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Comments
barryso: Everybody has allegiances with cars but what ia a comparison thread supposed to accomplish. Each side trumpeting their cars and backing up with facts. As long as it doesn't get personal what's the harm in it. It could be alot more fun now that the 6 has alot more ammunition! These 2 cars are natural rivals, like 2 boxers: Roy Jones(the 6) vs John Ruiz(Accord).
There have been over 120,000 03 Accords since they were selling right around 30,000 of them a month since at least November last year.
While sales numbers may not figure the BEST car, if the Mazda6 were the superior car that make Mazda owner come over to the Accord forum agitating then more then 2500 people a month would be trying it out. I mean at least a few of the 60,000 people buying Accords and Camrys have to be trying out the Mazda and coming to the conclusion that they will rather take a chance on the drifting or sludging vehicles more than the Mazda. And if they aren't comparing then is that any better for the Mazda? Because that means that no one cares at all about the 6.
The Chevy Cavalier is not best in it's market. The Civic is number one there. And as far as the Caravan. It may be number one but the Ody has a waiting list in some markets and is still selling near MSRP. They are selling them as fast as the factory can build them. The Ody factory is running full tilt boogie. How can post 8737 hurt when not only is Honda is healthy as can be but it is erroneous saying the Cavalier is number one.
What really hurt is when CR said Hyundai has tied Honda for number 2 initial reliability. But Mazda was further down the list than that. But then again so was Lexus.
Theres not enough ammunition in the world to help the underdog Mazda6 overcome the Accord. It has to catch the Sonata first.
Barryso great post.
anyways, since you guys seem to be more knowledgeable than the people in the forum who own the car i have. maybe you can help me?
I was thinking about changing my 15" tires to either 16" or 17" wheels with alloys because they look nicer. I especially like the 17" wheels on the mazda 6. How does adding bigger tires affect the ride?? Also, does it cost a lot to installthe wheels anad rims. thanks, any suggestions or opinions would be great!
Hey I think you insulted your own car. Thanx it saved me the trouble of doing it.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that most Mazda people on this board don't care that the M6 will never catch that Accord in sales. Quite the opposite, we'd rather it not. Exclusivity maybe or whatever. I think its mostly you, G, that associates sales numbers with superiority and thinks the 6 catching the Accord in sales is something Mazda is trying to do. I'm not saying that making money is a bad thing. But I'd say most of the M6 fans take the car, or better yet, both cars (M6 and Accord) *on its own merits* rather than sales figures. I only care that Mazda makes enough money to reach their goals so they can keep on making cool cars and not appliances.
Post #8740 hits the nail squarely on the head.
As for people staying with their safe Camrys and Accords and not purchasing the 6, what incentive is there to change from the known to the unknown especially considering the bias that most people have with those two brands? Not much none considering that the 6 offers things that most Camcord buyers care nothing about - handling, sport, reduced size, and heaven forbid somewhat radical styling both inside and out(relatively speaking).
Speaking for myself, I am biased towards Mazda and Toyota. Honda or any maker would have to first and foremost 1) produce something that appeals to me, which Honda specifically rarely if ever does(the Accord hatches were cool though), 2) and/or offer it cheaper since I could just get what I know very easily. That is not to say I would never buy outside my brand biases, that would be dumb. Its just much easier to stay with what you know, which is probably why you've had more Hondas than any other car G.
Also, its impossible to say that either car is "better" than the other. It all depends on the individual and what you want. But it turns out lots more people want the Accord.
(Hint: stop talking about the Accord on the 6 board and the 6 on the Accord board, its really a compliment! heh)
Whoever said something about making the Accord owners acknowledge that the 6 is better than the Accord pretty much exemplifies the problem with the comparison.
Frankly, it is ridiculous for 6 proponents to try to "beat" Accord proponents into submission and it is just as ridiculous for Accord proponents to try that as well.
You like what you like. You are absolutely and unequivocally entitled to like what you like, regardless of what any other person thinks, feels and believes.
When you try SO hard to make others change their minds, all you are doing is displaying your own insecurities.
If you feel good about what you like, chose, bought why in the WORLD to do you have to spend so much energy beating others up about it?
If you don't feel good about what you like, chose, bought, beating up every person in the world isn't going to make you feel better.
Enough is enough.
I have shut down how many 6 vs. Accord discussions because some of you cannot or will not be adults about the comparison? I think it has been three. Maybe more.
Knock it off in here. This is not a comparison discussion, period.
What are we chopped liver?!!
I have pictures of a 6i in Sepang Green Metallic if anyone wants to see them. I don't have a web site so send me an email. Check my profile for address.
It's a nicely loaded 6i AT with Premium Package, Comfort Package, Moonroof, Beige Leather, wheellocks etc. MSRP $22,480, sale price $21,218.
fowler3
"Hint: stop talking about the Accord on the 6 board and the 6 on the Accord board, its really a compliment! heh)"
No one talks about the 6 in the Accord forums except when Mazda6 owners come over there. What's funny is how often the Accord is brought up over here by Mazda6 owners. Accord owners, along with the the rest of the nation, are oblivious to the existence of the Mazda6.
What do you like better than you thought from the original test drive?
What don't you like that seemed ok on the test drive?
How is the engine changing after a few thousand miles?
Would you pick a different engine or package if you were makeing the decision now?
(For the Monty Python fans)
What is your favorite color?
Also is there any reason I shouldn't put in STP fuel injector cleaner into the gas tank a few times a year. Just want to make sure.
This is NOT actual data!!!
I tested the accord a few times.
Vibrating steering wheel while idle, with 4 cylinder. 6 Cylinder steering pulling to the right. Bad egg smell. Boring interior.
The 6 wipes away the competition with its build quality, superior interior and exterior and superior handling.
That is why I am waiting for the delivery of my silver 6s with GFX.
Damn it I have been waiting for ever now.
6 weeks!!
Jason.
Caveat: This is advice I learned a long time ago, maybe engines are better designed now with closer tolerances, yada, yada, yada but I did this with my '92 Ford Escort and have 255k on it now. No engine problems. None. (Well, OK the altenator died.)
Also, any reputable gasoline has cleaning additives already in it. so I'm not sure of the value of adding STP fuel injector cleaners.
Next topic, sales do matter: The problem with sales is that you want Mazda to sell a few cars, they need to make money to better support their products including YOUR car. I suspect part of Mazda's sales problems is a chicken and the egg thing: (or herd mentality) people need to see others driving the car to feel more confortable about it. I almost don't mean this as a joke: Mazda should give people on this board a hefty discount to get the car out there and be seen. I don't think I am exagerating that if I had one, and drove it to work on 95 outside of DC I would generate 10 new sales leads.
jht
1) 2002 Good Design Award (G mark) (Japan) Oct.1
2)'02-'03 Japan Car of the Year: 10 Best (Japan) Nov.1
3)Hall of Fame: Excellent Developer Award - Japan Nov.6
4)2003 RJC Car of the Year - Japan Nov.20
5) Japan Car Design Award: Golden Marker Trophy (commercial production) - Japan
6)Car & Driver: The 2003 10 Best U.S.A Dec.11
7)Fleet World Magazine: Best Newcomer Award U.K Jun.2
8)Britain's Auto 1: Car of The Year U.K Dec.17
9) Great Austrian Automobile Award Austria Oct.7
10) New Car of the Year Scotland Oct.26
11)Semperit Irish Car of the Year - Ireland Nov.22
12)Car of 2003 in Czech Republic - Czech Republic Nov.11
13)Family Car of the Year Sweden Nov.11
14) European Car of the Year: 2nd place(highest placed Japanese car) Europe Nov.19
15)Auto Blic magazine: Croatian Auto 1. Croatia Dec.11
16)Best Car in Lithuania in 2003 Lithuania Dec.16
17)Le Moniteur Automobile: Family Car of the Year - Belgium Dec.19
18)National Business Review (weekly newspaper): Car of the year New Zealand Oct.18
19) New Zealand Company Vehicle and Executive Car Magazine: Business Car of the Year - New Zealand Dec.9
20)Australia's Best Car Awards: Best Mid-Size Car Over $25,000 Australia Nov.6
21)The Straits Times: Best Medium Family Sedan/Hatchback Singapore Oct.19
22)Auto magazine: Car of The Year (chosen by readers) Israel
23)Auto magazine: Best Premium Compact Israel
24) Scottish car of the year award 2002
25) What Car- Best Estate Car 2003 - U.K.
The total is 35 global awards. I can't find 10 of them.
Right you are.
>>>So the issue is not how long the oil will last, but getting rid of this highly abrasive material. So the first couple thousand miles I would change the oil more frequently not less. Once you've driven the car for a while (10k?) you can be a little more lax about changing it.<<<
Wrong you are here.
The reason is that the microscopic grooves that are bieng formed are part of the scientific procedure of breaking the engine in. The microscopic grooves will retain oil and will not let the cylinder walls get bone dry. So when you start up our car, there will still be oil on the cylinder walls, in effect reducing the scraping that the engine walls will go through otherwise.
And no I am not shooting off my mouth or telling you thing that I "overheard" some roadside mechanic tell me.
I am a Mech. Engg and spent over 10 years in Design and manufacturing Engine parts, including cylinder, cylinder blocks, crankshaft, con. rods, and Bearing.
So next time listen to the Euro specs. for the VW or BMW or Audi. They will warn you to NOT change your first engine oil prematurely viz. before the time interval that is recommended in the owners manual.
And you also imply (my experience not withstanding) that it would hurt the engine if you changed the oil too often. I could see it being a waste of oil, but why would that hurt the engine? Finally, you need to answer Aroma's question: what if you let it go longer (with syn. oil) not a problem?
Thanks
jht
The filter should trap the particles anyway, shouldn't it?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Make that "problems reported on Edmunds with Accords sold than M6s". The posts on this forum are not a random sample, so may or may not be representative of the total population. But, your point is well taken anyway.
aromas: I think you'll be fine as long as your mileage is within the oil change intervals. Because certain predictable amounts of friction are required for proper "break-in" of piston and piston rings. Synthetic engine oils are usually not recommended for use for at least after 5,000 miles of service.
jhtlag is correct in that cleaning additives are already in most gas/petro. Stay away from most fuel additives though, because they can damage your fuel system/lines. Mazda does not recommend fuel system additives or cleaning agents other than those specified by them.
One more question I know mazda states break-in is at 1K but when is the engine completely broken in where you no longer have to baby it(and feel comfortable letting your friends test your new toy). I hope I didn't open a whole new can of worms on this one.
Questions:
1) Price? (old post guessed $325 over the counter)
2) Capacity? (probably single-disc, just checking)
3) Compatibility? (will it work with both the Bose as well as the stock stereo)
Oh, yeah, does anyone have pictures of the sports grille? It's one of the few items not illustrated in the accessories PDF.
Thanks in advance!
I think the only difference in cost between getting it from the factory and from your dealer, though, will be in whatever labor your dealer might charge to install it.
I'm almost certain it's single-disc (I'm sure they'd advertise if it were 5-disc). As to whether it works with the Bose package? Unknown. I didn't get the Bose because this info wasn't available. So I figure I'll add an amp and better speakers behind the factory MP3, depending on how the sound is with the stock speakers.
(I've had my player on order since I got my 6s; as soon as it comes in I'm having it installed, so I can report more then.)
The Cam-cord-ima is selling tens of thousands per month? Good for them. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that all three have been around for years as opposed to months.
Sales & business are cyclical. Both in product introduction & yearly cycles. To ignore that fact is to plead ignorance. I've made my living in sales for over 10 years. P!ss and moan all you want about "Mazda being 60% behind on quota." That assumes a flat sales curve month-to-month, which is utterly preposterous. It NEVER happens that way, I don't care what business you're in.
The only number I care about, both personally and in relation to the 6, is the one at the end of the year. That's when the fat lady sings and you really know how you did. Prior to that it's all speculation and conjecture.
and post 8779 makes the most valid point. The filter is going to trap the metal particles. What is the point in changing the oil too quick?
Will that reduce the incedence of the metal particles in the oil? No. The metal particles will continue to appear in the oil(and subsquently trapped by the filter) till the piston rings have not taken a seat i.e. broken in.
I see no justification in going for a oil change right after 1000 miles. the conventional 3500 to 5000 miles should work allright.
And if the oil particles were causing the filter to clog up, you would lose pressure and the OIL light wouldd come up.
So relax and let the design engineers do their job. I would recommend that u simply follow their instructions , that is, if you believe in them.
If you dont, u are free to make ur own rules and live by it.
Of course, even if you knew nothing, common sense should tell you to do whatever the manual told you to do, which, regardless of what I wrote above I would do.
Chikoo, just read your message after I posted mine. I think the above explains a lot to me and fits in with what you said. Again, some sort of additive to the original wear-in oil scours?, prepares?, protects?, polishes? - does something to the surface in a deliberate way to make it last longer. I'd be interested in knowing what happens, but I think I have the general picture. I probably need to understand how the oil gets around the galleys too. I am suspecting that oil flow is more efficiently cleaned then it used to be. And why are you surprised that I have the right questions? You can't tell everything by looks, you know ;^)
Ruefus buddy, I agree with you; I was out this Saturday at a Mazda dealership and it looked like they had plenty of interest (probably because it was the first warm weekend w/o snow this year) so I don't doubt that sales will be greatly improved soon, perhaps March, definitely April. Still they need to sell cars, I think all of these odd package combinations and the hatchbacks and station wagons coming later rather than sooner are due to strategic (cash flow) constraints. You need to sell cars and make money to plan new products. I bet if they were selling 10k s a month right now, the hatchback release would be moved up several months. But again, you're right, sometimes things don't go according to plan, Mazda just needs to be patient.
jht
Well I do have come across something called "micro-abrasives" included in the oil during my mech engg life, and we used it to polish, hone and "make gooves" on cylinder walls as the last stage of the manufacturing process. But that was us. We did not make mass production engines for automobiles. We were a speciality non-automobile workshop.
>>>I am suspecting that oil flow is more efficiently cleaned then it used to be.<<<
It sure is!!! That is why the new Mazda RX-8 has the new Renesis engine with side ports, which incidentally was the original design but never succeeded due to "poor oil formulations" in the days of the RX-7.
>>>And why are you surprised that I have the right questions?<<<
No I am surprised that u have the right question and u were unable to read the answers contained within your own questions.
Anyway, I am glad that this discussion went in such a constructive direction.
I suspect that once things start to improve the 6 will meet all it's sales goals and maybe even more....certain versions are already exceeding goals
I'm almost ready to pull the trigger a a 6. If they start offering discounts I won't be able to resist any longer.
BTW, I see that Honda if offering a $239 lease on the Accord LX-AT. This is just about the same as Mazda's offer on the 6i-AT, isn't it?
You aren't coming anywhere near a G35 for much less than MSRP. Especially the coupe. Check out the forum.
Ody is in it's last year and it's just being discounted in some areas. I'll bet it's not one with NAV. Same with the MDX. A whole 2 on the lot WOW.
Wonder how many MPV's are on the lot. Mazda has sold only 4000 this year. Are they discounting? They have been around a few years.
Since we are bringing up other models...
The Element has sold 5000 in it's third month in this terrible economy.
" I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that all three have been around for years as opposed to months."
Mazda has been building family sedans for years also. This is just an update of the 626.
Isn't production at a 6-8 week time frame? I left him a message on Friday to give me the VIN # so at least I can track it myself (hopefully).
I have heard that good things come to those who wait but ...
Reinvention from the last gen is a better word.
Also, the 626 has nothing in common with the likes and the legacy of the Accord, Camry or Altima. It was a distant also ran at introduction. By comparison to the class, it was a horrible car.
That - and it never sold in the quantities or received the good notoriety the others have seen. It isn't an apples to apples comparison at all.