Mazda6 Sedan

doying5

Perhaps the low TVM on the 6 was due to so many splans right out of the shoot?

Those were my first few sales.

vocus

That makes sense.

I guess TMV is helpful, but I know I go for straight invoice when I buy a car.

maltb

I go for minimal lighting in the fog, but when it's clear, I want to see around corners. It really makes a difference on those unlit roads back in the boonies that are so much fun.

mazdafun

Not from a concept standpoint, but from a quality-of-design-and-construction standpoint.

I thought it looked great, but was very disappointed in the fit and feel of parts (mostly inside).

Good for the AAI plant. I know the 6 sedan by itself isn't pushing it nearly to capacity, even at the projected rate of 80,000 units a year.

redkey1

I have been looking into the 6 for a while and would like one, but before its emergence I was quite taken by the Maxima. Well, dealers near me have been offering great deals on 2003 Maxima's (for example, an SE w/ 6spd manual, 17s and the sunroof package for $21,900 - this is less than invoice on a $27k plus sticker.) Now, for that $$$ I can also get a 6i w/the sport package and sunroof. My dilemma is....6cyl 255hp w/ 6sp vs 4cyl 150hp 5spd. Oh yeah, the Maxima is also 2.9% for 60 months vs 4.9% for the 6.

Any thoughts?

capitano

would reject the Maxima simply because it is an older design on it's way out. Some would turn down the Maxima because of the rear suspension setup. Others might night like because it feels a little large. The exterior styling is a little lame IMO, though I've heard at least one person in the office talking about how nice it looks.

The Maxima would have a plusher interior and richer feel to it.

The Maxima has known high reliability. The 6 is still new (though expected to be at least above average).

I would probably take the 6 over the maxima just for the handling.

badtranny999

You're actually wavering between a 2003 Maxima and a 4-cyl Mazda 6?? Art thou mad?? Get the Maxima!! "Older" platform or not, it's still a superb chassis--every bit the equal of its 2004 replacement; and the 6-cyl mill is the best in the business. Plus, a Maxima is FAR more prestigious than a 6, with a lavish interior. And the sweetheart financing should seal the deal..........oh, and by the way, I doubt Mercury will ever see a 6-derivative. I predict the demise of Mercury by 2006. Ford did an extensive brand-recognition poll a few yrs back. Many of the participants did not even know that Mercury still existed!!..........Ford wanted to groom Mercury as its performance division. But MAZDA fills that role nicely, don't you think?

mazdafun

...get a stick.

I've some friends and family who've had to replace ATs in their Maximas over the last few generations of design (though no data on the current one...these were the 3 previous gens).

I know...anecdotal data, but still, it happened enough in my small circle of acquaintances that it bothers me.

Besides, why waste all that engine on an AT?

redkey1

I just have finally (well, almost)decided to give up my Jeep Wrangler...the harsh ride, noise and MPG just doesn't outweight the top down fun factor here in Boston. My comparison is based a lot on price....the Max is a heck of a deal at that price (w/ a 6spd manual..no AT here) but the praise for the 6's handling plus the fact that 2004 holds a redesign for the Max has me wondering. I am also comparing a loaded Jetta 1.8T GLS and (this is a bit strange but it seems like a bargain at less than 20k and it is a bout the same size as the Jetta) a Nissan Spec V.

ladybugnova

Redkey1:

   You asked for comments on the 2003 Maxima vs. a Mazda 6. While you can steal a 2003 Maxima with low purchase prices and a good interest rates right now, there is a catch, and that's b/c that vehicle is on its very old and dying legs right now. Specically, check out the latest car magazine issues, and you will see a much prettier, Z-like creature in the 2004 Maxima, which should be out very shortly (say Springtime). The old Maxima, while a decent car (no, very decent car--despite it's shamefully-dumbed down exterior--compare the beautiful 1993 Maxima, for example, with the current 2003 model or the 2004 model which looks sharp) and solid performer it is no match for the brand new Maxima or the brand new Mazda 6.

   As far as price, you can purchase a loaded Mazda6 s manual with all the options (see my prior posts for details) for around $23 grand, and that will get you better acceleration (0 to 60 in 6.8) and better skid pad numbers (.84) than the Maxima. Also, the 6, apparently, is coming out with some decent financing offers (I heard 4.9% for 60 months) and in general, can be had for near invoice prices. If you must get a Maxima, please consider the new improved 2004 version, which (albeit expensive--$28-35k apparently) will represent everything a sports/luxury sedan ought to be.
  
   (But if you do get the 2003 Maxima, cheers, it's a great car all-around).

LBnova

chikoo

>>>>if you're not really concerned with image or performance, and just want a four-door sedan to comfortably transport the family, we suggest driving and checking out both the Accord and the Camry. Either should suit you quite well.<<<<

>>>>the Altima and Mazda 6 are sportier and more fun to drive,<<<<

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2003/toyota/camry/100164727/review.htm- l?tid=edmunds.h..reviews..1.*

03accordman

The Max is a great deal presently, and even though it may be an outgoing model, it really is no comparison with a Mazda6. I have to laugh when somebody says that a V6 6 will have better acceleration than a Max. I would suggest you take the Max for a drive, without any preconceived notions, and I am telling you, it will blow the 6 away. I know the 6 has a big enthuiastic fan following, and I agree it is a great car, but comparing it to a Maxima is not a very good idea. The 255 HP V6 is the best in the business and Mazda can only dream of such a lusty engine. And there are a lot of people who complain about the Max's rear suspension, but again, I would suggest you drive both cars the same day, your choice will be much easier. Coming to 0-60 times, the stick Max has been tested to do a 6.0 sec blast, and the auto will do a 6.7-6.9 all day long. The Max is a true 4 door sports car and IMHO a steal at that price. In fact it is a whole class above the 6/Accord/Camry/Altima. A look at the luxiorious interior will also tempt you to get one. Regarding reliability, Nissans have over time proved to be no less than Honda/Toyota and just go to the Maxima forum where you will meet people on their 4th or 5th Maximas.

BTW, I drive a 2003 Accord LX I4, and would have loved to buy the Max, just couldn't afford it.

badtranny999

Well, of course, a Mazda 6s (6 cyl) is clearly superior to a 2003 Maxima (previous gen). The new 2004 Maxima is a sweet ride....but it's no great improvement over the previous generation. Torque steer is massive and uncontrollable and the front end is nothing to brag about. Personally, I don't think the 2004 Maxima is any better than a 6-cyl Altima. (They share the same platform.).......but, like I said, a 2003 Maxima is better than a 4-cyl Mazda 6. But user-ladybug has a point; check the pricing on the 6s first.

03accordman

Superior to the 03 Maxima in what way? Power? Luxury? sixe? Acceleration? Man, you guys really close your eyes when it comes to a 6. I would just say take the Max out for a drive. Accepted the Max has torquesteer, but its not so bad and primarily because of oodles of power for a FWD car, not a wimpy 220HP Ford Duratec. You guys talk like the 6 is God's gift to Automobiledom. I am sure that you would even put down a BMW 330i for some reason (maybe price) if there ever was a comparison

capitano

I haven't driven a current gen Maxima. I had driven quite a bit in the Infiniti I30 which is a gussied up Max. It definitely has scoot and the interior is very nice, but if just feels large. I like my cars more nimble and that's why I'd probably opt for the 6.

The fact that these maximas are being offered at such a steep discount is a sign that their time has passed.

Still I support the notion of driving both the same day to see which suits you better. In the end it comes down to personal preference.

Accordman, I don't think any of us are blind when it comes to the 6. We are just not all hooked on power as the yardstick that cars should be measured by. The 330i is a good example of that. It has less power than the Altima and new Accord but I don't think anyone would ever suggest that either of those cars is a worthy alternative to the 330i.

stretchsje

but don't fool yourself. The Maxima has luxury and an engine. The 6 is a total sports sedan- the whole package. Take your pick, we all have different priorities.

Some of mine would not be extra weight, torque steer, understeer, premium fuel, and solid-beam rear axles. The heavy engine and rear suspension really don't help the car whip around turns. You gain lots of power, room, and rear-set comfort, just be aware of what you are sacrificing.

mazdamarla

Yah - lowest octane (regular) gas today is $1.79 here - jumped up 20-cents since this morning. Premium's around $2/gallon. No thanks. Any car that takes Premium fuel is off my list.

gee35coupe

It causes instant blindness in here.

03accordman

Sure, if you are looking for a compact sports car, then you should go with the 6 (as i agreed earlier, it is a great handling car). And as always, it to each his own. You have to face the fact that the 03 Max is an outgoing model. Similarly, the 6 would have a low resale value, but again, if you plan to keep the car very long, then that does not matter.

Personally, I would go in for the Max. Happy driving.

03accordman

I posted because someone wrote that teh 6 will have better 0-60 times than a Max. What I mean is that the Max is a truly great value, and a lot of bang for the buck.

03accordman

Just like you Gee, my first choice was the G35, alas, no raises sincec the last 2 yrs, so had to drop the idea. Also, the fact that I have Accord in my penname, does raise heckles. I too have always said the 6 is a great handling car, but every car has its limitations, and fans should admit that.

afty

You can actually run the Maxima on regular gas. Premium is recommended but not required.

The Maxima right now is in a position similar to the Millennia. Both cars were designed to compete in a class higher than the Accord/Camry, but because of big discounts they can be had at very low prices. They are excellent cars, if a bit dated, and offer more luxury and refinement than other cars in their price range.

stretchsje

I posted because someone wrote that teh 6 will have better 0-60 times than a Max. What I mean is that the Max is a truly great value, and a lot of bang for the buck.

I do like the Maxima. It's great for a lot of people. I hope what I wrote was a good list of the pros and cons. The Max is very reliable according to Consumer Reports. No doubt the '6 is the driver's car of the two, while the Max is more luxurious. As far as value- I 'value' having a new model car, as they have stiffer chassis, more modern suspensions, etc. There's a reason older cars get discounts- I think for the same price the Max can be compelling if power is your vice. But- if it is- why not look into a V6 Accord?

(that's right, I just recommended an Accord)

capitano

But it's just not what I want. Being able to get a great deal on it, doesn't really make it more appealing to me.

I used to really like the older Maxes, like the 88-92 models. Since then they've got a bit uglier with each update. The Maxima 4 door sports car idea has stuck with me over the years though. It's just that now, I think the 6 better captures that idea than the Max.

redkey1

By my calculations (including 5% sales tax), a loaded 6s @ 4.9 would run about $450 a month, while the Maxima w/ sunroof, 17's & 6spd stick (no leather) @ 2.9 would run about $410.

I think the thing w/ the discounts is that it is getting hard to move the '03s (especially those w/ a 6spd now that the '04s are almost out). I still think the Max is a great car, and if not for the 6 I would probably buy it. Decisions, decisons.

Keep this going, I like to hear what others think and IMHO the max is a better comparison to the 6 than a Camry or Accord. For that matter, how much better is the handling on the 6 vs the Max?

gee35coupe

And all the hard looking plastic cheapens the car. I was in my sister's 1992 Camry today. The whole dash was soft-feeling vinyl and the whole door was covered with soft touch vinyl and cloth. Everyone is going to hard plastic all over the interiors. I hate that.

At least the old Max still has a nice interior.

stretchsje

you should start a new thread for this, or post about it in the Mazda6 versus Nissan Altima thread.

aromas

I too had the same dilemma. I was all set to buy the SE due to the heavy discounting but I took the 6s out for a test drive and I was sold(bought it 3 days later). For my driving style the 6 just seemed a perfect fit. I do alot of downtown driving and the car seemed more nimble, even though the turning circle is 38 feet, the 6 drove smaller. Went immediately back to Nissan and drove the SE again and the 6 seemed much more fun to drive.

I usually take corners fast and the rear beam axle on the Max really bothered me as the rear end would slide out almost every time I cornered fast (My father has a 2000 GLE Max so I've done alot of driving in it) The Max just seemed bulkier around town. I actually like the look of the SE with 17 inch rims so exterior is not the problem.

I pick up my 6s on March 1 and most friends have told me I shoulda got the Max mainly because they don't know the 6. The Max does have a higher status than the 6 but I know for my driving style I would of regretted it. Not to mention premium gas and higher insurance costs.

H.P is a trade off, no city driver needs more than 200 H.P. to get around, anything above that is just for bragging rights. The 6s seems to have alot of high end torque so highway passing is more than enough. They're both sedans if you wanna have the best 0-60 times get a real sports car. (i.e.RWD)

They're both great cars and the deals on the Max are incredible so you can't go wrong either way. I think the new Max is quite ugly(Saturn Ion lookalike) so I wouldn't worry about it being outdated.(Why are the Maxima's getting uglier and uglier with each generation?)

capitano

to be some chatter in the Altima board about the Max vs the Altima. Similar kinds of points were raised there too.

I haven't seen much on the 2004 Max. I perused a test in Motor Trend IIRC. It was a 2 car comparo and it came off second best but I can't remember against what. It definitely looks different and won't be available in the price range of 6.

gee35coupe

But it would be a tougher decision against the 03' Max as cheap as they are now.

afty

I haven't seen much on the 2004 Max. I perused a test in Motor Trend IIRC. It was a 2 car comparo and it came off second best but I can't remember against what.

It was tested against the Audi A4.

bbaggens

I also was looking at buying the Max SE loaded at a really good price (24 something) and then drove the 6. The 6 is much, much smaller feeling and I enjoyed the cornering much more. Basically it was more fun.

As far as comfort, prestige and looks (my personal opinion) the Maxima was at a higher level, but when I buy my next car (early summer) it is all about fun. So I will feel like I am not getting as luxurious of a car but I will look forward to my drive to work and especially that summer road trip to Whistler. The last 30 or so miles is pure windy goodness that is a pain in my mini van but would be heaven in a car like the 6 (or maybe the 8 .

Add on: I also do not like the looks of the 04 max and wonder how making it uglier is going to help sales ?????? Hmmm.

03accordman

I own a 2003 Accord with a 160Hp engine and have never felt lack of power at any time. So even 200HP is not something that is "required". Mostly its a case of flooring the throttle and experiencing a rush, and more power will do more of that.

I am just wondering if the case was opposite, i.e tha 6 had more power than a Max, would you be saying that the max is a weakling, and raving on the power output put out by the 6?

pat

Folks, please take comparison discussions to the right board.

Meanwhile there are all kinds of "6 vs." conversations there and others may be created if needed. Several of you want to discuss the Maxima vs. the 6 -- feel free to create a discussion on that subject.

Leave this conversation to the 6. Please.

bbaggens

I wouldn't say the 6 is a weakling. It's power feels much more controlable due to better handling and so it is much more fun. The max is powerful but if it handles so poorly that you can only use the power on the straighaways then I do not enjoy it so much. This is the reason the Altima was out of the bidding after we hit the first corner.

The 6 is a cornering persons car. The Altima is a straight away persons car. The Maxima is a more refined Altima with a bit better handling (but not much) and a much more luxurious feel. Basically it comes down to what you want in a car, thank goodness for choices.

ghostbuster23

I saw a blue 6s with the sport package today parked on Drummond street. I got to peek through the window. It does look sharp, but confirmed my opinion that I like it without the extensions. Looked too modded for me, Otherwise it looked hot, especially the interior. Oh, strangely, it looked wider than I expected it to be.

pat

Mazda6 vs. Nissan Altima.

Thanks for posting on topic, ghostbuster23!

stretchsje

This '6 isn't about power, it's about using its power. The '6 is a very balanced performance package.

igota6ssssss

I've had my 6S for 3 weeks now, and haven't seen another one on the road yet! Is there anyone out there?!?

aromas

Actually I was saying I prefer handling over gobs of power. If the SE handled like the 6 then my decision would have been alot harder. I don't recall saying the 6 is the end all and be all of cars, it's just suits my driving needs. Great handling with the perfect blend of power. If the 6 had 255 H.P. but inferior handling I probably wouldn't have bought one. I chose the 6s over the 6i because I do like extra power as long as it's doesn't compromise handling and isn't accompanied by the dreaded torque steer. What I'm saying is having 250 H.P. on a FWD family car is kind of pointless. People who buy family cars are not usually concerned about racing at the lights. To tell you the truth the only thing I noticed with acceleration on both cars is the 6 felt more stable and smoother. I know it's a second slower 0-60 but I never noticed (didn't have a stopwatch) just don't know how that affects my daily driving. All I know is both cars were more than adequate spped-wise.

I am driving a Legacy GT until March with 165 H.P. and I actually do have some trouble passing on the highway at times. So a little extra H.P. suits me better as well. To each his own. If you have no problem getting around in your Accord then I'm happy for you.

I am trashing the rear suspension of the Max, a car that expensive should not be saddled with it . Sorry Pat had to get 1 last post in. Now I'll go look for the Max vs. 6 board.

aromas

I'm looking at the 6 brochure right now and a theory popped into my head as to why the 6 isn't selling well.

Does anybody notice that all the commercials and print ads(as well as the brochure) show the 6 with the GFX. If Mazda is looking at buyers in their 30's as their key demographic then showing the boy racer version of their car everywhere isn't gonna do it. If people ask what car I bought I would be somewhat embarassed to show them a picture of one with the GFX. I have wallpaper showing the clean look and am proud to show everybody what car I'm buying.

Most buyers over 30 would be turned off by the GFX as it makes it look like a souped up Civic. First impressions mean alot, I know I was turned off by the look until a saw the clean version at the dealership. People in their 20's tend to go for the GFX and they have less disposable income and would go for a Civic or Protege5 instead.

I just think that Mazda isn't taking advantage of all the great press about the car by making the car look like it should be in the "Fast and the Furious". The Altima sold like hotcakes when it came out because it had a mature look and great reviews and the previous gen sales were horrid much like the 626. I think Mazda missed the boat on this one. Anybody agree or disagree?

dinu01

I think the problem rather is that people are not even shopping Mazda or putting a test drive of a Mazda vehicle on their list when car-shopping.

Boy racer or not, if you can't get people to go into your showroom you can't get sales.

When Mazda will be recognized as a company that builds reliable AND fun to drive cars, then we may expect more Mazdas on the road. Until then, only informed buyers and driving enthusiasts will shop Mazda (as unfortunate as it is). I am also aware this reputation will take at least 5-10 years to build and solidify.

Anyways, back to our regular programming: the fun of the M6.

Dinu

stretchsje

Agreed- I haven't seen a crowded showroom. It's not that the car can't sell itself, it's that the advertising isn't getting the car a chance to.

ghostbuster23

i've seen two MAzda6's today in Montreal. The first, as mentioned above, was an S with the GFX, the second did not have them, and I definitely liked it better. I guess they are moving them here in Canada.

tsnoozer

I'm 46 and love the look of the 6 with the sport package. In fact I wouldn't have considered one without it - it looks too plain in my opinion. It's good to have choices though.

BTW still loving the car - the most fun I've had driving a vehicle in many years. As for sales I live in Palm Harbor FL (the most densely populated county in the state) and have yet to see another 6 on the road. If you see a silver 6s on HWY 19, that's probably me.

tugboat1

I tried to pull the trigger and buy the Mazda 6s, but I couldn't get the car optioned the way I wanted so it's adios. The airbag package was a must, so I was forced to get every option under the sun. I don't think that I could endure my wife making fun of me when she got a load of all the boy racer cladding. The dealer informed me that Mazda is making a base car with the airbag package as the only option. Forget it. Next time around if Mazda sells the car with all the safety and an intermediate level of options, I may be interested.

I ended up buying a 1999 A4 2.8 Quatro with 25K miles for a lot less than a new 6cyl M6. Hopefully, it will depreciate less than the 6 though I realize the upkeep may be substantial.

fowler3

the brochure and TV commercials play up the Sport Package too much. They will lose the middleaged buyers who use to buy 626's and Millennias. They prefer refined and sleek to cute and sporty, which the non-sport models appeal to -- IF they would just take a test drive! Only ONE non-sport-equiped Mazda6 is shown in the brochure.

I much prefer the smooth rounded bottom on the facia (lower front bumper), it looks totally modern and would look sharp on a Corvette. Maybe this is the difference: the Sport Package facia looks similar to an F-16's air intakes, while the regular 6's facia is more like a Lear Jet. The choice is between a road fighter and a road cruiser with sporting instincts.

The side cladding is too clutsey as if it was an after-thought and glued on. It doesn't blend into the rocker panel. Maybe they should have made it higher and part of the doors as well.

As for the Maxima, I have never driven one, it probably is a nice car, but the Max's styling has always looked not exactly right. The interior trim reminded me of the Integra -- the center stack is too skinny, more fitting in a sub-compact. Overall, it looks like a nearly-big car that's missing something -- the proportions are off. Where the 6 is beautifully proportioned, just like the 330i, one of the best looking cars ever.

fowler3

badtranny999

Perhaps user-aromas is correct--the 6's body cladding is a bit over-the-top. (although I personally find it attractive.) But I think people prefer clean lines nowadays, and manufacturers responded. Some cars don't even come with body moldings anymore!!..........it's extremely difficult to release a new model in the winter, during a recession, and before a looming war. Given such circumstances, people go with surer & safer things, with proven track records--passbook accts and bonds over stocks, for example. And Honda/Nissan/Toyota over Mazda, sadly..........and by the way, re: Mazda's TV commercial, it's misleading advertising. It shows a closeup of the red instrumentation, then a caption notes, "$19,050, nicely equipped" or something.....thing is, the red instr. is part of the Sports Package, which CANNOT be obtained at $19,050. To get the Sports Package with the base 6, one is forced to add sundry other options, ballooning the price to well over $23k. (I'm sure there's a disclaimer there, in really tiny print.)

capitano

Mazda wasn't on my list either. I can't remember where I heard about the 6, but without the press I would have probably gone out and gotten an altima this summer when it's time to buy.

aromas

You know what is most asked by friends when I tell them I bought the mazda 6. "Why did you buy a 2 door car?"

That stupid commercial doesn't show the car clearly so to some it does look like a coupe if you didn't know better. There is only 1 picture in the brochure with no GFX but's it BLURRY.(way to go Mazda)

I believe the trunk space is only second to the Camry but nowhere does Mazda bring up the practicality of the 6 in their ads that I have noticed. If you looked at the 6 and an Altima you would think the Alt's would be much bigger when they're actually about the same and the 6 doesn't have lid hinges.

I don't expect Mazda to hit Accord type sales but there's no reason they can't mirror Altima sales if they do their homework and figure who they want buying their cars.

Have yet to see a 6 in Toronto yet, mine's coming March 1 so maybe i'll be the first to break the cherry here.