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How many RWD front engine cars does Honda make? Oh...one. How many 240 hp 4 cylinder 2 liter engines does Honda make? Oh, one. Wow, I can see how Honda's so amazingly clever. One engine, one platform all going toward a limited production vehicle. I can understand how they lose money on it.
The 350Z is NOT intended to be a niche car. It's meant to be a return to the Z's roots...an affordable RWD sports car. I don't know of another decent 280+ HP RWD sports car with fully independent suspension that I can buy for 26k. Do you?
The Z and S2000 are two very different breeds of cat.
I also dont like Navigation either. I never use in my current car....I always know where to go
"Had Nissan come out with one or two models in the $35k+/- price range, I'd have more confidence in the product meeting my expectations and desires."
Last time Nissan went for the $35K+ sports car they lost their shirt. Remember the 300ZX?. The 350Z is an affordable mainstream sports car not an exclusive vehicle. If you want exclusivity go buy a Porsche or wait till Nissan launches the Skyline GT-R (R35) with an Infiniti Badge. Save your pennies.
- Chief Production designer, told race & track, that 350z will be a competition to TT,Boxter S, and S2000.
- Ghosn, in Detroit auto show introduction, said that this car will be 30k car with 50k performance.
I think this car has beaten the competition as well performance/price estimate.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
Every cruise control should disengage when you hit the clutch as well, but mine didn't. Scared the hell out of me when I discovered that fact.
Compared to the mass produced 350Z (using the same chassis as the G35/Skyline) the limited production S2000 IS exclusive. If you don't understand the term...go look it up. I thought putting the definition in my last post was enough, but apparently I was mistaken.
<< I have driven a S2000 and they pretty weak until you get the rpms up close to the redline. Secondly, Nissan is producing "2-4K" Z's a month (approx. 30,000 this year) for the WORLD market.>>
The performance of the S2000 is not the issue. We were talking about exclusivity - there's a huge difference. If they only make 300 45 HP mustard colored Dodge Neon 1 cylinder twin turbos in a year that is an exclusive car, regardless of its performance.
No matter how you slice it the Z is a mass produced sports car, designed to meet the desires of the masses...not a niche market. The S2000 is a narrowly defined convertible with a very specific target market.
Performance-wise, I'd expect the Z and the S2000 to be close (that is until NISMO comes up with a turbo-charger). I think that the S2000 weighs 400 lbs less than a Z, so that'll make-up for its engine's horsepower and torque disadvantage.
Just my 2 cents...
A 911 GT2 will come close to wiping the floor with Ferrari's 360 Modena! Plus, you take a GT2, send it to Ruf and make it an RTurbo and it WILL wipe the floor with almost every production Ferrari!
So, no, Porsche is NOT a peasant's Ferrari!
I love the new Z, but if Nissan is going to make a G35 coupe, sign me up! I love the 255hp VQ engine in my 02 Maxima SE! It has gobs of power.
That's only about 80 lbs less than the last 300ZX, and, I'm guessing here, about 900 - 1000 lbs more than the original 240Z? (which Nissan has claimed to be returning to, in spirit).
That's 200 lbs more than my old 1984 Toyota Supra which carried four people and was generally criticized by the press as being too heavy.
That's 200 lbs more than my 1995 Nissan Maxima. Within 30 lbs of a 2002 Maxima SE 6-speed.
That's nearly 400 lbs more than my 2002 Honda S2000. That would be like me riding with Shaquille O'Neil in the passenger seat and 5 bowling balls in the trunk. Or vice-versa.
Looking at the pictures, and considering that a coupe is generally lighter weight than a convertible, I would have thought Nissan could bring it in at 2,700 to 2,800 lbs without sacrificing too much "luxury" or comfort.
I don't mean to be critical and I'm no engineer, but this may indeed be the compromised result of sharing sedan engine and chassis components rather than designing a sport coupe from the bottom up.
But I still think it's a keeper! Both the engine and the car, that is.
I would like to hear Nissan's explanation.
over window for a 360 Modena and was treated like garbage in the process!) As supply and popularity increases or decreases, so does pricing. If you want to preorder a Z, find a dealer with a larger allocation that is willing to price more in line with what you want to pay.
I'd say that the great challenge for a sports car is to balance agility with stability. Stability generally requires a measure of weight and traction. Agility in many cases is hurt by weight and traction. I'm not sure there is a "right answer" here as much as a spectrum of possible balances, upon which different cars sit. It looks like the 350Z is positioning itself a little closer to stability.
3200lbs is a lot. I'm still very interested in the car. I think build quality and feel when I sit in it/hopefully have a chance to drive it will determine whether this car is for me or not. I want a 2-seater within the next twelve months and assumed the 350Z would be the one, but after enjoying the S2000's agility, I'm not sure I'm going to be attracted to the 350Z's apparent 2-seater GT cruiser mentality.
I beleive a ground up two seater can be designed at a substantially lower weight than the 350Z, if that was a priority. The 911 RWD weighs 2910 with over 300 horsepower. Your comparison to an AWD 911TT does not consider the substantial weight an AWD system adds. The Ferrari 360 weighs 2,844 lbs with a V8 and 395 hp. I sure hope the 350Z wasn't aiming at either the Corvette (which with it's 5.7 liter V8 weighs 3,116 lbs) or the Viper, which, with it's 8.0 liter V-10 has about as much finesse as a Mack Truck.
I don't fault Nissan for trying to make the most of their existing technology and components to save money and hit a relatively affordable price point. After all, the 350Z MSRP will be about $120,000 less than the Ferrari. But I would not agree that this doesn't produce some compromises that even the Honda S2000 didn't have to make, due to Honda's willingness/ability to produce a ground up 2-seater that doesn't share major components with their sedans.
I think the 350Z looks to be a great car. But it would be even greater at about 300-400 lbs less.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
The reason the 6MT Touring is so much more than the 5AT Touring model is that the 6MT includes everything from the Performance Model that the Touring does not.
It's worth the extra money.
rezo: Same comment. Getting a car that weighs an extra 300-400 pounds to accelerate well is easy. Just add horsepower and torque. But getting it to changes directions quickly and feel responsive is a challenge.
the normal force will be 2X greater in the heavy car to ballance out the greater inertia of the heavy car I = Velocity * weight
SO ignoring the fact that the tires will have to be phisically stronger the two cars only method of exerting force to turn is the friction of the tires, and the cars only oposition to rotational accileration (turning) is its inertia (lets say coificent of wind resistance (drag coeff) is the same).
Back to Newton's F=ma. In our example: (The Force opposing the friction force on the tire) = (Mass of the car) * (Acceleration of the car turning, ~0.85 g). Wouldn't a 350Z that weight 10% less require at least 10% less friction from its tires?
The reason I used "at least" is that there are other considerations in cornering if a car is to weigh more:
longer breaking distance, heavier wear on the tires, and slower acceleration out of the turn. If the extra weight of the 350Z was not a result of a more rigid body, then in a turn there will be more body role too.
But, since the Super Bowl is coming up, why don't we see too many "agile" 275 lb running backs? Surely it's not because they don't have the strength. I'm a Steeler fan and think "The Bus" is about the most agile 255 pounder in the game, but he's no Jim Brown.
I have a buddy with a M.S. in Mechanical Engineering from Duke. I'll email him this question regarding weight and post his answer. I'm just a dumb MBA, so I judge everything by feel.
Cheers.
But a car that weighs 10% more would be able to generate 10% more friction at the tires. Remember that frictional force is equal to normal force * coefficient of friction. Coefficient of friction is related to the material and should be constant here, so basically frictional force is directly proportional to the weight of the car.
Sorry to continue this conversation, but I can't help it. I was a physics major in college. :-)
And, come to think of it, the hell with my New Year's resolution to lose 15 pounds.
Of course, simple physics would also say that a wide tire offers no advantage over a skinny tire, so we know that your junior high school physics will not tell you much about how cars behave in the real world.
You will get more friction in a corner, but that added traction alone will not help you to stick to corners any better, because you have more of a moment of inertia when you will turn.
Exactly...this is far from a high school textbook problem. It requires quite a bit more than just simple logic and a physics book.
Fuzzy Wuzzy wuzz a bear,
Fuzzy Wuzzy had no hair.
Fuzzy wuzzy wazzn't fuzzy;
Now wuz he?
Here are some pics:
"Initial impressions are of excellent handling, thanks to the structurally rigid rear-wheel-drive chassis," and "The Z corners with benign understeer and a bit of suspension compliance, giving way to a high-grip neutrality. Lift the throttle mid-corner, though, and the tail moves out of line. This supple suspension means the car won't crash or skate over bumpy surfaces. All we'd ask for is a quicker turn-in and better on-center feel."
This is of course an unfinished model but it is probably a pretty good indication of how the production version will be. Nothing said about too much body-roll or problems with porkiness. Not that I form opinions based on these articles but Car is usually pretty critical (more so than the American mags anyway IMO). Sounds like a good start to being a real winner. I look forward to taking a test drive.
P.S. Im not a physics major but I am a MechE major...so physics major jokes dont apply to me...hehe
1) We both have a nice azz.
2) Girls like to look at us.