Anybody have any thoughts on the upcoming Nissan and Honda pickups???

btate2002

Redundant. Who wants a Honda truck? The Toyota and Nissan ones I accept, but Honda and VW are just a whole lot of overkill. They're like the fairweather fans, Only going to make a truck while the time is right, and they'll kill it in a matter of years. As for GM, Ford, Dodge, Toyota, Nissan, those will probably be around to stay. That's just what I've always wanted, a Red stepside HONDA pickup. Give me a break people.

jcave1

The old Datsun was great in so many ways. Lost ground when they became Nissan, and now, well..
Still, Ok for Nissan, they have their following. Ugly as they maybe. Honda? They make decent cars and should not stray from that market.

soggydog

If Cadillac and Ford can cut the back off there SUV's, add a small bed and call it a pick-up; why not Honda.

soggydog

I almost forgot the Lincoln blackwood thing. Now there's one they can sell to the dude ranches to haul around all the horse poop.

sonjaab

If they learn from toyotas mistakes
on its "FULLSIZE" T 100 & tundra.....

slipslide

I din't know what you think but Honda are great vehicle. But you give them a little time with anything Honda will step with leap and bound. You'll are right, that why start mess with something that is alien to your understand.

jcave1

Good points Soggy. Shows they do things they shouldn't. Soon we'll all have wanta-be-trucks sitting in our driveways just like SUV's. Anybody gone booney bookin in their Caddy "truck" lately?

amorales

Ford Courrier minis, yea, bring them on, something for everyone, YES!!!

sonjaab

The Plymouth Arrow and Dodge Ram
Imports from a few years back....
... Geo

tavgrad

Actually, VW did make "trucks" back in the hippie days. I saw quite a few VW Buses with the butt chopped. And I saw an old rusted out rabbit pickup not too long ago. I looked in the Kelly Blue Book, and they classified them as TRUCKS!

If Honda and VW makes a pickup, guarandamntee that it will be like that SPort Trac, or that upcoming Subaru STX. You know, sandbox soft-roaders.

jcave1

Subaru BRAT? What was that thing rated as? No way....

chevytruck_fan

considering the Tundra stole more sales away from the camry than the big three my guess is that any honda or toyota full size would be more to increase margins. probably be the small three fighting over the same 120,000 units.

quadrunner500

LOL!!!!!!

blume1

First off let me explain where I come from-- I own a F150 extended cab 4x4 (grandkid hauler-- and sometimes other stuff) and a 2001 Honda accord EX (just got a new one for the wife -- "old one" a 90 Acura integra 111K no problems (still got 4300 for it from the kid down the street). NOW!!! Can you imagine if Honda decided to make a real full size pickup? Not the size of the SMALLER Tundra ( nobody can argue with this!! ) I mean if they put out a pickup the size of the
F150, Silverado or the Ram . God,-- I bet the management of the big three in pickups go to church every Sunday thanking the Lord that Honda does not do this !!

chevytruck_fan

why would it be good, its not like honda cars are powerful, tough, nice design, have a manly appeal to them, have a history of making trucks, have a history of making big powerful engines,
there is no reason to believe that honda would make a decent truck, it would be like the toyota, only thing going for it is a car interior for the wusses.

rsholland

Toyota, VW, Nissan or Honda full-size pickups.

Toyota may have mis-stepped with the T-100, but their Tundra is a solid hit. I'm sure all the other about-to-be-announced full-size pickup will have learned from Toyota as well.

Honda also mis-stepped with their first Odyssey minivan. They learned their lesson. Their current Odyssey is now a legitimate threat to the Chrysler minivans. I doubt they'll make the same mistake with their first pickup.

So laugh all you want... now. Within five years (if not sooner) the American pickup truck makers will have every reason to be concerned.

Bob

quadrunner500

With every new model, we hear the "within" 5 years catch-up-to big 3 scenario. In case of Tundra, if able to sustain current 3.4% annual growth rate, will take 58 years to equal current GM volume alone if it merely stays the same. New trucks from Honda and Nissan will take sales away not only from big 3 but also Toyota. Not to discount the threat, but the model you describe with all the nifty features bundled into one will not have broad market appeal, but instead cater to a limited upscale buyer, not likely to tip the balance in Toyota's favor anytime soon.

chevytruck_fan

Tundra solid hit, hhhmmm lets see flat sales after one year in production?

Silverado explosive growth 2 years after introduction. in the face of the toyota tundra.

Camry sales slipped about the same # of units as the tundra went up, part of that is bound to be tundra sales.

Toyota has made trucks before and they made two bombs (if you consider them fullsize), compare them against the dakota they aren't too bad. Honda has no experience, so theirs will probably be even worse. when will the japanese get we aren't the size of the japanese?

rsholland

with all the features I suggested can be priced competitively, it will sell to all groups. Most 1/2 ton pickups sold are well equipped models, not construction-type strippers.

I'm simply saying don't write these guys off. They have a long track record of entering various markets and succeeding.

Maybe five years is a bit too ambitious, but 10-15 years isn't. Remember, the Honda Accord wasn't introduced until 1976. That's 25 years ago. It's now a top seller, and has been for years. The same could happen with pickups.

Bob

rsholland

The Tundra has met or exceeded all of Toyota's sales goals. The factory is running at or near full capacity. The reviews from most magazines have been very favorable. To them (maybe not to you), that's a solid hit.

Yes, to truly challenge Ford, Dodge and GM, for sales, it will take years and much more production capacity; but it can be done. Look where Toyota was five years ago, and look where they are now. Then think about where they will be in 10-15 years. I wouldn't be so confident, if I were you.

Bob

quadrunner500

Production capacity is not the issue. Leveling sales, and unsold units are. Still, they are making steady progress. The numbers (from Bama) for this year say up 3.4%.

If you are looking for a home run, the 2500HD's from GM in one year already sell about the same or more units than Tundra, without incentives. And the 1500's have taken the #1 spot from Ford.

Regardless, it's here and now, Tundra's future still pie in the eye.

rsholland

GM has done a good job with their new pickups, no question about it.

As you know, Toyota has aimed the Tundra more at current owners of Japanese vehicles, than traditional full-size truck owners. People, such as yourself, are harder to convert. Owners of Hondas, Nissans, Subarus, etc., can better appreciate the Tundra (and the other upcoming pickups), and are a much easier sell.

Bob

rsholland

I'm all for these new Honda, VW and Nissan pickups. Why? It gives the customer more choice, and I'm all for that. In fact, I would love to see our government repeal the "chicken tax," so we could get some of those neat pickup trucks and vans they sell in Europe too.

Whether you like them or not, isn't important to me. If anything, it will keep Detroit from falling asleep at the wheel; which will ultimately mean better F-Series, Silverados, and Rams.

I don't know about you, but I see that as progress.

Bob

eric2001

having a Honda truck. I heard rumors that they were going to be mixing with GM, swapping powertrains back & forth. If the V-Tech design is implemented, look out... I am a GM fan, but how many normally aspirated 4 cylinders out there put out over 200 hp? Or the 260 hp 3.2l V-6? These are production vehicles. Now as for a V-8, you do the math...
-Eric

chevytruck_fan

thats what I'm saying, the 120,000 tundras made by toyota in a year have only taken very few sales from the big three, mainly from ford (in my opinion).

I don't know of any long time faithfuls of GM/Ford or Dodge switching over to tundra. the truck is made for people that like the camry and like cars, thats why it looks like a camry and drives like a camry.

rsholland

but they're not taking sales away from the Camry. Nobody cross-shops a Camry with a Tundra. These people were going to buy a full-size pickup regardless. So, every Tundra sold is one less Silverado, Ram, and F-Series sold.

Bob

quadrunner500

I'm really not that hard to convert, Bob. I've owned Japanese before. I have friends that let me drive theirs. And I've done the dealer test drive too. I found enough nits to pick on Tundra without the domestic vs import argument entering into. Many things I liked too.

But I've read more statements from die hard Toyota lovers to the effect, that they wouldn't buy domestic even if it had more power, better fuel economy, better braking, cost less etc. I'm far more open minded than that. And my hands on consideration of Tundra proves it. There's simply no perfect truck for everyone.

I agree with you about Tundra meeting or exceeding the goals set for it by Toyota. Toyota executives have expressed their greatest concern to be politcal. Since our markets are open to foreign goods, they chance more with a true direct assault on the domestic truck industry then they do by cultivating a good image partnering with domestic companies on projects like the joint venture with GM on electric hybrids or hydrogen. Similar partnering is underway with Isuzu, who is designing the next S10 pickup, and Honda, to supply 100,000 engines and transaxles to GM for small front wheel drive cars, and GM to supply Honda with truck engines and drivetrains for their upcoming pickup.

rsholland

You're obviously the exception, and I agree with everything you said in your last post. But as we both know, the pickup truck market historically has been very conservative, and very slow to except new ideas.

I see these new entries into the pickup market as a breath of fresh air. As with every vehicle there will be areas to criticize, as well as praise. Everybody is going to try and "out-feature" the other guy. I can easily see Honda or VW or Nissan incorporating some of the new features found in the Chevy Avalanche, and building and improving upon them.

I'm really looking forward to the next few years as far as vehicles are concerned.

Bob

moparbad

VW has been making pickups since the 60's, they just do not sell them in the USA. And VW made a 3 door pickup with seating for 5 or 6 people way before extended cabs became popular in US. Hyundai/Kia builds trucks. Mitsubishi builds trucks but does not sell them in US. Mercedes builds trucks. I would not be surprised if more choices and competition arrived in the US in the mini and fullsize truck market. And it would be welcome too, when was the last redesign of the S10 and Ranger?

rsholland

and thanks to the "chicken tax" levied back in the '60s, we haven't been able to get any small "trucks" made in Europe. They simply would have been way too expensive to be successful here. Prior to that tax, we used to get VW pickups that were based on the VW bus. BTW, I saw one on the road about a month ago, so some still survive.

The new VW pickup will be built here in North America.

Bob

jim4444

I'd be more open to a Japenese vehicle.

A 260 HP V6?

Chevy has a 275 HP I6....easier to manufacture than a V6 and the same EPA numbers as a comparable V6, so sadly the 4.3 is on its death bed. Since its a I6 it makes plenty of torque and is naturally balanced.

I can't wait until its the base engine in the Silverado.....heard it will make 300 HP then.

A standard engine with 300 HP? Life is good!

1994 was the last redesign of the S10.

abc246

Is Honda going to have a V8 in the truck? I would think they would need one. Are they going to use a GM V8? Toyota wanted to use GM V8s in the Turnda but GM said NO WAY. That was stupid on GM part. I would like a Honda or Toyota truck with a GM engine and trans. This would be a very good combo.

natureboy1

It was the T100 back in its heyday... There were "rumors" that Toyota wanted to drop a small block Chev/GM engine into the T100. Ultimately GM backed out...

The Tundra was to never have a V8 American engine. From day one (when it was finally decided to have a V8 powerplant in the Tundra) the plan was to use a Lexus-derived V8 motor.

eric2001

While I was commenting upon Honda's current 3.2L 260 HP motor, I was not knocking the new I6 from GM, just pondering what Honda could make if they have 260 out of a 3.2 liter... Yes the GM does make more horse, with a 31% increase in displacement. I am a GM die-hard, so don't get me wrong, but Honda also makes (limited production of course) 290HP out of the same motor in the NSX trim. My question was, what if Honda was to make a production V-8? There has been rumors on making one for the Acura RL, and the next generation NSX, also.

-Eric

rsholland

it would be a huge mistake if Honda were to purchase an existing V8 from GM, or any other manufacturer. They need to make their own engine, otherwise, the vehicle will never be considered a "true" Honda. They certainly have the know-how to do it.

Bob

frey44

The reason I am going to buy the Tundra IS the Toyo V8: a gorgious piece of work. I think the small block Chevy motors are GREAT...for Chevies. I don't WANT to buy a [non-permissible content removed] truck with a Yankee motor. The [non-permissible content removed] motor is their STRONG point for smoothness and reliability. Honda will be EASILY capable of building a competetive V8, and no doubt, it will be a smoothie. The Tundra is the "Cadillac" of "highway" half-tons: quiet, smooth, lack of vibration. It is attracting many like me who grew up driving Honda civics and toyo corollas. It is not aimed at the blue-collar macho crown anyways. Honda will initially go after that same crowd, and they will sell out the first year. Nissan will get its Frontier customers trading up. GM only needs to focus on getting quality problems resolved; they are alwasy too busy marketing and coming out with a new model (often times, that nobody asked for), and doesn't spend enough time refining what they already have.

jr26

I just saw the Nissan Alpha-T Concept full size truck at http://www.nissandriven.com/insideNissan/LookingAheadArticle/0,9401,536,00.html

Please tell me this is not the full size Nissan truck I have been waiting for. What are these designers thinking? This is uglier than the Aztec. If the Big 3 fans have a problem with the Tundra design, which I like, they will have a field day laughing at this design. I have driven a Tundra and loved it - quiet, smooth, powerful. I also have driven F-150s - loud, bumpy and like steering an oil tanker complete with heeling over in the corners. And I won't own another GM. I would like a short box and regular cab which Tundra doesn't have. Where can I find information on the Honda? Otherwise, I'll be buying a Tundra, and then joining in the war of words at the Tundra forum which I have been reading for two years.

quadrunner500

Having driven (or owned) recent ('99) GM small block V8 (5.3L), and Tundra Limited and SR5 access cab models with 4.7L V8, the engine and transmission are not the Toyota strong point. Both GM and Toyota drivetrains are smooth, but GM 4L60E automatic with tow haul is superior in heavy duty situations, shifts smoothly and imperceptibly. The 5.3L V8 gets better fuel mileage with better low end torque. While low maintenance push rod simplicity is not the ideal motivation for the NSX, it is better for a truck.

Where the Toyota is excels, is the coil front suspension, and rack and pinion steering.

The GM V8 in Honda pickups is a done deal according to Wall St. Journal. Honda will be supplying GM with 100,000 4 cylinder engines and transaxles for a small car application. A marriage suiting the strengths of both manufacturers.

ratboy3

I wonder what car manufacturer (in the States anyway) has never made a vehicle with another manufacturer?!

I bought an '87 Chevy Nova with a Toyota engine in it. Personally that is the most cruel thing to do to the Nova name. Very good car but they killed the name Nova.

abc246

Toyota wanted the GM V-8 for the Tunrda also. GM said no way (again). Toyota knows the Lexus V-8 is very expensive to build and will be very expensive to repair.

frey44, You may want to rethink your statement about blue-collar. You offended both sides here for no reason. With sales running 7 to 1, I bet there are more high educated buyers are buying the Chevy. There are many doctors and lawyers driving F150, Rams, and Silverados. I wonder how your Honda truck would tow with high hp and no torque, typical of Honda engines!

rsholland

You're comparing a 4.7L engine to a 5.3L engine. Sure the 5.3 would out-torque the 4.7. I wonder how GM's 4.8L would stack up to the Toyota 4.7L? I bet the Toyota would do just fine.

Now if Toyota decides to put out a 5.3L, then the comparison with GM's 5.3L would make sense. Until then...

BTW, I hope you're wrong about the GM engine/Honda truck deal. It would be a big mistake, IMO—no matter how good the GM engine is. One of the main reasons people buy Hondas—is because of their engines. Another big reason is that Honda customers don't like domestic brands.

Honda would be shooting themselves in the foot by sticking a GM (or any domestic V8) engine under the hood. You'll get the hardcore domestic buyer saying: "See, I told you the Japanese can't make a big V8;" and at the same time, they'll alienate their long-time faithful. It's about as dumb a move as Honda could make.

Bob

natureboy1

Show me any evidence of this...

There never were any plans to put a V8 GM motor in a Tundra. It was the T100. There were rumors, and they were just that, rumors, that Toyota wanted small block V8 engines from GM in the T100. Whatever the reason, the plan never materialized...

I have followed the Tundra from conception (magazines, news articles etc) and I have never once heard this.

What I did read, was that it still took some work for Toyota to put a V8 in the Tundra. What I mean by this is that apparently some at Toyota believed a V8 in the truck was not necessary, and the truck only required a larger V6. After talks with American Toyota dealers, the lead designer of the Tundra went back to Japan and convinced the "big wigs" to add Toyota's first V8 powered truck to its lineup...

chevytruck_fan

why would anyone be touting they have a car engine in their truck, just shows what kind of people drive toyotas.

rsholland

What about the 4.6L V8 that's found on Crown Vics, Mustangs, and F-150s? Or, the previous generation Impala and Silverado, which use the small block GM V8?

Bob

jim4444

What wasnt it in??

autojunkyjosh

My aunt owns three Nissan trucks, one datsun, a Quest, Maxima, Stanza, Altima, and just got rid of one of the original Maxima Wagons.
She is a rural mail carrier and used them for 25 years.
She is ready to buy a new one and needs to know can you get the new frontier with extended cab and have a front bench seat(column shifter) after 25 years of straddling the hump in the middle she doesn't think she can switch to RHD.

f1jules

I think Toyota made an excellent choice in engines. Compared to the 4.6l V-8 in the Ford F-150 the Tundra engine shines. It is more powerful, smoother and more refined. The F-150 was the only other truck I seriously considered when I bought my Tundra. 26,000+ trouble free miles later and I'm extremely pleased with the Tundra.

I am all for Japanese fullsize trucks. More choice is a good thing.

eagle63

"There are many doctors and lawyers driving F150, Rams, and Silverados."

-there are?

quadrunner500

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/front/1097613

quadrunner500

...was only getting about 350,000 miles on each transmission though....

eharri3

But they won't be a threat for the forseeable future to the big 3. It's not because of any inherent inferiority in the product, I think the Tundra is a very nice truck. It's just that they think too small. That works for economy cars but not when you're trying to take the lion's share of the full sized pickup market or appeal to the typical power-loving American truck buyer. They need to learn to get past thinking about just what will be adequate and start to think in terms of more than adequate. The fact that Honda finally figured things out with the Odyssey, combined with the fact that they get to watch Toyota and learn from their mistakes, makes me think they may be the first to really break into the heart of the full-sized pickup market.

Because streets are narrower and gas is pricier in the home markets, their corporate design culture has developed a sense of thrift in engineering and packaging that won't let them supersize everything the way they need to in order to really rock the pickup world. As evidence, note that Toyota almost made the foolish mistake of introducing the Tundra with nothing more than a V6, and that they are considering larger engines for it later on. I think further down the line foreign half-ton truck builders will become a threat to the domestics, but only after they get used to American automotive culture and learn that design philosophies that work in building economy cars won't necessarily work for big trucks.