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SUV vs Minivans
I'd be very interested to get people's opinions about benefits/downsides to a mini van vs. SUV, particularly for families of different sizes. Probably should cross-reference this with the Minivan Board, but I don't know how to do that. Anyone able to link this to the Minivan Board?
Some ideas/questions: third rows in SUVs-- how tolerable is it, after a while, having kids have to jump over seats to get back there? Drivability: many say "Mini vans drive better than SUVs" -- given the new SUVs out there, how true is this still? etc...
Some ideas/questions: third rows in SUVs-- how tolerable is it, after a while, having kids have to jump over seats to get back there? Drivability: many say "Mini vans drive better than SUVs" -- given the new SUVs out there, how true is this still? etc...
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My wife and I looked at the Honda Odyssey, Toyota Sienna, and Mazda MPV but ultimately decided we didn't want a minivan (looks and no AWD).
Then we looked at the Acura MDX, Mercedes ML320, Mercury Mountaineer, and Dodge Durango. All had their advantages and disadvantes and we liked each for different reasons. Well, to cut to the chase, we finally decided on the Buick Rendezvous.
The Buick is a quiet, comfortable vehicle that I hesitantly describe as 50% minivan / 50% SUV.
It does seat seven adults (the 3rd row seat is comfortable enough for people under 6'0" tall) but there is limited storage with the 3rd row seat up. With the 3rd row folded down (it folds flat), you can comfortably seat five adults and it has terrific cargo capacity.
It is available with AWD and can be equipped with every bell and whistle imaginable (leather, OnStar, rear sonar parking, head up display, memory seats/mirrors, heated seats, programmable door locks, etc.). By the way, build quality and fit and finish are also excellent.
It's not for everyone (some think it's a little lacking in horsepower) but, considering what you're looking for, I think it is worth strong consideration.
If you like, check out the Rendezvous forum or owner's club here at Edmunds.com for some more insights.
skimmel - When traveling with five, we put 3 in the middle row and keep the 3rd row folded down. We have found that, even with 2 child seats in the middle row, there is ample room in between for a 3rd adult. Seating six with cargo is where you must be creative! It involves placing cargo on the floor and on an unoccupied seat (outboard 3rd row) and then seating 3 in the 2nd row and 1 in the 3rd row. You can carry everything comfortably, but it is not as convenient as a minivan.
This is where we made the trade-off. A little less convenience for more style, luxury, and All Wheel Drive.
aggie - I agree with your basic opinion. I do think the front is MUCH better looking than the Aztek, and also resembles the RAV4 a little. It is the weird headlights that give it that look. I guess it's personal...I like the looks just fine, though admittedly, not quite as well as the Mountaineer. As for the 3rd row, I found that it is the biggest and most comfortable of all the three row SUV's...but not as roomy as a minivan. I will say that my wife and I loved the Mountaineer and think it is easily as nice as the Buick, for different reasons. We gave the nod to Buick because it was several thousand dollars cheaper (with my discounts) and had a lot more luxury options for the money. If the two had been even-money, I may have gone with the Merc instead. I disagree with your impression of build quality (interior plastic). The Merc is no better than the Buick (although, the fake aluminum dash dresses up the Merc nicely). The Buick also has a much more sedan-like ride.
BTW, what was the interior color of the Buick you saw? If you saw a tan one, you owe it to yourself to see the grey interior. IMO, it looks much better...and comparable to the Merc.
Finally, the Buick is a minivan in SUV clothing. The Merc is a pick-up truck in SUV clothing.
Had a 92 Explorer, 94 Jeep GC, 96 Tahoe, and a 98 Expedition. I was pretty much "why in the world didn't somebody think of this thing before" when I bought the Explorer. Never a problem, plenty big, well finished, but TERRIBLE ride. Jeep was very fun to drive, no problems, better ride although "jiggly", and too small made smaller by the spare in the back. Tahoe was big, beefy, quick, and an old GM design that showed it's age with the worst set of brakes I've ever experienced. Expedition I liked best of all....but it was a bit too tall and got horrible gas milage.
I rarely carry more than 4 passengers in the Sienna....mostly just me and my wife. We got a rare West Texas 8" snow last winter. It did great which is my experience with most FWD cars. I ought to love my Toyota. Aside from a few rattles I finally managed to fix, it has been flawless since I bought it in October; however, Toyota has a way of dumbing-down their cars 'til they have no personality. It does everything well, but nothing so well you fall in love.
The only thing you'll miss out on is AWD, unless you go with Chrysler. I think the 2002's are quite attractive...inside and out.
Like my Expedition, I took out the rear seats in the Sienna (never carry that many people) and I've got a fair sized cargo area + room for four passengers. On a day to day basis the arrangement on an SUV is best. Maybe Honda has it figured out with their fold-away rear seats.
Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Have you considered the 2002 minivans from GM scheduled to come out shortly (i.e., Chevy Venture, Pontiac Montana, Oldsmobile Silhouette)? My wife and I recently got a 2001 Olds Silhouette Premiere and love it. It has comfortable seating for up to seven adults (driver plus front passenger, second row captain's chairs, third row bench). When not hauling seven, the rear seat folds flat forward and provides huge storage capacity. We also got the tow package (oil/trans cooler, heavy duty radiator, bigger brakes) with a hitch that allows us tow small loads (up to 3,500 lbs). We have dual power sliding doors (a nice luxury) and the Premiere package with VCP/video display, rear compressor/air shocks, traction control (for those rare winter snows), leather, heated seats, rear park aid, etc. etc. It's definitely our luxury vehicle.
I say the 2002's because I noted that AWD is a must for you. My understanding is the GM vehicles will have AWD as an option for 2002. Seems like you could have the AWD and room you're looking for combined with the ease of driving and parking your wife is seeking. BTW - my wife who has never driven anything bigger than my Camaro (hates it), likes the minivan's maneuverability. With the rear parking aid, she actually enjoys parking the minivan!
Just some food for thought.
ps: price and gas mileage on the GM's should also be vastly superior to a similarly equipped SUV.
/java
While we had children less than 2 years old, the mini-van was by far the best choice for us.. There's just alot of 'stuff' to haul around day to day, and especially on trips, (strollers, high-chairs, portable cribs, diaper bags, etc..)
My wife and I just didn't like this particular Windstar (99 LX) as it developed spark knock (for the third time), the interior had some rattles (again), and the interior also an electrical problem where the interior lights would sometimes blink off/on, and an oil leak (repaired under warranty).. It also didn't have some features that we should have gotten (thats my fault for buying this van, no adjustable seats, no cd-player), and also found some quirks that I didn't like non-factory dealer installed keyless remote entry locked doors upon startup rather than 5mph, would not allow the vehicle to start unless you press the unlock on the fob etc.. Ok, enough excuses, we just didn't like it..
This was our second mini-van, as we origionally had a 95 Windstar, which had no problems but we wanted 4 doors in late 98 because of our 2nd child.
I also like to keep vehicles for a long time if possible (over 100k miles, 7+ years), but wasn't sure the current van was up to the task.. Unlike many previous Fords we've owned that are still running with 220k miles on them.
So I started looking into the options.. All of the other mini-vans were nice, such as the Honda Odyessey, Dodge Caravan etc, but to get the the van that we would like, the cost was in the 28k range.. ouch.. So I told the wife, the Windstar is just fine, everything will get fixed under warranty and we'll just drive it, theres nothing wrong with it...
Then she mentioned, have you looked into the SUV's? Well, my first thought is that SUV's are generally more expensive than mini-vans and that they generally have less storage space that mini-vans.. The storage space was not as much of an issue, as the kids are over 2 and 5, there's alot less to pack for trips now.. So we started by looking only at the mid-size SUV's (like Explorers, Blazers etc). I was suprised to see they the cost for these was in the same range as a new mini-van, but still more than we wanted to pay..
Then we looked at the Escape (a mini-suv).. The front and rear seat room was the same as the larger SUV's, just the cargo area was shortened. Then we took it for a drive (3.0L 4x2).. WOW.. It handled much better than any of the mini-vans we drove and had ALOT more acceleration. And it gets better MPG's than most mini-vans as well. The ride was 'firm' but not jolting as I expected. Mostly because it weighs alot less than a minivan.. It had all of the features and options we wanted, and all for around 20k..
We got a fair price for the van, and paid a few hundred over invoice for the Escape and we drove it home..
The kids love it, the wife loves it, and I'm extremely pleased with it..
The only thing we're really giving up? On long trips I have to use the roof rack for 1 or 2 bags.. I never had to use the roof rack with the mini-van..
Congrats on not buying an Expedition/Yukon type vehicle. There are too many in your position who have made that mistake.
Wow, what a trial by fire.
My wife and I were both very impressed with the MDX and strongly considered it when we were shopping for our SUV.
It sounds like you picked the best vehicle for your needs and are happy with your choice. Enjoy!
For your needs, this one is pretty much a no-brainer. Big SUVs have their place in this world, but carting around children isn't their strong suit. Tell your wife to get over it - the car doesn't make the person.
Here's what I would suggest. Make her drive the two vehicles back-to-back (make her park them, too) and then have her look you in the eye and tell you which one she would rather drive on a daily basis. I am confident that the Odyssey will win - and given the lower price, so will you.
The new 2002 Ody has changed everything. The new 2002 Ody put the best combination of both 2001 Ody and 2001 MDX. The new 2002 Ody added MDX's 240-hp 3.5 liter SOHC 24-valve V-6 engine, it also added MDX's 5-speed automatic transmission. So this 2002 Ody has the nice 2001 Ody look (interior and exterior) but with MDX's strong body. Don't even mention leather seats and DVD entertainment system, and best of all, you're not paying the $38,000 MDX price.
If you're looking for a vehicle puts the best of both world, 2002 Ody is the car you want to own.
According to this review, http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/romans/01.acura.mdx.fd.html , the 2001 MDX shares about 12 percent of the 2001 Odyssey's architecture. MDX was built on Ody's platform. Now after Ody borrowed MDX's engine and transmission, I bet both 2002 vehicles would share about 50% of each other.
The downsides of minivans are limited trailer towing capability (about 3500#) and limited off-road ability. Those 4WD systems on minivans do not make them into Hummers.
Personally, my family has had a FWD minivan and a sport sedan as our 2 vehicles since the modern minivans first came out in the mid '80's. I have found that a nice mix as I can grab a set of keys appropriate to what I need (or want!) to do that day. I have never needed the off-road capability of an SUV, and have found the minivan's FWD with traction control to be quite adequate for most all Midwestern suburban winter driving. On those few days when I got my sedan stuck in deeper snow in my driveway, I was able to get the minivan out & moving with its higher ground clearance. The penalty in weight, complexity, and handling with 4WD systems in the minivans does not seem to be a worthwhile trade-off for my driving needs.
Drew
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Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket & Accessories message boards
Good luck.
The minivan will get better mileage and less emissions. The minivan will have more seating flexibility, and easier access to rear rows. The Minivan will have larger sliding doors and a lower step-in height making loading and unloading easier. The minivan will have better handling and braking. According the the IIHS, Vans over 4000 lbs (Includes Odyssey, Windstar, Grand Caravan etc) are in the best group for lowest death rates ( http://www.iihs.org/sr_ddr/sr3507_t1.htm ). The minivan will have lower tendency to rollover. Odyssey and Windstar also get top crash ratings across the board, something matched by very few SUVs of any size. The minivan will also be less hazardous to other vehicles in a crash, as the unibody design tends to crush to absorb energy instead of acting like a battering ram. Similarly equipped, minivans tend to be a bit less expensive, though this can vary depending on trim level.
On the other hand, the SUV will be much better for towing. With 4WD, it will also be much better for serious off-roading and very severe weather. The also don't have the family "image" of a minivan. These are not small considerations, especially if you must do heavy towing or off-roading on a regular basis. In those cases, a minivan is probably not an option.
Again, there are exceptions, I only state some generalizations for sake of debate. Which is right for you depends mostly on your specific needs.
Prior to purchasing our 2001 AWD Chrysler T&C, we test drove large SUVs. We have two kids in car seats, but with their friends and the grandparents and all that, functional seating for 4 rear passengers was always a requirement.
Though we enjoyed the Suburban, Sequoia, Tahoe etc. the choice for an AWD minivan was easy. Price and operating costs were factors, but so was ease of access and configurability of the interior for hauling all the kids' stuff.
The minivans are far more flexible. We go to downtown Seattle regularly, and my wife found parking the Suburban to be a hassle. In addition, they don't always fit into newer parking garages.
Re: storage, we easily fit our stroller and ten grocery bags behind the third seat. If you need more space, consider getting a roof box--they are wonderful and affordable.
Another option that I have seen larger families go for is a full-size commercial-style van. They aren't sexy, but they are sure functional and not pricey.
Where are the high performance minivans?
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Two neighbors have Suburban and Excursion. The Excursion is just too big and needs an IV for gas (single digit gas mileage). The Suburban has great horizontal storage behind 3rd seat as opposed to Odyssey's vertical storage. In fact the Surburban seems "horizontal" compared to the Odyssey. Gas mileage is poor but this is a truck that can do truck stuff like towing and off-road rambling. However it costs at least $10k more than any minivan. We are always tempted by Suburbans, but will put off owning one until the children are older (say 6+ years of age).
Odyessy is a well designed minivan but has had problems with transmission (check out Odyessy Problems forum)and power doors (very nice at protecting little hands and fingers). But it is a minivan. If you need a van then buy a 2002 and get extended warranty.
Suburban is refined but it is still a truck. If you need a truck for hauling and tough winter weather then buy a Suburban.
PS - There are other minivans and SUVs but none in my opinion are the complete package for a young family of 6 like the Odyssey and Suburban.
mom4kids
If you really need to carry six people AND a lot of stuff, and if you feel
your Windstar is not nearly large enough, you will have to get a
Suburban / Expedition / full size van. No minivan offers significantly more
room than a Windstar. I recently bought a minivan (2 weeks ago) and
I looked at them all. The Honda Oddy is the largest, the rear storage area
begind the third seat is bigger than the Windstar, but not that much
larger. You can easily fit two rows of paper grocery bags back there,
probably about 10 bags total. If that's not enough for you, you will need
the larger SUV.
The disadvantage of the SUV is in access to the third seat. I don't think
kids under 10 would really be able to do that alone. You have to flip
the seat pan forwards, then tumble the seat back down. If you have a
car seat there - forget about it. So if you have car seats in the third
seat, then YOU have to crawl back there each time the kids gets in
and out. With a minivan you open the door, and there is relatively easy
access to the third row seat. I have three kids, 7, 4, and 7 months. The
seven year old walks to the third row and belts herself in. The 4 year old
sits behind the passenger seats. She gets in the seat herself but I need
to do the buckle. I can reach the buckle without climbing in. The baby sits
behind the driver and I can easily put him in the seat.
I test drove a Tahoe and I loved it. The problem was that with yound
kids the seating arrangement doesn't work.
Good luck,
Barry
Is there a real definition somewhere?
I love having a Suburban. It doubles as a pick up truck for us, carries 8 people, and a ton of cargo. We spent a week camping in Yosemite last Summer and were able to get everything in, or on, the Suburban, including five bicycles, one on top, four on a hitch mounted carrier. Last week my husband and I brought home a small freezer, a 32- inch television, and a couple of weeks worth of groceries without even removing the seats, although we did tumble the third seat forward.
I am very glad we didn't buy the Odyssey we had put the deposit down on. It was nice, but we would have needed a cargo trailer to go on any vacations, and we don't have room to park a trailer where we live.
I have to add... many of my friends with mini vans have husbands who drive trucks. That really makes a difference. A truck with a crew cab, or even just an extended cab, can take a family of five and a lot of stuff just about anywhere. That wasn't an option for us because of the family size ( none of the kids are big enough to sit up front even if the truck could seat six), and the fact that with my husband doing about 50% more driving than I do, it makes sense for him to drive an economical car.
You have to make a decision based on your family's needs, not the recommendations of others with different needs.
I'm not sure that getting car seats in and out of the third seat in any car is really a breeze. That is just something that has to be put up with for a few years. There are other more important (imho) factors to consider.