Mazda6 Sedan

wgr

This seems to me to be too high. You can get a 6 cyl top of the line Accord for that or less. This could mean I look much more seriously at the 4 cyl; as well as seriously considering the Altima 4 cyl.

On the other hand, once the pent-up demand subsides, actual prices can become more reasonable.

audia8q

I don't know why Mazda hanst turned on the maz6 pricing on the web page, the timeline shows that 10/28 was the official pricing date..

We had 20 invoices show up today....Mazda also informed us that everything is still close to schedule. Also no launch problems found so far!!!! Any delays will be due to making sure the launch is 100%.

The MSRP on the mz6S with sport shift tranny, side airbags/curtains, leather, bose audio, comfort pkg, moonroof, sport pkg, wheel locks, CA emissions....$26,375. This number is only a few dollars different than the initial pricing...

Remember everyone, we have nothing to fear from Honda or anyone else for that matter. Our car and prices represent a great deal of value and something Honda lacks...design and fun to drive.. I find the panic about not being less than the honda funny.

mazda6s

Hmmm, I guess I wouldn't make to many decisions based on "deliberately vague" responses about prices of "nicely equipped" cars.

newcar31

when are they going to be at the dealerships? Are dealerships closer to Flat Rock going to get them a little sooner? Specifically, Morries Mazda in Minneapolis? My Dad is itching to get this car and I can't wait either because I want a chance to drive it. Can you order one yet?

audia8q

The bulk of the initial shipments will begin around nov 15. A few have already left the factory. who gets them first depends on the order in which they are built and how get on the trains...first on the train is last off the train and this can delay arrival. I have one car stuck at a railyard near Albany, NY and due to union rules we can not go pick up the car.

Yes, you can order them now.

newcar31

that Morries Mazda may have one right now or will be getting one very soon?

vocus

I wanna test drive this car when it arrives too, just to put my curiousity at bay.

tboner

Comparing the weights of the V6 and the I4 engines.

Now looking at a similar "problem" with the Contour's 4 and 6's the V6 really didn't weight more than the 4. Why, the 2.0L 4 was an iron block, aluminum head engine, while the V6 was a sleeved aluminum block with aluminum head. I don't think the weight difference was even 50#. On a 3000# car, that isn't much of a difference.

I dunno about the 2.3L I4, but if it is similar, iron block, aluminum head, I think the weight difference will also be small.

Remember, the 2.5L Duratec and the 3.0L Duratec are essentially the same block, bored out a bit more. The pistons in the 3L will weigh a bit more than those on the 2.5L.

So, bottom line, I'm not so sure the 3L V6 will be all that much heavier than th 4cyl mill.

FWIW,

TB

stretchsje

Has the E-type rear suspension had any wear problems from being nearer to the road (and the debrit that gets kicked up)?

Mazda seems to have low financing (or a rebate) on all its models until 12/2, even 2003's. Other than from an advertising standpoint of being able to say "on every model in stock" a la GM, is there any reason this would be extended to the 6?

Since Mazda has the capacity to build a ton of these things (and wants to), is there any reason why the selling price shouldn't quickly shift down from MSRP?

I know the latter question has been asked before, but I need more reassurance that running out to buy one now is not the smart thing to do!

I no longer like the looks of the hatchback- it's not nearly as "sedan looking" as I thought, so I'm not going to wait. Check out some side profiles at http://www.goonish.com/atenza/read.php?TID=409

stretchsje

The 4cyl is almost all aluminum. The difference between it and the 6cyl is about 200lbs.

ashutoshsm

The new 4 cluinder engine in the Mazda 6i is an all-Aluminium affair, IIRC from the plethora of linked reviews. So it is reasonably lighter. Not to mention the ABS and TCS systems standard in the 6s will increase its weight further
But considering I'd want those anyway, that's moot.

dsm6

The I4 is aluminum with iron sleeves cast into the block. Here are the weights:

engine (MT,AT - weight in pounds)
I4 (3042,3091)
V6 (3243,3311)

For more specs, and a detailed listing of available options, go to mazdausa.com, click on the Mazda6, choose the specs page, and download the printable version (pdf version).

mazdafun

I was thinking wagon or hatchback (I want to be able to put bulky items in the cargo area sometimes). I was leaning towards wagon myself, but the hatch is nicer-looking. I'll have to check out the cargo volume when it becomes available.

tboner

I couldn't find any information about the specs of the aluminum engine (other than 2.3L DOHC)

Now if the MazdaSpeed Mazda6 arrives...

TB
Needs new car in Spring 2004

chikoo

can u elaborate?

newcar31

Stay away from the Mazda6! You might like it so much that you won't be able to keep yourself from trading in your Jetta.

chikoo

newcar31....u hit the nail on the head!!!

vocus

And it almost took you a whole hour to come back with that comment.

That's one problem I will not have to worry about. I don't want a Mazda with a Ford engine, not in its first year of production anyway. Thanks, but no thanks.

newcar31

How could a Mazda with a Ford engine be any worse than a VW? VW doesn't have first year issues, they have entire model run issues.

ashutoshsm

... if you're dead set on not getting a Ford engine, the all-mazda 4-cylinder will be nearly as good as the 1.8T in the Jetta, and much less loud as well. In a car that weights the same or less than the VDub!

dudleyr

My neighbor sued Ford because the engine in her Taurus was so bad - she won the cost of a rebuild. I do think the 2.3 will be better (hard to be much worse) than that old vulcan 3.0. I had a Taurus with the same engine that constantly leaked coolant (always had that burning coolant smell) never did get it fixed just filled and drove until the tranny melted at 127k miles. The engine still ran fine then aside from the leak.

First year reliability does concern me somewhat especially given the poor initial reliability of the Focus (which is getting better). In fact if the Focus was as reliable as the Escort used to be (very good according to Consumer Reports) I would probably take a Focus wagon over the 6. It has just as much room, gets better gas mileage, and you can tailor the options pretty much any way you want the car. 5 speed with stability control, leather, traction control, ABS, no sunroof, tilt and teloscoping wheel no problem they are all individually selectable items (except the wheel). Don't know how the Focus compares to the 6 as I have not driven a 6, but it is in a class above the 03 Accord and Camry in terms of handling.

stretchsje

"what is wrong in the looks of the Hatch?"

Absolutely nothing! Just personal preference, but more bulbous than I remembered. That's a good thing also- more room inside.

vocus

The 2.3 engine might be nearly as good, but nowhere as fast as the 1.8T is. Also, the 1.8T comes with traction control standard, where it's a costly option on the 6.

vocus

I would much rather have a rattle or two than the accelerator sticking to the floor, which is what 2 of the recalls on the Focus involved, and one on the Tribscape.

I am happy with what I have anyway, so this conversation has no point.

boxfan

Is the Focus reliability getting better? It still looks terrible from Consumer Reports, and I don't know another source of reliability info. I guess there haven't been recalls lately? I would be very interested in the ZX5 (or the new 5-door SVT!) if the reliability weren't so bad. The other advantage of the 6 for me is the wider back seat--it should actually seat 3, if Mazda's measurements are real. Even if the reliability is improving, I don't think a Focus could possibly last as long as a Mazda, if you're thinking of keeping the car for 1 or 200K. I have a 12 year old Toyota with 100K, and I only want to get rid of it because it's so boring, not because there's anything wrong with it. If you buy a new car every five years, then there probably won't be much difference between a Focus and a 6.

dudleyr

I keep cars for a long time too (1990 Integra with 147k - bought new) so reliability (actually durability) is important. The Focus was much worse than average, and I think it is now only worse than average, or at least has fewer black marks (don't have the book in front of me) in Consumers Reports. The Escort was better than average (half red circle) so I keep hoping the Focus will eventually get there, and hopefully the 6 will start there.

One thing to remember is that a modern car that is only average in reliability would probably be much better than average if compared to a new car of 15 years ago or so, as all cars are getting better.

yugoboy

I would take the 3 litre offering from ford over any vw variations!!! I dont even want to get into vw, if people are concerned about the 3 litre you can also go with the 2.3 litre instead, which i understand is totally mazda engineered!!!

newcar31

I hear ya. Hearing reliability concerns from a VW owner is funny.

P.S.

Paul, a rattle or two is the least of your concerns with a VW Jetta. What ever happened to "waiting for your windows to fall into the doors"? Or what about a certain percentage of Jettas that are delivered with broken or missing dash clips? At least Ford would have issued a recall for something like that.....

vocus

The dash clips caused the rattle. The window regs are covered for all years of VWs, free of charge. Those are the only real problems with VWs. And they are a helluva lot safer than many small cars on the road. When I slam the door in the Jetta, it doesn't feel like it's gonna break in half like the Protege's did.

dinu01

"When I slam the door in the Jetta, it doesn't feel like it's gonna break in half like the Protege's did."

What do you mean? <My 2001 PRO Es manufatured in 07/02 (July 2002) straight from the door sticker makes a solid sound when I close the door. The trunk is another sound though...

The 6 is coming in "late January" from the old "January" as per my Mazda dealer as of today 10/29/02. So I guess they expect them later...

Dinu

newcar31

Why doesn't VW just recall the window clips? Who in the hell wants to WAIT for the windows to fall in the door, especially in MN? That is THE most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. We are going to have to agree to disagree on the Protege's doors. Mine shut with the typical Japanese solid "THWUMP". The Jettas I've been in creak from the hinges when you shut or open the door and it isn't because they need grease. I would much rather take my chances with a Ford / mostly Mazda product than a VW product.

boxfan

Funny coincidence, I work with a current Jetta owner and a former Jetta owner; just today we were talking about car reliability and they both said they'd never buy a VW again. One comment was, "When I went to trade my Jetta in, the first question was 'Do the windows all work?'" (They didn't.)

It's true that they're safer than other small cars, including the Protege.

The more relevant comparison for this discussion would be the Passat, wouldn't it? That seems to be the most reliable model VW has put out recently. I see mixed reviews about how sporty the driving is in the Passat. Any opinions?

vocus

I have driven 2 Passats (one V6, one 1.8T), and they seem to drive like a larger Jetta to me. The 1.8T isn't as powerful though (the "old" 150hp version) as the Jetta's does. Then again, my Jetta is the 180hp one and not the 150hp one, and I never drove a 150hp Jetta. Anyway, the Passat is a pretty nice ride I think. I think their front seats are very uncomfortable though.

I still wanna test drive the 6 when it comes out, to see how it stacks up to the competition.

The window thing is inconvenient for alot of owners. I have never experieced that problem (yet), but we shall see I guess. But if you know the signs of the regulators going, you can have them checked by the dealer and replaced free of charge.

I work with 2 people who have "nightmare" Jettas. I guess they just got bad ones. I had problems with rattles when the car was first new, but they were solved about 10K miles ago.

boxfan

dudleyr, that's a good point that cars are generally more reliable now. But most people I've talked to who had cars last 150K+ miles had Hondas (or Acuras), Toyotas, Mazdas and Subarus. Volvo owners often keep their cars forever, but I think recently they've been getting worse (V70, S80). I hear mixed reports about Tauruses (Tauri?), some seem reliable but I don't know if they last as long as Accords and Camrys

rworrell

newcar, can you post here when the 6's arrive at Morries? I'm also dying to drive one of these beasties (well, both of them, each with a manual tranny).

Thanks!

cb70

I want a wagon but figure I can guesstimate the price with a sedan set of figures!

glideslopes

I work with a person who has a 94 Taurus. It has 165,000 on the original engine and transmission. It still runs very well. Nothing but scheduled maintence and a water pump at 140,000.

Mark.

dinu01

at the proper intervals, today's good cars (I tend to believe they're mainly imports) should last a good 130.000+ miles. But since most don't keep their cars this long, they neglect maintenance, hence the cars last less that they ideally could.

Dinu

johnclineii

http://www.suntimes.com/output/auto/car-news-car28.html

cb70

Too much is made of the import/domestic issue. The reasons most cars fall into disrepair are the owners themselves. This may be a generalization but import owners are fanatical about keeping their vehicles in tip top shape while domestics are much more likely to run them into the ground. This has been my experience after 14 years being employed as an auto mechanic. Oh yeah, I own a 89 Cavalier with 193,000 miles and a 95 Beretta with 163,000 miles. Not exactly the highest rated vehicles yet with normal maintenance they can be expected to last.

vcjumper

If I have a car that has any repairs that cost over $350 before it hits 75,000 Miles (excluding tires, regular preventative maintenance), I'm not keeping it any longer than that. I've had 2 domestics and 1 import and none have done that to me (I have gotten rid of them at ~110,000 miles, up to 6 years old).

What really bugs me is dealers that practically try to convince you your warranty is void if you don't do the big dollar maintenance packages at their specified intervals. Oil change only please! I'll figure out when the other stuff needs doing.

mazda6s

I drove a 86 Mazda 626 for 244,000 miles. I knew it was time to get rid of it when I had a $800 brake job.

yugoboy

Because we are currently on topic, this might be useful to all you vw owner's, knowing how reliable your vdubs are an all!!!!

http://www.myvwlemon.com/

hopefully the mazda6 will not need to have a similar website!!! Just poking good fun!!!!

mdaffron

Why all the yacking about Proteges vs. Jettas here?

Meade

mazdafun

Even with proper maintenance, a bad vehicle will fail you. They happen to all makes and models. What differs is the percentage of a particular make and model that have problems. And the execution of design and construction which dictate this are particular to each make and model.

So, will shopping a statistically reliable vehicle (or make) prevent me from getting a bad car or shopping a statistically unreliable vehicle mean I'll get a junker? Not necessarily, but the odds are better.

mazda6s

I know any minute now SOMEBODY is going to find some photos or official pricing for the Mazda6 and we'll able to stop wasting time and bandwidth taking about Proteges and VWs (or how many miles I got out of my 626).

vocus

So where are the prices? I thought they were suppose to be released yesterday? I am curious to see how much these things cost.

And I kinda started the whole VW thing, as usual. I said I wouldn't trust a Ford in its first year, due to the release of the Focus/Tribscape. Then one of those Protege owners said something smart about me wondering about reliability and being a VW owner.

dudleyr

FWIW according to Consumer Reports (the bible on reliability) Volkswagens are about average overall for reliability (the beetle is below, but the 4 cyl Passat is above) Mazdas are a little more reliable (about the same as the Passat) but not quite at Honda and Toyota Levels. My father has a 2000 Passat w/ 60,000 miles and has not put a penny into repairs. Original clutch and brakes - he did replace the tires, but they are a wear item. But individual cases don't determine the reliability of a car, you have to include the good and the bad.

Having said that, I will buy any car that is at least average. In fact Consumer Reports will reccomend any car that is average. They will not reccomend one that is below average. IE - the Focus is one of their top scoring cars, but they don't reccomend it because it has well below average reliability .

I suspect the 6 will be about average, and will probably improve to above average (but not well above average) just about like the 626.

newcar31

...not be possible for the Mazda6 to have ratings similiar to the Protege which is considered much better than average and actually ranked better than the Civic?

stretchsje

Since the 626 has been plagued with Ford's crappy 60,000 mile automatic transmission since 1994, I'm sure it too would have been well above average in reliability had Mazda not needed to cut costs. With the "6" needing to be a comeback sedan, I doubt such shortcuts will be taken. I see absolutely no reason why the "6" shouldn't be "well above average", although, of course, we have no way to predict this for sure.

I just hope ford parts are being integrated into accessories such as A/C. Ya never know...