Is there any difference (other than tires) to the i vs s and the sport package in terms of the suspension? Are all the cars based on the same suspension independent of engine size / sport package?
Overseas, the wagon is already AWD. So is the MPS (performance) version.
The suspension is identical with or with the sport package. The only difference in tuning in any market with any engine is for the V6, and that change is only to compensate for the extra weight.
I also am interested in AWD. On the mazda USA site there is a link that says "contact us". I sent an e-mail a little while ago asking about AWD and another subject. They did reply:
*****************************************************************- - - - - ********************* Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.
Starting in March you may order a 2003 MAZDA6s manual shift with a moonroof as a stand alone option. The website www.mazdausa.com should be updated with the new build combinations by the end of the month.
I am pleased that you took the time to bring your suggestions to our attention. Consumer feedback is very important to Mazda, and your comments have been forwarded to our Product Planning department. Certainly, we want to offer exciting vehicles, and comments such as yours help us to achieve that goal.
I hope this is useful information. Please let me know if there is anything additional I can assist you with.
Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500. *****************************************************************- ********************
If more people ask for AWD maybe Mazda will devote more energy to the project and make it available sooner.
Not much else to say except: In a week I'm going to test drive a 6 (if they have any). If they have the 5spd I4 GS w/Sport Package, then that's the one I want to drive, if not I'll drive anything in size 6
I'll also be test-driving A4s (98+99), Maximas (99), 3-series (98) as my cousin needs to get rid of his 00 Z24 as his lease ends and wants something along the lines of a luxury sports sedan. I made the case of why he should consider the 6, but he doesn't have enough $ for a new car, and he's pretty much set on an A4 (and yes I've warned him of the suspension squeeks, brake fade when wet, electrical issues, but he's set on it so we might as well get him one that will hopefully be trouble-free).
Mazda North America has essentially confirmed that the AWD version of the Mazda6 wagon will be produced. I have strong doubts they would produce an AWD sedan - but het, you never know.
Seriously, what are you doing in this forum with comments like that. They are deliberatively provacotive and really quite unnecessary.
I know people were throwing their elbows around inside the Mazda6 vs. Accord fourm, but thats why it was shut down.
Your criticisms about the Mazda6 (which you are entirely entitled too) have been recorded - ad naseum - for the record. Why don't you move onto something else?
Here's my conclusion: screwy option packages, when the car came out dealers wanted MSRP(not smart when the Accord is selling a little over invoice), and limited availability of a 5 speed manual(in the commercial they show a manual tansmission.) I expected the 6 to sell 3,000 last month. I came up a little short on that prediction. Sales have gone up every month but only slowly. My prediction for this month: at least it will sell 3100 units and at most it will sell 4000 units. Any opinions:
...deleted on my word, but I wouldn't call it provoking being that we're on the M6 thread. Aren't I allowed to boast about the '6 in the '6 thread? It was a little humor intended only for us fans of the M6 only. Now, if I did that in the Accord, Altima, or Passat forums, that's provoking.
. Dinu01: it sounds like you're so determined to like the '6 (or just plain excited) that you won't be thinking clearly on the test drive. Clear your mind! As much as I like the '6, it defeats the purpose of the test drive when you've predetermined that you'll like it.
I think 6 sales will start slow and move towards their 80,000 / year goal. I do think options packaging has hurt them some, but more so I believe this is a result of Mazda being an unknown brand. When I bought the car, nobody knew what it was. Now at least some people know of the car- they've seen a write-up in the paper or something. Much like the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", I expect sales to start small, but rave reviews will cause its popularity to spread. Mazda working out their options packaging will surely help, as will crash test results when they finally come in.
Then again, some people don't know what a Passat is, despite being Consumer Report's #1 pick for several years (among other things). 'Sporty' doesn't always sell- even though that has been all the rage lately- so marketing will play a big role in creating a desire for this type of car. Advertising (word of mouth or corporate) tends to sell more than the actual worth of the product, and I don't think Mazda is doing a good job marketing the car.
Does that make it a miss? Well, sorta. It's a miss for Mazda, and a blow to all those whoe like sporty cars. If the '6 succeeds financially, I don't think there is any debate that there will be a market shift towards sportier, more youthful vehicles. If it does not succeed financially, we'll still have it. The car itself is definately a hit. At this price, there is nothing that comes close to its level of both sport and utility without sacrificing comfort. If sales made a vehicle good, we'd the Ford F150 would be the best car 25 years running!
I thought the commercial grabs your attention. I had the TV on the other day and I was eating breakfast. Then I hear Zoom-Zoom-Zoom and that did grab my attention because I wasn't even listening to the TV. "Sporty" has sold of late: look at the Altima and G35(even though I don't like the G35 but it has sold.) I agree Mazda really hasn't been in the spotlight since 1993 when the Miata was the car to have. I have seen 6 6's in New Jersey so far though Mazda's don't really sell well here. Jersey is Honda, Toyota, Ford, and GM land. As far as people not knowing what a Passat: at least everybody knows what a Jetta is. When the New Altima came out at least it drew customers maybe not to buy an Altima but maybe even a Sentra or Maxima: at least Nissan was drawing customers to the showroom. Mazda customers may not buy a 6 but may buy a Protege. I just talk too much sometimes.
The zoom-zoom commercials are catchy to us because we're listening for them. If I'm washing dishes and I hear it, it jumps out only because I'm thinking, "That's my car!" Sporty has been selling, to an extent, in the form of horsepower. The illusion of sporty has been selling. Heck, people buy SUVs with 300hp engines that are advertised as sporty. Are they? Not really. Mazda has a truly sport car with numbers that aren't as convincing. To us it's obvious, perhaps, but it's not as easy to sell to someone who only knows how to mash the gas pedal. Such as...
Gee35coupe: The difference is that we're not using sales to justify the car being good (or bad). Sales are only being used to discuss popularity, not quality.
When you use handling to advertise your whole lineup and it's not working. It signals a problem somewhere. Mazda has been on the handling kick for a few years now.
MR-2? I like those cars, but I'm thinking something more affordable car cost and insurance-wise. I'm 22, so a 2dr, 2-seater, sports car is not my insurance company's idea of a suitable ride for me (if I plan on paying a decent rate).
Great car. The sound of that 2.0 Turbo right behind your head is intoxicating. Good examples aren't cheap. Especially the improved 93 and up ones. And you are right the insurance is no joke.
They were a handful in the rain too. Hard to find one that hasn't been wrecked.
Flat Rock has run short of V6 engines due to unexpected popularity, and I'm seeing more and more of them on the road each day. To date I've seen silver, white and grey S models on the road.
My Yellow S was born on the 31st of last month and is due to be delivered this week, so there's one more.
Mazda is launching a new product in what has to be the hardest selling environment in 20 years. A probable war and a stalled economy doesn't help sales period, much less a new lesser-known brand.
Once people start to see them in the flesh, they'll go looking for them.
when we are talking about a "hit or miss", this pertains to the US Market only.
In all other markets (that I know of), the '6 has exceeded its sales numbers (often by 200%). Mazda's profits are up 50% from last year. So on a global level, the car has already been an enormous success.
...it's not exactly a small part of why Mazda is working to reinvent themselves.
Per Charlie Hughes, President of Mazda's North American Operations:
"The numbers show we're on track [with the 6] better than Nissan Altima was at this time, but it takes time to reach a critical mass,"
With any new product, you have to give it time. Awareness and trust are not created in a day. Week or month. More marketing to come in March and April.
I don't think it's fair to criticize user-stretchjse. He's probably the only one here who actually OWNS a 6, and he's nice enough to share his thoughts. (His 1k mile review--on epinions.com and abbreviated on edmunds--was superb.) Heck, I've read dozens of posts from guys who merely test-drove a 6 for 5 minutes, yet they come off as experts!!.........and user-stretchjse is open-minded too. Sure, he's rabidly in love with his 6, but on epinions.com he also offers a very balancing review of the 2003 Accord.............I was only kidding when I said stretchjse "wore out" the host of 'Accord v. 6' and forced a shutdown of that board. In fact, he offered much to the discussion. If anything, I humbly take issue with the host of that forum--he/she was less an enabler of discussion and somewhat more of a dictator/thought-cop. It was getting repetitive, but shutting down that vibrant forum was unfair and precipitous; the 6 is just now hitting its stride versus the Accord and we have no forum to offer our views anymore. It's ironic (and puzzling), therefore, that the same host notes above that we should now police ourselves if we mention the Accord in this 'Mazda6-only' forum, which is basically a 'look-the-other-way' attitude.
You are far from correct in your perception of what I've done and why I have done it.
That said, this not an appropriate conversation to have here. Email me if you wish to pursue it.
I will clarify one thing here -- I did *not* say you should "police yourselves". What I said (or at least meant, I don't have time to look it up right now) is that I can't keep two people from talking about the Accord if people other than those two are going to do so.
IOW, I can't prohibit a subject based on who is posting about it. It has to apply to everyone.
I just did a TMV for a loaded i vs a loaded s (leather, sport, comfort, roof etc...) and the difference is more than $2700 ($22,735 for the i vs $25,490 for the s). It seems I did the same comparison last week and the difference was only about $1300.
Please keep in mind that we are not here to talk about each other.
If you don't like what someone says, you are free to ignore it. If you think that someone has crossed a line with a post, please email me and I'll check it out as soon as I can.
But no matter how provoked you are by a message, you may not respond by slamming the poster. If you can't find a way to respond civilly, then you need to not respond at all.
I hope this makes sense. As always, drop me an email if you have any questions about this sort of thing.
It looks like the TMV price for the 6s went up quite a bit. Right now it looks like it's hanging around MSRP. Also, looking on carsdirect.com the 6s is also a lot more expensive than it was previously.
Edmund's says they get their TMV pricing based on what other people have been buying their cars for. How detailed is their research? Where is this data obtained? Perhaps the initial TMV was merely speculatory (since it was a new model), and now it is based on actual data.
Either that, or the advertisements just started working today. I think I remember seeing 4.9% financing for the '6 mentioned a page back, and the Honda is planning to offer 2.9% on the Accord (so says the Accord forum). Dunno about the terms- I'd never finance, so I usually skip that stuff.
I don't think the TMV numbers on the 6 are much good yet. I think they're playing it safe (conservative). I got a firm quote for $1000 under MSRP when the TMV was showing $92 OVER MSRP in the same zip code.
For any of you that (like me) want the latest safety features without all the luxury stuff, www.mazdausa.com is now showing the 6s-MT available with just the SAB/SAC package at a MSRP price of $22070. This has to be the performance/safety bargain if the year! Also, note that the 6i version of this would have Premium, ABS/TCS, and SAB/SAC for (only) $20700. The only thing you wouldn't get on the 6i like on the 6s is the auto climate controls, no bog deal IMO. You can also now get Premium and ABS/TCS on the base model without buying any other options, if you don't care about the SAB/SAC.
The 6i really, really gets a bit torquier once it's loosened up a little. The engine will maintain speed at idle in 4th gear now- no prayer it would do that when new. Third and fourth gears work from 1250 and 1500 rpms on slight hills (normal roads), whereas they used to be useless. It's very, very analogous to running a cold engine versus an engine that has warmed up. In fact, when I start the engine on cold days, that's exactly what it reminds me of- the engine when new.
When I bought the car, I was underwhelmed by its acceleration and sorta wished for the V6. I was sold on the i4 by fuel economy, it's light weight, and price- not acceleration. Things have since changed, and I'm quite happy with it now.
I live in stop-and-go city, and it has enough torque for me. Then again, when I do take it on the highway, it is hardly zoom-zoom. I never have to down shift, but sometimes want to do it just for passing fun. Still, going into 4th gear doesn't provide the same oomph that a 3-2 downshift would, so it's less exciting. Third gear is good to nearly 90mph, but redlining the fast makes me nervous.
The i4 versus V6 debate can be answered by the type of driving you do. Has anyone noticed this dramatic improvement on the V6 as well? Have any publications added a Mazda6 to their long-term test fleets? Most cars are faster after a few years, but I expect this will be doubly so with the '6. Too bad my stopwatch isn't a reliable test :-/
Does anyone know what the $250 fog light option consists of? I think someone posted here that this option puts them in the traditional location in the front fascia, rather than in the headlights like on the Sport Package. True? Has anyone seen them?
stopped by my local mazda dealer yesterday, had 4 brand new 6's, no manual on any of them and all auto 4 cylinder's, cmon mazda what's going on here!!!
Anyways on a brighter note the salesman swore on his grave that north america will be getting the wagon later this year, and that it will be on display at most of the canadian autoshow's, i cant wait to see it in person!!!!
Look's like i will be in my new wagon by the end of the year!!! Oh and yes the mazda 6 look's great in person!!!!
they do mount in the lower part of the bumper. I saw them in the accessory brochure but have not seen them in real life. If you opt for the sport package and the bumper mounted lights, they will disable the combination lamp driving lights in favor of the bumper lights.
in case you ever wanted to golf at night, you could leave your low beams, high beams, integrated fog lights, and bumper fog lights running. Would you like some rear fog lights to go with that?
Sounds like something Clark Griswold would do. Or, maybe if the sun ever went out...
I apologize for any perception of a personal attack against the host. We should be thankful for such a host. Last night, I visited an auto discussion board at a major search engine. The board was as chaotic and undisciplined as any 'Mad Max' post-nuclear-apocalypse auto chase scene. I'm glad PatHOST is here to play 'Road Warrior' and to bring order to the melee.............I merely lamented the shutdown of the most active message board here, '6 v. Accord', and pondered its implications......to be fair, Edmunds' server space is limited and message boards must be curtailed eventually. That is absolutely and irrefutably at the host's discretion. What worries me is that the posters from that board (now homeless) will inevitably migrate to this 'Mazda6' board..........because, after all, cars are only interesting CONTEXTUALLY; that is, when compared to others. Alone, they're just hunks of steel and rubber. Also note that nowadays, there are really no "bad cars" out there--esp. in the mid-size segment. Standing alone, each is competent. That makes the ability to compare them so much more vital............The Mazda6 is as technically competent as Accord/Camry. But its technical voice will never rise above the roar of those 2 juggernauts. No, the 6 can only compete in a different, more subjective arena. That ethereal SPIRIT of a car can only be ascertained through comparison. Mazda's 'zoom-zoom' campaign plays to that spirit, probably more than any car company, and clearly out of necessity. A 'Mazda6-only' board tells us what the car does. A 'Mazda6-versus' board tells us WHO the car IS.
Ford is showing it's faith in Mazda!!...The all new 2005 Mustang will be built at the Flat Rock plant starting next year...This is an all new Mustang and a very important product to Ford.
Mercury will be getting a Mazda6 derivative car the same year...no details where it will be built yet...but there was a mention of an AWD version...mmmmmm
Too funny about using all those lights. How about rear fogs though, they could definitely be helpful. Most German cars have those standard. And they greatly help your car stay visible when it's dark/foggy/rainy out.
Thanks for the info on the lights. I guess you guys in CA get more fog than we do in the desert southwest, so maybe I don't need them. I think I recall 1 foggy day in the last couple years or so. They do look cool, though.
Mercury will be getting a Mazda6 derivative car the same year...no details where it will be built yet...but there was a mention of an AWD version...mmmmmm
That would be way cool. The V6 should be in its second revision by then- I'd want more torque for AWD. Maybe they'll make a '6 coupe as a Cougar?
Comments
btw, check this out
http://www.mindarrow.net/rx8presell2/static/rx8presell2.asp?cid=9- 97&mid=1404
The suspension is identical with or with the sport package. The only difference in tuning in any market with any engine is for the V6, and that change is only to compensate for the extra weight.
I also am interested in AWD. On the mazda USA site there is a link that says "contact us". I sent an e-mail a little while ago asking about AWD and another subject. They did reply:
*****************************************************************- - - - - *********************
Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.
Starting in March you may order a 2003 MAZDA6s manual shift with a
moonroof as a stand alone option. The website www.mazdausa.com should
be updated with the new build combinations by the end of the month.
I am pleased that you took the time to bring your suggestions to our
attention. Consumer feedback is very important to Mazda, and your
comments have been forwarded to our Product Planning department.
Certainly, we want to offer exciting vehicles, and comments such as
yours help us to achieve that goal.
I hope this is useful information. Please let me know if there is
anything additional I can assist you with.
Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to
assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely
satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also
contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500.
*****************************************************************- ********************
If more people ask for AWD maybe Mazda will devote more energy to the project and make it available sooner.
Not much else to say except: In a week I'm going to test drive a 6 (if they have any). If they have the 5spd I4 GS w/Sport Package, then that's the one I want to drive, if not I'll drive anything in size 6
I'll also be test-driving A4s (98+99), Maximas (99), 3-series (98) as my cousin needs to get rid of his 00 Z24 as his lease ends and wants something along the lines of a luxury sports sedan. I made the case of why he should consider the 6, but he doesn't have enough $ for a new car, and he's pretty much set on an A4 (and yes I've warned him of the suspension squeeks, brake fade when wet, electrical issues, but he's set on it so we might as well get him one that will hopefully be trouble-free).
Dinu
I know people were throwing their elbows around inside the Mazda6 vs. Accord fourm, but thats why it was shut down.
Your criticisms about the Mazda6 (which you are entirely entitled too) have been recorded - ad naseum - for the record. Why don't you move onto something else?
...deleted on my word, but I wouldn't call it provoking being that we're on the M6 thread. Aren't I allowed to boast about the '6 in the '6 thread? It was a little humor intended only for us fans of the M6 only. Now, if I did that in the Accord, Altima, or Passat forums, that's provoking.
.
Dinu01: it sounds like you're so determined to like the '6 (or just plain excited) that you won't be thinking clearly on the test drive. Clear your mind! As much as I like the '6, it defeats the purpose of the test drive when you've predetermined that you'll like it.
I think 6 sales will start slow and move towards their 80,000 / year goal. I do think options packaging has hurt them some, but more so I believe this is a result of Mazda being an unknown brand. When I bought the car, nobody knew what it was. Now at least some people know of the car- they've seen a write-up in the paper or something. Much like the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding", I expect sales to start small, but rave reviews will cause its popularity to spread. Mazda working out their options packaging will surely help, as will crash test results when they finally come in.
Then again, some people don't know what a Passat is, despite being Consumer Report's #1 pick for several years (among other things). 'Sporty' doesn't always sell- even though that has been all the rage lately- so marketing will play a big role in creating a desire for this type of car. Advertising (word of mouth or corporate) tends to sell more than the actual worth of the product, and I don't think Mazda is doing a good job marketing the car.
Does that make it a miss? Well, sorta. It's a miss for Mazda, and a blow to all those whoe like sporty cars. If the '6 succeeds financially, I don't think there is any debate that there will be a market shift towards sportier, more youthful vehicles. If it does not succeed financially, we'll still have it. The car itself is definately a hit. At this price, there is nothing that comes close to its level of both sport and utility without sacrificing comfort. If sales made a vehicle good, we'd the Ford F150 would be the best car 25 years running!
I will NOT buy a 6 before Aug/Sept 04, unless they'll be selling for $10.000 CAD, as I don't have the $ for it till then.
Dinu
PS: And I'll do my best to ignore certain posters that should be posting in other forums.
Buy a used Toyota MR2 so that I can live through you and you can live through me
Gee35coupe: The difference is that we're not using sales to justify the car being good (or bad). Sales are only being used to discuss popularity, not quality.
Dinu
They were a handful in the rain too. Hard to find one that hasn't been wrecked.
My Yellow S was born on the 31st of last month and is due to be delivered this week, so there's one more.
Mazda is launching a new product in what has to be the hardest selling environment in 20 years. A probable war and a stalled economy doesn't help sales period, much less a new lesser-known brand.
Once people start to see them in the flesh, they'll go looking for them.
In all other markets (that I know of), the '6 has exceeded its sales numbers (often by 200%). Mazda's profits are up 50% from last year. So on a global level, the car has already been an enormous success.
"Bulk of profit for Japanese manufacturers comes from N.A."
Per Charlie Hughes, President of Mazda's North American Operations:
"The numbers show we're on track [with the 6] better than Nissan Altima was at this time, but it takes time to reach a critical mass,"
With any new product, you have to give it time. Awareness and trust are not created in a day. Week or month. More marketing to come in March and April.
I'd say it's more of a general fondness. I'm madly in love with my wife.
That said, this not an appropriate conversation to have here. Email me if you wish to pursue it.
I will clarify one thing here -- I did *not* say you should "police yourselves". What I said (or at least meant, I don't have time to look it up right now) is that I can't keep two people from talking about the Accord if people other than those two are going to do so.
IOW, I can't prohibit a subject based on who is posting about it. It has to apply to everyone.
If you don't like what someone says, you are free to ignore it. If you think that someone has crossed a line with a post, please email me and I'll check it out as soon as I can.
But no matter how provoked you are by a message, you may not respond by slamming the poster. If you can't find a way to respond civilly, then you need to not respond at all.
I hope this makes sense. As always, drop me an email if you have any questions about this sort of thing.
Thanks.
Pat
Mike
Either that, or the advertisements just started working today. I think I remember seeing 4.9% financing for the '6 mentioned a page back, and the Honda is planning to offer 2.9% on the Accord (so says the Accord forum). Dunno about the terms- I'd never finance, so I usually skip that stuff.
You can also now get Premium and ABS/TCS on the base model without buying any other options, if you don't care about the SAB/SAC.
When I bought the car, I was underwhelmed by its acceleration and sorta wished for the V6. I was sold on the i4 by fuel economy, it's light weight, and price- not acceleration. Things have since changed, and I'm quite happy with it now.
I live in stop-and-go city, and it has enough torque for me. Then again, when I do take it on the highway, it is hardly zoom-zoom. I never have to down shift, but sometimes want to do it just for passing fun. Still, going into 4th gear doesn't provide the same oomph that a 3-2 downshift would, so it's less exciting. Third gear is good to nearly 90mph, but redlining the fast makes me nervous.
The i4 versus V6 debate can be answered by the type of driving you do. Has anyone noticed this dramatic improvement on the V6 as well? Have any publications added a Mazda6 to their long-term test fleets? Most cars are faster after a few years, but I expect this will be doubly so with the '6. Too bad my stopwatch isn't a reliable test :-/
Anyways on a brighter note the salesman swore on his grave that north america will be getting the wagon later this year, and that it will be on display at most of the canadian autoshow's, i cant wait to see it in person!!!!
Look's like i will be in my new wagon by the end of the year!!! Oh and yes the mazda 6 look's great in person!!!!
http://www.avtoin.com/zeneva2002/slike/Mazda%206%20SW.jpg
Go to sleep Leroy...er...a...Leon.
Sounds like something Clark Griswold would do. Or, maybe if the sun ever went out...
Mercury will be getting a Mazda6 derivative car the same year...no details where it will be built yet...but there was a mention of an AWD version...mmmmmm
Rich
That would be way cool. The V6 should be in its second revision by then- I'd want more torque for AWD. Maybe they'll make a '6 coupe as a Cougar?
Doubtful.