $1.97 = $8.82) Even at $1.59 per quart I would still meet my $10.00 figure. I buy when I see oil on sale, not as I need it.

    If oil prices drive up the cost of motor oil that could rise. But in the past including the 70's gasoline panic, I saw little difference in motor oil prices as compared to gasoline.

    As you can see then the total would be $291.06. I was actually allowing a $38.94 cushion for price increase.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2243

    I read your link with great interest! The link trys to compare different high quality filters AND a bypass filter system.

    The numbers for the oil guard bypass filter sytem at between 150-200 dollars plus 11 dollars for the filter media is well worth the cost ! If the numbers are to be believed it gives you app 7x better performance than currently available filters !!!

    The real question revolutionary questions can be:

    1. can you extend the oil change intervals (to match current competitor filter contaminations) on a synthetic oil change 2x-7x ? Using my own case. 2-7x extentions would range between 30k-105 K intervals.

    2. The other side would be to find the point where it actually increases the likelihood of extending the useful life of your engine 2-7 times. So you would modify your oil and filter change to keep it as clean as possible given, given clean oil keeps parts within specs longer. (500k-1.75M miles)

    So given the assumptions that you can go app 250k miles with conventional 3k intervals and also with synthetic go 250k miles with 15k intervals, are we off to the analysis and races yet??
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    Doesn't account for the value of your time if you do your own changes or the cost of labor if you have someone else do it. Is my time just worth more to me than yours is to you? Is your engine as well lubricated as mine? I don't think either of us can answer that last one with certainty but there are alot of people that beileve the synthetic does lubricate better and reduces the chances of major engine repairs at an early mileage.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2255

    I think that calculation is probably most important! To the point that it far exceeds the cost of the oil change itself! In my case, if I send an employee to simply drive the car to like a jiffy lube not only counting the cost of the gas, but 1-2 hrs of his her time. So a simple 30 dollar oil change is now getting up around 80 dollars. Parts of course (7/20 dollars)will start to be non consequential.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    "Is your engine as well lubricated as mine?"

    As I have said, I have never had an engine failure in over 45 years of car ownership due to either oil or filter failure. With regular PM all my engines have outlived the rest of the vehicle in which they were installed. I therefore must conclude that I don't need any better lubrication.

    As for time spent on oil changes. That has and will remain something I enjoy and I do not consider it an expense due to my labor. In fact I could make the case it saves me money I might spend on another hobby or passtime. Obviously you spend a lot of time worrying/contemplating how long you can go between oil changes. If you use your "how much is your time worth" theory, you also have to include the time you spend trying to avoid changing your oil and discussing it on an internet forum. I conclude that with car nuts time is no object when it comes to the care of their cars.

    If that is your criteria, you should be occupied trying to earn more money to cover the expense of maintaining your car instead of online discussing it.

    I have three vehicles. A 1957 F100 pickup with 226000 miles, a 95 Olds 88 with over 80000 miles and a 2001 Millenia with just under 9000 miles. None of them use any oil except for a minor leak on the rocker arm cover of the truck, and a minor leak underneath the Oldsmobile. Different oil or filters would not prevent either of those leaks. They are due to aging gaskets and if necessary easily repaired.

    Except for my '53 Ford Tudor (60 HP flathead V-8), none of my vehicles have even burned any oil between changes that would not be considered completely normal. IOW very minor oil usage. That Ford's engine was retired with 118000 miles on it. The car at that point was a rusting rattletrap from road salts and a lot of years of hard use. In those days that was quite good.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    Got problems with reading, eh, BO30?
    It's really simple! You buy "certified" motor oil and a competitive high grade filter. Install. Drive 3-4K, repeat above.
    The M1 filter is just one of many that will do an adequate job. If you prefer spending more money on your oil and/or filter, you should feel free to do so. Those are the facts. I don't think they are confusing anyone here, except possibly you! >:o]
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    to conventional filters. Many high efficiency filters are. Those are the facts I have shown in recent posts that you are ignoring. Some of these include PureOne and Amsoil. There are others which I believe the jury is still out on IMO (SuperTech and Fram Tough Gaurd). I know many don't like Fram but the Tough Gaurd does quote the same efficiency on the box as some of these others as Supertech does. I have seen NO evidence anywhere that either the SuperTech or Fram Tough Gaurd as in the same league with M1, P1 or Amsoil.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I have never suggested a SuperTech is as good as a Mobil 1 filter. What I do think is that for anything but extreme driving conditions there is no need for anything better than the SuperTech and other $2 to $3 filters. Probably 99% or car owners are completely safe using these low priced filters.

    As for Fram's quality. I have not seen complaints about the filtering ability. The complaints are about the cardboard ends used in them rather than steel. If they had steel end plates on the filtering media they would probably be as good as the other moderately priced filters. People are just afraid of the cardboard failing and acting as a big bypass.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    I agree with you, fwatson. It well may be true that one, or even several filters are rated as "superior" in bigO's terms. The point is that there is a limit to just how good/great/superior a filter need be to do 100% of the job required to properly protect the engine of any particular vehicle. I am unaware of any that a Supertech will not protect-- except any vehicle for which Supertech does not list a filter, obviously.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    is all part of filtering ability because if it bypasses then it isn't filtering. Fram of course doesn't take that into account when they quote their ratings on their box. I guess that is what you are saying.

    As far as SuperTech or others performing as well as the High Eff. ones I mentioned, we really have to define "safe" in the phrase "99% of car owners are completely safe using". Of course they are not going to have a wreck because they are using an inferior filter. Are they going to replace more engine parts at earlier mileage (100k instead of 200k)? Well its my opinion that they will. The synthetic oil has more of an effect but I think the filter will play a part also. Everyone has an opinion and I am entitled to mine. Mine is supported by facts in the links I have shared. Do you have similar facts supporting your opinion? I haven't seen such.
  • I think you are forgetting this.
  • knapp3knapp3 Posts: 112
    As I've read the posts over the last few days, and the debates as to which filter is best, I started to think back to some input a filter media designer (tsjay) gave to this thread about a year ago. At one point someone asked him simply if there were any oil filters out there with truely inferior filters in them. In a word, his answer was "no". (msg. # 387). He also voiced reservation about extremely high efficient filters, like M1, noting that while they do no harm, he wondered if they really did any good. In a sense he is saying that there is no discernable difference in filter media. (those are my words, not his) For sake of debate, if you accept that for a moment, I wonder if we waste a lot of time focused on the wrong filter features when the other components like anti-drain back valves, bypass valves, can thickness, end cap construction, etc vary so much in quality and may affect oil and engine performance more than the filter itself?

    Just food for thought.

    fwatson: Sorry for the sharp reaction. I took you literally, not facitiously.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    and serve different purposes. ANY air filter will let fairly large particles go through it. It has to in order to maintain flow. Filtering is also important in the air stream but you MUST maintain good air flow and therefore the pores are necessarily larger. The oil filter then filters out many of the smaller particles that make it through the air filter and into the oil.

    I do have a question for someone. How exactly does the dirt from the air get into the oil? The air is supposed to go into and get mixed with the fuel before combustion. The oxygen then gets consumed and the nitrogen CO, CO2 and water go out the exhaust pipe. I would have thought that the dirt would also be blown out the exhaust. Does the pressure developed in the cylinders push the dirt through the seals to the oil? If it does, why doesn't the water not get into the oil more easily? Does it somehow get into the oil before it gets mixed into the gas?
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    I find it humorous that synthetic oil users like you constantly pound on the 'how much is your time worth' question yet seem to ignore same when spending mucho time researching the heck out of this stuff. fwatson already pointed that out, but I couldn't let it go by without mentioning it myself.

    You also said "Are they ['conventional' oil filter users] going to replace more engine parts at earlier mileage (100k instead of 200k)? Well its my opinion that they will...Everyone has an opinion and I am entitled to mine. Mine is supported by facts in the links I have shared."

    Perhaps you can summarize the findings of the many (apparently) helpful links you've posted over the past few days. I simply am not interested in spending the time to read all of this information any more. I'd rather just go out and change my oil! I find it more fun and more beneficial to my vehicle.

    While I don't doubt that these links conclude the Mobil 1 filter is 'better' than 'conventional' filters (really fuzzy to use these terms), do they conclude that these Mobil 1 filters will, to some degree of likelihood, prevent more repairs or delay repairs vs. 'conventional' filters? I find it hard to believe that anyone can state such things with a whole lot of scientific evidence to back it up.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    Your posts here are enjoyable and reasonable. I enjoy reading them. Keep up the good work. By the way, why are you paying so much for your oil ;) My per-quart cost averages well south of $1. Just received a $4.80 rebate check on a case of Citgo. That case ended up costing me < $9, before tax. Castrol GTX seems to be a good oil, but it's a bit pricey compared with other conventionals, IMO.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    In my opinion, the Mobil 1 oil filter is a waste of money for almost every single American vehicle owner. There, I said it. I don't think I've said it that clearly yet, and wanted to do so. I can't wait for the flames to flare up.
  • Some years back, I don't remember where but it was a reputable source, I believe a trade magazine, I read something very interesting on engine/automobile life.

    It said that a bigger determinant of engine life, even over oil change intervals, was how you drive. For example, driving 55mph is less hard on your car than drivng 75. Also, hard acceleration is hard on the car according to this article.

    Thought this was interesting because it is a fact seldom considered. We always look at oil type, filter type, and air filter type. Maybe how you drive really is more important than all of these factors. Remember that next time you stomp on the pedal.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    "...spending mucho time researching the heck out of this stuff... I simply am not interested in spending the time to read all of this information any more. I'd rather just go out and change my oil! I find it more fun and more beneficial to my vehicle."

    I have heard similar statements from high school dropouts. Where would we be today if Tomas Edison had felt that way? What if he should had said "I would rather fill my oil lamps than mess around with that stupid electricity stuff. Its not worth anything."

    As far as
     
    "do they conclude that these Mobil 1 filters will, to some degree of likelihood, prevent more repairs or delay repairs vs. 'conventional' filters?"

    #2228 has the article that says

    "British hydraulics research indicate that if solids contamination with particles larger than 5 micron (0.005 mm or 0.0002&#148;) is reduced from the range of 5,000 &#150; 10,000 particles per milliliter of oil to 160 &#150; 320 particles, the machine life is increased 5 times."

    and

    "It is clear that there is great benefit to be gained in having clean oil and that it may be well worth spending a lot of money to achieve it."

    Now, I am not saying that the mobil1 filtration specs are exactly as quoted here but that better filtration has been found to cause longer engine life. I am not looking for 5x (500%) extension in life. %50-100% increase in engine life would easily pay for this inexpensive filter.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Gee, I guess you missed the word "probably" that I put in front of this out of context quote ("99% of car owners are completely safe using"). It should read (PROBABLY 99% or car owners are completely safe using these low priced filters.)

    ==================================================
    Quote-bigorange30

    " we really have to define "safe" in the phrase "99% of car owners are completely safe using". Of course they are not going to have a wreck because they are using an inferior filter. Are they going to replace more engine parts at earlier mileage (100k instead of 200k)? Well its my opinion that they will. The synthetic oil has more of an effect but I think the filter will play a part also. Everyone has an opinion and I am entitled to mine. Mine is supported by facts in the links I have shared. Do you have similar facts supporting your opinion? I haven't seen such.

    ================================================

    You then state, and I quote it IN Context, ("Everyone has an opinion and I am entitled to mine.")

    I believe I am also entitled to an opinion, and if you use what I said IN context, you will see I was doing just that.

    Mine is supported by over 45 years of car ownership with NO engine failure due to either oil or oil filter failure while using many brands of "cheap" oil filters (yikes, including MANY Frams) and such dino oils as Quaker State, Pennzoil, Castrol etc. And I run my 3.8 V-6 Olds and my 223 I-6 Ford on -GASP- Supertech 30W year round. Perhaps I do go overboard with no justification, by using Castrol GTX Drive Hard in my Millenia. It has a relatively small displacement 2.5 V-6 that sounds much like an Indy car engine under hard use. In my possibly warped reasoning I just feel better running the Castrol as opposed to Supertech in it. That will cost me a few extra dollars over 100000 miles. But at least for now I will indulge myself by "pampering" my new car. Sure it's illogical, but so is a lot I have read here over the last say 100 posts or so.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    How many $ worth of engine repairs did you have? How much further would you have gone without repairs if you had used a different oil or filter. Those are the questions we are grappling with and it is very difficult to get a definite answer to them. We all have to do what we think is best.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    It seems to me that some very important coins are being left on the table by not considering the implications of off the shelf and seemingly after market technology holds for extending the life of engine, transmission and differential systems.

    I have run vehicles with conventional oil and NO filters and have gotten app 255k miles. with 3k oil changes. I have also run vehicles with synthetic oil and 15k oil changes to app 250 k miles also. So with the utilization of a 160 dollar after market oil bypass product (if installed by the OEM the cost would drop dramatically) you can look forward to roughly 2x longer life (or more) , the ability to use FAR LESS oil products, less depreciation. So to put some numbers to it say over 10 yrs (12-15k per year average) 120,000-15,0000 miles that is (in my case) 30k intervals, 4-5 oil changes vs 3k oil changes of 40-50.

    If only one person does this in the whole scheme of things: no big deal and more importantly who cares. Again using my example most folks would probably be waiting for my vehicle's with the 15k intervals to CRAP out DUE to oil related problems. If only so they can say SERVES HIM RIGHT!

    I have 37 years of experience and I would not like in the slightest to go back to the 3k oil change interval! Yes there was a point in time when you either changed it at 3k or stick a fork in it !!! I say categorically the best time is NOW !!

    If a billion cars do this world wide, it might be no big deal x a billion x 2x-10 times!!!
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    Excellent. Simply excellent. You've covered the topic. Nothing speaks as loudly as SUCCESS, and your success over 45 years stands as a formula for others. I might mention that my vehicle history seems rather parallel to yours! (:o]
  • barto4barto4 Posts: 1
    I currently use a Mobil-1 M1-206 (PF59) oil filter on a 4.6L. Can I use a Mobil-1 M1-203 (PF24) in its place? The M1-203 is .70 inch wider. Gaskets are the same size...

    M1-206, 2.921W x 4.526L, 13/16-16, ADBV, no-BPRV
    M1-203, 3.660W x 4.228L, 13/16-16, ADBV, no-BPRV

    Please let me know what you experts think...
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    I am not sure what advantage changing the filter would offer. The other thing is that GM will look for any reason to deny your engine warranty claims. I would stick to what the spec called for, unless the warranty station that you would bring your work, said they will cover it regardless.

    I have a LS6, 5.7L engine that uses an AC Delco PF-44 oil filter. (I am guessing smaller than yours and the engine probably tortures the oil and thus the filter more than the Northstar) Does the Northstar engine specify synthetic oil?
  • Now I have no doubt some of the folks on this board wear pocket protectors and had very few friends in High School. If you got everyone in a "real" room, we would probably look like Revenge of the Nerds Part 2. So why some criticize others for posting on this board and thinking about engine oil, I'll never know.

    I think our interest in engine oil actually stems from a kind of search for the Fountain of Youth.
    And I hate to say it, and I will deny this if you bring it up in front of my friends or at a party, but I think engine oil is a pretty fascinating topic.

    The bypass filter thing: it is too exotic for me. If I knew it would work and not have reliability problems, I would do it in a second.
  • zr2randozr2rando Posts: 391
    Certain basic fundamentals exist that cannot be denied. The purpose of synthetic oils is to extend the service life of the oil or to improve performance. We all have our own opinions of how well this has come about.
    One person's priority is to extend oil change interval, oil analysis is critical to verify this benefit, I would probably say this is most beneficial for engines that are intended to run for extended intervals with minimal shutdown time, therefore minimal time to run maintenance.
    These engines can have oil taps that allow samples to be taken while the engine is running, the main goal here is to keep engine running without downtime.
    Another person's priority is to improve the lubrication quality of the oil, therefore less engine wear over the expected life of the engine.
    Most vehicle engines can be shut down anytime and the oil changed whenever desired no problem...maybe synthetics lube better in the short term but most mfgrs don't give this credence so far.
    A high efficiency filter does a better job starting immediately but for a shorter period, a lower efficiency filter will flow better longer, but will have less efficiency at the beginning of it's life (and gain efficiency (and lose flow) as service life increases).
    Depending on one's priority, either method may be the way to go, application dictates procedure, synthetic oils have increased the options available to people that choose to take advantage of those options (and pay the added cost), high efficiency filters have also increased options for those who choose to pay for them. Not all of us keep a vehicle long enough to realize the benefit of added maintenance effort/cost, some of us do, and some of us REALLY get a kick out of studying this stuff long term! Kudos to them!!!
    Application dictates procedure, always has and keeps on doing it,,,,,new materials just increase options....
  • to check on how the ole K&N AIR filter is doing? I am probably going to do an analysis at the end of the month, I want to check on the K&N.

    What if just for fun, I sent in a sample of fresh Mobil 1 right out of the container?

    I was just joking above, I like this board and have learned much from you guys!
  • zr2randozr2rando Posts: 391
    If you are going to do an analysis for anything, you should do a baseline. There is no way to interpret the results unless they can be compared to previous tests, and to a virgin sample in the beginning.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    #2277

    "So why some criticize others for posting on this board and thinking about engine oil, I'll never know."

    Was that actually directed at me? Wasn't I the one defending the researching of oil related matters? I think I was the one being criticized for spending so much time researching these things by someone who thinks spending time under their car changing the oil is a better use of a person's time than trying to advance the science of lubrication and the public understanding of it.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I'll join in on the paranoia. I think both americanflag and bigorange30 are directing their criticism at me for daring to question that synthetic oil and Mobil 1 filters are the absolute answer to the worlds car lubrication problems

    On the other hand I take no offense to it because you are free to pursue the answer to your questions by whatever means you wish, and to discuss it on this forum which is obviously for that purpose.

    That said I will continue to believe that you are saving nothing by your efforts, especially if you include the time you invest in this quest, and that my cars will run as long and well on dino oil and ST filters as yours will.

    If you were discussing oil analysis for fleet operators I would feel you have a valid point. And guess what fleet operators do just that. They are called automobile manufacturers, and they have already run the wear tests and oil analysis' on each car they manufacture. They have also published it in a manual called an Owners Manual where it is available for all to see. I choose to follow their well studied recommendations, which fit perfectly with my 45 years experience as a multiple car owner doing my own maintenance. The recommendations in my Owners Manual do not allow for longer change intervals for use of synthetic oils. In fact there is no recommendation pro or con concerning it.

    A brief passage from my Millenia manual:

    "Recommended Oil-

    Oil container labels provide important information. The quality designation "SG", "SH", "SJ" or "ILSAC" must be on the label."

    Seeing as how they are the ones who hold the warranty on my car I will do as they recommend.

    Scheduled changes come at a maximum of 6 months or 7500 miles under Schedule 1, and 4 months or 5000 miles under Schedule 2. At 6 months by their required maintenance I have gone to the maximum regardless of milage.

    I suppose you could argue that the manufactures don't know what they are talking about, or that they have an interest in more oil being sold. I don't think either situation is true.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2282

    My OEM recommends Mobil One synthetic 5w-30 with AC Delco PF44 filters and up to 15,000 mile intervals. It is proven and safe and guess what, they hold the warranty card. MB, Porsche and BMW to name a few also do up to 15,000 mile intervals.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    "They are called automobile manufacturers, and they have already run the wear tests and oil analysis on each car they manufacture."

    What evidence do you have that this is true? I don't know if it is myself. It seems to me that if they really did this, then every car would have a different set of limits. Some would be 3k some would be 5k and some would be 7k. It seems to me that the intervals in the manuals are based on old oil technology because they don't know what oil you will use (SJ or SL, Chevron Supreme or Quaker State). It seems pretty much like CYA for them.

    My Infiniti service tech told me on Monday of this week that he "swears by Mobil1 synthetic and even uses it in his lawn mower". That's some important input for me and supports my choice. Many automakers do factory fill with synthetic (usually mobil1).

    As far as affecting the automobile warranty, any problems associated with oil will usually happen (unless you just never change your oil) many miles after the warranty has run out. Therefore, the oil manufacturer's warranty (over the life of the car for mobil1) is more valuable than the car's.
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