The residual after 36 months for an Accord LX is 54% as opposed to the 6i's residual of 44% That means after 3 years the Accord will be worth $2000 more. And don't use the "you'll pay more for an Accord to begin with" line because you can easily get an Accord LX for invoice right now.
It's no secret that the Accord has WAY better resale than the 626 and consequently it will have a higher resale value than the 6. If you want to dis the Accord you might do better sticking to the subjective categories like it's better looking or more fun to drive cause when it comes to "cold hard facts" the Accord wins this one hands down.
It depends on how much you would get for the Mazda by just giving it away to charity cause nobody is gonna want to buy it. The Accord on the other hand, if it's been well-maintained, will have no problems finding a new home. Just put it on the side of the street with a For Sale sign in it and somebody will buy it. Our friends just sold their 91 Accord with 140,000 miles, a busted headlight, needed a timing belt and 2 CV axles for $3500. We sold a 93 Accord with 140,000 miles on it for $4800 within 1 week of it hitting the autotrader. Those are both cars that had an original sticker price somewhere in the $16,000 range. That's 30% after 10 years. Only 11% less than the Mazda's 3 year residual value. Hmmm...
References brought up by the Mazda salesmen in here. Your car aint gonna be as popular as the Accord and wasn't designed to be. Stick with the zoom zoom thing because in any other facet of ownership the Cam/Cord crowd will eat you alive. And it ain't mythology unless you call Powers, , Kbb, Intellichoice, or Consumer Reports mythology.
Test drove both the 4 and 6 cylinder this weekend and was mighty impressed with both. I didn't think I was interested in the 6, but that power is *nice.*
As for the comments on whether 6 buyers will be interested in the stick shift, remember that some of the buyers will be current Miata or Protege owners with expanding families, looking for larger cars. (I'm looking to upgrade from a 2000 Miata due to our recent addition of a son to our family!)
What was the news on the hatch and wagon release? I missed that post and can't find it...
I did not see hooks to attach a cargo net, like I have in my 99 mill S. Also, what about mudflaps, are they of value with the sport model? And the auto-dimming mirror with compass and homelink, does this simply replace the existing mirror? and how large is it with the homelink?
These ad nauseam references to the almighty Accord are becoming a bit annoying. Could we please move these implicit/explicit comparisons to the appropriate boards and focus instead on the 6?
It appears that certain people who post here are not really interested in the 6 but want to incessantly let us know why Mazdas are 'inferior' to their beloved brands. I do not understand why people who recently chose a particular model over the 6 would continue to passionately follow a car (or its other siblings) that is not (totally) to their liking.
and the 6 isn't totally out of our future. Once the hatchback and wagon come over we will probably give the 6 another look. Hopefully by then it will have proven itself to be reliable and we will be able to judge the popularity to see if buying a new one is a financially wise decision.
rodlcw: **I did not see hooks to attach a cargo net, like I have in my 99 mill S.**
No hooks in the trunk, they must come with the cargo net when you order it. Dealer-installed.
** Also, what about mudflaps, are they of value with the sport model?**
Mud guards are not available if you buy the Sports Package. Must be the body cladding.
**And the auto-dimming mirror with compass and homelink, does this simply replace the existing mirror?**
Yes
**and how large is it with the homelink?**
Thicker, about the same width.
Skyray: **What was the news on the hatch and wagon release? I missed that post and can't find it..**
Danto, who works at the Flat Rock assembly plant, said the hatchback should be here in June. Go back to #5226 or beyond for his posts.
About value after 4 years. If I buy a 6, it will be my last car. At my age the only residual I am worried about is the number of driving years I have left. It will be a "keeper" for sure and a big catch at that.
If residual is all you are interested in, buy an Accord. Don't let us stop you. The real question is: 4 years from now do you want to be driving a $9,000 Accord or a $7000 Mazda6, and what would you be missing during those years, if it's the former?
With all the complaints and petty dislikes I have read here about the new 6's, it amazes me how close Mazda has come to building a nearly perfect car, considering all that is GOOD in them. And those who have already made a 6 purchase say that what bothered them no longer matters. They don't even think about it.
I bought Accords for 15 years: what drove me away were bad trades, dealer ripoffs, high service costs, and decontenting.
Test drove the 6 again yesterday, this time I got to put it through a few paces. Car was still a virgin(8 miles on the odo) so I had to take it easy. I agree with the person who says this car grows on you. I seemed to like it more after the second test drive. The sales force needs some training though. I knew as much about the car as either salesman did and all they really wanted to do was mention how it does this and that better than an Accord, Camry, or Altima. I threw the second salesman for a loop when I told him my current car was an Olds Intrigue and that the Camry and Accord do absolutely nothing for me. I know those three cars are the 6's major competitors, but the folks selling these need to realize that not everyone is interested in how the 6 beats those. As it stands, the 6 is a very impressive car and seems to be a decent value. I do question some of the feature grouping and lack of some features as have others here, but nearly all automakers do this. As for vehicle availablilty, neither dealer had a V6 model with the manual available for a test drive. The 5 speed automanual tranny is nice for this class, but I noticed in both test drives that it wants to wait until the last possible moment to downshift unless you just really lay into the gas. I'd like to try one with the manual and see how it feels. Anyone know if there is a way to turn off the "beep" sound everytime you adjust the radio or climate control? This was one thing I noticed when test driving the car. According to the brochure, an automatic dimming rearview mirror is available, however none of the cars on either dealers lot had this and one said it was not available at all now and the other said it is a dealer installed option. Also, neither dealer knew anything of XM or Sirius radio ever being offered on the 6. The 4 year/50K bumper to bumper warranty is a nice extra as most cars in this range are 3/36. I'm not in the immediate market right now so I may hold off a while and see what kind of deals start to materialize. Personally, I really hope the 6 succeeds as it seems like a very nice overall package.
The dealer that I dealt with said they were able to find a 6 that I wanted with the right stuff: Auto, Sport Pack, Comf Pack, Leather, Moonroof, Side air bags & curtains.... But the other dealers were not willing to trade..& they don't want to tell me which dealers had it, they want me to order one thourgh them......I have been to 3 dealerships and only one had a 6s with sport pack, leath etc etc...Seems not many of the cars have the airbags & curtains... having been in two roll-overs, this is something I don't think I want to give up...
I bet the average resale price of an 140000 mile old Accord is not $4800... You can read that from Internet. Just because you did a good job of selling (and possibly) maintaining your car, you can't speak for everyone. I will never pay more than $1,500 for a car that old. You probably love Accord too much and that's okay as long as you do not start acting as the Vice President of Marketing of Honda.
The car, although not sure of the long term reliability, just plain out performs better than most of the other cars I looked at or drove. here is my take ranked based on my top 5 considerations.
Body style price as tested all automatics:
1. mazda 6 26,000 2. volvo 40 28,000 3. audi A4 27,000 4. Maxima 29,000 5. Accord 25,000
interior:
Goes to mazda a lot for the buck. like front room in accord and maxima but other than that they are not a sporty.
handling
the mazda just blew them away in turns. Only thing mazda could have done better would be the turnaround distance for u-turns seemed a bit wide.
breaking.
Loved the Mazda
initial speed
love the maxima.
Passing speed:
all of them have enough.
cornering:
The mazda by a long shot.
comfort:
backseat with the mazda leather. Front seat to the Audi.
The big question is how will the reliability be? I think this car will not be compared much more to the accord,camry or maxima as they do not handle the same nor really seam in the same class. I would put the volvo, accord, camry and maxima in the family sedan class and the mazda in the sports sedan. You have to drive it to understand. I think a lot of people will not like the way it rides or handles. It is very much like a BMW or european sports car not a family sedan. All of these cars are great but my hat goes out to MAZDA for this winner. I think the biggest competition for mazda will be the new ACURA or Subaru WRX the others are more for family types who like a smother ride.
It's not Anony. Before it was Mazda6. Now 3 more references. If there really was no interest in Accord comparisons there would be no mention by anyone but her.
Check kbb.com. The private owner value for a good condition 1993 Accord with 140,000 miles in the 30141 area code is $4100. We sold the Accord about a year ago. It may not be "Average" but we have a reference. The same on we used at the time to price ours.
"Once the hatchback and wagon come over we will probably give the 6 another look" What happened to the horrible residual value issue? Or, do you think the residual will go from 44% to 54% in a few months?
I agree, the 6 is more of a sport sedan than it's primary competitors(which shall remain nameless). I also agree alot with your review. The car loves curves. Ride wise, I thought the ride was plenty smooth. In fact, it really handled rough spots and bumps well. Took them much smoother than my Olds does. In fact, thats one of the things that really impressed me with the 6. It handles very well, yet it still retains a very composed ride, much like a more expensive luxury/sport sedan does.
If the most important thing to you is residual value, then you should buy a VW Passat. According to ALG, the Passat has the highest 3-year residual value for mid-size cars. Not the Accord, not the Camry, and as we all know, not the Mazda6.
the TSX and Mazda are going to be a very close fight. But thought the tsx will be have a more powerful engine, the mazda 6 still beats it in the handling department. They are pretty much the same in everything else, except that the 6 is at least 5 thousand dollar cheaper. Thats not very fair comparison(even though the 6 doesn't lose or win) and its pretty sad that honda has to resort to its top division of acura to soup up the accord, to even stand a chance against the 6.
I realize depreciation is a big part of your decision if you trade in a car every three years, but geez, I get tired of hearing about it here. I plan to keep my next car for 15 or 20 years. Seriously. But then again, I don't drive very many miles a year. I would keep my 12-year old Camry for at least another 5 years, but...it's a Camry.
Oh, and fowler, as a Camry owner I'm deeply insulted. Of course, I needed to buy a second car, for a short commute, quickly, and wanted a cheap used car, and hadn't paid much attention to cars, having lived car-free in New York for eight years. So no, I'll never buy another Camry knowing more about the alternatives. Still, and seriously, I disagree with your comments for two reasons. 1) You're judging people by appearances (and not just the appearance of their car). Do interesting people always look interesting when they drive by? No. 2) You're propagating the whole judge-people-by-their car attitude that I hate. That's why so many people in this country have gas-guzzling, dangerous (to car drivers) SUVs when what they really NEED is a van. But no one wants to be seen in a van, because they know other people will be judging them by what they drive.
Anyway, you can slam Camrys all you want, but unless you've met all 500-gazillion Camry owners in this country, you have no basis to judge them.
Enough ranting. Is it possible the 6 residuals will go up, because they're currently based on the 626, and 6 owners will want to keep their cars longer?
10 days ago I test-drove a fully loaded 6s with 5-speed manual (see post 5033). Today I took my wife to test drive a fully loaded 6s with auto. Here is what I noticed during my wife’s test drive.
As I motioned in my first test drive, although the car is fast and has more then adequate power, it’s just not press you against your seat fast, you don’t get this powerful feel of thrust when you push the car. Also the fun really only begins after 3500-4000 rpm, it’s as rev happy as a Honda. There were three of us in the car during this test drive and my wife did not push the car terribly hard, but I could still tell the car did not feel very fast in particular from a dead start. I think the automatic underutilize the cars handling ability. If you are a driving enthusiast looking at this car you should really consider the stick.
On my first test drive I listened to the Bose stereo while the car was parked, this time I listed to it during the test drive and I was even more disappointed. Again I think the stereo sounds very good but way short of justifying the $635 premium.
Other than that, all my opinions from the first test drive remain. As far as color, before today I had black, blue, Gray as my top 3 colors in that order. After today and discussing it with my wife my color preference is now Gray, Black, silver. There is something about the metallic gray that makes the car look classy and more upscale. The blue while a beautiful color has the inverse effect. The black is great, but because it’s not metallic it looks flat.
Also as I mentioned in my first test drive, the dealer I was at was a bottom line no haggle dealer and his price was $500 below MSRP. Today 10 days later his price is $1000 below MSRP for the 4-cylinder auto and $1500 below MSRP for the 6-cylinder auto. Throw in the Graduate student $500 discount and I can get a fully loaded 6s with 5-speed manual for ~$23,500 with no haggling.
You said about 2 year old Proteges going for $13-14K in Canada. Here, I found an 01 Protege DX with 10,452 miles and automatic. MSRP was ~$15,000 for this car when new. It's for sale for $9977 now. Mazdas lose value quickly here because of all the rebates and special financing. Why pay about the same money for a used car that will get you a new car?
I think the Pro is a nice car, but they just don't hold their value. As for the 6, I don't see why its residuals will be crap as long as Mazda can sell every one they make without (substantial) rebates and incentives.
Basing the 6 on the 626's residuals is ludacris. The 626 was a rental standby, pretty much. The 6 seems to have potential. (I say "seems", because I have yet to drive one. That will change very soon though).
It's high time somebody said it. NO ONE knows what the 2003 model Mazda6 will sell for three years from now. No one.
Too many unknowns. Brand reputation by then. What GM is doing incentive wise (seriously). Used car market. World oil situation. Price of beans in a small town in Southern France. (Well, maybe!)
If you want to lease a Mazda6, or want to trade in three years, then the residuals are important. If you want to drive an interesting car, there are prices to be paid. Ask the Porsche owner. Ask the BMW owner. And early adapters incur risk. Always been that way, always will.
The only thing that makes no sense to me is why people who are so sure of Accord's superiority find it necessary to come on here and bash the 6. If they were SURE the Accord was superior, there would be no need to come on here and do that, now would there? Insecurity? Doubts? Seeking support?
In any event, this is a Mazda6 forum, not an Accord support group. As for me, as soon as Sirius is avaiable as a factory option, count me in. Unless of course the GTP comes out before then and I love it...in which case Mazda may have missed a sale due to its use of proprietary radios!
I read "Jeff's Break-in Rules" and ended up wondering who Jeff was and why he thought his rules were the best for breaking in a new engine. I was then heartened to see a response following that where the author described a more rational approach. Use the entire rev range but do so at light loads. In other words use it but don't abuse it. That is what I did with my 1988 MX-6 MT; kept changing the engine revs (shifted to different gears) and kept a very light foot on the throttle for the first 1000 miles. Turned out to be the most reliable car I ever owned; 9 years and 99K miles with NOTHING done under the hood except for the obigatory timing belt/water pump at around 80K miles. And the best part was that the whole time I owned it, I hit redline on an almost daily basis and it never burned any oil (or leaked any either!) Limiting an engine to 3500 rpm suggests it will not want to run up to redline when it has 30-40K miles on it. And that means it won't be any fun... Zoom, Zoom.....
DX's never SELL at that price!!!! it's the bottom of the line trim!!! it was probably sold at 12-13k NEW, so it only lost ~3k in 2 years, not too bad I'd say.
remember, used car price is dependent on ACTUAL sale price of the car when new, so when calculating heavily discounted cars like the Protege, you pretty much throw MSRP out of the window.
on another note, why are we talking about the darn Protege in this thread????
I'm sorry I didn't mean to imply the way you took my post. Which post was it, I have posted many the past few days?
fowler3
**1) You're judging people by appearances (and not just the appearance of their car).Do interesting people always look interesting when they drive by? No. 2) You're propagating the whole judge-people-by-their car attitude that I hate.**
Paul: Remember an ES goes for $18.000 CDN new. The DX models are cheaper than a loaded ES by a wide margin here in the USED car market - say $1000. A DX (SE in Cananda) is $16.000 new.
I really like the cargo net in my mill s, I will be turning in and hoped I could just move it to the 6. Dealer doesn't seem to know anything about accessories, at least the sales people, and they were the only one there late saturday.
The only reference the banks have to go on for the 6 residuals is the performance of the 626 and Millenia. Both of which have had SIGNIFICANT rebates and discounts available for quite some time. One can buy a new Millenia right now for 25% less than MSRP. What do you think happens to the residual?
In Europe, the Mazda6 now has the highest residual in it's class according to www.car.kak.net (by the way...how do yo make this a link?)
I'd be surprised if Mazda released the hatch and wagon in the middle of the year.
The general public is barely aware of the 6 right now - and the question I get most often is "Is that the replacement for the MX-6?"
From a Marketing perspective, IMHO releasing the hatch & wagon in June will confuse buyers. By June the ad campaign will have given the public a solid grasp that the sedan is around. Adding two more models mid-year seems like a recipe for confusion. As an example:
John Q Public asks "Is it the MX-6 or 626? Is it a hatch? Is it a wagon or is it a sedan? It's ALL of them? Sheesh. Well then, since it's new and not many hatchs/wagons have been delivered yet, I'll wait until they're out for a while so folks will deal (September's coming) and I'll choose which of the three to get then."
It doesn't make a lot of sense to release it before late Q3 or Q4. Besides, June availabilty is towards the end of peak buying season. Why intro a new model when 60-90 days later in September the '03 fire-sales start in anticipation of '04?
ruefus-your argument makes a lot of sense. A factory insider said June; he or she seemed like a person most likely to have real information. It would make sense to wait a year between the sedan and the other versions. Actually, I think they should have released all three versions together; I think the car would have made a bigger splash. I think this way the 6 is being eclipsed by the Altima and the Accord, and it'll take more time to build a reputation.
fowler--on Dec. 22, you wrote..."but most Camry owners I have seen look like their cars -- uninspired, boring, humorless. They live quiet simple lives, never venture far, and have little imagination." You were making a contrast with Mazda owners. I'm not really personally offended, I was just defending myself and giving MHO on judging people by their cars. I guess I was being too...humorless.
...although the "insider" said we should see them in June, I would presume he may have meant that production will start in June so that product will be available for September introduction. Typically auto plants will manufacture new product for a couple of months in order to create inventory for mass delivery.
As an owner of one all I can say is I sure hope so. The old 2.3 engine is a sweet one. Worst case I've had is to shift into 4th on real long hills. I hope with the boosted horsepower and Variable timing that it will be an even sweeter ride.
I've been in 626's of the same year and wonder were all the fun went.
I hope that the new 6 with a stick will be even more fun.
We can sit here all day and say what we hope and think but if you look at the 6's smaller brother the Protege you have an example of a car that is in many ways as good as or better than the competition that gets little love from the mass public.
It has been praised as one of the best buys in the small car world and yet no one cares. The same thing is going to happen to the 6. No matter how good it is, the vision of the 626 will still be in many people's mind.
Like I said before, the Toyonda juggernaut isn't concerned about the Mazda6. They don't even market cars as "sport sedans". I mean Toyota is one of the richest car builders right now, do you think they can't find the resources to build a sportsedan for the U.S. market? As long as 10-15 year old CamCords provide the dependable basic transportation for the people that depend on them, they will continue to build the strong consumer base that Mazda is trying to build and GM has lost. Hyundai is more of threat than Mazda right now.
And with 400,000 quality units being put in the market every year, they are going to be impressing entry level buyers for a long long time.
Apparently there's an in-dash MP3 CD player option, part numbers GJ6B-79-BGXF and GJ6B-79-AGXB. It's in the latest brochure.
Anyone heard estimates on when it will be available?
(As an aside, as far as the nonstop discussion about Mazda eclipsing Toyota or Honda, I have to say "who cares?" Dunno why there's such a fascination with being #1. Personally, as long as they stay in business to provide support, I'm happy. I don't really want every 6th car on the road to be identical to mine.)
James ... Dayo.... Gary..... John.... I am sooooo sorrryyyyyyy. Yousss guys must all be big spenders buying the "s"..., my comments are for the "i" buyers who need those bucks on the back-end when they trade up in 3 years.
I've owned 2 Mazda, 6 Honda and 2 Acura. Currently drive a '00 Mitsu Eclipse which is for sale. It too has terrible ReSale value. This is why I hope to bring awareness to all who are considering this fine vehicle, the "6". It has flaws which one needs to weigh out before purchase. I've asked around and found that a loaded 2002 626 would currently bring $11,000 on the auction block... That's a $20,000+ MSRP V6 vehicle with less than 10,000 miles on it! Residuals are very close to what to expect at trade-in out into the future. If you look at the AMATI Millenia or even RX-7's you''ll see Mazda's have very poor retension of value.
Those that are endowed with lots of disposable income will not be swayed. I've found that most constituents here at Edmonds are near luxury car buyers. Those with disposable income. They buy spoilers, leather, large alloys. You lucky, lucky people.
NOW as for those who are interested in the $19,050 "6i" with manual transmission and no other options, this concern that I bring I hope is valid. As a shopper of Bang-for-the-Buck enthusiast vehicles, the "6i" is the new leader of the pack! Nothing out there except the base BMW MINI is even close. Well maybe an Accord Coupe. And maybe the Mitsu Eclipse... But we digress,
Let's get back to the Best of the Best in the Bang contest. ( Say that fast 3 times...., ya laughing yet?) If you notice the "i" has low end heater controls compared to the "s". The brochure cleverly leaves these out of view. The "6i" wheel covers too. I was psyched when I first saw those new heater controls. Then what a come down to see what Mazda gave us "6i" people instead.... They look right out of the P5.
But it has dual exhausts, COOOOOL, it has steering wheel audio controls, 6 speaker stereo, it has ambient outside temperature, remote keyless entry, seat height adjustment, and 16 inch tires, and BEST of all it has a 4 year warranty. It just ROCKS the competition who can only muster PW, PS, Air, and maybe Cruise, most on 15 inch tires and a 3 year warranty.
So you see I'm a BIG fan of the "6", BUT I'm a bigger fan of being able to recoup some of the dollars paid to get into this fine ride when it comes time to buy my next vehicle. You see there's always a next vehicle.
So, for all you rich folks, go ahead buy the "6s". I want to see as many on the road as possible. Let's see in 2 years I should be able to get it for around $11,000! Ain't life beautiful! I'm not faulting the car, it's the SYSTEM! Yeah, darned ole bad dudes who are out there trying to get me....
No cars can even touch the Mazda 6 at all! The wagon and sedan look equally great, and they even drive great too! I got a test drive the other day and it could beat an Accord or Camry anyday. The wagon has some competition though. The Legacy wagon has some pretty devote owners, me being the owner of an Outback i know. the Legacy is not too shabby though but wow...if this car stays as cheap as they say it will be a winner.
ensoccer--an AWD 6 wagon is rumored to show up later (2005 model, maybe, given that the front-drive wagon will be a 2004 model).
6 sales--I don't care how well it sells compared to the Camry and Accord, but I do want the car to sell well, because 1) it will encourage carmakers to emphasize good handling over sheer utility, and 2) Mazda will be able to offer more option combos, body styles, etc if it's selling well than if it tanks.
Just from the reviews, it seems like the 6 isn't just a bigger Protege, but it's also more refined, so maybe it'll be able to make a bigger dent in the market. Or...not.
Wow...it looks like the 626 has great resale value! You can buy a brand new 2002 626 at my store for $14,970 (due to wonderful rebates on a car that is discountinued and hasn't had a face lift in 11 years). The spread between what you actually pay for it new and what you can sell it for later isn't so drastic as you imply.
It looks like your apples are mixed with your oranges. The 626 isn't anything like the 6. The 6 is not a replacement for the 626 or the Millenia. It is all new.
" Yousss guys must all be big spenders buying the "s"..., my comments are for the "i" buyers who need those bucks on the back-end when they trade up in 3 years."
Pardon me for sticking my nose in this discussion. The following is just my opinion/viewpoint so it isn't necessarily worth the price of admission...
Depreciation is a relative thing. The Honda Accord will deprecitate less than a Mazda. Fine.
A BMW will depreciate less on a percentage basis, too, than a Mazda. But the depreciation on a $35,000 car is still going to end up being a LOT of money.
Personally, I have no desire to drive a Honda Accord. It is a very nice car in almost every imaginable way but it just isn't a kick to drive it. My girlfriend has an Accord and loves it. I drive it and like it. But when I get done driving it there is no inner voice yelling at me to go buy one.
I do have a desire to buy the Mazda6. Up until driving the Mazda6 I had thought it was going to take a lot more money to get a car that had a stick, handled well and didn't ride like a roller skate.
And for the record, I've driven more expensive cars than the Mazda that didn't do it for me. This is definitely not a money thing. Its all about how well the car drives and how balanced it is on the road.
The Mazda is an absolute gem of a car if you you enjoy spirited driving and need the practicality of seating room. It has a comfort level that won't make you think twice about taking it on a long highway trip. But you also won't wince when thinking about taking it around your favorite corner, either. Mazda really did an amazing job with the car.
For that driving enjoyment I'm willing to forgo the few thousands it'll cost me in depreciation.
Comments
It's no secret that the Accord has WAY better resale than the 626 and consequently it will have a higher resale value than the 6. If you want to dis the Accord you might do better sticking to the subjective categories like it's better looking or more fun to drive cause when it comes to "cold hard facts" the Accord wins this one hands down.
As for the comments on whether 6 buyers will be interested in the stick shift, remember that some of the buyers will be current Miata or Protege owners with expanding families, looking for larger cars. (I'm looking to upgrade from a 2000 Miata due to our recent addition of a son to our family!)
What was the news on the hatch and wagon release? I missed that post and can't find it...
And the auto-dimming mirror with compass and homelink, does this simply replace the existing mirror? and how large is it with the homelink?
It appears that certain people who post here are not really interested in the 6 but want to incessantly let us know why Mazdas are 'inferior' to their beloved brands. I do not understand why people who recently chose a particular model over the 6 would continue to passionately follow a car (or its other siblings) that is not (totally) to their liking.
Thank you for your cooperation!
rodlcw:
**I did not see hooks to attach a cargo net, like I have in my 99 mill S.**
No hooks in the trunk, they must come with the cargo net when you order it. Dealer-installed.
** Also, what about mudflaps, are they of value with the sport model?**
Mud guards are not available if you buy the Sports Package. Must be the body cladding.
**And the auto-dimming mirror with compass and homelink, does this simply replace the existing mirror?**
Yes
**and how large is it with the homelink?**
Thicker, about the same width.
Skyray:
**What was the news on the hatch and wagon release? I missed that post and can't find it..**
Danto, who works at the Flat Rock assembly plant, said the hatchback should be here in June. Go back to #5226 or beyond for his posts.
About value after 4 years. If I buy a 6, it will be my last car. At my age the only residual I am worried about is the number of driving years I have left. It will be a "keeper" for sure and a big catch at that.
If residual is all you are interested in, buy an Accord. Don't let us stop you. The real question is: 4 years from now do you want to be driving a $9,000 Accord or a $7000 Mazda6, and what would you be missing during those years, if it's the former?
With all the complaints and petty dislikes I have read here about the new 6's, it amazes me how close Mazda has come to building a nearly perfect car, considering all that is GOOD in them. And those who have already made a 6 purchase say that what bothered them no longer matters. They don't even think about it.
I bought Accords for 15 years: what drove me away were bad trades, dealer ripoffs, high service costs, and decontenting.
fowler3
Auto, Sport Pack, Comf Pack, Leather, Moonroof, Side air bags & curtains....
But the other dealers were not willing to trade..& they don't want to tell me which dealers had it, they want me to order one thourgh them......I have been to 3 dealerships and only one had a 6s with sport pack, leath etc etc...Seems not many of the cars have the airbags & curtains... having been in two roll-overs, this is something I don't think I want to give up...
Any ideas?
Also, anyone have an idea of a good price?
Thanks
Body style price as tested all automatics:
1. mazda 6 26,000
2. volvo 40 28,000
3. audi A4 27,000
4. Maxima 29,000
5. Accord 25,000
interior:
Goes to mazda a lot for the buck. like front room in accord and maxima but other than that they are not a sporty.
handling
the mazda just blew them away in turns. Only thing mazda could have done better would be the turnaround distance for u-turns seemed a bit wide.
breaking.
Loved the Mazda
initial speed
love the maxima.
Passing speed:
all of them have enough.
cornering:
The mazda by a long shot.
comfort:
backseat with the mazda leather. Front seat to the Audi.
The big question is how will the reliability be? I think this car will not be compared much more to the accord,camry or maxima as they do not handle the same nor really seam in the same class. I would put the volvo, accord, camry and maxima in the family sedan class and the mazda in the sports sedan. You have to drive it to understand. I think a lot of people will not like the way it rides or handles. It is very much like a BMW or european sports car not a family sedan. All of these cars are great but my hat goes out to MAZDA for this winner. I think the biggest competition for mazda will be the new ACURA or Subaru WRX the others are more for family types who like a smother ride.
Check kbb.com. The private owner value for a good condition 1993 Accord with 140,000 miles in the 30141 area code is $4100. We sold the Accord about a year ago. It may not be "Average" but we have a reference. The same on we used at the time to price ours.
http://www.edmunds.com/used/1993/honda/accord/4drexsedan/prices.html
What happened to the horrible residual value issue? Or, do you think the residual will go from 44% to 54% in a few months?
Oh, and fowler, as a Camry owner I'm deeply insulted. Of course, I needed to buy a second car, for a short commute, quickly, and wanted a cheap used car, and hadn't paid much attention to cars, having lived car-free in New York for eight years. So no, I'll never buy another Camry knowing more about the alternatives. Still, and seriously, I disagree with your comments for two reasons. 1) You're judging people by appearances (and not just the appearance of their car). Do interesting people always look interesting when they drive by? No. 2) You're propagating the whole judge-people-by-their car attitude that I hate. That's why so many people in this country have gas-guzzling, dangerous (to car drivers) SUVs when what they really NEED is a van. But no one wants to be seen in a van, because they know other people will be judging them by what they drive.
Anyway, you can slam Camrys all you want, but unless you've met all 500-gazillion Camry owners in this country, you have no basis to judge them.
Enough ranting. Is it possible the 6 residuals will go up, because they're currently based on the 626, and 6 owners will want to keep their cars longer?
As I motioned in my first test drive, although the car is fast and has more then adequate power, it’s just not press you against your seat fast, you don’t get this powerful feel of thrust when you push the car. Also the fun really only begins after 3500-4000 rpm, it’s as rev happy as a Honda. There were three of us in the car during this test drive and my wife did not push the car terribly hard, but I could still tell the car did not feel very fast in particular from a dead start. I think the automatic underutilize the cars handling ability. If you are a driving enthusiast looking at this car you should really consider the stick.
On my first test drive I listened to the Bose stereo while the car was parked, this time I listed to it during the test drive and I was even more disappointed. Again I think the stereo sounds very good but way short of justifying the $635 premium.
Other than that, all my opinions from the first test drive remain. As far as color, before today I had black, blue, Gray as my top 3 colors in that order. After today and discussing it with my wife my color preference is now Gray, Black, silver. There is something about the metallic gray that makes the car look classy and more upscale. The blue while a beautiful color has the inverse effect. The black is great, but because it’s not metallic it looks flat.
Also as I mentioned in my first test drive, the dealer I was at was a bottom line no haggle dealer and his price was $500 below MSRP. Today 10 days later his price is $1000 below MSRP for the 4-cylinder auto and $1500 below MSRP for the 6-cylinder auto. Throw in the Graduate student $500 discount and I can get a fully loaded 6s with 5-speed manual for ~$23,500 with no haggling.
I think the Pro is a nice car, but they just don't hold their value. As for the 6, I don't see why its residuals will be crap as long as Mazda can sell every one they make without (substantial) rebates and incentives.
Basing the 6 on the 626's residuals is ludacris. The 626 was a rental standby, pretty much. The 6 seems to have potential. (I say "seems", because I have yet to drive one. That will change very soon though).
Too many unknowns. Brand reputation by then. What GM is doing incentive wise (seriously). Used car market. World oil situation. Price of beans in a small town in Southern France. (Well, maybe!)
If you want to lease a Mazda6, or want to trade in three years, then the residuals are important. If you want to drive an interesting car, there are prices to be paid. Ask the Porsche owner. Ask the BMW owner. And early adapters incur risk. Always been that way, always will.
The only thing that makes no sense to me is why people who are so sure of Accord's superiority find it necessary to come on here and bash the 6. If they were SURE the Accord was superior, there would be no need to come on here and do that, now would there? Insecurity? Doubts? Seeking support?
In any event, this is a Mazda6 forum, not an Accord support group. As for me, as soon as Sirius is avaiable as a factory option, count me in. Unless of course the GTP comes out before then and I love it...in which case Mazda may have missed a sale due to its use of proprietary radios!
That is what I did with my 1988 MX-6 MT; kept changing the engine revs (shifted to different gears) and kept a very light foot on the throttle for the first 1000 miles. Turned out to be the most reliable car I ever owned; 9 years and 99K miles with NOTHING done under the hood except for the obigatory timing belt/water pump at around 80K miles. And the best part was that the whole time I owned it, I hit redline on an almost daily basis and it never burned any oil (or leaked any either!)
Limiting an engine to 3500 rpm suggests it will not want to run up to redline when it has 30-40K miles on it. And that means it won't be any fun...
Zoom, Zoom.....
DX's never SELL at that price!!!! it's the bottom of the line trim!!! it was probably sold at 12-13k NEW, so it only lost ~3k in 2 years, not too bad I'd say.
remember, used car price is dependent on ACTUAL sale price of the car when new, so when calculating heavily discounted cars like the Protege, you pretty much throw MSRP out of the window.
on another note, why are we talking about the darn Protege in this thread????
fowler3
**1) You're judging people by appearances (and not just the appearance of their car).Do interesting people always look interesting when they drive by? No. 2) You're propagating the whole judge-people-by-their car attitude that I hate.**
Paul: Remember an ES goes for $18.000 CDN new.
The DX models are cheaper than a loaded ES by a wide margin here in the USED car market - say $1000. A DX (SE in Cananda) is $16.000 new.
Dinu
In Europe, the Mazda6 now has the highest residual in it's class according to www.car.kak.net
(by the way...how do yo make this a link?)
The general public is barely aware of the 6 right now - and the question I get most often is "Is that the replacement for the MX-6?"
From a Marketing perspective, IMHO releasing the hatch & wagon in June will confuse buyers. By June the ad campaign will have given the public a solid grasp that the sedan is around. Adding two more models mid-year seems like a recipe for confusion. As an example:
John Q Public asks "Is it the MX-6 or 626? Is it a hatch? Is it a wagon or is it a sedan? It's ALL of them? Sheesh. Well then, since it's new and not many hatchs/wagons have been delivered yet, I'll wait until they're out for a while so folks will deal (September's coming) and I'll choose which of the three to get then."
It doesn't make a lot of sense to release it before late Q3 or Q4. Besides, June availabilty is towards the end of peak buying season. Why intro a new model when 60-90 days later in September the '03 fire-sales start in anticipation of '04?
fowler--on Dec. 22, you wrote..."but most Camry owners I have seen look like their cars -- uninspired, boring, humorless. They live quiet simple lives, never venture far, and have little imagination." You were making a contrast with Mazda owners. I'm not really personally offended, I was just defending myself and giving MHO on judging people by their cars. I guess I was being too...humorless.
http://car.kak.net
(are you picking up on my sarcasm?)
I've been in 626's of the same year and wonder were all the fun went.
I hope that the new 6 with a stick will be even more fun.
"You should be able to see the hatch and wagon in the show rooms by June." (#5243 of 5399 hatch and wagon by danto Dec 24, 2002 (11:29 pm) )
That would imply they're starting production in the next few months. Maybe Danto will comment.
It has been praised as one of the best buys in the small car world and yet no one cares. The same thing is going to happen to the 6. No matter how good it is, the vision of the 626 will still be in many people's mind.
Like I said before, the Toyonda juggernaut isn't concerned about the Mazda6. They don't even market cars as "sport sedans". I mean Toyota is one of the richest car builders right now, do you think they can't find the resources to build a sportsedan for the U.S. market? As long as 10-15 year old CamCords provide the dependable basic transportation for the people that depend on them, they will continue to build the strong consumer base that Mazda is trying to build and GM has lost. Hyundai is more of threat than Mazda right now.
And with 400,000 quality units being put in the market every year, they are going to be impressing entry level buyers for a long long time.
Anyone heard estimates on when it will be available?
(As an aside, as far as the nonstop discussion about Mazda eclipsing Toyota or Honda, I have to say "who cares?" Dunno why there's such a fascination with being #1. Personally, as long as they stay in business to provide support, I'm happy. I don't really want every 6th car on the road to be identical to mine.)
James ... Dayo.... Gary..... John....
I am sooooo sorrryyyyyyy.
Yousss guys must all be big spenders buying the "s"..., my comments are for the "i" buyers who need those bucks on the back-end when they trade up in 3 years.
I've owned 2 Mazda, 6 Honda and 2 Acura. Currently drive a '00 Mitsu Eclipse which is for sale. It too has terrible ReSale value. This is why I hope to bring awareness to all who are considering this fine vehicle, the "6". It has flaws which one needs to weigh out before purchase. I've asked around and found that a loaded 2002 626 would currently bring $11,000 on the auction block... That's a $20,000+ MSRP V6 vehicle with less than 10,000 miles on it! Residuals are very close to what to expect at trade-in out into the future. If you look at the AMATI Millenia or even RX-7's you''ll see Mazda's have very poor retension of value.
Those that are endowed with lots of disposable income will not be swayed. I've found that most constituents here at Edmonds are near luxury car buyers. Those with disposable income. They buy spoilers, leather, large alloys.
You lucky, lucky people.
NOW as for those who are interested in the $19,050 "6i" with manual transmission and no other options, this concern that I bring I hope is valid. As a shopper of Bang-for-the-Buck enthusiast vehicles, the "6i" is the new leader of the pack! Nothing out there except the base BMW MINI is even close. Well maybe an Accord Coupe. And maybe the Mitsu Eclipse... But we digress,
Let's get back to the Best of the Best in the Bang contest. ( Say that fast 3 times...., ya laughing yet?)
If you notice the "i" has low end heater controls compared to the "s". The brochure cleverly leaves these out of view. The "6i" wheel covers too. I was psyched when I first saw those new heater controls. Then what a come down to see what Mazda gave us "6i" people instead.... They look right out of the P5.
But it has dual exhausts, COOOOOL, it has steering wheel audio controls, 6 speaker stereo, it has ambient outside temperature, remote keyless entry, seat height adjustment, and 16 inch tires, and BEST of all it has a 4 year warranty. It just ROCKS the competition who can only muster PW, PS, Air, and maybe Cruise, most on 15 inch tires and a 3 year warranty.
So you see I'm a BIG fan of the "6", BUT I'm a bigger fan of being able to recoup some of the dollars paid to get into this fine ride when it comes time to buy my next vehicle. You see there's always a next vehicle.
So, for all you rich folks, go ahead buy the "6s". I want to see as many on the road as possible. Let's see in 2 years I should be able to get it for around $11,000! Ain't life beautiful! I'm not faulting the car, it's the SYSTEM! Yeah, darned ole bad dudes who are out there trying to get me....
Was this good for you too?
1 question: Does the wagon have an AWD option?
6 sales--I don't care how well it sells compared to the Camry and Accord, but I do want the car to sell well, because 1) it will encourage carmakers to emphasize good handling over sheer utility, and 2) Mazda will be able to offer more option combos, body styles, etc if it's selling well than if it tanks.
Just from the reviews, it seems like the 6 isn't just a bigger Protege, but it's also more refined, so maybe it'll be able to make a bigger dent in the market. Or...not.
It looks like your apples are mixed with your oranges. The 626 isn't anything like the 6. The 6 is not a replacement for the 626 or the Millenia. It is all new.
Pardon me for sticking my nose in this discussion. The following is just my opinion/viewpoint so it isn't necessarily worth the price of admission...
Depreciation is a relative thing. The Honda Accord will deprecitate less than a Mazda. Fine.
A BMW will depreciate less on a percentage basis, too, than a Mazda. But the depreciation on a $35,000 car is still going to end up being a LOT of money.
Personally, I have no desire to drive a Honda Accord. It is a very nice car in almost every imaginable way but it just isn't a kick to drive it. My girlfriend has an Accord and loves it. I drive it and like it. But when I get done driving it there is no inner voice yelling at me to go buy one.
I do have a desire to buy the Mazda6. Up until driving the Mazda6 I had thought it was going to take a lot more money to get a car that had a stick, handled well and didn't ride like a roller skate.
And for the record, I've driven more expensive cars than the Mazda that didn't do it for me. This is definitely not a money thing. Its all about how well the car drives and how balanced it is on the road.
The Mazda is an absolute gem of a car if you you enjoy spirited driving and need the practicality of seating room. It has a comfort level that won't make you think twice about taking it on a long highway trip. But you also won't wince when thinking about taking it around your favorite corner, either. Mazda really did an amazing job with the car.
For that driving enjoyment I'm willing to forgo the few thousands it'll cost me in depreciation.