Mazda6 Sedan

maltb

don't know what the significance of it is if all 6s's have V-6

Because the exterior of the 6s and 6i are indistinguishable otherwise.

newcar31

"For those who refuse to drive automatic the articles will not make a difference."

Let me add that for those that find the Accord's styling un-appealing, the articles will not make a difference.

newcar31

"you don't want aerodynamic lift at the front or rear of any car."

Of course you don't. You may want downforce though, which spoilers can provide.

"All of the Speed World Challenge touring cars on the Speed channel have wings (and they don't use them to look cool)."

They also have front spoilers to offset the effect of the rear spoiler. I still stand by what I said: You don't want more downforce on the back of a FWD car than what you have on the front.

ickes_mobile

C&D (I think) did a test of various cars with and without their factory installed spoilers. One of the cars was a Mustang Cobra or GT. As I recall, their findings were that such spoilers provide little effect to a car's handling and performance. There are of course some exceptions, such as the small wing fixed to second year and after Audi TTs to address rear end lift encountered at Autobahn speeds.

My own opinion is if you like the way it looks, go for it. Its almost the same debate as whether one car is better looking than another. Personal preferences rule.

vocus

They aren't really going to affect anything about the car at legal speeds in the US (55-75mph). I had a 99 Protege without a wing and an 01 with a wing, and could swear the 01 felt more "planted" at high speeds (85-95mph). But the 01 also had bigger, wider tires too, so I am sure that's what it was.

vocus

This time, I got this huge, vividly colored envelope (in my name) including a gift for test driving a 6, a CD-ROM, and an invitation to this test driving party or something like that on the weekend of January 17-19. I might have to go and check this out. Will run the CD-ROM when I get home.

This is alot more extravagent than the flyer-type thing that came in the mail last Saturday in my mother's name. Maybe I can get away with going to 2 different dealers or taking a friend with me. We shall see.

gee35coupe

But the envelope was eye catching. I'm driving the 6 again this weekend for my $35.

ambull

Newcar31 says "You don't want more downforce on the back of a FWD car than what you have on the front."
I agree, but what you originally asked was "Why do you want downforce on the back of a FWD car?"

Anyway, forget it.. we're both essentially saying the same thing.

newcar31

Basically what I'm saying is that most spoilers on FWD production cars are pure form and no function.

ickes_mobile

I lost mine. Bummer. Would have used it to buy a scale S2000 or Boxster model from the Sharper Image...

robr2

...was I the only one that was visiting mazda6insider.com every week in November and December?

I received 3 envelopes in a either vivid yellow, blue, and red envelopes just about every other week reminding me to visit. I then was e-mailed to expect the certificate by Mazda and then was e-mailed by local dealer's internet rep to come in the above listed weekend for the festivities and a test drive. Late last week a vivid silver envelope arrived with the CD and invite.

Looks like someone at Mazda got some fancy new CRM/Campaign Management software!!

ickes_mobile

sparky52t

While driving to work on another slick, snowy central PA morning this morning I watched while my '91 626 struggled to keep the windows from fogging up.

As a possible 6 owner in 5 months or so I'm wondering about you new 6 owners in the snowy northeast part of the country. How's the defrostin' goin'?

And regarding ambull and newcar31's comments about spoilers on fwd cars -- I've always thought that too -- sorta silly.

gee35coupe

I wonder who won the free Mazda 6? They should be lifetime members of the community here.

seaf

I remember reading in one of the car magazine's "tech forum" where a reader asked if street car spoilers do anything, the reply was that the lip spoilers (not the high wings) can manage the turbulence in the back of the car better, thus allowing a car to slip through the air with less resistance. This seems to make sense since I also remember reading some literature of a car that does not have spoilers has a certain cd (coefficient of drag) and with spoilers, it had 0.01 lower cd.

So maybe the spoilers on average street cars are not there for downforce like in race cars, but more for looks mainly and some slight aerodynamic advantage.

rworrell

I actually asked my dealer to look into this for me--I'd buy a 6s with the Sport package, but swap trunk lids with a non-Sport in the same color.

Can't do it! (before anyone else tries this tack).

On non-Sport cars, the Center High Mounted Stop Light (CHMSL--the goofy brake light on your rear deck) is mounted on the rear deck inside the rear window (backlight). On Sport cars, the CHMSL is integrated into the spoiler. So, if you want the Sport package, you legally have to take the spoiler as long as Mazda is packaging things this way.

Oh, well, it worked for a friend of mine on an Alero...

ickes_mobile

on the Alero, the car has the inside mounted light and the spoiler mounted light. Looks pretty dumb if you actually want the spoiler. Several other makers do this too.

markjenn

I haven't seen any articles about car spoilers lately, but I doubt any spoiler lessens drag or improves a vehicles drag coefficient.

The whole idea of a spoiler is to "spoil" the smooth airflow over the car. You want to do this so the car shape doesn't act like a wing resulting in lift. To spoil the lift, you pay a price in increased drag due to greater turbulence. Certainly the big panels that pop out airplane wings on descent and touchdown are designed to kill lift and ADD drag, not reduce drag. Certainly in race cars, the tuners are constantly adjusting the rear wings to get the best tradeoff since increasing the downforce causes greater drag.

So I would expect virtually any spoiler to slow a car down, albeit probably a insignificant amount given the small size of spoilers on cars like the Mazda.

- Mark

blueguydotcom

I haven't seen any articles about car spoilers lately, but I doubt any spoiler lessens drag or improves a vehicles drag coefficient.

The Infiniti G35 sedan and coupe both end up with lower Cd with the spoiler/aero package.

From an Edmunds review ( http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/49761/article.html ):

"The Aerodynamic package adds a rear spoiler and underbody panels to an already slippery shape. Infiniti spent a great deal of time in a wind tunnel with the G35. By using diffusers, deflectors and carefully positioning underbody components (such as the muffler and fuel tank), the G35 directs underbody air movement rather than obstructing it. This helps the G35 achieve 0 degrees of front lift, thereby improving vehicle stability at high speeds as well as reducing drag and wind noise. With the optional rear spoiler, 0 degrees of rear lift is also achieved. The G35 has a coefficient of drag measurement of just 0.27 (0.26 with the aero package)."

And regarding the G35 coupe ( http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/firstdrive/76084/article.html ):

"Cars equipped with the 18s are eligible for the Aero package ($550), which adds a rear spoiler and underside air diffusers to eliminate rear lift entirely (zero front lift is a given) and lower the coefficient of drag from 0.29 to 0.28."

zaimon

I would imagine that the 60/40 (F/R) weight distribution of the 6 would cause a significant amount of rear lift. Question is, does the rear spoiler reduce this effect on the car? If so, to what extent?

Moving on, does anyone know any release plans about the MPS version of the 6? 280+ horses out of the turbocharged 2.3 sounds sinful, especially with the AWD!

ameen6

This month Motor Trend, Car&Driver, and Road&Track all had Mid size sedan comparisons.

CAR&DRIVER
1: Honda Accord EX-L Manual Trans
2: Mazda 6i Manual Trans with sport package
3: Volkswagen Passat GL 1.8T Automatic Trans
4: Toyota Camry SE Manual Trans
5 tie: Nissan Altima 3.5SE Manual Trans
5 tie: Subaru Legacy L Manual Trans
Who cars about the rest...

ROAD&TRACK
1: Honda Accord EX Auto
2: Mazda 6s Auto no sport package
3(tie): Nissan 3.5SE
4(tie): Camry XLE
5: VW Passat GLX

Motor Trend
1: Mazda 6s Manual with sport package
2: VW Jetta 6 cylinder manual
3: Nissan Altima 6 cylinder manual

Interesting things to note:

car&driver has now tested a fully loaded 6i with 5spd MT and a fully loaded 6s with 5spd MT. Here are the numbers.

300ft skidpad (6i\6s): .86g .84g
Breaking 70-0 mph (6i\6s): 169 feet 183 feet
Acceleration 0-60 mph (6i\6s): 7.9 sec 6.8 sec

In the Road&Track comparison the margin of victory for the Accord was .6pts over the Mazda6 out of a possible 600pts. As other reviews have indicated the 5 spd Auto of the Mazda6 is sluggish and really hurts it's overall performance. Road&Track explicitly said that the Mazda6 begs to be configured with a manual transmission. From my test drive experience (auto & manual), I agree.

In all three comparison articles the writers mention to one extent or another that they are pleasantly surprised that considering how taut
and awesome the Mazda6's handling is, it does not suffer in ride quality, and that ride quality is on par with the less sporty competitors. That's great engineering if you ask me.

choe13

My family friend from md just bought the m6 couple months ago(5mt, sports package, black, clear rear lenses)and came to visit. He let me give it a test drive, and here are my assesments. The interior is real nice, everything looks buttoned down, as well driving visibility is amazing(can't see front hood, only ground ahead). When i started up the car, there were hardly any vibrations of interior pieces and provided a beautiful exhaust note. At lower rpms it had a real nice pull especailly since it only has 150 horse and 160 torque(i applaud the engineering) and the shifters where short, crisp making that pull even better. While forced to make a sudden lane change, the steering felt so precise and before i knew exactly where i wanted to end up, it seems like the car telepathically already knew, while still able to maintain its composure(feels like this car would absolutely rock a pilon test).

After doing this, and the music sounding real good too, i took it to the highway to test it at higher rpm, and it blasted through the merge with supreme ease. It stayed on par or even a tad below the 3rpm level at 130 providing a soothing highway driving experience. While on the highway also, it was impressive to notice almost nil exterior noise level into the cabin(beautiful job benchmarking A4). Got off the highway, unfortunately faced alot of lights on the way back, but that helped me test out the brakes. And it worked the same way the sudden lane change incident did, co operative,intuative and fade resistant of course(great pedal feel). And before you knew it my test was done. =( felt pretty sad he left, and sad my family friend left too i guess. j/k =]

Some post remarks. This car feels like a million bucks. But only worth 23-25k. It seems like it has benchmarked the a4 in terms of materials being buttoned, as well as the almost nil noise level into the cabin on the money. And benchmarked the bmw 3 series, in terms of steering feel, handling, braking on the money as well. While also retaining its uniqueness in terms of design, and price.

This is a seriously nice car, and i'm just 24, but i felt like a ceo driving the mazda 6.

markjenn

I agree that an "aero package" can reduce drag, by not allowing air to get under the car. But I doubt the spoiler part of the package reduces drag.

Having said this, I honestly don't have any hard info, just relating that, in general, spoilers are drag increasers, not drag reducers. My only intent is to dissuade people from buying a separate spoiler with the idea that maybe it increases gas mileage.

- Mark

mazdamarla

I go to an import-only mechanic shop - they ONLY work on Mazda, Honda, Acura, VW and Audi vehicles. 5 makes. They know them inside and out, AND their prices are extremely fair and they explain EVERYTHING to both me and my husband. (which is another reason I'd get a Mazda over a Nissan or Toyota or Subaru - I can keep my great mechanic!!!) Anyway, I called to get any opinions from them, even tho the 6 is a brand new model.

Since there's not any history yet since it's so new, he could only tell me his thoughts on Mazda in general. Said it's a great make (which I know, as I have a MX-6 for 10 years now) and one of the best cars for their value. He said a lot of his customers never thought of getting Mazdas before, after all, how often did you really see any advertising, etc. for them, compared to Honda and Toyota, etc.? But they've encouraged a lot of their customers to get Mazdas and they have and like them. For the most part, he said the 626 (what this replaced, basically) was a good car, and that Mazda has not really had many chronic repair issues, etc. And that Mazda is really really trying to get more exposure and get their name out there with this new 6 car, and because of that they're probably being VERY VERY careful with this car so it makes a good impression. Of course, there are no guarantees, but he encouraged me to get the new Mazda without any qualms or fears, just based on the make's past history from their viewpoint as mechanics.

I am still going to try to curb my temptations and wait to get another $5,000 or so in my bank account so I have more of a cushion when I do buy. Hopefully in the next year or so. But - who knows, maybe I'll cave before that.

The more I think about it, the more I'm thinking Steel Gray, 6i 4AT, Sport Package (I LIKE the spoiler look), NO leather. Don't want to risk ruining the leather from my dog's claws. Probably get the side air bag option too for that extra safety measure.

Not looking forward to the insurance, though. Called State Farm the other day to see what it'd be - $429 every six months, which is $200 over what I pay now on my MX-6. :P Ugh. Oh well. That would go down as the car gets older.

boxfan

mazdamarla--Consumer Reports' reliability rating on the 626 is pretty good, and the 6 is built at the same plant. The car had been on sale in Europe and Japan for months before it was introduced here, so it's not as new as a new North America-only model would be just after it went on sale here. Mazda also took a long time developing the car, so they've probably been careful with it. Also, Danto, who is a team leader at the plant where they're making the 6, had some very positive comments earlier in this forum about how well the car is being made. My impression is that the 6 is unlikely to have major first year issues. So I say go for it! Of course, I'm waiting for the hatchback to come out, so I don't have to decide whether to buy the car in the first year.

Regarding spoilers--the Honda Civic Hybrid has a tiny little lip spoiler that's not on other Civics. I'm pretty sure it's to reduce drag, and not to keep the rear of the car planted above 100 mph. I agree that bigger spoilers probably don't reduce drag.

ambull

ameen6: Thanks. That's the kind of info I was looking for.. the 6i performs better then 6s in every way but acceleration; great news! Car & Drivers 6i and 6s both had Sport pkg, right?

markjenn: I agree with you spoiler assessment.

choe13: That's the most glowing review I've heard yet. Anything you didn't like? Sure you're not a Mazda salesman? If not, you should be.

ruski

spoilers and wings are different things. Spoilers reduce drag. Wings apply downforce.

seaf

To be more specific, the tech forum article I read mentioned that it was a slight lip spoiler in the rear that curves slightly up (think of it as the opposite as the back of a VW Beetle, but very slight) to reduce drag. This jives with the post about the civic hybrid's lip spoiler and the Infiniti G35's spoiler package.

I'm no aerospace engineer, but I believe turbulence from behind a car can pull to slow a car down, and the front also needs to "cut through" the air, so it's beneficial to have a sleek front, but also manage the rear well. So minimizing the vacuum that is created behind a car can improve it's aerodynamics in general.

The question is whether the Mazda6's spoiler are designed to provide a function or just for looks. I think the smaller lip spoiler is better for decreasing drag and the larger one for creating downforce (if any at all). But the smaller one is hardly noticeable, and don't make a statement like the larger spoiler, which is probably what most buyers of spoilers want, that sporty image.

Did some additional research, and this website explains what wings and spoilers do very well:

http://autozine.kyul.net/technical_school/aero/tech_aero.htm

riopelle

I second golfster's post (5771) - everyone should email mazda, maybe for the hatchback's release they will eliminate the wing spoiler, or at least replace it with the lip spoiler, for the sports package. It worked for the ABS stand-alone option, so it's worth a shot.

I personally like the GFX parts, and the red sport gauges are sharp. At least the wing won't be on the wagon.

Can anyone verify the length of the wagon? I'm curious if it will be a bit shorter than the sedan, ala the P5.

mazdamarla

Well, that stinks (re Option Packages). Just went in to "build my own" on the website and realized you can't get the Power Moonroof unless you also get the comfort/leather packages. Don't WANT leather with a dog that has claws!

Revised my customized to include the following:
6i 4AT
Premium Package
Sport Package
Side Air Bags/Curtains
ALB/Traction Control

MSRP $22,410.

We'll see what price my Supplier Discount would get me for that version. Wouldn't mind having the moonroof, but not with the leather mandatory. Oh well.

robr2

with major presumptions here:

The UK wagon is 20mm (appx .75") longer and 46mm (appx 1.8") taller than the sedan/hatch.

The US sedan is 186.8". UK sedan is 184.3".

Presuming that the wagon maintains the same proportions with the addition of NA bumpers, then I would guess that the US wagon will be a smidge larger - less than 1".

ameen6

"ameen6: Thanks. That's the kind of info I was looking for.. the 6i performs better then 6s in every way but acceleration; great news! Car & Drivers 6i and 6s both had Sport pkg, right?"

Yes, both with sport pkg.

marchhare

I'm in Nashville, so no huge snow or ice going on here yet (although next week looks kinda chilly). There is frost on the windows in the morning and my 6 has no problems clearing that away fairly quickly. Then it keeps the fog out rather easily, but that could be other factors, too.

It seems that it should be fine for defogging, though.

marchhare

By the way, I went on a trip over the holidays to visit some friends. While showing off my new car to all of them, we were driving on streets I was unfamiliar with. So, there was a lot of "Turn right here!" a few feet from the corner.

In a couple of instances, this was on the highway and lanes were merging before I knew it. One time in particular I had to speed up to catch a gap and then almost immediately brake to keep from hitting the front guy in the space. Even in the automatic, I threw it into the manual mode, dropped a gear, and hit the spot then braked (even sans ABS) to fit in nicely. Kinda scary to do it, but exhilerating to have made it out alive.

So, I now have even more confidence in my 6i's ability to do what it needs to even without many of the other options.

doodle4

sparky52T: i own a 6s and live in long island ny so the weather is the same. the defrosters work quickly and efficiently. back window clears off without any scraping needed. same with front windshield. fogging is not a problem because the 6 has an added feature with the heating system that allows you to hit a front defroster button that is designed to handle the fogging we go through here in the northeast. it works beautifully. these are the little things that make this car such a joy.

fowler3

**Certainly the big panels that pop out airplane wings on descent and touchdown are designed to kill lift and ADD drag, not reduce drag.**

Incorrect: The big panels (flaps) on airplanes are designed to INCREASE lift during decent and at slower approach speeds. The extended panel inceases the wing's cord, the distance from front edge to trailing edge, thereby making the wing larger temporarily. It is not an air brake as some assume. It also allows steep decents without increasing speed, as in a dive without the flap extended.

Mazdamarla: You have another decision to make. The Premium Package includes 16"-alloys, the Sport Package includes 17"-alloys, you can't have both.

fowler3

gee35coupe

did NOT have the sport package. It had no rear wing and had 16" tires.

choe13

no not a salesman, just my truth thats all. Couple of things that can improved are seat cushioning, bigger displays(though the harmonious glow of the radio, speed display i like), other than these two things, nothing else bothered me. I'm dying to purchase one for myself, but also like the hatchback more(has that is 300, audi a4 appeal) which gives it a high class look.

give a test drive, tell me what you think

mazdamarla

Yeah, the Sport package upgrades the 16" to the 17" wheels. In order to get the Sport package, the Premium Package (which also includes the Perimeter Alarm and Power Driver Seat) also has to be checked. You can't check the Sport Package option without also checking the Premium Package.

My Supplier Discount price on that car would be $20,400. (MSRP of $22,410). Invoice price according to kbb.com is $20,362. So I'd be paying $38 over Invoice.

Plus 6% tax plus title plus plate transfer. About $21,700 total, out-the-door.

kenoka

I too have a dog, and my solution is to wait for the hatchback. Then the dog can ride on TOP of the rear seats, which I will pop down with the handy karakuri lever in the cargo area. Then he can lay down on his nice blanky and not mess up my upholstery. I seem to remember you needing an excuse to wait - so here it is. Plus the hatch is better looking IMHO, not to mention having better overall utility.

maltb

I think you guys are arguing semantics. He used the word flaps for something that is not the flaps, in the traditional sense. I think he was speaking of those tabs that pop UP from the wing once the plane is on the ground.

Tabs or Flaps on a Mazda6?

riopelle

Thanks for finding that. I was hoping the wagon would be shorter ala my P5. Oh well.

1wiseguy

I have leather seats in my current vehicle and no problem with the dog (a 70 lb hound dog). Why? I don't let him in my car. He rides around in my wife's Civic. (and I bet you all wondered why I call myself "wiseguy")

Seriously, the previous owner of my vehicle had two dogs and they used to ride with him on the leather seats. No problem.

markjenn

Sorry for the continued tangential spoiler discussion...

I wasn't talking about the flaps, I was talking about the spoilers. (Most modern airliners have both.) Flaps at the trailing edge of the wings (and leading edge slats) increase wing area, add drag, decrease stalling speed, and add lift. Spoilers are the big flat panels that come out of the tops of the wings and they decrease lift and add drag. They are used to descend more quickly from high altitude and for killing lift right after touchdown for shorter landing rollouts.

- Mark

capitano

either that or this is a Monty Python show.

meinrad

I keep thinking the end will be different!

ambull

One solution would be to regularly trim and file the dog's nails and maybe have a blanket to put down for 'em. We haven't had much problem with that, although mine is a small dog who walks daily on concrete, which wears down her nails. And she doesn't go in a car much.

mazdamarla

I did NOT post my message that many times. Hope I cleaned it up - I tried to delete the dupes. Hope THIS one doesn't duplicate itself now, too.
????????

capitano

hosts said you can get dupes when you refresh the page to which you just posted.

Even though the text fields are empty, the data gets resent with refresh.

I always click on the message center button and then come back to the threads with new posts.

adamporter

Well I mentioned before my mind was made up... I would definitely like to buy the 6s. But alas, I thought my option preferences were fairly standard but they are not as far as Mazda is concerned.

I'm looking for 6s, 5spd, moonroof, sport package, and Bose Audio in Metallic Gray (the only color I can stand.. Wish there was maroon, navy, or hunter green!). Apparently we can't get the moonroof without leather, at least not yet. (Spoke to a friendly Mazda rep in CA, she said maybe March.) If it takes much longer, I may need to consider Subaru or Volkswagen.

I'm in Somerset County, NJ. The salespeople around here seem really rude. Seems they can't answer the question "How much?", they just ask how much you want to pay, explain that the car's new and they can't, try again (repeat, repeat.) I may just go with carsdirect or some such. By the way... Anyone know any info on the type & volume of data Edmunds uses to compute their TMV? These dealers seem to know about it & scoff at it.

Really looking forward to my car though! My little '93 MX-3 GS is running great (though not too good in snow) with 135K miles, but 10 years later I find myself with a wife and 2 kids. :-) (Our other car is a 2000 Jetta GLS by the way.)

-Adam