don't fix anything, they merely give the tech/mechanic a trouble code. That can be the system monitored, or the senser monitoring it. I do mostly suspension work now days, so scanner are not a mainstay of my diagnostic work. Alas, my son left a co-worker's Toyota Corolla at the shop today for me to find an NVH (noise vibration harshness) problem tomorrow that a Toyota dealer and two other shops have failed to fix, but charged many dollars.
As cars become more technically sophisticated, technicians/mechanics are becoming more like medical people, you pay their fees for their mistakes as well as their sucesses.
One thing that confuses many people is the "check engine", or "service engine soon" light that appears on the instrument panel when you need to pay for your kids' school books or dentist bill. Computers that control engines do a remarkable job. They car keep an engine running smoothly and efficiently even as problems develope. In the pre computer days, a minor problem was noticable in driving performance long before the car quit at the least convenient time. Now the computer compensates as long as it can, and when it cannot, you may stop where ever you are. The check engine light is the replacement for the hesitaton on accelleration or slight miss that used to tell you it was time for service.
You know, its funny. The dealers have all this training for their techs, all the fancy equipment and they put emphasis on replacing parts, not diagnostics.
With a decent scanner that has monitor capabilities, a digital volt/ohm meter and a quality automotive information system, there should be very few "computer related" problems that a mechanic shouldn't be able to solve. Every trouble code has a diagnostic flowchart/trouble code tree to it. If followed correctly, there are few times (intermittents) that they shouldn't be able to locate the problem.
technical. That's why many are confused. What people want to know is in lehman's terms? What a buyer wants to know is how to compare torque/hp/engine size from one car to another and not some formula or the history of hp(Mr. James Watts. For example, if one car has 200hp @7000 rpm and another has 200hp @5800 rpm, which is performing better? Thus, they want general explanations of these specs. That's all.
The problem with trying to generalize that information is that what is going to work for one, isn't going to work for another. Things to consider, what rpm range will you be running in most of the time. Are you pulling anything? The weight of the vehicle, the rpm range you will be running in and even the terrain all factor into what a person needs to consider.
Lets use a camaro and a chevy truck. THESE ARE NOT ACCURATE NUMBERS: Say you are looking at a vehicle, like your numbers, say a 305 V-8 let's say 250 hp@5000 rpm 200ft lbs torque@4000and another setup at 250@3500 rpm and 200 ft lbs torque@3000. Say we have a camaro that will be running a 5 speed and the person wants to run it hard, in the 4000 rpm range all the time. Now, we have a truck, that is going to be pulling a trailor every once in a while and climbing hills. The best engine for the camaro is going to be the 250@5000 rpm and the best engine for the truck will be the the 250@3500, because it needs lower end torque for the pulling.
I read an article awhile back about the check engine light.
It was something along the lines of people are paying more attention to it then the regular maintenance needed.
For example someone gets a car, fails to change the oil for 20k miles. The engine starts making funny noises but there are no warning lights so it must be ok.
Then the check engine light comes on and the next day they are at the dealership.
I witnessed this at the local jiffy lube. This lady customer was waiting around. The mechanic walks in with an oil cap in his hand. Shows the lady the crud in the cap and how her engine needs to be flushed. Anyway she went on to explain to him how she didnt know when she had the oil changed last, how she only came in because her oil light came on (she thought that it meant she needed an oil change).
When I went outside to pick up my car hers was out there getting "flushed". Her car sounded like it was about to just shoot pistons through the hood. It was a very good looking 98 or 99 Nissan Altima.
I recently had a squeeling noise up in the front of my car. The mechanic said I needed to replace the serpentine belt. I did. The squeeling was still there, so he said I needed to replace the belt tensioner. I did. Now, the squeeling is still there, so he sprayed the belt with belt dressing. That stopped the squeeling for a little while. He has now sprayed the belt several times with belt dressing, which for the most part has stopped the really LOUD squeeling, however, not the squeeling altogether. I squeels more when wet, and also after being driven for a while (not just a short trip to the store). I am at whits ends trying to stop this noise. Any suggestions?
If you have a squealing belt and belt dressin quiets it for a bit (which is not the answer) then you either have a belt problem, a tensioner problem or one of the other pulleys is a problem. I would look at the alternator or PS pulleys. It would help to know what kind of vehicle it is.
I have an 1988 Aires that used to squeal on a regular basis. For a while, just getting it tightened may help. But it is a sign that something is loose. Over the years here are the things that were replaced: Idler arm, water pump, alternator, and Tensioner arm. Any one of these might be causing the problem.
I do know since I used it as well, that the sprays are not really a solution. The noise means someting else needs to be checked.
Torque steer is what is caused by front wheel drives when one side tends to have more pull than the other side. As power is applied, the one side has a tendancy to want to pull to one side or the other, depending on which side has more torque.
can be a bad thing if you cannot quickly correct the steering usually because the car has high horsepower w/o traction control.... minor torque steer is only an annoyance. You can experience torque steer best when you stomp on the gas to drag race, perhaps.
Does anyone have any idea why two rods blew through the block? I had the oil changed at a quick change and 50 miles later I had to say good bye forever. Not to menchen I had to rent a car to buy a new one. Double wham. I never missed an oil change and own a circular buffer for waxing for crying out loud. I am serious about my car. With all due respect to women, I know no other woman that owns a buffer and spends 8 hrs detailing.
Before your engine self destructed were there any warning signs like the oil light or a knocking noise?
If it was 50 mi after an oil change I'd suspect that they didn't tighten the drain plug. as the plug loosened the oil leaked out. My guess is that around 50 mi the plug fell out, drained all the oil, and blew the engine. If it happened at highway speed (60-70 mph) the failure would be pretty fast.
Questions: 1. was there a trail of oil on the road? 2. was the drain plug still in the pan?
I do not believe in coincidence when dealing with automobiles - there is a reason for everything and the "50 miles after the oil change" just sounds too spooky.
When I was a Chevy service manager, my best customers were Jiffy Lube, Q-Lube, Wal-Mart, Penske and a couple of private oil change places. We had a lot of technicians, and during the entire year and a half at that dealer, I had at least one engine replacement job going from one of those sources.
Usually, it was a drain plug that fell out, or an oil filter with no gasket, or no oil was put in, or the oil was put in, but the drain plug wasn't put back in, etc. Check it out!
Thanks dpwestlake and zueslewis. To dpwestlake: I know there was a puddle of oil under the car after it had been towed. I don't know about the plug. I believe that perhaps there was some tampering. I went to fetch the oil filter and it was gone. I took pictures of that for the Judge so hopefully my case will be substantiated. I had just done some local driving when it happened. There was no indication that it was was about to be ruined forever. It just began to act strange. The minute that happened I turned around to go somewhere to get it serviced. Before I knew it, it made a loud snap sound. I knew it wasn't the serpentine belt. It drifted enough for me to get it safely off the road. The mechanic initially assessed the vehicle said it was the pan. He changed his story though and now he will not testify. Thanks so much for your time.
Zueslewis- What do you think I should do now? What can I provide as evidence in court? Did I mention that I will be going to the Magistrate next Tuesday? Honestly, I am slightly apprehensive because I will be defending myself and I do not want to look like a donkey let alone loose. Again, the Judge is female so I might say that based on pure odds, she will know as much about cars as I. However, the defense will have counsel. The defense has already offended me several times and in conjunction with counsel, I would enjoy surprising everyone. I would enjoy it purely on principal. Tell me what you think. THANKS AGAIN
Did the tow truck driver confirm the oil fiflter was gone? It would be favorable if he could substantiate that the filter was gone. Have you contacted the oil change place to ask what they plan on doing about it? The oil filter gone, suggests that the oil filter was improperly installed and came off while driving, which is more common than you think. If the oil filter came off while you were driving, the oil emptied itself out of the engine onto the road and with no oil the engine self destructed. But, it should have made plenty of racket before it let loose. Make sure you go after the cost of the engine, labor, legal fees and the cost of the rental vehicle.
I think your case rests on the rather drastic consequences that occurred. An engine will not self-destruct like that unless it is under tremendous stress. Something AWFUL had to have happened. The engine could easily be examined for oil starvation, and a shop would certainly testify to that if they knew anything about engines. If it was oil starvation, then you have a strong case IMO. It's really the only way to connect the oil change to the present condition of your engine. A missing oil filter is simply that...missing...and is not strong enough proof...as suspicious as it may be.
His advice is excellent. You will have to have some professional mechanic, (at least ASE certified) who can determine the cause in an objective way. Otherwise it's a he said -- she said scenario. Since you have the burden of proof you will have to have more.
the antenna on my 94 celica stopped working,can I just replace the mast & use the old motor,I know the motor is still working,I was told that the ribbon in the mast probably broke. I have the power unplugged now
My daughter was driving on the X-way 200 miles from home and her 95 Protege (67,000 miles) just quit - the dash lights all came on and she was able to coast to a stop. The repair shop said the distributer didn't fire and the engine filled with gas and broke the oil seals. They have let it sit with oil and got it started after a couple of days. They say there is nothing wrong with the car and didn't really fix anything. Now we are scared to take it out of town? Any ideas? It has a new timing chain which was fine.
Hi Mike289- You should try posting your question in one of our active Toyoto Celica discussions. To start, here's Toyota Celica (Hatchbacks). Also, have you tried asking someone at your local Toyota Service shop...?
Hi tnmom- Sorry to hear about your Protege problem. While you're waiting here for a response, you should also check out our ongoing mazda Protege problems discussion. Use your copy/paste so you don't have to re-write your message. Good luck.
If you can hear the PA motor running then you can probably just change the mast. It's not hard if you have basic mechanical skills, but you do have to take the motor apart. I had this problem with my Mazda. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the right attenana (the dealers would only sell the antenna w/motor). I just left it up and pulled the power (so it wouldn' make that noise anymore).
Glad your problem was resolved. Thanks for also sharing your information in our Protege Problems discussion. Hope everything works out well from this point on. Please keep us posted. ;-)
Most people are just too lazy to properly maintain their cars. It seems that the only solution is for cars to have blinking lights to remind some people that they need to get things serviced. Also, tire pressure monitoring system will be standard on most new cars less than a decade from now.
To Mary Farmer: When the TIMING belt breaks whileengine is running the "NON INTERFERANCE" engine wont sustainvalve damage as an INTERFERANCEengine will.
I see you've also posted your same question (post 83) in another discussion here. Hopefully you've gotten the information you need. For a more definitive answer, you should also try asking one of the mechanics at one of your local Toyota service shops? Just an idea. Good luck, and thanks for your participation at Town Hall. ;-)
To clarify, an interference or "zero clearance" engine means that if the valves are fully open the piston will hit them when it gets all the way to the top.
Years ago (about 30) I was a tech for chrysler, and was pretty good at what I did. These days cars are so computerized, I have to admit I'm a bit frustrated. I did everything from end to end including transmissions and elec. My question is if there is a car for do it yourselfers which one is best? by best I mean the most repair friendly for us old x-mechanics...Thanks
how about the original beetle? i don;t think there are any non-computerrized cars made these days. but i though 1991 VW jetta was pretty straightforward with repairs as long as you have a scan tool. now that i own a honda, i might as well have the hood welded shut.
here's an article from Edmunds' Daily Headlines that some you may find interesting: Auto Mechanics Are Now High-Tech Specialists. According this article: "There's definitely no shortage of jobs" and "dedicated and experienced automotive technicians can earn more than $100,000 a year." Sounds like there might be some good opportunities for people in this field. What do you think? ;-)
I think whoever wrote that article was sniffing something. While there is a "potential" for some mechanics to make $100,000/year, very, very few ever do. No matter how dedicated and experienced they are. Only in select shops do mechanics ever get about the $70,000 range. Experienced heavy equipment mechanics in my area get around $25/hour. Most of the automotive guys se between $12-$18 hour, unless they are flat rate and then the average around $15-$25. A far cry from the 100K range. Some of the specialty shops and high dollar import mechanics that I know are making around $80K. Unless the shop is in great demand (and very few are), there is no possible way for a mechanic to pull in that kind of wages. A mechanic would have to be on flat rate for at least $50/hour and produce 100% productivity for the entier year. Possible? Yes. Likely? Not a chance. Not when most shops are charging $85-$90/hour. That would be giving the mechanic more than 50% of the shop rate, I don't know too many shop owners who are going to go for that.
There is no question that there is a shortage of mechanics, both automotive and heavy equipment, but to say that there is a potential for $100K/year, is stretching it a bit. I've been in the mechanic field for over 20 years and am one of the highest paid mechanics in my area and while I am somewhat close to that mark, I will never make it.
Not so hard to imagine mechanics being well paid when you look at the labor rates being charged at your service center. But then again, they ARE doing something that HAS to be done that the majority of the public can't or won't do. Isn't that the "secret" to success? Being able to make something or provide a service that people need and want?
revka: I don't think it's (100K) possible. In my area mechanics are a dime a dozen. I couldn't tell you whether or not they're any good though...
pf: The "secret" to success it taking the jobs that no one else wants and to be willing to work your fingers to the bone. Most of those who come from India (or thereabouts) have got it down pat. How many of them do you see working at gas stations or the local 24-hr convienience store?
Us born and bred Americans have gotten spoiled. I know quite a few people who would have REFUSED to pump gas when they were teenagers.
Jusdreamin, what the heck is overdrive? Overdrive is, basically, another gear (higher). what does it do? When the trans shifts to overdrive, it allows the engine to turn at a lower rpm, theoretiaclly saving wear and tear on the engine and saving fuel. why would you want to turn it off? Generally, if you are towing or pulling a big hill, it is a good idea to kick it out of overdrive to prevent the trans from kicking in and out of overdrive. When you turn it off, you are shifting it into drive and not allowing it to go into the higher gear.
Comments
I'll have to remember that one.
As cars become more technically sophisticated, technicians/mechanics are becoming more like medical people, you pay their fees for their mistakes as well as their sucesses.
Harry
Have it checked.
Harry
With a decent scanner that has monitor capabilities, a digital volt/ohm meter and a quality automotive information system, there should be very few "computer related" problems that a mechanic shouldn't be able to solve.
Every trouble code has a diagnostic flowchart/trouble code tree to it. If followed correctly, there are few times (intermittents) that they shouldn't be able to locate the problem.
Things to consider, what rpm range will you be running in most of the time. Are you pulling anything?
The weight of the vehicle, the rpm range you will be running in and even the terrain all factor into what a person needs to consider.
Lets use a camaro and a chevy truck.
THESE ARE NOT ACCURATE NUMBERS:
Say you are looking at a vehicle, like your numbers, say a 305 V-8 let's say 250 hp@5000 rpm 200ft lbs torque@4000and another setup at 250@3500 rpm and 200 ft lbs torque@3000.
Say we have a camaro that will be running a 5 speed and the person wants to run it hard, in the 4000 rpm range all the time. Now, we have a truck, that is going to be pulling a trailor every once in a while and climbing hills.
The best engine for the camaro is going to be the 250@5000 rpm and the best engine for the truck will be the the 250@3500, because it needs lower end torque for the pulling.
There is no real easy answer to anyone.
It was something along the lines of people are paying more attention to it then the regular maintenance needed.
For example someone gets a car, fails to change the oil for 20k miles. The engine starts making funny noises but there are no warning lights so it must be ok.
Then the check engine light comes on and the next day they are at the dealership.
I witnessed this at the local jiffy lube. This lady customer was waiting around. The mechanic walks in with an oil cap in his hand. Shows the lady the crud in the cap and how her engine needs to be flushed. Anyway she went on to explain to him how she didnt know when she had the oil changed last, how she only came in because her oil light came on (she thought that it meant she needed an oil change).
When I went outside to pick up my car hers was out there getting "flushed". Her car sounded like it was about to just shoot pistons through the hood. It was a very good looking 98 or 99 Nissan Altima.
then you either have a belt problem, a tensioner problem or one of the other pulleys is a problem.
I would look at the alternator or PS pulleys.
It would help to know what kind of vehicle it is.
I do know since I used it as well, that the sprays are not really a solution. The noise means someting else needs to be checked.
Dodge repairs are relatively inexpensive.
what is "torque steer"?
is it a good thing, or a bad thing?
please explain.
thanks.
Just a reminder that the News & Views chat is on tonight (5-6pm Pacific/8-9 pm Eastern). Hope to see you there!
Tonight's topic is Owner Maintenance: How handy are you around your vehicle?
http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/chat/newsviews.html
PF Flyer
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If it was 50 mi after an oil change I'd suspect that they didn't tighten the drain plug. as the plug loosened the oil leaked out. My guess is that around 50 mi the plug fell out, drained all the oil, and blew the engine. If it happened at highway speed (60-70 mph) the failure would be pretty fast.
Questions:
1. was there a trail of oil on the road?
2. was the drain plug still in the pan?
When I was a Chevy service manager, my best customers were Jiffy Lube, Q-Lube, Wal-Mart, Penske and a couple of private oil change places. We had a lot of technicians, and during the entire year and a half at that dealer, I had at least one engine replacement job going from one of those sources.
Usually, it was a drain plug that fell out, or an oil filter with no gasket, or no oil was put in, or the oil was put in, but the drain plug wasn't put back in, etc. Check it out!
Thanks so much for your time.
Tell me what you think. THANKS AGAIN
Have you contacted the oil change place to ask what they plan on doing about it?
The oil filter gone, suggests that the oil filter was improperly installed and came off while driving, which is more common than you think.
If the oil filter came off while you were driving, the oil emptied itself out of the engine onto the road and with no oil the engine self destructed. But, it should have made plenty of racket before it let loose.
Make sure you go after the cost of the engine, labor, legal fees and the cost of the rental vehicle.
Hi tnmom- Sorry to hear about your Protege problem. While you're waiting here for a response, you should also check out our ongoing mazda Protege problems discussion. Use your copy/paste so you don't have to re-write your message. Good luck.
Revka
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If you can hear the PA motor running then you can probably just change the mast. It's not hard if you have basic mechanical skills, but you do have to take the motor apart. I had this problem with my Mazda. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the right attenana (the dealers would only sell the antenna w/motor). I just left it up and pulled the power (so it wouldn' make that noise anymore).
Revka
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Perhaps some of you may have more to add.... Thanks for your comments. ;-)
Revka
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Revka
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Are interference engines the ones that cause a whole lotta damage when the timing belt/chain break? Kinda like the ones Saab has?
Instead of replacing the belt/chain, you have to rebuild the engine, right?
i don;t think there are any non-computerrized cars made these days. but i though 1991 VW jetta was pretty straightforward with repairs as long as you have a scan tool. now that i own a honda, i might as well have the hood welded shut.
Revka
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Only in select shops do mechanics ever get about the $70,000 range.
Experienced heavy equipment mechanics in my area get around $25/hour. Most of the automotive guys se between $12-$18 hour, unless they are flat rate and then the average around $15-$25. A far cry from the 100K range.
Some of the specialty shops and high dollar import mechanics that I know are making around $80K. Unless the shop is in great demand (and very few are), there is no possible way for a mechanic to pull in that kind of wages.
A mechanic would have to be on flat rate for at least $50/hour and produce 100% productivity for the entier year. Possible? Yes. Likely? Not a chance. Not when most shops are charging $85-$90/hour. That would be giving the mechanic more than 50% of the shop rate, I don't know too many shop owners who are going to go for that.
There is no question that there is a shortage of mechanics, both automotive and heavy equipment, but to say that there is a potential for $100K/year, is stretching it a bit. I've been in the mechanic field for over 20 years and am one of the highest paid mechanics in my area and while I am somewhat close to that mark, I will never make it.
Revka
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Oh, the guys I talked about that make $80K/year, they also work 60 hours a week.
I hope it didn't come off wrong or anything.
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pf: The "secret" to success it taking the jobs that no one else wants and to be willing to work your fingers to the bone. Most of those who come from India (or thereabouts) have got it down pat. How many of them do you see working at gas stations or the local 24-hr convienience store?
Us born and bred Americans have gotten spoiled. I know quite a few people who would have REFUSED to pump gas when they were teenagers.
But anyhoo, my new ride's got auto with overdrive. The default setting is that the overdrive is on.
Now a: what the heck is overdrive? b: what does it do? and c: why would you want to turn it off?
And thanks to everyone that has been sharing their wisdom on this topic. Without you we couldn't have made it to 100.
It's my first topic to reach 100 posts. I'm kinda proud. my baby is all grown up.
what the heck is overdrive?
Overdrive is, basically, another gear (higher).
what does it do?
When the trans shifts to overdrive, it allows the engine to turn at a lower rpm, theoretiaclly saving wear and tear on the engine and saving fuel.
why would you want to turn it off?
Generally, if you are towing or pulling a big hill, it is a good idea to kick it out of overdrive to prevent the trans from kicking in and out of overdrive. When you turn it off, you are shifting it into drive and not allowing it to go into the higher gear.
Does this help any?