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Oil Filters, whose is best, and Why?

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2282

    There are two things that curiously, the conventional side seems to ignore:

    1. That they will not "extend" to the recommended limits of most cars and that is 7500 miles on conventional oil. (perhaps they intuitively don't have the confidence that the conventional product can "hack" the longer intervals)

    2. Also in the 3000 miles with conventional vs 15000 miles with synthetic intervals, the conventional oil change intervals COSTS MORE (per mile lubricated) (in the below example, 2.81 x more) and that is not counting the time value for oil changes! For example, if go to my dealer with oil change products in hand , they will charge me a standard 18 dollars and they DONT care if I give them synthetic or conventional!!

    So if you add in the labor charge you are at 90 dollars vs 18 dollars for the same lubrication per mile .006 cents vs .0012 cents So cost per 15,000 miles : 135 for conventional vs 48 synthetic. This is not to mention that the synthetic oil is superior in many ways other than cost.

    Another way to put it is: to buy a dollars $1.00 worth of lubrication, the coventional folks are willing to spend $2.81. In line with the question posed in #2286 why folks are willing to spend 2.81 for a dollar is even more confounding.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    What evidence do you have that any oil manufacturer warranty is of value? Previous posters have indicated that no one ever wins a case demanding that an oil manufacturer make good.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    #2285

    There are two things that, curiously, the synthetic side seems to ignore:

    1. That they can "exceed" the factory recommended limits of most cars and that is 7500 miles. (perhaps they intuitively have the confidence that the synthetic products can "handle" the longer intervals)

    2. Also in the 3000 miles with conventional vs 15000 miles with synthetic intervals, the synthetic oil change intervals ALLOW MORE room for condensation buildup or additive depletion) and that IS counting the time value for repairs! For example, if I sludge my engine up, they will charge the same for repairs and they DON'T care if I used synthetic or conventional!! (Notice that some Toyota "gell" cars used synthetic)

    Happy motoring,

    Jack
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    Maybe there hasn't ever been one where a synthetic oil was the cost of an engine failure?

    Throwing a statement out there like that without giving some details on an example is just worthless. There are always 2 sides to every case and you need to hear both sides.

    Does your oil manufacturer even give you a written guarantee?
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    "(perhaps they intuitively have the confidence that the synthetic products can "handle" the longer intervals)"

    No, that has been proven with many oil analyses.

    "the synthetic oil change intervals ALLOW MORE room for condensation buildup or additive depletion"

    No, many analyses, including mine have shown that the additive depletion, as shown by the TBN, does not happen near as quickly with synthetic as with dino. The metal doesn't happen as fast either. Those 2 factors as well as the fact that the base oil doesn't break down as quickly are the reasons that the oil will last longer in the engine.

    The Toyotas are a special case. There is a design flaw in those engines causing the oil to gel. People who changed at 3k intervals also get gelling.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    The Toyota sludge forum had a case where synthetic was used. Was synthetic the cause? No. Did it prevent the problem? No.

    Bob's site consistently details cases where a conventional or blend gives nearly as good, as good, or better oil analysis results compared to synthetic.

    My take. Most oils today (SJ and SL) are excellent. I think most conventional or blend would be FAR SUPERIOR at 3k compared to 15k synthetic. ruking ALWAYS uses that comparison and I believe it is baseless.

    Now, I have used and will continue to use synthetic in my cars. I just don't think it's the only way or the superior way. My oil usage:

    97 Toyota 4Runner. I use Schaefers #703. I used Mobil 1 for about 80k of its life. It's a pain to change the oil on this, so I go 8k on a drain. I believe the Scheaffer's #703 (a blend) will last as long as Mobil 1.

    86 BMW 528e. I use Schaefers #703. I used Mobil 1 for about 120k of its life. I started to use Mobil 1 early on because of noise at startup. I've also used BMW Synthetic and Schaeffer's #703 in it. All 3 seem to do an acceptable job.

    03 BMW X5. I'll use the BMW Synthetic which is the factory fill. Just makes sense.

    I don't have a problem with synthetic. But, I see no evidence that it has 5 times the life of conventional.

    Fire away,

    Jack
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2290

    The thing that is baseless is your assertion that 15k doesnt work!! Why would MB, BMW, Porsche and Corvette etc warranty their cars for 36k-50k miles with up to 15k intervals using synthetic? Seems real dumb ! (unless it worked?)They are putting their money where their mouth is!

    The fact of the matter is I have run a lot of miles on synthetic AND conventional oil. The real judge is 250k miles and beyond. I have done both with both oils. In the case of the conventional I felt compelled to change at 3k or less cause any more and you could have stuck a fork in it and it would have stood up. I also ran app 250k miles on 15k intervals with synthetic oil also. Is synthetic the be all to end all? Absolutely not, I have NEVER made that assertion. YOU may have made that assertion, but as you say: it is baseless!! If you read the post I do say that given the facts, conventional oil IS more expensive! Conventional oil if changed at 3k is FAR less convenient than changing synthetic at 15k. (5x's so!)

    Perhaps the key is to do oil analysis for both conventional and synthetic. The operative way to do it, is easy enough. On like cars run the oils to specific prearranged target values and check for miles . Or even run them to a mile specific and check for values.

    Most conventional folks (and to be fair most synthetic folks) don't do this because of the added expense. Being as how they pay 2.81 when a dollar will do, I can't say as I blame them. In either case you can use most of the 20 dollars analysis charge to do another oil change, one at 3k and one at 15k :) But I know that is not what you are talking about.

    Mobil One is WIDELY available, Is Shaeffers? I am using commonly available off the shelves stuff. So it would be interesting for you to put numbers to Shaeffer's instead of touting baseless opinions. To cut to the chase, get it down to per mile lubricated.

    So if you want to use Shaeffers, I have no problem with it. You also might want to include Amsoil and Redline etc. Again it translates to cost per mile lubricated. So show us the Shaeffer numbers or are you afraid they are BASELESS?
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    What do the Toyota cases have to do with it? No one ever said that synthetic will protect you against an engine flaw.

    Also, why do you use synthetic if you don't believe its superior? Isn't that a waste of money then?

    and

    "I think most conventional or blend would be FAR SUPERIOR at 3k compared to 15k synthetic."

    Where the heck does that come from? Many have proved that's just not true. Some even call for the 15k synthetic change in their manual. Now I would bet that interval has more current tests and research to support it than the 3k dino changes that most manuals advise.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    #2291

    The thing that is baseless is your assertion that 15k doesnt work!! Why would MB, BMW, Porsche and Corvette etc warranty their cars for 36k-50k miles with up to 15k intervals using synthetic? Seems real dumb ! (unless it worked?)
    - I don;t contend that 15k won't work in all cases. Many BMWs have 7qt. sumps on a 6 cylinder. I maintain that conventionals can do better than 3k. BTW, BMW has used oil change indicators since the early 80s. With conventional, they would normally suggest a 10 - 12k change with a 5 qt. sump. This douesn't translate to 5x for conventional. ie. 10k on 5 qt vs. 15k on 7qt.

    The fact of the matter is I have run a lot of miles on synthetic AND conventional oil. The real judge is 250k miles and beyond. I have done both with both oils. In the case of the conventional I felt compelled to change at 3k or less cause any more and you could have stuck a fork in it and it would have stood up. I also ran app 250k miles on 15k intervals with synthetic oil also. Is synthetic the be all to end all? Absolutely not, I have NEVER made that assertion. YOU may have made that assertion, but as you say: it is baseless!! If you read the post I do say that given the facts. Conventional oil IS more expensive! Conventional oil if changed at 3k is FAR less convenient than changing synthetic at 15k. (5x's so!)
    - We mostly agree here. I say that a decent conventional oil will go 6k and synthetic 8k to 15k depending on the oil, sump size, driving habits, etc.

    Perhaps the key is to do oil analysis for both conventional and synthetic. The operative way to do it, is easy enough. On like cars run the oils to specific prearranged target values and check for miles . Or even run them to a mile specific and check for values.
    - Agreed. But, very few of us do OA on a regular basis. I have vicariously used results on Bob's site to find oil change intervals with which I'm comforable.

    Most conventional folks (and to be fair most synthetic folks) don't do this because of the added expense. Being as how they pay 2.81 when a dollar will do, I can't say as I blame them.
    - OK, you say that enough and even I'll start believing it.

    Mobil One is WIDELY available Is Shaeffers? I am using commonly available off the shelves stuff. So it would be interesting for you to put numbers to Shaeffer's instead of touting baseless opinions. To cut to the chase, get it down to per mile lubricated.
    - Well, for me, yes. I e-mailed an order, received it 6 days later. Nice freash oil from St. Louis that was delivered to my door. I've plenty on my shelf. Beats going to WalMart.

    So if you want to use Shaeffers, I have no problem with it. You also might want to include Amsoil and Redline etc. Again it translates to cost per mile lubricated. So show us the Shaeffer numbers or are you afraid they are BASELESS?
    - Well, I submit that every one should use what suits them best. I'm not going to accuse people of wasting money if they don't follow my model. I don't have any numbers to post on Schaeffer's. Just that I used an 8k drain on Mobil 1 and an 8k drain on Schaeffer's. So, I'm putting my engine on the line.

    I not encouaging you to use Schaeffer's. I have no interest in the company, or have no desire for others to follow my pattern. I used to think Mobil 1 was the best for the buck. Now, I think Schaffer's, Pennzoil, Chevron, Castrol and others are certainly in the same league, dollar for dollar. I do like the fact that BMW synthetic and Schaeffer's #703 meet ACEA A3/B3. The ACEA A3/B3 is the spec that concerns me most, in particular HT/HS.

    Thanks,

    Jack
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    Why is the cost of Schaffers and shipping a state secret? You are entitled to your opinions, but you are REFUSING to base it on anything!! Being as how you only use it (Schaffers. syn blend or full conventional?) in 1/3 vehicles it is easy to see where you have your REAL bets at!

    You are aware of course that Schaeffers also has their FULL synthetic?

    As for accusing anyone of anything that is baseless. If folks want to pay more for a lesser product or vice versa, hey it is their nickel? I think most folks can deal with the facts. Again, I have no desire to "convert" anyone! If anything dividends and capital appreciation in oil stocks will help send my kids to B and Med School. So to all you folks that change at 3k, thank you very much! :)
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    Shouldn't we take this to the oil or synthetic oil board? Maybe the host will move the last 20 posts or so over to one of those boards.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2295

    I would agree that you are correct. The nexus is that oil filters go "hand and glove" with oil whether conventional or synthetic. The thing that becomes inadvertantly very clear is that filtering can go from a very "pure" condition 15-25k (some say beyond) per year bypass filtering with high quality synthetic oil, with topping off after just a filter change, to change oil and filter every 3k or less. The range is so great and options so varied that almost anyone can pick and chose any number of factors. The ultimate decision making factor seems to be both perceived and or real economic sense.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    #2294

    Why is the cost of Schaffers and shipping a state secret? You are entitled to your opinions, but you are REFUSING to base it on anything!! Being as how you only use it (Schaffers. syn blend or full conventional?) in 1/3 vehicles it is easy to see where you have your REAL bets at!
    - I paid $2.66 a quart for syn blend delivered to my garage door. I use it in 2 out of 3 vehicles at the moment.

    You are aware of course that Schaeffers also has their FULL synthetic?
    - Yes, but full syn seems to add little over the blend (~25% PAO)

    As for accusing anyone of anything that is baseless. If folks want to pay more for a lesser product or vice versa, hey it is their nickel? I think most folks can deal with the facts. Again, I have no desire to "convert" anyone! If anything dividends and capital appreciation in oil stocks will help send my kids to B and Med School. So to all you folks that change at 3k, thank you very much! :)

    Schaeffer's blend costs less than Mobil 1 and I change them at the same interval. For me, a blend costs less.

    I still like Mobil 1. Why did I switch? I like the moly in the Schaeffer's and the fact it meets ACEA A3/B3 specs. Of course, Mobil 1 now has moly, so they're catching up.

    Jack
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    #2298

    I don't know. But I don't know if Mobil 1 can either.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    So is the Schaffer blend able to do 15k? In your case app 2x more miles.

    In your case of changing at 8k, paying 2.66 per qt of Schaffers Blend including shipping makes sense over Mobil One @ 4 bucks. (.00233275 vs .0035. assuming 7qts and filter @ 2 per oil change) As an option using 1 dollar oil till 7500 miles (if it can be done or if folks are at comfort with this is even better @ .0012)

    Your cost for 15k is app 41.24, Schaffer blend vs 30., Mobil One. (or .0027493 vs .002.) Mobil One at the 15k interval however is app 27% cheaper per mile lubricated.
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    At least that's what Bobistheoilguy reports. My Wal-Mart doesn't seem to have it and its place on the shelf is mysteriously absent. May have to contact Champion Labs and find out what's going on.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    What is a ST2808 equivalent, or what does it fit?
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    SuperTech ST2808 is swappable with Castrol MaxPro 7317 and also Purolator L14457. Those may be wrong - just going from memory.

    csandste, do you mean 'recalled' in the sense that something was deemed wrong with the product? I suspect you mean 'out of stock' or 'no longer in production'? I have about 5 ST2808s in my garage - 1 or 2 of the old style and the rest the new box (not sure how different the filters actually are).
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    that using a blend is no better than using dino. There's an old say that "a chain is only as strong as its weakest link". The dino is more susceptable to degradation at lower temperatures. The engine operating temperatures are not going to be appreciably changed with 25% PAO in the oil. The dino is still breaking down. You may have SLIGHTLY better lubrication with a blend but you cannot extend your drain intervals past 3k. That's what I have heard but I don't have any facts. I would sure like to see some evidence of what you are saying if you have it joatmon.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    I understand why you use the 15k interval in your discussions - because that is the interval YOU use in YOUR vehicles. I don't question that it makes sense for you, or that you've had success with it. Are you asserting that 15k is a safe interval with Mobil 1 in many, most, x%, etc. of vehicle applications? There seem to be quite a few reports of oil analysis where Mobil 1 or other synthetic oils are worn out, by various measures, way before 15k miles.

    Conventional oil users seem to choose the 3k interval since it's the lowest safe denominator. I.e., almost every SL oil is very likely to last 3k miles in just about every application. Typical exceptions (very short trips, extreme temps, excessive idling, etc.) would apply. I don't think the corresponding safe synthetic interval is anywhere near 15k miles. For me, it would be, and was, more like 5-6k miles.

    Sure, conventional can often go further than 3k miles and synth further than 6k miles. But without analysis, the risk increases quite a bit as the interval increases.

    This is why I shake my head every time you conclude synthetic is cheaper to run. Not everybody uses 3k for conventional and 15k for synthetic! Finally, you recently discussed a different set of intervals. Granted, it was someone else who brought up the other intervals, but I was glad to see you actually discuss the cost-effectiveness of intervals besides 3k dino and 15k synth.

    For me, I buy my dino at < $1/qt. And not being interested in the cost, trouble, or bad impression (I'd be seen as a fanatic by my wife and family) of analysis, dino is much cheaper to run than synth since my comfortable synth change interval is only 2x dino.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    I don't use it, but my impression from reading Bob's board is the stuff is an excellent value. Most off-the-shelf blends seem to be 10% or less synthetic. According to folks who know way more about this stuff than me, 25% PAO IS a significant amount and it does explain, at least in part, the excellent performance of the Shaeffer's blend.

    bigorange, haven't you seen some of the discussion threads about Shaeffer's blend over on bob's board? I'm quite shocked to hear your thought that it can't be used past 3k miles. Seems pretty silly to me. Even conventional oil will do well past 3k in many cases.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2305

    I am glad that you got that 15k is not the "religious" high water mark! I have been known to deviate and change between 13.5k-14.5k :) If anything, I have advocated picking and choosing of ones "poison's" I have also been up front with the rationale's and cost 's. I have also said that even if you ignore the facts, ie cost more, cost less, can last longer, cant last longer etc that 3k and 15k can both take you to 250k. I have done it with BOTH kinds of oil synthetic AND conventional. Guarantees!!??? No NONE Nada Zippo with either conventional or synthetic! I also did not get the guaranteed catastrophic trouble that is threaten as repair hell at 250k for either synthetic or conventional oil either, for various and sundry violations :)

    In one respect, I think that Mobil One got the marketing message given their sales and their steadfast belief when they first came out and said 25k ! I mean even Mobil One is not immune to wanting folks to buy their products, ie at a faster interval!! So they got with the program! On their web site they say anywhere from 3-15k. http://www.prod.mobil1.com/index.jsp Why Synthetics, FAQ

    Do you really think Mobil One will call me to tell me not to change at 7500 K when I was used to doing 15k?

    Gee, I don't know if I am not communicating or what, or if 3k is such an emotional issue that folks really don't HEAR what I say. OEM's such as Porsche, BMW, Corvette, MB, use and recommend up to 15k intervals with synthetic AND back it with warranty !!!! In addition all of these and/or more, except Corvette provide free oil changes for the length of the warranty!! 4/50k (you pay for it of course but even on your nickel they recommend and stand behind up to 15k intervals. So if I was the "lone" nut case saying 15k, sure dismiss it.

    I am confused about the synthetic blend (25%) for Schaeffer's {@2.66 x 7qts = {18.62)}. You can mix Mobil One, (4 per) with Mobil conventional (1 per @ FOR 33% PAO x7qts= 2.31 qts x4= 9.24 and 1 x 4.69 qts= 4.69 plus 9.24=13.93) and get 33% PAO for {13.93} 8% more PAO and 25% cheaper. And to stay on track, for the difference of 4.69, I can buy two PF44 oil filters!! :)
  • at you, just the opposite. I cannot see someone on this board pointing a virtual finger at someone else on this board for being on this board talking about oil! Someone did that to you and I was saying it seemed pretty ridiculous.
  • an oil analysis is only $20, so I want to try one. What about a baseline? I just want to send this in, and watch especially for the level of Si (I use a K&N, want to see if the horror stories have any truth at all to them) and maybe water content. Do I need to spend the extra dough for a TBN if I am doing oil changes every 3,000? Any other advice you guys have on this? I am going to post the results here, I will put my money where my oil is!
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2309

    http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/oil-life.html.

    Above is a link to help you determine what it is you might want to achieve. It might also give some hint besides bobsoilguy as to the methodology.
  • knapp3knapp3 Posts: 112
    American, Blackstone usually treats the 1st sample on any car as the baseline. I've been pleased with their narratives, and recommendations. With the exception of detecting antifreeze, my impression is that they like to see several samples from the same car before giving any conclusive findings. That's understandable. If they find AF, they've been pretty quick to recommend followup. If the sample is taken during the 1st 10K miles on the car, expect high wear numbers and reassurance that they are due to new engine breakin. Still, it would be a baseline for you. If I recall, you're running M1 oil. I don't think I'd waste the $$$ on a TBN report with that few miles on the that oil.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    I admit bluedevils, I have not done alot of research on Shaeffers or on blends but I will. I certainly want to see some data. I would like to hear a plausible theory about how the dino can keep from breaking down at the same rate it does when there is no PAO present. Even when you have data, if you can't explain it, you are somewhat pigeonholed to one exact set of conditions. I look for mechanisms and theories that make sense before I buy into something.

    americanflag: I would not worry about doing a virgin sample of mobil1. That has been done and those results are widely available. I would also not worry about TBN since you will be at about 20-40% of the life of the oil.
  • in the oil analysis is indications of problems that might be related to the K&N air filter, such as high Si (which I understand can also be attributed to engine break-in) and perhaps water getting in since I have the air silencer removed (a cover for the air filter)? I would think with 3000 mile intervals and Mobil 1 everything else would look good, what do you think?

    After reading about the K&N air filter, I have come to believe the air filter is perhaps more important than the oil filter. That is why I want to be sure the K&N is doing its job.
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    To tell you truth, I think your wasting your time and money doing analysis at all at 3k. I think the numbers will be so small that you won't be able to tell much by them. However, if you want to check out the K&N, you will need a result with a paper filter at the same # of miles to compare it to.
  • malachy72malachy72 Posts: 325
    a motor oil thread a lot of posts. Where does one go for oil filter info?
  • bigorange30bigorange30 Posts: 1,091
    I tried to tell them but they're not listening to me.
  • edwardn1edwardn1 Posts: 103
    ...it just appears that Walmart is dropping the slower moving filters in the Supertech line to make room for an expanded Fram line. The discontinued supertechs have their price dropped to a dollar then they get pulled shortly thereafter. I bought 2 ST2870A filters for VW 1.7 engine one day for a buck apiece, next trip I looked and they were gone. AND YES THIS IS A FILTER THREAD, THERE ARE SEVERAL SPECIFICALLY FOR OIL AND GOOD ONES AT THAT WHERE YOU CAN POST OIL CONCERNS.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    ...this a filter thread? You mean to say the title of the topic is supposed to state the general content of the thread? Since when?(:o]
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I think the discussion of oil here makes sense as long as it pertains to the effect the FILTER has on the oil. There is always some spillover in any discussion.

    But I agree that lately this forum has been turned into a "Synthetic Oil #2" forum. Or possibly "Oil Analysis for Dummies"".

    As others have pointed out, the other two top forums under "Oil" are specifically for the discussion of oil, not filters.

    This forum has come to feel like the invasion of Mobil 1 products. Complete with "facts, figures and oil analysis results" to back up the supposed Mobil 1 superiority.

    You can't even state an opinion about the use of real dino oil and inexpensive filters without being challenged to "prove it with "facts, figures and oil analysis results".
  • knapp3knapp3 Posts: 112
  • armtdmarmtdm Posts: 2,057
    As far as affecting the automobile warranty, any problems associated with oil will usually happen (unless you just never change your oil) many miles after the warranty has run out. Therefore, the oil manufacturer's warranty (over the life of the car for mobil1) is more valuable than the car's.

    As wear is gradual and one can never prove oil was the culprit these warranties will never pay off
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2321

    I also agree with you. I think that is probably why most OEM's give this type of warranty, for some unknown reason it sounds like a long time. Really if you look at it a typical warranty, ie like 3 yr 36k.. So if you drive 20k a year your warranty is up in less than two years. Your warranty is also up in 3 yrs whether you drive 3-36k miles. Also it is widely know in the industry and less advertised by the oil manufacturers, that most wear is caused by lack of oil flow during the start up procedure (due to the fact that 99/100% of the cars do no have preoilers. This is NOT mitigated by whether you have conventional or synthetic. There is some evidence that synthetic oil may ever so slightly cut down the time that it takes the oil to migrate to the wearing areas, but you are well past the time and mileage of the warranty to make the oem pay for it anyway.
  • I also have a few of the new (black can) ST2808. I believe you said you have the old (blue can) and the new, would you look to see the difference in the two. I recall the bypass used to be visible at the top of the can on the blue one, but is nowhere to be seen in my new ones.

    If anyone has noticed this and has cut open the new (black) filter, please comment on if there is still a bypass in this filter.
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    Sure, I'll see what I can see visually. But even though they are 'only' $2 filters, I'm not cutting them open to learn more!

    Should the bypass valve be readily identifiable even for someone, such as me, who has absolutely no idea what to look for?

    I'll have to keep my eyes peeled for the ST2808 on my next trips to local Wal-Marts. It seems odd that Wal-Mart would revise the filter and packaging but choose to discontinue the filter's production/sale. I do recall not seeing the ST2808 on a recent trip to Wallyville, so maybe they are indeed on the way out.
  • If you look into the large center hole of the blue (old) one, you will see a metal cap/spring in the top of the can. It will be missing on the black one.

    I hope they haven't gone to virtual bypass valves. LOL
  • bluedevilsbluedevils Posts: 2,554
    The old (blue) one has a metal spring in the 'top' of the can (the closed end of the can). The black one has no such spring.
  • ruking1ruking1 Posts: 19,826
    #2297

    Schaeffer's Blend can be had from the web site: www.schaefferoil.com for 4.50 per qt. MIN of 12 quarts not including UPS shipping.

    Based on that, the use of Schaeffer's Blend costs MORE than Mobil One. If you add in the UPS shipping it costs still more! Also in more than one place they indicate that the 5w-30 product meets the older SJ standard. The SL standard was not mentioned.

    Perhaps I didn't give the secret club sign or signal when I perused the site. :}
  • zr2randozr2rando Posts: 391
    Look into the hole in the top of the filter, see some small holes in the opposite end. If the black filter has a bypass the oil goes around the outside of the cartridge and then pushes up from the bottom and comes back in through those small holes, and then goes to the motor through the main outlet hole that you are looking through.
    Cut it up, you'll see how it's made....not a great design in my opinion.
    Rando
    The BOBISTHEOILGUY oil filter page has a thread with some good pictures buy the way...

    http://members.aol.com/phundotcom/oil.htm

    A fellow called Patman took some good pics.
  • Aren't these forums a great place for research?

    Zr2rando: I saw that link on Bob's yesterday and I was afraid that is what had happened to my beloved ST2808. I agree with you, this is an inferior design to what it used to be. And there are much better bypasses available, such as the one used on the ST3950.

    They gave us the better filtration media at the cost of a cheaper bypass valve.
  • deminindeminin Posts: 214
    Has anyone heard of a brand called WIX?? We stopped at a little resteraunt in the country a few days ago, and there were a couple of locals sitting behind us talking about their tractors. I couldn't help overhearing them say that they wouldn't use anything but a wix filter in ther tractors. Is this a Heavy Duty brand made just for diesel farm equipment, or do they also make stuff for cars? Might be worth checking into.
  • knapp3knapp3 Posts: 112
    It's a well made and well regarded filter. You can buy others with better filtration, but few, if any, that are made better than a Wix. Solid bypass, anti-drain design, shell thickness and so on. Also sold under the NAPA, Carquest and Kmart Penski or Castrol name, if you can still find any on a Kmart clearance rack.
  • vidtechvidtech Posts: 212
    i have cut open the new supertech's.i am weary of the design of the "valve".in order for it to work,the element would have to partially collapse to allow the oil to go thru those little holes on the endcap as the stamped tension spring sits over those bypass holes.the way i see it once it bypasses,it will always bypass since there is no spring loaded valve opening to close up.you get what you pay for,you get a decent filter but do not leave it on for extended periods where it will start to bypass once that happens you got some problems.
  • zr2randozr2rando Posts: 391
    Those ST filters that have internal bypasses will need to be able to bypass during cold starts even when they are new, and bypass more often as they get full of debris...
    Personally, I'd use a different brand if the model I used required the internal bypass (My Nissan truck in my case I use the Motorcraft (purolator clone). I do use the non bypass version that my Chevy trucks use (ST3980).
  • ST2827 because it's a non-bypass filter, but will search for a new replacement for my Accord. I wish the OEM Filtech Honda filter was easily ordered online. You never know if you'll get that one or the Fram Honda filter when you order.

    Their building a Honda dealership in my town currently, so before long I'll have easy access to OEM parts. Maybe they'll carry the Filtech filter.
  • fleetwoodsimcafleetwoodsimca Posts: 1,518
    I don't have a beef with the ST S-2 filter, catalogued for the Mercury Mountaineer V8 (2002). I have an S-2 on the vehicle at present. Looking in the center hole, I do not readily see the pathway for bypass. I did have a chance, while recently at Walmart, to look at a tempting Motorcraft FL 820S, that (to the best of my ability to discern) is appropriate for the Mountaineer. The anti-drainback valve and bypass valve are apparent, and they and the other general features of the filter are very attractive. So much so, in fact, that I now have purchased 4 of them and put them on my shelf. They cost $2.97 each. They look like a bargain, and Ford won't be able say I'm using a shoddy brand of filter!
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