Mazda6 Sedan

forlop

I would appreciate if somebody who already bought or test drove the 6 could comment on noise and ride quality especially who drove more than a hour. The noise level and ride quality realy gets on my nerve in my protoge when I drive a lot even though I don't mind it when I drive it at local.

I cann't find a Mazda6 at local dealers here since I am living at a small town of NC. I am struggling with the idea to get accord now or wait for 6 to arrive and price reachs a reasonable level. I read some reviews that mentioned about excess road noise and compromised ride quality in exchange of sportness. The odd thing about it is that Mazda publications said that 6 is so quiet that they cut soundproofing materials in half (What happened here?).

I test drove 2002 version (old version) accord found that the noise level is excess as midsize sedan. Honda fixed this in their 2003 version. I wish 6 is quiet too in addition to sportness.

comments will be appreciated.

stretchsje

The only intrusive noise is the engine, and this is intentional. Road and wind noise is minimal, although not quite as quiet as the Camry.

fowler3

Welcome to the Mazda6 forum. I test-drove a Mazda6s not long ago and found it to be very smooth and quiet. I, too, have a Protegé and the road noise and ride leave something to be desired if the car's sporty nature doesn't really appeal to you. The Mazda6 has the great handling of the Protegé with a smooth, quiet engine and little tire noise. Just what I was looking for and the size is great.

None of the things you dislike about the Protegé.

Where in NC do you live? I live near Greensboro and Mazda dealers here have 6's in stock. The dealer in High Point has eight in these colors: 1 Silver, 2 Steel Grey, 2 Onyx Black, 2 Yellow, and 1 Redfire.

DO check out the Mazda6 before buying an Accord.

fowler3

edmund2460

I have had the same concerns as Forlop, being the owner of a 2001 Pro, so it's reassuring to read Fowler's (and others) comments about the ride. I'm not ready to buy yet (the small dealer in my town has yet to get one in) but in my mind the Accord has a slight edge. I found that I discounted the harsh ride of the PRO that much till I had driven the car for a couple of months. I guess I found out that I really put a higher premium on ride and comfort. IMHO being able to zip around curves at higher speeds has not much value. BTW, some of the early review of the PRO did not seem to bring up the ride as a negative. One example of this is CR which only recently cited this as a reason for not making it a top choice in that segment.

choe13

handling, brakes, interior and external cues, and price definitely go to the Mazda 6, we have engine, transmission, overall quality as stale mate, where the accord will only get reliability edge, just by slight since the 6 is still new. I don't think accord has anything going for it, except for its reputation which eventaully will wear down if there is nothing else to help that.

Have you seen the desert commencial for the 6?? Test a mazda 6 and you won't be disappointed.

choe13

WHO ELSE SAW THE DESERT COMMERCIAL FOR THE 6?? i want to get one now!!!

dinu01

I can see why some folks say the PRO's ride is harsh - and it is with those 15" RE92 Potenzas. I changed tires from 195/55/15 (stock) to 195/60/15 and found that with even a change this slight in sidewally height, the ride improved a little w/no adverse effects on cornering ability.

That being said I prefer the harsh ride and the feedback it provides through the steering and seats over a hushed-up Corolla-style ride with no road feel.

On the highway I have done a few 5+hr trips in the PRO and while not the quietest car, I don't mind it.

I understand though that this (noise - especially from the OEM tires) is NOT the PRO's forte.

As fas as the 6 goes, from what I've read Mazda got it right - a nice engine sound without all those hard bumps so common in the PRO.

Dinu

dinu01

I saw one with a 6 driving somewhere on a tight European-looking road and at the end it drives in the desert and turns/fishtails to carve a "6" ion the desert's sand. Saw it at a movie theatre.

Where did you see it?

Dinu

fowler3

What the Accord will lack after the new wears off is what car magazines call "entertainment value." The Protegé has this and that's why most buyers are happy with it. Older Pro owners are more interested in ride comfort and low noise/vibration. If they live where there are few curves, such as in NC and SC, then handling and small turning circles are only useful in parking lots. Ditto for the beige trim, it's part of the comfort factor, a more pleasant invironment.

One car magazine advised about another brand and model, "If you don't like the interior, the fabric color, the dash, don't buy the car, you will quickly come to hate it." I agree! I bought a dark blue 1997 Accord with a dark grey interior -- to hide the black steering wheel, which I don't like -- in a short time I was very unhappy with that car. Your time is spent driving it, not sitting on a fence admiring the car's styling. No matter how beautiful the sheet metal, the interior is what really counts in the longrun.

Now that Mazda has worked out a rear suspension that combines handling with ride comfort, maybe the next Protegé (Mazda3) will benefit from it. Those who want more power and room will opt for the 6. The hardest decision with the 6 is color choice: too few colors and good trim/color combinations. I wish Mazda had offered new, stylish metallics, the way the Nissan Altima does, rather than the old colors they have used for years. Maybe with the 2004 models.

fowler3

wgr

Is the MPS the next Mazda3 or what ? When is the 3 due in the US ?

gee35coupe

Is if they stop doing what really made them one of the top selling cars. It's not the fact that the Accord/Camry is on of the best NEW cars to buy, it's that nearly everyone and their mother has had a USED one. If Honda keeps making cars that can go over 200,000 miles with little maintenance then they will not have to worry about anyone else for a while. I know in my case I have heard that "a Honda will run forever" or most of my life. Not only will it run but most of the accessories still work and the upholstery holds up too. When/if they cheapen the cars and end up producing 400,000 cheap used cars every year that's when their fortunes will suffer.

I mean lets be realistic, they made 1.2 million of the last generation Accord/Camry and yet there are no REAL terminal widespread issues for the cars. That bodes well for seeing a LOT of Accords around for a LONG time. The same applies to the Civic.

I'm going to disagree with the "entertainment value" also. Everyone knows what they are getting when it comes to the "family sedan" segment. The Mazda may have that "sport sedan" segment down pat,
but even when the Camry tried to make a sporty version it didn't sell. This isn't the segment for outright sportiness.

mike1770

Forlop, I've had my 6s for about a week now. I am very pleased with the ride quality -- it seems taught, but very supple. Bumps which used to make me flinch in my Prelude now seem almost unnoticable. Keep in mind that the Prelude is my standard of comparison -- I test drove an Accord, but can't really compare it on my daily driving route. I have the 6s without the sport package. I test drove a sport-package-equipped one, and thought that road noise was significantly more noticable with the 17" tires. I'm not really sure how much the larger tires affect the ride.

I was on my way to the dealer this morning to have the 6-disc CD changer installed, and traffic was light on the freeway. Without realizing it, I was doing about 85 mph. You can hear some road and engine noise, but it's very muted. I was easily able to carry on a normal conversation at this speed. I would expect the Accord/Camry to be quiet as well, of course, but this car is definitely MUCH quieter and smoother riding than my Prelude.

It would probably be a good idea, if possible, to test drive all the cars you're interested in on the same day, to make a valid comparison on which is the quietest.

choe13

yeah man that one in the threatre...... other than the nissan altima, best car commercial i have seen ever.

choe13

Mazda Mps will be a crazy car. It has 300 hundred + horsepower running on an all wheel drive format, majestic interior with leather sports seats and every other high quality sport trimming, special skirts, ground effects, spoiler, brembo brakes, and offered on only steel grey i presume. I think it will definitely give cars such as Audi s4, bmw M3/M5, Mercedez amg sedans, jaguar r type, etc a run for its money.

vadp

BTW Mazda MPS awd concept is a souped up Mazda6 with a turbocharged 2.3 engine, which is good for almost 300hp.

WRX, TSX fighter...

jaclaz

ReSale.....

If audia8q's post here on Dec 21, 2002 (12:44 pm)
is correct than the info below about what looks to be Trade-In value would put an $18,530 6i at $7,400 after just 4 years....

This is why Accord/Camry rule the sales charts.

Mazda credit caps the mileage on a lease to 25K per year....figure 15 cents per mile...money factor based on very good credit.

here are the rates and resids for the northeast

maz6i ... maz6s
39 mo...44% 46%
.00185 .00185

48 mo ... 40% 41%
.00201 .00219

24 months 52%... 54%
.00147 .00147
add 3 points to all residuals for 12K year.

Christmas day I went down to the lot and also noticed some other perturbing issues.

Another issue is one de-contenting the "I"....
Look to the heater controls, they are state of the art in the industry right now in the "s" yet the "i" retains Protege style controls. Honda didn't do this to it's low-end ($16,000) DX Accord. I've seen this on the '03 Forester as well. Buy the entry model get Impreza controls, get the Premium Forester and get what has become standard across the industry style heater controls. I know some will say the heater is Climate controlled so it requires different facia in the "s" but I feel "i" buyers are shorted here. The brochure only shows the "s" dash.

It makes me wonder if Mazda de-contented the car elsewhere...
Like those buckets... don't they look smallish in the "i"....?

Sorry, just thought it needed mentioning to all those perspective buyers to take a closer look.

dinu01

300+HP w/ a turbo from an I4 engine? Sweet! AWD to get you going, Brembos to stop you? Wow! It sure sounds like all I could ever dream of in a car. Not afford it mind you, but still have a wallpaper of it:)

Dinu

dinu01

I actually like that the 6 comes in normal colours like bright red and look-at-me yellow, instead of the usual "xyz metallic" all other cars come it. If the PROs came in bright red - think fire truck red or that cool rally blue they now have or even yellow I would have chosen that over silver...

Dinu

choe13

yeah mica blue and yellow (mazda MP3) colors look real good on this car, plus its unique to its class. The red looks amazing too(looking from mazda 6 wagon pics). But dinu the silver and steel grey colors are something else and also unique for its class, because it aint no dull metallic, like you see on most cars of its class and lower, my friend told me, its closer to a Mercedez metallic paint job(of course not as rich, but alot of real metallic sparkle).

adamporter

OK, I drove both the i and the s and love both. I am definitely buying the s version. I am planning to go for the moonroof, sport package, and possibly the Bose audio.

2 questions:

1. Unfortunately, I'm not crazy about the colors. (I know a lot of you are excited about them!) I've been driving a black MX-3 for 10 years. My wife's Jetta is white. I wanted a maroon, navy, or hunter green but the red/yellow/blue are just too hot for me. (Of course, the Mazda showroom has these colors all over the place, just not on the 6!) I'm considering the dark grey, as it's the only one I consider close to passable. Are good after-market paint jobs impossible and ridiculously expensive and just a bad idea? What kind of price range is reasonable to expect? Any advice for pursuing/abandoning this?

2. If I don't go for the Bose audio upgrade, how do I intelligently research a good after-market stereo? I assume I'd have to (unfortunately) sacrifice the in-dash changer? How do I find the best bang for the buck, and how do I know if installation might be suboptimal in the 6?

Many thanks all!

-Adam

PS: I love this car.

ashutoshsm

Congrats on the decision to buy the 6s, keep us posted!

1. From everything I've heard, the $250-500 ads from AAMCO (or something) for paintjobs are absolutely terrible. Any truly decent paintjob will cost a few (3-6) thousand smackeroos.
2. A 6-CD changer is available as a Port or Dealer installed option for $500. Compare that to the $635 for Bose which nets you the changer as well as a sub and amps. Of course, Bose systems ususally sound too weird (all the wrong emphases and 'noise' reduction) to me, so I MIGHT look into getting only the CD changer, but Bose MAY be most people's best bet. Ask a few dealers whether they expect the CD-changer (non-Bose) to be available soon.

After market systems may be a VERY complicated proposition given the Mazda 6's dash layout, and I would avoid going that route unless I started to really miss having satellite radio available (XM, not Sirius Of course, I'll probably be car-shopping many months from now, so perhaps someone will come out with after-market harnesses for the Mazda 6 in the interim - I understand these're now finally available for other complex dash designs (eg. Ford Taurus) etc as well.

adamporter

Forgot to mention my reasons for choosing this fine machine. I compared it to the 6-cylinder Jetta, the Nissan Altima, and the Subaru WRX.

I found the Mazda 6s to be more powerful, responsive, and fun to drive than all of the above, with the possible exception of the Subaru. (Of course, the Mazda is also a few thousand cheaper than the Subaru, better looking than the Subaru, and the Subaru doesn't have any kind of moon/sunroof.)

To ashutoshsm-

Thanks very much for the input! I feared that ($3-6K) might be the case. My dealer did indeed offer to add the changer for the price you mention, though it would be a trunk-mounted deal and it would be from Panasonic, Aiwa, or someone like that. I'm not really interested in the satellite radio thing (not worth extra cost to me) but I was thinking of installing something that could read MP3s. (I know the MP3 jukebox option would also have to be trunk-mounted.)

The Bose does seem to be the best/safest audio upgrade, but maybe I should find a way to listen to it before paying all that extra money.

-Adam

alitrad

Hi everybody !!!

 You guys are very lucky to have testdrive the mazda 6. We have to wait another full month, here in Canada. I read that most of you we're thrilled by the car.

 

 Does anybody know when the hatchback version we'll be for sale ? I heard many answers like this summer or next year...

 By the way, sorry for my english; it's not my first langage...

forlop

Thanks fowler3, edmund2460, mike1770 and others for your comments. Looks like it is worth to wait a month to test drive 6 before I will make any buying decision. I checked invoice price for a 6i with automatic, antilock brake, and side airbags comes out a little above 19000. Similar equiped Accord with auto and side airbag actually is about $500 less. I already test drove an accord and a camry and passat. It is good overall I have to say for accord except smallish trunk. It was rated #1 now at consumer report. That alone weighs heavily on my wife's opion. Passat is good but seems overpriced now comparing to accord or 6. Camry is quiet but too numb. Now only accord and 6 left in equation. Hopefully I can get hands on a 6i soon before waiting too long.

the_big_h

at the DC auto show today. I sat in both the cloth and the leather seats. Obviously the leather is much nicer, and I can also see how some people call the cloth seats "cheap", but I won't have a problem buying one with cloth. The cloth seats seem to be very dirt-proof.

seating position is excellent. Shifter I can't judge, because they took the darn shift knob off to prevent theft >:( Definitely not as clickity-click slick like a Honda shifter though.

speaking of Honda, I also sat in both the Accord coupe and sedan. They are very good in their own rights, with typical Honda quality that's way above any GM cars interior, including Cadillac.

yeah, that's all I have to say about that right now... I'll post some pics I took at the show later...

the_big_h

the smaller steering wheel on the 6 is just about PERFECT in shape and size, and the position between the wheel and the shifter is also very good, though still not as good as the 350Z (I sat in the Z and didn't want to leave :-D)

fowler3

I can e-mail a photo to you showing the sparkling mica flake in the Steel Grey. It's very bright and gives the color a sweet glow. Unlike most steel greys I have seen on SUVs and other sedans. I've become very conscious of greys after seeing Mazda's. Though darker than others, it makes the 6 look very up-market and would be beautiful with grey leather.

You may wonder how I can say this with all the posts I have made saying I don't like grey and black. Because I can't live with those colors (not the Oxford spelling) over time doesn't mean it isn't a nice combination. I think it is interesting that many buyers half my age are opting for Steel Grey rather than the sporty colors. (colours in Canada, UK, NZ, Australia, and India)

alitrad, no problem with the language and welcome to the forum.

fowler3

stretchsje

I'm finally going to pick up my new 6 tomorrow. Nobody was able to answer my previous question, so I'll repeat it.

It is coming with California emissions. I do not live in a state that mandates the low-sulfer fuel that low emissions equipment requires to work. Are there any adverse effects to this?

Thanks in advance. I have TWELVE HOURS before I hand the check over! Any information would be helpful.

markjenn

What information do you have that Calif emissions cars require some special low-sulfur fuel?

- Mark

vadp

<Take a look at this map:

http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/est/98/jun/4905coo1.ev.html

And the article:

http://pubs.acs.org/hotartcl/est/98/jun/put.html

vocus

I saw that commercial about a month ago on Fox, on a Sunday night during "The Simpsons".

edmund2460

My wife mostly did all the driving since we are looking for a replacement car for her. But we tested the 6,Accord,Camry and Altima. Very short drives around the block. The 6 is definitely vastly different from the PRO in ride comfort, bumps are soaked up without jarring. The wheel is not as taut in the center. Handles better than the Accord and probably rides better too in my opinion. We will wait a few months before we buy, however the wife maketh the decision and I'm afraid she will go along with the mainstream with the Accord based on space and the better interior appointments. While the Camry was the quietest she did not like the brakes and I didn't like the seats. She didn't like the engine roar on the Altima when pushed. I wish I had waited for the 6 and bought it instead of the PRO. BTW I got some derisive comments about Mazda from the Accord and Camry guys like "How can you compare a Ford product to a Honda/Toyota". Sales training is sorely lacking at these dealerships, you never want to say negative things about what the customer is driving, even if they are true. It pisses me off for sure. Also I see CarsDirect is willing to sell the Accord V6 close to invoice but the Mazda V6 at MSRP. I'm definitely going to wait till that changes, I hope..

dinu01

I understand your point of view. I too like the steel grey colour. It definitely makes the car look more upscale!

Dinu

fowler3

You are right about sales training.

**Sales training is sorely lacking at these dealerships, you never want to say negative things about what the customer is driving, even if they are true.**

Sales people should never bash competitor's products, instead, they should sell their product's merits. They should be taught how to move the customer up to the next model without demeaning the entry model (and the buyer's taste or pocketbook). This is why selling is an "art" and not everyone is good at it. The pros have it down. The average car salesman is in a temp job and why your salesman may not be there the next time you go to your dealer.

If you saw the Kia Christmas TV commercial you will know what I mean. Love the "sales monkey"!

fowler3

yugoboy

Im in total agreement, i almost died, that kia commercial is so funny!!!! It's all about the sales monkey!!!!

audia8q

How about saying something like...

"unlike the Honda, toyota and nissan the Mazda has a 4 year bumper to bumper warranty and roadside assistance, etc..."

This seems like fair game since its a true comparison to point out the competators weak points, not a unwarranted slam just factual info..

cubes

CA emissions are required not only in CA but also in the northeast.(I got this from a vehicle printout off of KBB.com) I'm not sure where you're buying the car, but here in New Jersey (according to KBB), it is mandatory.
I just checked the invoice for my 02 Mountaineer and it's on there as a N/C option. I couldn't find anything on the sticker for my 00 Millenia S though.
Considering that a certain number of vehicles sold do not stay in the same geographical area their entire life, I'm not so sure it makes that big of a difference.
Good luck with your car.

audia8q

I'm still trying to figure out the right option mix for my mazda6 inventory...The car has too many option choices to have the "right car" in-stock for everyone. We still havent determined what everyone wants. They are all over the board!!

Does anyone have interest in the side air curtains???

So far we have sold quite a few 6's and had lots of customers have test driven the car and only one person that I can think of listed the curtains as a must have.

gee35coupe

On carsdirect.

jaclaz

Thanks Richard for posting info. about Mazda Products.

If your (audia8q's) post here on Dec 21, 2002 (12:44 pm) is correct than the Residual info below may be what Trade-In value would be for $18,530 6i... just $7,400 after just 4 years....

As you said:
Mazda credit caps the mileage on a lease to 25K per year....figure 15 cents per mile...money factor based on very good credit.

here are the rates and resids for the northeast

maz6i ... maz6s
39 mo...44% 46%
.00185 .00185

48 mo ... 40% 41%
.00201 .00219

24 months 52%... 54%
.00147 .00147
add 3 points to all residuals for 12K year.

If these values hold true then it would better serve the purchaser to wait for the "6" to go on sale as all 626's have in the past. $18,000+ MSRP reduced to $14,995 sale. Then the $7,400 trade-in after 4 years depretiation wouldn't look so terrible. So I will wait a year and see a 2003 "6i" will be available for purchase come ThanksGiving 2003 for $15,000...

Yes I'm aware that many here will think this is different animal, but we only have to look at the AMATI ... Errr, Millenia "S" to see a great car, better than the "6" I believe which went the way of deep discounting and on to it's eventual demise.

This stampede will pass and the herd will graze once again among all the other critters like Accords/Camrys/Altimas, etc... At least until the new hero which I predict will be VW's revamp of the Golf/Jetta, ya know they have 4 Yr. Warranties too. Of course you have to use their warranty. HeHe.. Or maybe it'll be the new Acura entry level sedan? Or maybe everyone will have to have that new Legacy replacement.... There's always going to be greener grass.

That's why I love this industry. Always providing new improved, faster, more efficient toys!

Geez got off on a ramble....

forlop

I think I am on the same boat as you are. How do you rate the noise level in 6 comparing to 2002 version and 2003 version of accord? Ride quality of 6 seems acceptable and not an issue anymore from reading here. I am tring to convince my wife to delay the purchase right now. I hope I will not regrate it late on as local honda dealer has pretty good year end sales deal going on. Another thing is that 6 has higher price (around $500) than comparable accord.

merango

Just wondering if any of you have noticed, or believe, that the 6s will have slightly less sharp handling and maneuverability compared to the 6i given its heavier weight. That is, will getting the 6s with a lot more HP compromise the handling because of added heft? I'm deciding which model to go with, and I'm really interested in the more agile, better handling one, so if the sharp handling isn't overly sacrificed for the HP, I'll probably get the s model.

Also, any thoughts on the looks of the hatchback 6 compared to the sedan, and will people be waiting for it to come out before buying ?

Thanks

ashutoshsm

... I'm waiting for the hatch, and will probably prefer the 4 cylinder. Haven't driven the 6s yet, but have driven an auto and stick 6i. Comparisons are anecdotal, but the general consensus seems to be that the 6i is nimbler because of less heft, but not by too much.

For me, its more a case of 160HP being more than adequate, and fun enough, not to mention the more environmentally responsible choice (but only by a tiny bit!)

dinu01

I believe they're called GS and GT in Canada.

i-I4-GS
s-V6-GT

Dinu

mrdetailer

Well here in the mountain west all cars are sold with California emissions standards anyway. On cars, it's standards dominate the entire region. I haven't bought a car since the late 1970's that didn't have California emissions.

My son's 1997 Mazda is a LEV and also complies with California Emissions.

Fine with me, I'd just as soon have cleaner air anyway. At least now that the pollution controls don't kill gas mileage.

1wiseguy

I know it's the CDN version because it speaks in kilometers not miles and references the CDN trim packages (GS, GT).

Overall I'm still very excited about the car but was surprised by a few things:

1) only 4 versions here- I4 GS, I4 GT, V6 GS and V6 GT;

2) Warranty is 3 years 80,000km (so we get one less year and about the same mileage as our US friends);

3) Gt version comes with leather- GS does not- no way around that. I don't mind but some don't care for leather and don't consider it sporty;

4) Spoke with a salesperson (Ottawa, Ontario) and was told that the hatch will not be here til October or November 03;

5) Only 7 colours available- Glacier White, Canary Yellow, Redfire Metallic, Dark Grey, Black Onyx, Sonic Blue, and Glacier Silver Metallic.

6) Only 3 interior colours- beige, grey, black.

7) I saw a spec sheet with prices. I forgot to get a copy but can remember two: I4 GT $28,195; V6 GT $31,195.

8) First ones to arrive will be mid January and some are already pre-sold.

9) Both the I4 and V6 recommend regular unleaded. That's a relief. I currently drive a vehicle that requires premium and I'm getting downright tired of paying $0.85/litre.

If anyone reading this has bought one yet in Canada, please let the rest of us know how much you paid. I plan to buy one late Jan/early Feb but wont if I have to pay MSRP.

oldsman01

How many 6 Owners/Leasees are here? I took a brief test drive of a 6 today and was impressed. What attracted me to the dealer was their ad in which there were selling Millenia's for $19,990 but took a look at the 6 and decided the Millenia was yesterday's car. The model I drove had the V6 and nearly every option except for the sport package. MSRP was 24,3xx. To those who have purchased this car, how do you like it thus far and what kind of deal did you get? I thought the car was pretty well equipped, but it did lack a few things that I would prefer and really expect at this price. The 5 speed automatic with the ability to shift manually was nice and the V6 was smooth and revved well. I did notice that off the line acceleration was a bit slow, but once she got revved it the car really moved. From a styling standpoint, I really like the clean lines of the car and personally prefer it without the add ons the sport package gives you. If one could get the 17" wheels and optitron intruments alone it would be great. Traffic was too bad around the dealership and on the freeway to get a good test drive so I'll probably go back sometime after the holidays and take a more extended drive.

csuftitans

In today's LA Times, there's an ad by Claremont Mazda (about 30 miles east of Los Angeles) for
Two 6i - Auto for $16,988 (after $3,012 discount)
One 6i - auto, leather, moonroof, premium & comfort pckg for $18,988 (after $ $3,622 discount)

Don't know if this is still available or not, but if one dealer is discounting it, others will follow; I hope.

riopelle

will be a must-have for my next vehicle (6 wagon maybe?), as I will hopefully have kids in 3-4 yrs.

I would think all 6's should have side curtains. Aren't they about to be standard on passats and jettas? I can't imagine anyone turning down a car because it had them.

Just my 2 cents, Rich.

audia8q

Thanks for your input.

Despite what we all want to think, many consumers won't pay for safety features. I guess they don't value the features as much as we do.
So adding it as a standard feature would have little or no benefit to selling more cars, which is the goal...

I've been in a few bad car wrecks, so I appreciate the safety stuff, big time.