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Comments
NOW can we get back to the Mazda6 discussion?
That's not just my inexeperienced, biased opinion either. The Accord has been rated higher by two different publications with the biggest criticism being the rear end styling. If the biggest fault that can be found by people in here or by the pros in the magazines is the styling, then the Accord is a raging success. The 6 is a new formula and so far it has done well in the comparison tests but it has yet to be seen how it will fare with the US market. However the Accord is a tried and true formula with credentials that span CR, Road & Track, Car & Driver, and most importantly with the American public.
As for the Camry being the top-selling car, if you take away fleet sales the Accord has been the best selling car for 9 of the last 10 years. The Camry beat the Accord by 30,000 units with more fleet sales and pitting a brand new model up against an Accord that was 5 years old. When was the last time Mazda had a sales success?
Haven't you seen Accords in rental fleets? I have.
Basically, I loved the way the car handles. It feels a lot more nimble than the 6s-AT and 6i-At I drove. I kept doing turns in first gear under heavy throttle and couldn't believe how much this car does NOT feel like a FWD car. And this was on a base model without the 17 inch wheels. It's hard to explain, but this car just feels right.
What's the problem? I guess if you're not wetting yourself over what a great sports sedan the 6 is, you're not welcome here.
Most of our bickering belongs on the Accord vs 6 forum.
I saw my first last night and another today, black one with sports package and a silver one.
Pure speculation on your part. I know a person with a manumatic G35 who uses the manual portion more than the auto one. Regardless, you may dismiss it all you like but it does offer drivers more control of the engine than a straight auto.
I doubt anyone that has it uses it on a regular basis (just a guess because if they did, why would they not get a manual? just doesn't make sense).
I'll give you two reasons i know of that people buyu Porsches and other German cars with tiptronic/steptronic:
1. they drive in traffic often but still want the engine control for the moments they get to cut loose
2. the secondary driver of the car cannot pilot a manual so the manumatic is a tradeoff, allowing the uncoordinated spouse to drive the car when the need arises.
If there was an automatic switch on my manual transmission, I would consider it a novelty item as well because it would be something I would rarely ever use and would just look neato as a button or whatever.
Well, I've only driven manuals for the past 18 years and I've reached the point where I detest my drive home in bumper-to-bumper traffic because I'm just plain sick and tired of pumping that clutch with me left leg.
The compass on my rearview mirror is a novelty item. I rarely use it. Although the manumatic may be a bit more functional.
Wow, I'd love a compass on my car that's built in. Most everyone I know gives directions based on N-S-E-W. We've got the ocean as a Western reference point but when one is 15 miles inland the ocean sorta disappears. I guess it all comes down to personal use...for me cupholders are a useless item as no liquids are ever allowed in any of my cars. Cupholders just sit in my cars, totally ignored. By your logic because I don't personally use cupholders I should call them novelty items.
Its just as much a novelty item on a Porsche or what have you than a M6
Bull...a majority of 911s sold today are equipped with Tiptronic. Even half of the turbos sold in 2002 were supposed to come with a Tiptronic.
Why would anyone get a automatic SPORTS CAR anyway? Gag.
I'd say a 2002 Porsche Turbo with Tiptronic would offer me better performance than any manual equipped sub-50k car. Same goes for the BMW M3 with SMG - gasp, another not quite real manual or automatic as it's got a "novelty" automatic mode for around town driving but still offers true manual bits and pieces for performance driving.
Regardless, I'm just happy the Mazda6 offers a manumatic mode as I've reached the point where I'm sick of manual in bumper-to-bumper and I'm really tired of only one in 5 of my female friends being able to even drive my car. It gets real old on road trips when you hear...lets take my Camry or you have to drive whole way with your car. Gee, nice option.
I remember when i first asked my wife about getting a car with a stick (when I was shopping for my first SHO)...she's like, "doesn't everyone know how to drive a stick, its not that tough"? Now that's my kind of chick.
It'd be bad news if it were one of the large or bargain-basement type rental fleets (Hertz, Budget, National, Enterprise, Dollar etc), as these are where excess inventory is dumped.
It's good news when it's one of the smaller but quality-oriented companies. It's hard to find these when I'm going to someplace unfamiliar, but when I'm renting from an area that I visit a lot, I rent from one of the local firms that carries Toyotas, Hondas, Mazdas, Nissans (and so on...and dont' read anything into the order I mentioned them) instead of the GMs, Fords, Chryslers or Kias. They buy these for their fleets because it differentiates them from their competitors. They tend to keep them longer also (probably to offset the higher purchase price), but it's their business model, and it seems to work for them (they get my business, anyway). They also seem to take better care of them. And no, they usually don't cost more to rent. They just don't have the "brand image" the larger players have, so they rent mostly to locals or repeat visitors.
Anyway, I know these mfrs don't like to sell to rental fleets because of the "cheap" image, but they can't stop rental agencies from making deals with local dealerships.
FYI... they have products for that sort of problem.
BTW I saw my second 6. One of the blue ones east of Harrisburg, Pa. Almost had an accident pointing it out to my family.
And no. There was no need clean the car seat after the experience.
(Go Eagles!)
and thank you myphantom6 in post #6081 i feel the same way.
Come on folks! If you were a manufacturer, Mazda, Honda, or PeekAboo, and you were trying to get rid of ALL these cars you produced this year, would YOU be discriminate about who was buying your cars? Or what the general public will think about your making maybe hundreds of thousand, or even millions of dollars, with the "QUESTIONABLE" decision?
I can only speak for myself, but I ALWAYS buy my vehicles because I just happen to like this or that style at this particular moment. Sure, I hope that what I choose won't cause me headaches in the future, but my decision is strictly emotional (again, because I like it, and I WANT it, NOW!).
I don't care, and I think MOST people don't care, if a rental car company has it's product in it's fleet. And it definitely wouldn't have been a factor for me to not buy my 6 if I had seen it at say, Hertz, Alamo, or even Enterprise (and please don't try to read anything in the companies I just chose, they were the first 3 that came to mind). In fact, I don't think I would be too far off base, if I said some people may even go out and rent a specific model for a few days just to see if they'd want to purchase it. I would!
I really enjoy this forum when I'm reading about all the different technical information about things I didn't know (and trust me, I don't know much about any of this stuff) like, where the engine was made (is that good or bad), or how this or that transmission had so many problems in the past (do we have a better one now), and even what kind of sound system brings out the "base or tweeter" from the rear of your car. In other words, I enjoy reading your opinions of what will make your car ride better, look better, and I also like to read about what we can do to avoid any mechanical problems now, or in the future.
If this conversation keeps heading in the direction it's going, then pretty soon I guess I'm going to start hearing some people talk about how manufactures shouldn't sell their cars in the northern states, southern states, Sweden, UK, Ireland, Iran...
Get the picture?
This means lower resale values.
On the other hand, right now the ENTIRE used car market is currently depressed because the new car manufacturers, including PeekABoo, have had 0-0-0 sales since 9/11, meaning MANY almost new, lightly used cars were put onto the used car market at once (the trade-ins for the 0-0-0 cars). And, at the same time that many people who otherwise would have been used car buyers bought new. So, oversupply and underdemand equals lower prices.
Same thing happens when a manufacturer has a large number of fleet sales.
Get it?
My Miata's garage-mate is currently a Jeep Grand Cherokee. Since my playing-in-the-mud days are about over, the Jeep's replacement will not be a SUV. I will have to decide if I really need the superior haulability of the wagon I've been enjoying the past few years. For me it will come down to the functionality of the wagon with style and security penalties, or the style and security of the sedan. The hatch is an ugly compromise.
My questions as to both hatch and wagon are these: How much structural rigidity am I giving up? What about noise?
Some reading this forum reside where the hatches and wagons are sold. Anyone own one? Driven one? What say ye?
http://www.autopacific.com/press/010203I.html
Like was said before you can make a deal with a dealer and buy some Hondas for your fleet but Honda doesn't "dump". So in reality they DO "discriminate". That's why the Accord is actually the highest selling car since it has the highest numbers to individual people.
I have no problem stopping talking about the Accord if you Mazda people can get together and do the same.
With all due respect, it IS getting rather old. The Accord is a fine car. Last I checked, there was no Mazda emblem on the front. This is not the Accord forum. Is that that difficult?
My POINT, was I (and most people I know) don't buy cars because of a shortage of used cars that were dumped or not dumped into the market. I made up my mind several years ago that I wouldn't buy any more used cars anyway (after all the trouble I've had out of them). And I'm not to proud of my new car purchases when I realize that something I bought 5 years ago is now only worth a 1/3 of what I paid for it, or that I loose $5,000 or more as soon as I drive it off the lot. When I purchased my Mazda6, and my two Honda Civics, I didn't check once to see if it was one of these type cars that fell into the category of fleet sells.
But apparently I'm falling into this trap of discussing things that (to me) are incidental in purchasing a vehicle. So if this is all that important to some of you then, you're right, I AM missing the point. In the future I'll stay out of this discussion, and read about those things that get by blood to boil when you're talking about the good points (or things I REALLY need to know)about my present purchase.
But neither car can touch my '6- it's just a whole different type of car. Just refinement is one thing, refinement and sporty is another. Even my wife, the Camry owner, is jealous- and she think 'sporty' is stupid. At 80mph, I muted the stereo on the highway and couldn't hear the 4cyl engine- just slight wind noise. The refinement is on par with the other midsize cars- so much so, that it detracts from the sportyness. It's so well behaved, it doesn't have the feeling of danger or speed when ripping through turns or accelering- even though it does this better than many sports cars. That security, comfort, and quietness (when not revved :-), perhaps, is what confuses people into thinking this car is their competition, when in reality this isn't meant to be another CamCord like their owners make it out to be.
So please, give me a break. No matter what you're reason for being here, this thread is for the '6 alone. There is another thread for comparing the '6 to the Accord. I'm happy enough with my purchase that I'd rather be ignorant to other cars and not have to read about them anymore- especially 'boring' ones. Let me know when I can drive an RX-8, the next interesting 4-seater.
Last night I had a full load of friends in the car (comfortably, and I'm 6'5") and we did a little driving. They were impressed by my V6, so they said. The common comment was, "Geez... you took that turn at 50, but it felt the same as going 30mph in my car." Those comments from Protege, Accord, and Cougar owners. I let my Protege-owner friend drive, and he in particular loved the car. I drove his Protege (which I recommended to him), and remembered how much I liked that too.
BTW, Anonymous- there are lots of loaded 6i MT's around, especially in steel gray. Did you not look? When you got the Accord, you instead said it was due to lease rates, if I remember. That's a pretty good reason, IMO, but don't buy the argument of 6i MT's being hard to find.
Anyway, I've been ranting... but I'd really like to pose this question: Why is the Accord being compared to the '6 more than the Camry? Mazda HAS stated, officially, that the '6 isn't for everyone. The '6 is a niche player. That's their target, that's what they've made. OK?! Now the Camry- that's an 'everyone' car, just like the Accord.
Wait, don't answer that- let's keep this on the '6. Please!
When we were looking around our decision came down to the Solara, and the Accord (both coupes). I particularly like the sportiness of the Solara. My wife liked the Accord (who said wives know anything about what's sporty or not, but I love her anyway).
In the end I'm glad I got her to get in and experience the Mazda6. ;-)
Zoom, zoom
Why aren't 6 owners comparing their car to the Camry? Instead all we hear is "Accord this, Accord that" or "my car does this and this and this better than the Accord". It's a telling thing when 6 owners feel compelled to bash the Accord yet not mention the Camry at all. Could it be because you 6 owners are more threatened by the Accord? They don't even bring up the Accord in the Camry room at all. The Accord also jumped ahead of the Camry in the month of December. The Camry will win the 2002 title but 2003 should be interesting.
It was very interesting that the Camry beat both the Accord AND the 6 in slalom testing. If the 6s were such a "sports" car why did it tie with the Accord EX V6 and lose to the Camry XLE?
When we first starting looking at Accords the lease rates were attractive while the 6's were and still are atrocious. But in the end, we financed the Accord at 3.49% while Mazda could not touch that rate. And the Accord was cheaper. Paid invoice + accessories and got a good trade value. Even if the cars were equal the better deals on the Accord would've made our mind up for us.
And when we were looking we tried all of the local Mazda dealers and could not find a Steel Gray or Lapis Blue 6i manual transmission with leather, sport package, sunroof etc. Even the Mazda employee said they aren't building that many manual transmission 6's yet. So who's word should we take .. yours? or the person who works for Mazda? My point was that if Mazda wants to market this as a "sports sedan" then you should be able to walk into any dealer and find a 5-speed 6 with the Sport Package. I can bet that if you go to a BMW dealer they will have plenty of MT 3-series. Same goes for the A4, the G35 coupe, etc.
Also seeing a few LX's on a Hertz used car lot is understandable since some Accords ARE sold to fleets through dealerships and all. But in reality the numbers of Accords sold to fleets vs. number built is very small. And does not wreck resale value in that case.
BTW, the 6i-MT is the model in which you are most likely to "get" it.
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Let's see how they vote after a couple 500 mile days.
I agree with you, but for different reasons. I think the ride is very comfortable on long trips (drove 240 miles yesterday), but the steering is sensitive to wind gusts. It gives a lot of feedback, but that is one thing that is tiring on a long trip. This could be argued as an advantage- it keeps you involved. Nonetheless, it's minor. I still think this is a great car for long trips, but that does make an argument in favor of less aggressively tuned cars. Other than that, I think the ride is very quiet and comfortable, even on awful roads. I truly think the suspension is amazing.
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As a side note, I filled up for the second time yesterday, not long after I started my trip (so 75% city miles) and averaged over 30mpg. Amazing- I've been in a lot of DC's stop and go, the kind where you have to wait for a traffic light to cycle a few times before getting through. Anyway, I'm at 730 miles now! Woo!
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I am the king of editing posts 20 times in 20 minutes after I post them. Sheesh!
"For years Chrysler K-cars, Ford Tauri(first generation), and GM A body cars were top sellers."
And now they aren't and the domestic brands are losing more car market share every year. If it weren't for fleet sales he Taurus would be near dead. Over half go to fleets.
"Hey, wouldn't a Buick make a really good road trip car?"
Buicks DO make great trip cars. And that's also why the Camry sells so many cars. They chose the isolated Buick approach with a smaller more nimble car.
Honda has always been the more responsive alternative. Has worked for them since at least the 1990 model year when they really got into the family sedan sales race.
As it turned out, Hertz did not have the Mazda6 yet (contrary to their website), and I ended up with a 626, which the Hertz attendant adamantly claimed was the "comparable car." Uh, Ok.
There were three Mazda6's on display at the show, all with the sport package. They, along with the RX-8, garnered a lot of attention from the crowds. Mazda seems to be performing a "come-back" not unlike Nissan.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2025 MB GLE450e - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
And how was the 626, he asked evilly.
This time I decided I'd try the 6s with the 5 speed automanual. Handling opinions and such remain the same. Competent but not as sporty as I'd like - that can be changed with some aftermarket mods though.
As for the new tranny, I'd take this car with an automatic over a stick. Shocking to me as I've only owned sticks and pretty much exclusively only driven sticks (I learned on a manual at age 10). The automatic felt nice off the line in both normal and shifting modes. At corners I enjoyed the automanuals pretty quick downshifts...it's faster down than up, that's for certain. On the freeway the automatic in 5th gear seemed to be aimed more toward a lower engine rev. I noticed the engine's rpms were lower at 85 than they were in the manual. Anyone else see this?
One last thing, is it just me or is the 6 a pretty loud car? At freeway speeds it's got quite a roar. Maybe it's the aero cladding?
Lastly, I'm not into the spoiler and I think even if I did get the aero package I'd ask the dealer to swap my trunk with a non spoilered car of the same color - think it's possible? Heck they could charge me the same and then charge some silly goofball $400 more for it. It's a win-win.
BTW, I drove a G35 coupe (a car i thought I wanted) last night. No thanks. Too loud, too low, too cramped and not nearly as spirited or as much fun to me as the G35 sedan.
The heated seats have been surprisingly useful -- we don't get much freezing weather in Houston, but it's around 40 degrees F tonight, and the heat is really nice. One nit I have with the car is the center console -- I have long arms, and my elbow rubs against the console when I shift. I've learned to work around it, but it would be nice if I didn't have to, especially in a car that's "sports" oriented. Raising the seat helps, but I prefer being closer to the floor.
I went to a wedding yesterday, and got lots of compliments on my Mazda. It would appear that Mazda's advertising campaign has been at least a little effective -- I've heard "so that's the new 6," "it's got 220 hp, right?" "oh yea, I've seen the ads for that," etc... So at least people are becoming aware of it's existence. Hopefully, prospective new car buyers will be intrigued enough to at least give it a look.
The car has been very comfortable so far. I haven't had any kinds of problems, except that the passenger seat heat didn't work -- the dealer fixed that already. Otherwise, it's quiet, smooth, fast, with excellent handling and brakes. No squeeks, rattles, thumps or anything else so far. I'll be driving to Dallas (about 250 miles) in two weeks, so I'll post my impressions of its highway behavior after I get back.
One last thing -- someone mentioned that the car had a lot of "roar" at around 80 mph. I noticed when I drove a Sport equipped car that the 17" tires are noticably noisier than the 16" tires on my 6s. In fact, it was a factor in my decision not to get the Sport package. YMMV.
There are more credible sources.
New York Times review (which surprisingly found Mazda6 tops in the comparo they did).
CAR of Britain
AAA auto reviews (though they have their own biases)
Intellichoice
and best of all IMHO, (and they ain't talked about the 6, or I missed it if they did):
http://www.autoextremist.com
AAA tests are not out yet, as far as I know.
See this: http://www.emap.com/nav?page=emap.aboutus.websites.description&resource=157676
Subscriptions are available (and I am a subscriber). They have had very good things to say about the 6.
Car can be purchased at most large bookstores, like Barnes & Noble and such.