Nissan 350Z

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Comments

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The Z platform's also used for the Skyline/G35 and the upcoming G35 coupe will use it too. By re-using versions of the awesome VQ and using a plaform on several models, the kids at Nissan can cut costs in ways Honda never will manage with their niche buggy S2000.

    How many RWD front engine cars does Honda make? Oh...one. How many 240 hp 4 cylinder 2 liter engines does Honda make? Oh, one. Wow, I can see how Honda's so amazingly clever. One engine, one platform all going toward a limited production vehicle. I can understand how they lose money on it.

    The 350Z is NOT intended to be a niche car. It's meant to be a return to the Z's roots...an affordable RWD sports car. I don't know of another decent 280+ HP RWD sports car with fully independent suspension that I can buy for 26k. Do you?

    The Z and S2000 are two very different breeds of cat.
  • bbunsbbuns Member Posts: 17
    Tour only has leather and bose. No 18", pressure monitor, and MT (optional). Personally, I really dont like leather in performance car.
    I also dont like Navigation either. I never use in my current car....I always know where to go :)
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    You said:

    "Had Nissan come out with one or two models in the $35k+/- price range, I'd have more confidence in the product meeting my expectations and desires."

    Last time Nissan went for the $35K+ sports car they lost their shirt. Remember the 300ZX?. The 350Z is an affordable mainstream sports car not an exclusive vehicle. If you want exclusivity go buy a Porsche or wait till Nissan launches the Skyline GT-R (R35) with an Infiniti Badge. Save your pennies.
  • brew1974brew1974 Member Posts: 18
    The 350Z is not exclusive? Anyone can buy a boxster with 201hp on ebay for $30K. This new Z WILL end up having have 300 hp and have CARRERA performance! The Z is legendary. I have had C5 vette and now have a 95 300ZX. Other than horse-power the vette does not touch my car. Anyone with Z32 300ZX knows what talking about. I would not discredit 350Z so fast!
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The Z will be a peasant's Porsche. It will not offer Porsche/Ferrari/S2000/Viper exclusivity. By exclusivity, I'm talking about one of the various defintions of the word: restricted in distribution, use, or appeal because of expense or limited numbers produced. The Z is going to have something ungodly like 2-4k vehicles produced a month. That's a far cry from the 5k total S2000s to hit US shores a year.
  • bbunsbbuns Member Posts: 17
    Some official comments:

    - Chief Production designer, told race & track, that 350z will be a competition to TT,Boxter S, and S2000.
    - Ghosn, in Detroit auto show introduction, said that this car will be 30k car with 50k performance.

    I think this car has beaten the competition as well performance/price estimate.
  • brew1974brew1974 Member Posts: 18
    Well first of all, putting the S2000 and Ferrari in the class as far as being exclusive is down right silly. I have driven a S2000 and they pretty weak until you get the rpms up close to the redline. Secondly, Nissan is producing "2-4K" Z's a month (approx. 30,000 this year) for the WORLD market. Ford sold almost 200,000 Explorers in the US in 1998. Now that is not exclusive. The Z may be a peasants porsche, but then the porsche is a peasants Ferrari. So what, it is all relative.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,558
    Ford sells close to or slightly abovr 500,000 Explorers every year. I belive '98 was probably above the 500,000 mark. 2001 they sold somewhere around the 480,000 mark. I'm not trying to start an Explorer debate on this board by any means, just stating the facts.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • brew1974brew1974 Member Posts: 18
    Facts are good.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Compare apples to oranges. If the demand for Explorers is X amount Ford will produce X amount to meet demand. Same with the Z. The Z is a mass production car, and eventually there will be enough of them to meet demand. Get this exclusivity idea out of your heads folks.
  • jimxojimxo Member Posts: 423
    Even though sales figures are important the word FORD mentioned on a Nissan board makes me ill.
  • bpraxisbpraxis Member Posts: 292
    Hello everyone and what a pleasure to see Nissan producing fun cars again. I would like to buy the base Z but it does not have cruise control. Does anyone know if it is possible to add cruise control after the purchase? If so would it be to my advantage to have the dealer install it? The Enthusiast Model is approximately $2000 more and the other features offered besides cruise control do not interest me. Thanks for your input.
  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    I had aftermarket cruise control added when I bought my NX2000 many years back. It works, but it's not as refined as the cruise control system that comes with the car. For example, when you hit the set button, the car accelerates strongly for a second, then settles back down to the set speed. It also isn't set up to disengage when the clutch is depressed, though it does disengage when you hit the brakes.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,558
    disengages when you tap the brakes.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    I understand that, but it's aftermarket and you never know what you're going to get. It was not a Nissan aftermarket cruise, which I don't think they make.

    Every cruise control should disengage when you hit the clutch as well, but mine didn't. Scared the hell out of me when I discovered that fact.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    <<Well first of all, putting the S2000 and Ferrari in the class as far as being exclusive is down right silly.>>

    Compared to the mass produced 350Z (using the same chassis as the G35/Skyline) the limited production S2000 IS exclusive. If you don't understand the term...go look it up. I thought putting the definition in my last post was enough, but apparently I was mistaken.

    << I have driven a S2000 and they pretty weak until you get the rpms up close to the redline. Secondly, Nissan is producing "2-4K" Z's a month (approx. 30,000 this year) for the WORLD market.>>

    The performance of the S2000 is not the issue. We were talking about exclusivity - there's a huge difference. If they only make 300 45 HP mustard colored Dodge Neon 1 cylinder twin turbos in a year that is an exclusive car, regardless of its performance.

    No matter how you slice it the Z is a mass produced sports car, designed to meet the desires of the masses...not a niche market. The S2000 is a narrowly defined convertible with a very specific target market.
  • 92drexel92drexel Member Posts: 153
    I think that the S2000 and the Z are pretty comparable price-wise. Keep in mind that the S2000 is a standard convertable (I think)...so I think that when Nissan chops the roof off of the Z (2003?) that it'll add 3-4K to the cost (so a "stripped" Z conv will probably sell for the low 30's range (compared to $32 for the S2000).

    Performance-wise, I'd expect the Z and the S2000 to be close (that is until NISMO comes up with a turbo-charger). I think that the S2000 weighs 400 lbs less than a Z, so that'll make-up for its engine's horsepower and torque disadvantage.

    Just my 2 cents...
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    I think it would make an ugly convertable...nice in coupe but ugly convertable, buy an S2000 if ya want convertable...
  • vincexvincex Member Posts: 6
    limited production models and/or how many you see in your neighborhood? I think it means both. S2000s and Boxsters are all over the place here in California, so they're not exclusive here. But Speedracer's right. I've read that Honda ended up shipping a ton more S2000s to the US than they had initially planned the last couple of years to meet demand.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Technically a 911 is an exclusive car in the realm of production automobiles but if you're living in Southern California or the Bay Area you begin to think every 5th person owns a Porsche. As it turns out CA gets the lion's share of Porsches earmarked for US distribution. NY and IL get the next largest batch and the rest of the nation gets a pittance.
  • obiwankenobi1obiwankenobi1 Member Posts: 290
    Yeah, and cars like the Carrera GT and 911 GT2 are cars that REALLY live in Ferrari's shadow!

    A 911 GT2 will come close to wiping the floor with Ferrari's 360 Modena! Plus, you take a GT2, send it to Ruf and make it an RTurbo and it WILL wipe the floor with almost every production Ferrari!

    So, no, Porsche is NOT a peasant's Ferrari!

    I love the new Z, but if Nissan is going to make a G35 coupe, sign me up! I love the 255hp VQ engine in my 02 Maxima SE! It has gobs of power.
  • speedracer3speedracer3 Member Posts: 650
    Southern California is not the only place you find a Porsche in every corner. Here in South Florida...Porsches and Ferraris are very common.
  • BlakJackBlakJack Member Posts: 18
    Who thinks the 350Z is a little heavy? I mean its a 2 seater for cring out loud. I know it has to share its platform with the G35 but where is all that weight coming from ???
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    ..3,197 lbs is a lot for the new 350Z. To put it in perspective:

    That's only about 80 lbs less than the last 300ZX, and, I'm guessing here, about 900 - 1000 lbs more than the original 240Z? (which Nissan has claimed to be returning to, in spirit).

    That's 200 lbs more than my old 1984 Toyota Supra which carried four people and was generally criticized by the press as being too heavy.

    That's 200 lbs more than my 1995 Nissan Maxima. Within 30 lbs of a 2002 Maxima SE 6-speed.

    That's nearly 400 lbs more than my 2002 Honda S2000. That would be like me riding with Shaquille O'Neil in the passenger seat and 5 bowling balls in the trunk. Or vice-versa.

    Looking at the pictures, and considering that a coupe is generally lighter weight than a convertible, I would have thought Nissan could bring it in at 2,700 to 2,800 lbs without sacrificing too much "luxury" or comfort.

    I don't mean to be critical and I'm no engineer, but this may indeed be the compromised result of sharing sedan engine and chassis components rather than designing a sport coupe from the bottom up.
  • 92drexel92drexel Member Posts: 153
    Most of that weight has to be the engine. I think the VQ is a gem...but 3.5 liters is 3.5 liters, even if it is aluminum.

    But I still think it's a keeper! Both the engine and the car, that is.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    makes that much of a difference. The 2002 Maxima is only 25 lbs heavier than the 2001 (3.0 litre). Also, Porsche Boxter S with 3.2 liter and additional suspension upgrades required by convertible design still only comes in at 2,850 lbs +/-.

    I would like to hear Nissan's explanation.
  • ligartligart Member Posts: 109
    The last gen (90-96) models should start coming down in price. What do you think? Someone wanted to sell me his 94 TT with 18,000 miles for $28,500. :-O I declined ;-)
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    3200 is not that much if you consider the HP the cars going to make and the size of the engine...a vette will probably only make 50 more HP and it weighs 3200 about...a viper weighs 3400, a 911TT weighs about 3400, yes lots of the 4cilinder econo based cars weigh less but there engines dont make the torque to twist up the chassis or unibody...I bet the Z will be very very strong. The BMW M coupe weighs about 3200 as does the CLK 32 AMG, they understand the value of a strong body. As tuner cars go the Z will be much much stronger then say a S2000...
  • bruningbruning Member Posts: 1
    Most dealerships that are pricing $5000-$10000 over msrp have a very small allocation of Z's. Since pre-orders have production priority, these will be the first cars at the dealerships. If a car is preordered at $2000-4000 over and the preorder doesn't take delivery, then obviously the dealer has a unit in stock for retail delivery, (who knows how much over?) Like any popular vehicle, the first ones on the street will sell for plus money. (my buddy just paid $80k
    over window for a 360 Modena and was treated like garbage in the process!) As supply and popularity increases or decreases, so does pricing. If you want to preorder a Z, find a dealer with a larger allocation that is willing to price more in line with what you want to pay.
  • sphinx99sphinx99 Member Posts: 776
    I'm not worried about strong so much as agile. I've definitely gotten turned off to weight; even some of the world's best handling cars feel like boats next to a small nimble car. I've driven a 911 and a miata and can tell you which one *feels* more nimble.

    I'd say that the great challenge for a sports car is to balance agility with stability. Stability generally requires a measure of weight and traction. Agility in many cases is hurt by weight and traction. I'm not sure there is a "right answer" here as much as a spectrum of possible balances, upon which different cars sit. It looks like the 350Z is positioning itself a little closer to stability.

    3200lbs is a lot. I'm still very interested in the car. I think build quality and feel when I sit in it/hopefully have a chance to drive it will determine whether this car is for me or not. I want a 2-seater within the next twelve months and assumed the 350Z would be the one, but after enjoying the S2000's agility, I'm not sure I'm going to be attracted to the 350Z's apparent 2-seater GT cruiser mentality.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    ..disagree.

    I beleive a ground up two seater can be designed at a substantially lower weight than the 350Z, if that was a priority. The 911 RWD weighs 2910 with over 300 horsepower. Your comparison to an AWD 911TT does not consider the substantial weight an AWD system adds. The Ferrari 360 weighs 2,844 lbs with a V8 and 395 hp. I sure hope the 350Z wasn't aiming at either the Corvette (which with it's 5.7 liter V8 weighs 3,116 lbs) or the Viper, which, with it's 8.0 liter V-10 has about as much finesse as a Mack Truck.

    I don't fault Nissan for trying to make the most of their existing technology and components to save money and hit a relatively affordable price point. After all, the 350Z MSRP will be about $120,000 less than the Ferrari. But I would not agree that this doesn't produce some compromises that even the Honda S2000 didn't have to make, due to Honda's willingness/ability to produce a ground up 2-seater that doesn't share major components with their sedans.

    I think the 350Z looks to be a great car. But it would be even greater at about 300-400 lbs less.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 17,558
    I'm sure your friend has the money and isn't complaining now that he has such a wonderful car:)

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD

  • brew1974brew1974 Member Posts: 18
    I know all you guys want motorcycle HP to weight ratios, but there is something to be said for a strong body and solid feeling ride.
  • charliemikecharliemike Member Posts: 87
    Because I haven't seen it explained clearly so far ...

    The reason the 6MT Touring is so much more than the 5AT Touring model is that the 6MT includes everything from the Performance Model that the Touring does not.

    It's worth the extra money.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    For all the light weight fans...BMW may be coming out with an ultra light weight (think 2300lbs) and High HP car in the Z lineup.... High HP is relative I know but a 2300lb car with 230hp is like a 3000lb car with 300! It will be in the Z series hopefully in less then 4 years...
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Brew- I don't want to beat a dead horse, but you missed my point or at least my intent. I'm not opposed to the new Z's power to weight ratio. I am opposed to it's excess weight. A two seater, in my book, should be agile and nimble. Weight is an enemy of that, no matter how much horsepower or tire tread width you attach to it. Yes, a strong body and frame is important. But I haven't seen too many complaints of weakness directed at the 911 or Modena (or S2000, for that matter). You sure as hell don't need 3,200 lbs in a two seater to get a strong frame and solid feeling car with today's affordable composite material technology.

    rezo: Same comment. Getting a car that weighs an extra 300-400 pounds to accelerate well is easy. Just add horsepower and torque. But getting it to changes directions quickly and feel responsive is a challenge.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    Ok think about this.... If you have two cars the same hp/weight ratio, the same wheel base, the same coificent of friction tires, except car B weighs 2X that of car A which one will turn and handle better? they will have the same handeling because the the force of friction = U (coificent of friction) * the Normal force
    the normal force will be 2X greater in the heavy car to ballance out the greater inertia of the heavy car I = Velocity * weight
    SO ignoring the fact that the tires will have to be phisically stronger the two cars only method of exerting force to turn is the friction of the tires, and the cars only oposition to rotational accileration (turning) is its inertia (lets say coificent of wind resistance (drag coeff) is the same).
  • BlakJackBlakJack Member Posts: 18
    "they will have the same handling because the the force of friction"

    Back to Newton's F=ma. In our example: (The Force opposing the friction force on the tire) = (Mass of the car) * (Acceleration of the car turning, ~0.85 g). Wouldn't a 350Z that weight 10% less require at least 10% less friction from its tires?

    The reason I used "at least" is that there are other considerations in cornering if a car is to weigh more:
    longer breaking distance, heavier wear on the tires, and slower acceleration out of the turn. If the extra weight of the 350Z was not a result of a more rigid body, then in a turn there will be more body role too.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    ..I guess we'll just have to see how the 350Z at 3,200 lbs handles when it hits the showrooms.

    But, since the Super Bowl is coming up, why don't we see too many "agile" 275 lb running backs? Surely it's not because they don't have the strength. I'm a Steeler fan and think "The Bus" is about the most agile 255 pounder in the game, but he's no Jim Brown.

    I have a buddy with a M.S. in Mechanical Engineering from Duke. I'll email him this question regarding weight and post his answer. I'm just a dumb MBA, so I judge everything by feel.

    Cheers.
  • aftyafty Member Posts: 499
    Wouldn't a 350Z that weighs 10% less require at least 10% less friction from its tires?

    But a car that weighs 10% more would be able to generate 10% more friction at the tires. Remember that frictional force is equal to normal force * coefficient of friction. Coefficient of friction is related to the material and should be constant here, so basically frictional force is directly proportional to the weight of the car.

    Sorry to continue this conversation, but I can't help it. I was a physics major in college. :-)
  • cyranno99cyranno99 Member Posts: 419
    hmmm... just using fuzzy logic and assumption, someone can assume that the more weight a car has would have more friction from the tires. Therefore, the car would be able to stick to corners better hence better performance number.... I can't help it... I want to confuse the confused more :)
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I'm going to load up all my old York barbells into my S2000 and see what that baby can really do!!

    And, come to think of it, the hell with my New Year's resolution to lose 15 pounds.
  • dgraves1dgraves1 Member Posts: 414
    Not again! Didn't we go through this a few month's ago. Rezo (and afty) had it right, at least from a very simplistic physics approach. If you double the weight, you double the friction force available but you also double the lateral force, so the net result is there is no difference.
    Of course, simple physics would also say that a wide tire offers no advantage over a skinny tire, so we know that your junior high school physics will not tell you much about how cars behave in the real world.
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Member Posts: 363
    while cyranno is partially correct, he is not fully correct.

    You will get more friction in a corner, but that added traction alone will not help you to stick to corners any better, because you have more of a moment of inertia when you will turn.
  • wishnhigh1wishnhigh1 Member Posts: 363
    "Of course, simple physics would also say that a wide tire offers no advantage over a skinny tire, so we know that your junior high school physics will not tell you much about how cars behave in the real world."

    Exactly...this is far from a high school textbook problem. It requires quite a bit more than just simple logic and a physics book.
  • BlakJackBlakJack Member Posts: 18
    .. until u can solve this riddle:

    Fuzzy Wuzzy wuzz a bear,
    Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.
    Fuzzy wuzzy wazzn't fuzzy;
    Now wuz he?
  • drivebywiredrivebywire Member Posts: 20
    350 concept was designed by Diane Allen of Nissan N America division. In NAIS, I saw women were equaly interested in this design as men ...

    Here are some pics:


    image

    image

    image

  • revdrluvrevdrluv Member Posts: 417
    Car magazine recently tested a pre-production model and weight didn't seem to be an issue with them. This is what they had to say about it for those you haven't read it yet.

    "Initial impressions are of excellent handling, thanks to the structurally rigid rear-wheel-drive chassis," and "The Z corners with benign understeer and a bit of suspension compliance, giving way to a high-grip neutrality. Lift the throttle mid-corner, though, and the tail moves out of line. This supple suspension means the car won't crash or skate over bumpy surfaces. All we'd ask for is a quicker turn-in and better on-center feel."

    This is of course an unfinished model but it is probably a pretty good indication of how the production version will be. Nothing said about too much body-roll or problems with porkiness. Not that I form opinions based on these articles but Car is usually pretty critical (more so than the American mags anyway IMO). Sounds like a good start to being a real winner. I look forward to taking a test drive.
  • rezo00rezo00 Member Posts: 103
    why do wider tires increase traction? assuming the rubber is the same NOT because of different friction but because they dont heat up as much due to greater surface area....Drag cars use big fat huge tires so they wont melt. Why do wider tires have lower temp? because the force per square inch of tire surface is less even though the total friction exerted by the tires is the same as the narrow tires...all tires have to be warmed up but the narrow ones get TOO warm and melt which actually may decrease there friction in high performance conditions (decrease coifficent of friction).
    P.S. Im not a physics major but I am a MechE major...so physics major jokes dont apply to me...hehe
  • BlakJackBlakJack Member Posts: 18
    The 350Z and I have 2 things in common:

    1) We both have a nice azz.

    2) Girls like to look at us.
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