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Comments
Our growing family is about to contend with the SUV vs. Minivan vs. ??? question. We've got three small children (4.5 yrs, 2 yrs, 7 mos) that we've been able to fit safely in one row of our wagon; however, the baby is quickly outgrowing the bucket infant seat, and I'm at a loss to find three car seats that will fit in one row.
For us, stability control and all-wheel drive are requirements, which means many more SUV options than minivan options. But, access to the third row in anything but a minivan is problematic. Plus, we might not be done with the whole baby making thing (where do they come from?).
We've already got an AWD Sienna that my wife loves, but the mileage is abysmal. I love the ease of access (we put two in the 3rd row and keep one second row seat flipped up all the time), but I can't help thinking we'll get a better deal on a large SUV (Pilot, Tahoe, etc.). (For a variety of reasons, we need two cars that can accommodate all the children).
Thoughts? Suggestions?
To me the Ford Expedition had easy third row access.
On the other hand, the Pilot is wider than the Freestyle, so you could put all three carseats in the 2nd row, but it would be tight. I have put 3 carseats (infant, & two boosters) in the 2nd row of the Freestyle and it was really tight, but they fit.
I've looked at the Freestyle, but the lack of stability control is a problem for me. Frankly, I'm surprised they didn't include it.
The flippable 2nd row seats are definitely a plus, which is why I was interested in it. The Tahoe has a similar apapproach.It's too bad the Pilot and other SUVs don't do the same thing.
http://www.automotive.com/2006/12/ford/freestyle/safety/index.html
Freestyle:
5 star rating: Driver's & Passenger's Side, Front & Rear occupant
4 star rating: Rollover Resistance
http://www.automotive.com/2006/12/chevrolet/tahoe/safety/index.html
Tahoe:
4 Star rating: Drivers & Passenger's Side (Front & Rear not tested)
3 Star rating: Rollover Resistance
Of course, if you are thinking about four than you might be staring squarely at a minivan.
More weight, bigger engine tuned for torque and worse aerodynamics. If you have a big shortfall from EPA with your Sienna, it's a reasonable bet you'd get a similar shortfall from the lower EPA on a big 4WD SUV.
How about an AWD Highlander Hybrid? The third row is small, but fine for a child in a booster or an older kid out of a booster. Other than the small third row, it's a very nice vehicle for the same price as a high end Sienna or an entry level full size SUV. Ease of 3rd row access isn't great for an adult, but kids can manage. It has good safety ratings and stability control is standard.
The Mazda5 comes to mind also, but it doesn't yet have complete NHTSA/IIHS crash test results and no stability control. The crash results in Japan and Europe are good, though. Maybe for 2007...
I'm afraid I'm destined for another AWD Sienna. I've heard that a hybrid version is in the works for 2007, so perhaps I'll just have to hold out a little longer. Thanks for all the advice!
I still can't understand the fascination with stability control that everyone seems to "need". The Freetsyle has one of the highest ratings as far as rollover and impact. Has the Volvo AWD system with traction control.
Is a large family vehicle that should never need to be driven at high rates of speed around corners.....and yet....the "need" for stability control.
The Freetsyle has a seating option for individual seats in the second row, and a walk though to the third row. I might add that the third row is considered one of the best in the industry as far as roominess goes.
"One of the most comprehensive studies on electronic stability control to date has found that the relatively new technology can reduce the odds of fatal rollovers by 73 percent in SUVs and 40 percent in passenger cars."
Study: Electronic Stability Control Is a Lifesaver in Rollovers (Inside Line)
A slightly newer IIHS study says:
"Many single-vehicle crashes involve rolling over, and ESC effectiveness in preventing rollovers is even more dramatic. It reduces the risk of fatal single-vehicle rollovers of SUVs by 80 percent, 77 percent for cars."
Electronic Stability Control Could Prevent Nearly One-Third of all Fatal Crashes (The Woman Motorist)
Just so you won't feel like a voice in the wilderness: :shades:
Stability Control: Either Save My Life or Stay Out of the Way
Steve, Host
$300 is tolerable; when you start pushing $800, I think most people would rather have NAV or a DVD system installed instead. :shades:
Steve, Host
Is it necessary? No. Does it improve safety? Many studies show it significantly reduces accidents.
Of course, just having it as a feature isn't enough; as others have pointed out, a car with a poor safety rating and stability control probably isn't safer than a car without stability control but with an excellent safety rating.
But who says those are the only choices? I'll take a car with both stability control AND an excellent safety rating. These days, you can find plenty of cars with both, and the price adder for stability control should drop quickly as ESC is adopted in more platforms.
"One of the most comprehensive studies on electronic stability control to date has found that the relatively new technology can reduce the odds of fatal rollovers by 73 percent in SUVs and 40 percent in passenger cars."
hmmm...anything will improve an SUVs rollover statistic.
:-)
40 percent passenger cars? I wonder what percentage of those "cars" are family cars? Aren't Corvettes, Mustangs, and Porches, all "cars"?
:-)
Butto say that it's a necessity is hog wash. :-)
Tons of things aren't necessities. DVD systems, 300hp engines, leather seats, alloy wheels, you name it. For those concerned about safety, things like stability control and side curtain airbags are as close to a necessity as you can get. If you're more concerned about acceleration and cornering ability, then your necessities are going to be much different compared to those mostly concerned about keeping their families safe.
I wanted full air bags, stability control and excellent acceleration, handling and braking all for safety reasons. Sometimes you need to accelerate to avoid an accident, sometimes you need to stop and sometimes you need to dodge. Sometimes it may be beyond your control.
For all of these reasons I chose an Odyssey EX-L. Having the best mileage does not hurt either.
I consider an SUV as being able to tow large objects...Do you need to tow greater than 2000 lbs? If not than perhaps you could consider the Freestyle.
Actually you can get an Odyssey LX for $25K.
All Odysseys have the same powertrane (more or less) and the same safety features.
Toyota Sienna AWD - What about the "fast-wearing" run-flat tires that Consumer Reports bags on? Are AWD models hard to locate and negotiate on?
Honda Pilot - Concerned about usability of 3rd row and marginal cargo space behind it
Chevy Tahoe - Ditto the Pilot concerns and add gas mileage and reliability of redesigned model as concerns.
Ford Freestyle - Weak engine and reliability concerns.
Durango/Explorer/Expedition, etc - not at the top of my list due to reliability and fuel economy concerns.
Your thoughts and other ideas are appreciated.
Weak engine in the Freestyle.....hee hee
Tell you what...take one for a test drive. Take it on the highway and gte up to about 60 mph and then drop the hammer. :-)
Besides that, the 0-60 times are in the mid 8 seconds....better than vehicles that have much larger and more powerful engines.
As far as reliability, that could be a viable concern with the Freestyle, but for the most part, the majority of the problematice cars were the early release models.
The big problem you might have with the Freestyle is the pathetic technical support of the Ford dealerships. It seems the technicians are clueless when it comes to the Freestyle. Although I think some of that stems from the early assumptions that the Freestyle was being considered to be dropped....perhaps Ford dragged their feet when considering training their technicians. Now that the Freetsyles future is solidified, you should see better technician training.
Any advice would be great
vicenac, "Ford Freestyle" #6293, 22 Jun 2006 10:51 am
Steve, Host
Honestly, I wouldn't let this make it your decision maker - the comfort is really not much different in those like I said before.
If you want to know which I would recommend - it would be the Odyssey SINCE you have three kids. I HIGHLY recommend NOT putting kids in the third row of a Pilot. Again, I highly recommend NOT putting kids in the third row of a Pilot. Besides it not being comfortable, it isn't safe. Many members will probably dis-agree with me saying the third row in a Pilot is not comfortable. But my opinion is that it is, and that the third row seat is hardly useable and balony for LONGER trips, particulary.
The Odyssey is safe in third row, as well as much more comfortable.
Think about it.
I thought that I had left the parking brake on in the truck. The "pick up" (no pun intended) of the pick up vs. the van bore no comparison. The van is eager to go and jumps off the line. The truck was a total dog. I am sure that a similarly powered Suburban, Tahoe, Yukon etc. would be even worse than this truck. This experience was a real eye opener to the performance of the Odyssey vs. V8 powered American vehicles. Something else to think about when comparing SUV's and Vans in addition to the gas mileage and handling.
Pilot Vs Odyssey
I'd recommend the Pilot. The 3rd row is safe. Its actually one of the only SUV's to be recommended in terms of safety. Also the second row slides fore and aft as well as reclines so comfort is a +. In the 3rd row, a crash of 40 mph shouldn't even intrude into the 3rd row. Also new for 2006 are the side curtain airbags. The 3row is 60/40 and reclines so find ing passenger hauling or cargo hauling should be no problem. Also but Pilot and Odyssey have VDM (deactivates extra cylinders to increase MPG during cruising and moderate acceleration). There are 16 cubic feet of storage in the pilot behind the 3rd row so family towing shouldn't be a problem.
Pilot traveling tip
For families with 3 kids, i say have two share the middle and one sit in the 3rd. While in the 3rd you can fold down either the 60 or 40 (personally i say keep the 60 so they can stretch out by laying across the 60 when tired) and you'll have plenty of suitcase space. And with 8 headrests, you'll have plenty of protection if crash happens. The +1 seat in the odyssey isn't very comfortable. The same can be said about sitting on the pilots armrest. I'd say both vehicles are good for families of 6 or 7 but not 8
ps, when driving, you barely notice the pilots seatbelts that dangle from the roof
verdict: tall families, Odyssey. Families that need AWD, Pilot. Its an equal tie; a toss up!?
-Cj
Used SUVs generally sell better with 4WD. Neither vehicle style is selling all that well these days although the compact SUVs are doing ok. The Odyssey has always enjoyed great resale (relative to most other cars). It is big though.
I lived in snow country for 20 years without 4WD or AWD and managed fine (it's the tires :shades:) so that feature wouldn't be too important to me. You're going to be on vacation, so if the weather turns flaky, just take a layover day and enjoy the storm.
Steve, Host
Debbie
Remember that even if you do remove the middle seats in the Odyssey for an extended trip, you still have the rear seats folded out of the way if you need them, so it is still a five seater. I would certainly suggest removing the middle seats if you intend to sleep in the van. When these seats are removed the space remaining is 8' long and 4' wide which is the same as in my 1995 Suburban with the rear seat removed and the middle seat folded down.
I suppose that the Ody's seats might have more support in them but is that really the deciding factor here? No doubt that the Ody has more legroom in the 3rd row but I think the safety aspect is overblown by some. Just my opinion.
Debbie