Is there anything FUNCTIONAL in the sport package other than the 17-inch wheel/tire package? I'm not that fond of the ground-effects kit, and I hate the spoiler. And for rough pavement 16-inch tires might be a better compromise on ride vs. handling anyway.
Not to mention that the 17's being low profile will cause the wheels to be far more prone to damage. The V rated tires will wear out quickly. Plus the only V rated tires I ever owned were worse than useless in rain and snow.
If a "tiptronic" is good enough for Porsche race car drivers I would say its good enough for us who dont like a manual trans but still enjoy really driving a car to its limits.
No porsche pro that I know of would drive a tiptronic as it's little more than an auto tranny. Now an SMT I could believe as it's a legit manual with clutch plates and the like, just no clutch pedal.
BTW, VW initially launched the Jetta with little emphasis on performance. Over its run through VW has spruced it up considerably...first the turbo 1.8t at 150 HP, then a bump to 180 HP, then a bump to the VR6 to 200 HP. Add in the shift from 15 inchers to sport suspensions, 17s, 6 speeds, stability control and they've clearly aimed to expand the car's audience to people who want fun and fast in an econobox sedan...something missing entirely from the segment. 25% of sales are the 1.8T, another 25% are VR6 and something like 10-12% are TDI, leaving the basic 4 cylinder with the leftovers.
**If a "tiptronic" is good enough for Porsche race car drivers I would say its good enough for us who don't like a manual trans but still enjoy really driving a car to its limits.**
For most people that would be the city limits and out in the country.
That's why auto trannies sell better than 5-speed MTs. Most buyers want a beautifully styled car to be seen in and care less about driving it at its limits. They use it for business and family hauling. Smooth shifts are important to avoid interuption of business conversation on the way to lunch and return. Passengers do not appreciate having to hold on to grab handles and "boy racer" road antics. I know I don't -- it impresses me NOT.
But many buyers are beginning to understand what good "handling" means and know when to drive smoothly and when to drive for the fun of it. They will be the new Mazda customers. Buyers with Audi/BMW tastes and Mazda pocketbooks.
Th 6 isn't a BMW, but it beats the hell out of the alternative in most repects. You can't have it all for $20K, but you can sure come close.
Last week, CNN.com had an article on their web site about manual vs auto trannies. CNN said that 70% of buyers would opt for autos. The next day they posted the rebutals from manual drivers.
The only way to get the BMW experience is to buy a used one or a new one. People here keep talking about reliability, what about BMW's? Not to mention the bigger expense of service and repairs.
G35--I don't know if your prediction (a 40,000 - 50,000 unit a year car) is just for the first year. I think by the third year, with three body styles out and a reputation built up, it'll at least double that.
I haven't driven the Legacy GT, but I wouldn't ever have expected it to sell well based on image, because the Legacy/Outback models are already thought of as outdoors/snow type cars rather than sports sedans. The 626 never established much of an image because it tried to be another Camcord. The 6 is trying to emphasize the fun-to-drive quotient. I guess you can argue that the Altima and Passat are already in that niche, but most of the reviews have said that the 6 fits the image it's trying to project, probably better than the competition.
And while I'm at it, the image Mazda is trying to project is fun-to-drive, not raw power. It's "zoom-zoom," not "my car will blow your car out of the water on the straightaway."
The other factor beyond image is whether 6 owners like their cars. In Consumer Reports' ratings (based on owner surveys), the 626 gets a poor rating for owner satisfaction, despite pretty good reliability. This naturally affects resale value and hurts sales. I haven't compared them, but every review I've read says the 6 is much better than its predecessor, so unless it ends up being terribly unreliable, it's bound to please its owners and sell well.
There is a magazine distributed at the mazda dealer called "FUEL". Go get the latest copy and turn to the last page and get your bonus refrigerator magnet in the shape of the mazda 6. For those "GOTTA HAVE IT" people.
Just ignore the posts about sales from those two. It seems that every single post from one of them has a sentence that has to do with sales. Sales, sales, sales. Always. Same topic from the same folks plastered all over townhall every day. It's annoying. I don't really care if it sells like an Accord, in fact I'm glad that it won't.
Some of these posts are hilarious! If you're down on the 6 get out of the discussion! You're value un-added. For the rest of you, the 6 is a 10 and we can say that you see we've got a 6s manual. Only hope not too many people end up buying the car so we continue to get the looks we do..... Accord, Altima, Jetta, Legacy, G35, etc.., all nice cars and can't go wrong.
The 6 has "IT" and unfortunately, will be all to common when others find out. (don't mean to be selfish, but it's like a secret fishing spot, eventually people find out!)
I have the lip spoiler on my 6 and it looks great! It's for people who don't like the wing type spoiler, and (if I have to say so myself), gives the car a much more classy look. If anyone can tell me how, or where I can put it on the web I can show it to you. By the way, why don't we ALL make a site where we can show what we've got?
MSN has a community board where you can post pictures for others to view and add pictures.
Or are we seeing the same people post the same old opinions over and over. So let's summarize and then move on, shall we? Sales - No, the 6 won't sell like the Camry or Accord. But, if the positive reviews and owner raves are any indication, it should sell better than the 626. Only time will tell. Acceleration - No, the 6 isn't quite as fast as the Accord or Altima. Any questions? Handling - Yes, we know on paper the Accord handles as well. Some of us who have driven the 6 know that there's more to handling than numbers. Pricing - Yes, we know it's priced about the same as the Accord. You can probably get a better lease deal on an Accord. Depreciation - No, it won't hold it's value as well as the Accord. Did anyone really think it would?
Those of you new to the discussion wanting to check out how a customized 6 would look like should check out Mazda's Virtual Garage .
It's a Mazda of Japan site so the models are japanese spec - some colors aren't carried over there (i.e. the Sedan's Redfire and Yellow) , right hand driver's side, side-mirrors with turn signals, and there are more aftermarket mods (most of the interior mods are pretty tacky, if you ask me). But you get a look at the hatch and the wagon and the lip spoiler.
I am happy to see so many positive reviews about the new 6, and to see I am not the only one impressed by this car. I think I can add a unique perspective to this car as I recently sold my 1998 Audi A4 2.8 Quattro Sport for a new Mazda 6s.
I was forced to sell the A4 as it was getting older and as a student who does not make much money, I could no longer afford the repairs, especially the electrical problems it was developing (I bought it used last year, and I came to realize the previous owners did not take care of it as I did). I absolutely loved the car, it was my dream car since high school. However, in order to afford to go to Europe after I graduate from the Air Force Academy with the rest of my friends instead of pouring more money into the Audi, I was forced to sell it for a new car with a warranty.
After checking out a newer Audi A4 to lease, I walked next door to Mazda as the 6's they had were just off the boat. I was impressed. To me, they were basically an Audi/BMW clone for less money, and minus some of the superfulous options. They offered me a great price for my Audi and a great lease plan, and as the 6 is an absolute blast to drive here in Colorado, I purchased one, fully loaded, V-6.
Th 6 is as close to my beloved late Audi as I have ever driven, greatly more so than the Saturn L, Honda Accord, and Toyota Camry rivals I have driven. It has soul, it has character, and it is not abundant in rental car numbers. Instead of the Accord's "revel in my perfect ergonomics and supremely smooth V-6", it says, "lets play, lets go break some speed laws, and although I'm not the fastest, we will have the most fun!"
I'm glad at least one car company has started to realize that some people, maybe not everyone, but a good number (young people like me, 22) want something quick, reliable, and mostly, fun to drive. The 6 is that and more, it is the spritual successor of the Audi I once owned.
P.S. Unfortunately, the only V-6 6's available in Colorado were auto's, and by the time an ordered one came in, I would be stationed in Europe. I like my tiptronic, although I really wanted a stick, but I feel for the American populace, it suits the 6 just fine, and can be just as fun as a stick, just not as quick.
And here is mine. I have somewhat of a dilema. I am finally in a position where I can afford quite a wide range of vehicles. No longer do I have to look for the most bang for the buck in the sub compact class of cars only. Yeah! Now, here is my dilema. I have driven everything that is available on the market in Sport Sedans. (Or wanabe sport sedans). There is only one I have not yet driven, and frankly, I probably will not. That is the BMW 3 series. Why will I not drive it. Well, basically 2 reasons: 1)I know I will be wowed by its excellent driving character, and then this would go against my second reason: 2) I do not want to see my self constantly coming and going every time I get in my car and head out somewhere. Since I live in what is seemingly the BMW 3 series capitol of the world, southern california, I will not get noticed. The other sad part of this equation is that 90% of the people who own them will never drive them antwhere near the capability level of the car, if they tried to they would probably crash the car or scare themselves into a therapy session. Now your wondering what this has to do with the Mazda 6. I have driven the 6, it is, at least in the Sport guise, an unabashed drivers car. Even with it's AutoManual trans. Its not the fastest of the sedans out there, but boy does this car handle. The only other car I have driven that I like the handling on, or the car, as much overall is the Audi A4. Yes, the Accord, the Altima, the IS300 will beat this car in accleration, of this I know. But the new 6 has something that all the others, with exception the A4, and the 325i, lack: Character. Yes, Character. A term that is so often lacking when one describes a So called sports sedan from the little island group accross the ocean. For me as soon as I set down in the drivers seat, then started the V6, I sensed it. Then after driving it over a course that included Freeway, long surface streets and some really great switchbacks on a mountain road, this car has it. The handling is simply superb. I dare say, that when Value is factored in, probably the best handling sedan you can buy. period. I could not upset this car, and boy did I try. (I did upset the sales person though. Woops) The Accord and the Altima wish they handled this well, as does the IS300(which is quite good). The altima also wishes that Nissan had spent some more money on the quality of the interior materials as well. Not to mention, that here to, There are simply SO MANY Accords & Altimas out there. Anyway, which one should I choose? The Mazda6 or the A4,1.8T? For me, this is the choice I have to make. Why the 1.8T version, you may ask, well because what it lacks in brute power, it makes up for in handling, appearance quality, technology, and is within the price range I want to spend in, albeit the high end of this equation. The interior is simply as gorgeous as it is functional. My concerns are long term reliability and repair costs after warranty. This is where I know the M6 may be the better buy. But, long term resale value is another concern, and I know the Mazda will take the big hit here? Thanks for listening via the written word. I look forward to your responses
I have a website specifically for mazda6 owners to post pics of their cars and 6-related stuff. Send along the pics and I'll dedicate a sub-page for it/you.
In some of the earlier posts, I noticed quite a bit of quibling over the fact the the Mazda 6's that have been seen so far, at least with the V6, have been only Automatics. That a true sports sedan should come with a manual as an option on all engine sizes. That a AutoManual stlye trans defeats the purpose of a car that is been touted be a true sports sedan. Well, for those narominded people who still love to put thigs into convenient, easy to identify "categories" if you will, this may be true. Grow up. In the real world of everyday life where taffic is ever increasing because of population and car growth, manuals are simply not as much fun as they use to be. In fact, they can be a real pain in the foot. When your on that favorite section of windy mountain rode and your pretty much by yourself, then a manual can add a great amount of satisfaction to the driving experience. But when you come out of the sky and now your back in traffic for the rest of your ride to work every morning, the manual is simply a sorce of distraction and irritation. I know it is for me. Now combine this with a left foot and knee problem that I have(obtained through sports injuries from my younger & dumber days) and driving a manual is simply not in the cards any more. (Even the future hot rods I am building will be automatics!). The Automatic transmissions of today are so far superior in performance than the ones of the not so distant past,it is simply amazing. Thanks to that almighty piece of technology that more and more is into our everyday lives: the microchip and its big cousins: computers. It would be nice if all the AutoManual trans out there, no matter what there called, that allow one to shift it as a manual up and down through the gears could be the true Auto-Manual transmissions that come on the great cars, such as Ferrari, Aston Martin and BMW.(real manuals, with real clutches, shifted electronically by a computer and associated solenoids) But alas, for most of us, we are burdened with the reality of cost when we purchase a vehicle and would not want to pay the price that would have to be asked of us to put that level of technology on a Camry? So, at least for me, I will take the AutoMaual and use it to the fullest extent is was designed to let me use it in, enjoy the same mountain roads I did before, all the while knowing that when that part of the ride is over, I simply pop the lever back into Auto mode and the trans will do the rest while I enjoy my tunes in the bumper to bumper traffic I sit in for the rest of my path to payment money. Oh one more thing, and for me this is a biggy, at the end of the drive I will be able to get out of my car and walk to my office without having to first head to the Medicine Cabinet to get an Ibuprofen for my left foot/knee. Amen for modern Automatic tranmissions.
I'm not saying you made a mistake or anything but you could purchased a BMW in europe for the same price you paid for your fully loaded 6 under the BMW military/diplomatic sales program. Starting price for the 325i is $24,100 plus destination charge of $265. Just something to think about when you lease runs out. ;-)
"I don't really care if it sells like an Accord, in fact I'm glad that it won't."
They build it in a factory that can produce 300,000 cars a year. Let's hope it sells better than 1/6 of capacity.
"Are we seeing the same people post the same old opinions over and over. So let's summarize and then move on, shall we?"
Well for one thing there is nothing to move on to since the only thing the 6 has that differentiates it from the crowd is handling. The same thing that supposedly the MPV has and the Tribute too in the commercials. Hasn't helped them much.
If we were to summarize and move on this forum would be over in two posts.
Excuse me, but Ford has plans for the rest of the capacity at Flat Rock. Suffice it to say that certain purists on another forum here at Edmunds Town Hall are going to be hopping mad, or should I say Palomino mad?
And I, too, get the idea he is taking leave in Europe. Else why on earth would one buy a car stateside then go overseas?
Yes - let's see some pictures of what some of the different packages/accessories/dealer-installed stuff looks like! I don't know how the 2 different kind of spoilers differ, either. I've only seen the ones on the lot at the dealer. And I wouldn't mind comparing 16" to 17" wheels, ground fx vs no ground fx, etc. etc. etc.
myphantom6, should I email you for the web address, or can you post it? Or is there also another spot on the web to see the stuff (other than the other countries' Mazda sites)?
His last paragraph states that he's going to be stationed overseas so I thought I'd suggest the program to him. You're right, I do believe it's next to impossible to take a leased vehicle out of country, let alone out of a particular state.
solowiow03, I read your message, based on the information you gave I'm assuming you bought your Mazda 6 from the above dealer in Colorado Springs. I go to Colorado College, and just before Christmas vacation I placed an order for a fully loaded Mazda 6s (MT). It should be arriving by mid-Febuary. Since we purchased our cars at the same dealer, it would be interesting to know how much you paid for it. They were insisting on MSRP, but I managed to knock about 5% off before making the deal.
I went to that link you provided...which spoiler is that, that you can add or subtract from the exterior? Is that the "sport package" spoiler? Or the "lip" kind that others have mentioned here? I don't know which I'm looking at, or how it compares to the other kind.
Very interesting question. I have an A4 and I've been considering the Mazda6. I must say that I've enjoyed my 1997 A4, which I bought used, like solowiow13. But it has definitely had its share of glitches--nothing horrible, just not the kind of ownership experience you'd get with, say, Honda. Your comment on long term resale value is probably the important factor here. Are you leasing? If so, the A4 is probably a more known quantity now. Would you be getting a quattro or FWD? In SoCal, FWD may be just fine in resale; in most parts of the country you'll take a big hit by not getting quattro. So the A4 and the 6 may not be comparably priced--you can easily get up to $30K with a new A4 1.8Q. But if you're leasing, the better residual on an A4 1.8Q probably makes it a better deal than a loaded 6. I think both cars have good warranities for 4 years. Now, if you're buying, I think a 6 has the potential to be a lot better value long term. Let us know what you decide!
It's good-looking...MUCH improved over that boring lump they called the 626 (not to mention that dorkmobile '03 Accord). And it will be offered in hatchback and wagons, not just sedans. So outselling the 626 is a "no brainer." They question is by how much.
"They build it in a factory that can produce 300,000 cars a year. Let's hope it sells better than 1/6 of capacity." Sure, the factory could handle 300000, but if the suppliers are all set up for a maximum of 80000, then that's all you could build, isn't it?
"Well for one thing there is nothing to move on to since the only thing the 6 has that differentiates it from the crowd is handling.
"If we were to summarize and move on this forum would be over in two posts."
Whatever. Arguing in this forum is like talking to a wall. You can do it, but it's pointless.
There is a wonderful place this board can move to, but it's going to take some time. The transition from speculation to ownership is required. Most people in here are debating about buying one, or talking about what they 'think' the 6 is/isn't.
As owners multiply I'd love to see this forum transform into people talking about their personal, long-term experiences and things like the modifications they'll do or have done or places they took the car. A true community for 6 owners. I could care less about the 'this car is better than that' conversations. That issue came to and end for me when I ordered one.
Time will tell, but I doubt the transition to true community will happen. Most here seem content to bicker and play the 'this is better than that' game or play armchair quarterback with Mazda's marketing. Besides, other boards I've found that are dedicated to the 6 are infinitely better places for real-world information.
Buy one. Don't buy one. Then shut up. It's that simple.
Well, for one, it generates buzz. Every time I look at the Top 10 Hot Discussions list on the Town Hall homepage, the Mazda6 is at the top of the list. Quite a lot of people read these Town Hall discussions, and it will raise awareness of the car. Plus, I am going to argue with the critics, because I don't want a casual reader to look at this forum and see a negative comment that goes unanswered, because that could leave an unrealistically bad impression of the car.
I relinquished my 6 drivers seat to go to LA last night with my VR6 friend. Nice power and competent handling, but geez the ride on that car is more stiff than a Protege. I'll drive next time.
What is going on in this discussion is similar to what I just heard from my local Mazda dealer. When I asked him how the 6 was selling, he said there is a lot of interest, but I got the impression that sales were not great. A lot of us are interested, but haven't committed yet. There are a lot of nice cars out there, each with their pros and cons, so the decision is not easy. That, and the fact that some of us are waiting for the hatch or wagon. In my own case, I'm waiting for a 16 year-old driver to be fully trained and turn his permit into a license and then drive the car I am currently driving.
we argue because it's fun. Active discussion is so much better than..
Yeah, the 6 is fun to drive.
I put on new tires.
I got a ticket today.
You want a 6 Owners Forum, then go to one, there are at least 5 of them on Edmunds. As best I can tell this 6 board is for everyone, for any discussion concering the 6 not just for those who are Owners of a 6.
I'm not saying you made a mistake or anything but you could purchased a BMW in europe for the same price you paid for your fully loaded 6 under the BMW military/diplomatic sales program. Starting price for the 325i is $24,100 plus destination charge of $265. Just something to think about when you lease runs out. ;-)
Um, that's not even close then.
A loaded Mazda6 can be had for about 22k before TTL. A ED BMW 325i with the same equipment (leather, moonroof, sport suspension, 17s) will run nearer to 28k or more.
But it doesn't make for much of a point then. In fact the few people here that have actually purchased a 6 and NOT had the benefit of the S-plan are paying lose to MSRP. Mazda lost a sale here for not dealing on the new car. The same thing is happening to the Element though. HUGE surcharges on an unknown product.
"A loaded Mazda6 can be had for about 22k before TTL. A ED BMW 325i with the same equipment (leather, moonroof, sport suspension, 17s) will run nearer to 28k or more."
Are you talking about overseas or hear in the states?
This is a question for everyone.
Is the a place (besides MSN communities.com), where you can post pictures for others to see? In the communities you have to log on and have new visitors "log in" in order to show photos. It' really not that hard but I was just wondering if there's something out there that's easier?
My 99 Miata was my first (and so far only) MT. I wondered if it would be a pain in traffic. It is not - the clucth is so light. I recently got stuck in a 2-hour-stop-and-crawl. It wasn't nearly as tortuous as I would have expected when I was an AT driver. I also wondered if, as someone expressed, it would only be fun in the twisties. The feel of a Miata shifter, the smoothness and precision, like a polished rifle bolt sliding into place, is always rewarding. It keeps every drive interesting. I would have no other tranny in a Miata.
I will probably buy a 6 next year. The Miata's garage-mate does not need to be a hard charger; I have the Miata for that. I think the garage-mate's first requirement will be refinement. I want a refined, smooth, comfortable sedan that can be driven aggressively, but doesn't have to give me that extension-of-the-body feel I get from the Miata. Isolation is unwanted in the Miata, but somewhat wanted in the garage-mate. I don't know if the 6 will be a MT or an AT. It depends entirely on the test drives. If the 6 MT is precise and the clutch is light and it just feels good I will get the MT. If it is clunky and rough I will definitely get an AT. In the event of a tie...
Reliability. I have seen so many people have so much trouble with ATs. I have had so much trouble myself. And NOBODY knows how to fix them. They are like some lost technology that we inherited from aliens that nobody understands. I've never known anyone to have much trouble with MTs. Just the occasional clutch replacement. I am convinced MTs are inherently more reliable than ATs and I certainly appreciate the fact they weigh less.
PS.
My dad just bought a new Accord - 4 cyl, 5-spd-AT. Very refined, it may beat the 6 on refinement. It wasn't much fun to drive. The steering didn't seem very "connected," the chassis/suspension just didn't feel very snubbed down. I certainly prefer the dash/center column of the Accord. But it is an ugly car from so many angles and I expect the 6 will be nearly as refined and more fun to drive.
My friend's wife just bought a 6, 4 cyl, MT, sport package (talk about ugly). I wonder if she would trade me for the Miata for a week...
Mazda salesguy just left a message, saying Mazda is offering "90 days with no payments". I didn't get the details yet, but I assume that's on a Mazda loan.
Trade with her if you can, or check it out at a dealership. I thought the 6i MT tranny & clutch were good, but have not driven a Miata or the 6s MT (which has been said to be not as good). I would welcome your comments, especially since we have had one poster say the 6 is no Miata. Interesting to hear your thoughts on the Accord too.
regarding the launch of the hatchback in the U.S. Here is their reply:
"Thanks for your interest in the upcoming MAZDA6 hatchback! The MAZDA6 hatchback will be available in the U.S.. The exact launch date of the hatchback is not known at this time, but you may expect to see it in the 2004 model year. I will pass on your comments to our Product Planning Department. "
I also asked why the Power Moonroof and Leather/Comfort Package were a "all or nothing" combo, in a reply email. Haven't heard back on that yet.
The sedan's (Atenza Sedan) lip spoiler is selectable on the Virtual Garage, it lies 6 buttons from the top on the exterior options menu. The change is fairly subtle when you select it, gives the 6 more of an A4 look if you ask me.
I tried to 'configure' a Mazda6i (4-cylinder) with manual transmission and a power moonroof. IIRC, it told me I had to get leather, some sort of 'premium package' and ABS in order to get the $700 moonroof (total price ~$4500). If this is actually the case, then why even show the moonroof as an available 'stand alone' option on the website? This reminds me of what Nissan is doing with the Altima. Not good for me. I'm starting to think Mazda should just configure the 6 (and likewise Nissan with the Altima) like Honda does with the Accord; that is, if you want a moonroof, you do have to get a 'top' model (the EX), but it doesn't end up costing anything like $24k like the 6 unless you buy the optional leather or get the V6 model. I don't like leather, I don't want a spoiler, I don't want an automatic and I can't spend $24k. I just want a moonroof, why is that too much to ask? I'm wondering if it's possible to get one from the dealer?
I have owned four Mazdas in the past: 80 626 coupe, 92 Miata, 96&98 Millenia. Never a problem out of any of them. Received an offer to drive the new 6 and get a prize. Why not. Drove a white 6s, 5sp, beige leather, list 23200. What a together car. It has plenty of zip, rides firmly, but not uncomfortably, is decently quiet, and is just plain fun. Mazda did a great job with the 6. I know those who own a 6 now or soon to be owners will be smiling every time they find an excuse to get out and drive. A new car isn't in the near future for me...but I had fun!
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
Comments
No porsche pro that I know of would drive a tiptronic as it's little more than an auto tranny. Now an SMT I could believe as it's a legit manual with clutch plates and the like, just no clutch pedal.
BTW, VW initially launched the Jetta with little emphasis on performance. Over its run through VW has spruced it up considerably...first the turbo 1.8t at 150 HP, then a bump to 180 HP, then a bump to the VR6 to 200 HP. Add in the shift from 15 inchers to sport suspensions, 17s, 6 speeds, stability control and they've clearly aimed to expand the car's audience to people who want fun and fast in an econobox sedan...something missing entirely from the segment. 25% of sales are the 1.8T, another 25% are VR6 and something like 10-12% are TDI, leaving the basic 4 cylinder with the leftovers.
For most people that would be the city limits and out in the country.
That's why auto trannies sell better than 5-speed MTs. Most buyers want a beautifully styled car to be seen in and care less about driving it at its limits. They use it for business and family hauling. Smooth shifts are important to avoid interuption of business conversation on the way to lunch and return. Passengers do not appreciate having to hold on to grab handles and "boy racer" road antics. I know I don't -- it impresses me NOT.
But many buyers are beginning to understand what good "handling" means and know when to drive smoothly and when to drive for the fun of it. They will be the new Mazda customers. Buyers with Audi/BMW tastes and Mazda pocketbooks.
Th 6 isn't a BMW, but it beats the hell out of the alternative in most repects. You can't have it all for $20K, but you can sure come close.
Last week, CNN.com had an article on their web site about manual vs auto trannies. CNN said that 70% of buyers would opt for autos. The next day they posted the rebutals from manual drivers.
The only way to get the BMW experience is to buy a used one or a new one. People here keep talking about reliability, what about BMW's? Not to mention the bigger expense of service and repairs.
fowler3
I haven't driven the Legacy GT, but I wouldn't ever have expected it to sell well based on image, because the Legacy/Outback models are already thought of as outdoors/snow type cars rather than sports sedans. The 626 never established much of an image because it tried to be another Camcord. The 6 is trying to emphasize the fun-to-drive quotient. I guess you can argue that the Altima and Passat are already in that niche, but most of the reviews have said that the 6 fits the image it's trying to project, probably better than the competition.
And while I'm at it, the image Mazda is trying to project is fun-to-drive, not raw power. It's "zoom-zoom," not "my car will blow your car out of the water on the straightaway."
The other factor beyond image is whether 6 owners like their cars. In Consumer Reports' ratings (based on owner surveys), the 626 gets a poor rating for owner satisfaction, despite pretty good reliability. This naturally affects resale value and hurts sales. I haven't compared them, but every review I've read says the 6 is much better than its predecessor, so unless it ends up being terribly unreliable, it's bound to please its owners and sell well.
For those "GOTTA HAVE IT" people.
The 6 has "IT" and unfortunately, will be all to common when others find out. (don't mean to be selfish, but it's like a secret fishing spot, eventually people find out!)
MSN has a community board where you can post pictures for others to view and add pictures.
Do I have any takers?
Sales - No, the 6 won't sell like the Camry or Accord. But, if the positive reviews and owner raves are any indication, it should sell better than the 626. Only time will tell.
Acceleration - No, the 6 isn't quite as fast as the Accord or Altima. Any questions?
Handling - Yes, we know on paper the Accord handles as well. Some of us who have driven the 6 know that there's more to handling than numbers.
Pricing - Yes, we know it's priced about the same as the Accord. You can probably get a better lease deal on an Accord.
Depreciation - No, it won't hold it's value as well as the Accord. Did anyone really think it would?
Now can we move on?
It's a Mazda of Japan site so the models are japanese spec - some colors aren't carried over there (i.e. the Sedan's Redfire and Yellow) , right hand driver's side, side-mirrors with turn signals, and there are more aftermarket mods (most of the interior mods are pretty tacky, if you ask me). But you get a look at the hatch and the wagon and the lip spoiler.
Check it out!
I was forced to sell the A4 as it was getting older and as a student who does not make much money, I could no longer afford the repairs, especially the electrical problems it was developing (I bought it used last year, and I came to realize the previous owners did not take care of it as I did). I absolutely loved the car, it was my dream car since high school. However, in order to afford to go to Europe after I graduate from the Air Force Academy with the rest of my friends instead of pouring more money into the Audi, I was forced to sell it for a new car with a warranty.
After checking out a newer Audi A4 to lease, I walked next door to Mazda as the 6's they had were just off the boat. I was impressed. To me, they were basically an Audi/BMW clone for less money, and minus some of the superfulous options. They offered me a great price for my Audi and a great lease plan, and as the 6 is an absolute blast to drive here in Colorado, I purchased one, fully loaded, V-6.
Th 6 is as close to my beloved late Audi as I have ever driven, greatly more so than the Saturn L, Honda Accord, and Toyota Camry rivals I have driven. It has soul, it has character, and it is not abundant in rental car numbers. Instead of the Accord's "revel in my perfect ergonomics and supremely smooth V-6", it says, "lets play, lets go break some speed laws, and although I'm not the fastest, we will have the most fun!"
I'm glad at least one car company has started to realize that some people, maybe not everyone, but a good number (young people like me, 22) want something quick, reliable, and mostly, fun to drive. The 6 is that and more, it is the spritual successor of the Audi I once owned.
P.S. Unfortunately, the only V-6 6's available in Colorado were auto's, and by the time an ordered one came in, I would be stationed in Europe. I like my tiptronic, although I really wanted a stick, but I feel for the American populace, it suits the 6 just fine, and can be just as fun as a stick, just not as quick.
Email me by clicking on my username.
-Alt
They build it in a factory that can produce 300,000 cars a year. Let's hope it sells better than 1/6 of capacity.
"Are we seeing the same people post the same old opinions over and over. So let's summarize and then move on, shall we?"
Well for one thing there is nothing to move on to since the only thing the 6 has that differentiates it from the crowd is handling. The same thing that supposedly the MPV has and the Tribute too in the commercials. Hasn't helped them much.
If we were to summarize and move on this forum would be over in two posts.
The local JAG can calrify the terms of the lease and explain why for active military buying is often the better choice.
And I, too, get the idea he is taking leave in Europe. Else why on earth would one buy a car stateside then go overseas?
myphantom6, should I email you for the web address, or can you post it? Or is there also another spot on the web to see the stuff (other than the other countries' Mazda sites)?
Your comment on long term resale value is probably the important factor here. Are you leasing? If so, the A4 is probably a more known quantity now. Would you be getting a quattro or FWD? In SoCal, FWD may be just fine in resale; in most parts of the country you'll take a big hit by not getting quattro. So the A4 and the 6 may not be comparably priced--you can easily get up to $30K with a new A4 1.8Q. But if you're leasing, the better residual on an A4 1.8Q probably makes it a better deal than a loaded 6. I think both cars have good warranities for 4 years.
Now, if you're buying, I think a 6 has the potential to be a lot better value long term.
Let us know what you decide!
Sure, the factory could handle 300000, but if the suppliers are all set up for a maximum of 80000, then that's all you could build, isn't it?
"If we were to summarize and move on this forum would be over in two posts."
Whatever. Arguing in this forum is like talking to a wall. You can do it, but it's pointless.
There is a wonderful place this board can move to, but it's going to take some time. The transition from speculation to ownership is required. Most people in here are debating about buying one, or talking about what they 'think' the 6 is/isn't.
As owners multiply I'd love to see this forum transform into people talking about their personal, long-term experiences and things like the modifications they'll do or have done or places they took the car. A true community for 6 owners. I could care less about the 'this car is better than that' conversations. That issue came to and end for me when I ordered one.
Time will tell, but I doubt the transition to true community will happen. Most here seem content to bicker and play the 'this is better than that' game or play armchair quarterback with Mazda's marketing. Besides, other boards I've found that are dedicated to the 6 are infinitely better places for real-world information.
Buy one. Don't buy one. Then shut up. It's that simple.
That, and the fact that some of us are waiting for the hatch or wagon. In my own case, I'm waiting for a 16 year-old driver to be fully trained and turn his permit into a license and then drive the car I am currently driving.
Yeah, the 6 is fun to drive.
I put on new tires.
I got a ticket today.
You want a 6 Owners Forum, then go to one, there are at least 5 of them on Edmunds. As best I can tell this 6 board is for everyone, for any discussion concering the 6 not just for those who are Owners of a 6.
Um, that's not even close then.
A loaded Mazda6 can be had for about 22k before TTL. A ED BMW 325i with the same equipment (leather, moonroof, sport suspension, 17s) will run nearer to 28k or more.
The same thing is happening to the Element though. HUGE surcharges on an unknown product.
Are you talking about overseas or hear in the states?
This is a question for everyone.
Is the a place (besides MSN communities.com), where you can post pictures for others to see? In the communities you have to log on and have new visitors "log in" in order to show photos. It' really not that hard but I was just wondering if there's something out there that's easier?
Pages take 4 minutes to load just to get here.
Spent 30 minutes waiting and waiting.
fowler3
That's where the developers will look for feedback.
(The slow thing should be temporary and has to do with fully implementing the changes, btw.)
I will probably buy a 6 next year. The Miata's garage-mate does not need to be a hard charger; I have the Miata for that. I think the garage-mate's first requirement will be refinement. I want a refined, smooth, comfortable sedan that can be driven aggressively, but doesn't have to give me that extension-of-the-body feel I get from the Miata. Isolation is unwanted in the Miata, but somewhat wanted in the garage-mate. I don't know if the 6 will be a MT or an AT. It depends entirely on the test drives. If the 6 MT is precise and the clutch is light and it just feels good I will get the MT. If it is clunky and rough I will definitely get an AT. In the event of a tie...
Reliability. I have seen so many people have so much trouble with ATs. I have had so much trouble myself. And NOBODY knows how to fix them. They are like some lost technology that we inherited from aliens that nobody understands. I've never known anyone to have much trouble with MTs. Just the occasional clutch replacement. I am convinced MTs are inherently more reliable than ATs and I certainly appreciate the fact they weigh less.
PS.
My dad just bought a new Accord - 4 cyl, 5-spd-AT. Very refined, it may beat the 6 on refinement. It wasn't much fun to drive. The steering didn't seem very "connected," the chassis/suspension just didn't feel very snubbed down. I certainly prefer the dash/center column of the Accord. But it is an ugly car from so many angles and I expect the 6 will be nearly as refined and more fun to drive.
My friend's wife just bought a 6, 4 cyl, MT, sport package (talk about ugly). I wonder if she would trade me for the Miata for a week...
"Thanks for your interest in the upcoming MAZDA6 hatchback! The MAZDA6 hatchback will be available in the U.S.. The exact launch date of the hatchback is not known at this time, but you may expect to see it in the 2004 model year. I will pass on your comments to our Product Planning Department. "
I also asked why the Power Moonroof and Leather/Comfort Package were a "all or nothing" combo, in a reply email. Haven't heard back on that yet.
But I doubt you'll want that.
Dinu
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