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Comments
I think Mazda NA HQ is smoking the stuff available legally in California.
Mazda6 has nothing that can compare to the Accord / Camry buyer and at(de)tract him away.
What Mazda6 claims is Sportiness. It also claim it Realizes that it is catering to a niche market. then why offer options for the general market? Why not keep the niche market happy?
This way, Mazda6 is like the dog who who belongs nowhere
Come up with a plan that your dealership will order the Canadian Madza6 and sell it in USA.
Do you honestly think that's changed just because YOU can't get the car with exactly the set of options you'd like?
I still get the sense that some of you here think the Mazda 6 will compete head to head with Honda and Toyota in terms of overall sales.
IT WON'T.
And I say that as the son of a dealer principle. My father runs the 2nd highest volume Mazda store in Western Canada. He does a very good business, but even with his numbers we sold about a dozen 626's LAST YEAR. One a month!!
If we do 10 Mazda6's a month, we will be thrilled. This isn't our bread and butter car in Canada - the Protege is. If we're retailing 10 Mazda 6's a month, I would expect that 1 of those will be a manual transmission model (maybe two in an odd month).
So our expectations (and Mazda's) for this car are not out of this world. We just want to get back in the game in the mid-size segment. This car allows us to do that. But we will still be a niche player compared to Honda and Toyota.
If the car is a runaway (and I mean beyond everyone's expectations) hit, we might do Nissan Altima numbers - but we will NEVER challenge Honda and Toyota. And we won't steal many - if any - of their buyers.
We will poach from Nissan, from Volkswagon and from Subaru. In other words, from people who are already looking for something off the beaten path.
We may keep a few folks from spending extra dollars on a BMW or a Audi. We'll see.
So what is the niche for the 6, exactly? Do you really think the typical Camry LE or Accord LX buyer would pay $1000-2000 more for a Mazda 6i with ABS because it's the "best looking" or "most dynamic" car in it's class, even thought it's smaller inside?
Customers DO have a choice. I submit many of them who didn't buy a 626 in the past did so because they could not get ABS without paying more money than they had or wanted to pay, or without getting something they could not live with (leather or a sunroof).
It is NOT just the manuals that have this problem in the US. A four cylinder automatic will cost you $1650 to add ABS. No moonroof or leather necessary, but $1650.
At the end of the year, when US dealers have sold fewer 6's than they otherwise would have, most are going to blame the stupid customer yet again.
We have already seen this here. Dealers and dealer's sons do not see the problem. Customers and potential customers keep pointing it out only to be told they are whiners.
Time will tell.
But $1650 or $4950 for ABS on a four cylinder automobile is going to make it unaffordable for many, and make other choices more attractive.
And Mazda has already said the 6 cylinder 6 is aimed at a very small segment of the market. It is the four that is the bread and butter.
Canada made smart choices. US Mazda is up to something. Since the 6 isn't available in Canada for a couple more months, perhaps the US choices will change about the same time they start making the Canadian market ones. Makes sense to me...and I hope it is true.
"Since the 6 isn't available in Canada for a couple more months, perhaps the US choices will change about the same time they start making the Canadian market ones."
Hmm... Not bad reasoning.
Dinu
Now--you mentioned that maybe the 6 will capture a few Audi buyers. I am that potential Audi buyer. But I'd like to wait for the hatch.
Unlike most of the posters, I'd like a car that handles really well (which my old Accord did not) but is comfortable and reasonably quiet (which isn't the case with sport suspensions). Because I do pretty much only city driving, I'd like an auotmatic. I'm not a wuss, I just don't need the aggravation.
Do you think the current marketing will be reversed for the hatch? That is, will it be mostly manual? Will Mazda figure that hatch buyers want an especiallly sporty car, and offer it only in the sport form? What's the case with the Protege5?
At this point I see lots of discounts, incentives and 0% financing. Also, I don't put a lot of faith in the opinions of a Mazda dealer. For years I have been hearing how people will be fighting to pay MSRP for Mazda vehicles once word gets about about them. People can't "fall in love" with the handling if they never set foot in the dealership to drive one.
When you build up this much pre-launch excitement (much more) compared to most new car launches, you get a large group of people who are acting as unofficial ambassadors to a concept, a company, and a car. Such as it is for Mazda.
I have been impressed in recent months at the energy and enthusiasm of the Mazda buyer, from the Protege fans to the excited 6 potential buyers.
Now, we finally get the last words on NA packaging, and a great sigh is felt throughout. Not a sigh of relief, but a sigh of resignation. A chance was had, to offer a car that differentiated itself from the market the way BMW does in the entry-luxury sedan market. We have the makings of a nice-handling, good looking car with plenty of features. The problems? Well, to unlock some of your favorites, you must have a degree in accounting, because you will be running around with 15 layers of required options before you arrive at the green light to add the option you wanted. Worst of all, the option isn't something like Halogen lights or a built-in subwoofer/Satelite Receiver stereo upgrade, it is ABS brakes - an important safety feature.
To bury ABS behind a wall of luxury options is a mistake. It forces the consumer to consider options they normally wouldn't buy, or even worse, it forces those same consumers to consider other manufacturer's vehicles when what they want is yours.
Consider that a VW Jetta 1.8T GLS prices at $20,440 with a manual, comes in cloth, with a full-sized spare, alloy wheels, 4-wheel disc brakes, ABS, and a few other thoughtful options. Consider that the Jetta has a wagon offering, and you have a direct competitor that is under-priced next to a similar equipped 6.
Nissan Altima makes a compelling choice.
For a few bucks more, an AWD Subaru Legacy, although not as sexy, makes a nice choice in the snow belts...and it's 165 hp engine isn't a terrible powerplant.
Suddenly, the well-informed, and choice-conscious consumer has several similar and maybe better choices than the 6, and they haven't even considered a Camry or and Accord...both of which are sure to offer superior resale value and a higher potential reliability. Lots of places for a consumer to fall through the cracks...especially for the enthusiast who goes from fan to disenfranchised buyer.
Sad to see, but looks like Mazda NA is gonna muck this one up a bit. Makes the Elantra/Sonata combos look a little more appealing again.
What happens in 2004 if BMW releases the 1-series into NA, with decent I-4 power and a price to compete with Jettas and I-4 Passats? Or when Audi ships in its A3 in hatch form at a price thousands less than the A4 (putting it in the $23/24k range at base).
It is a great buyers market, lots of very good cars that overlap and feed on each other. The 6 was a compelling entry, and still is for me, as ABS is not a deal breaker, and I intend to buy a slushbox for my next daily driver...but if I was shopping manuals and option packages...several good, reliable makers out there have great options to make a $24k 6i a joke. A $20,440 Jetta GLS being among them.
From ur choice of words, i was wondering whether ur AudiA8q with w new ID. Well ur not.
Harelyquin....nice flow of thoughts u got there.
Mazda NA.....u messed up ur only chance.
And the way to avoid frequent shifts and consequesnt burn down was to increase the times the gear holds in a single gear ie. no more quick shifts like the Protege.
I'm going to wait and see, with my fingers crossed that things do work out better in terms of packages.
Also, given that they (Mazda) have way more access to research and market indicators than us select few enthusiasts, they probably (hopefully!) know something we don't. Doesn't change the fact that enthusiasts will continue to be disappointed, but Mazda may yet survive this
"Mazda6 has nothing that can compare to the
Accord / Camry buyer and at(de)tract him away."
- What are you guys talking about??? This is exactly the type of car I would consider. ~$25K for a 6-cylinder 5-speed that handles well? If the Mazda6 was out, and had decent acceleration numbers (under 7secs.), I would have seriously considered it. The car would have been a perfect compromise between the two I was debating on - a WRX and a Maxima SE.
Speaking of the BOSE: what an over-rated stereo! I'd rather have the regular system or nothing at all (if it decreases the overall price of the car), so I can go $500-700 CAD on the aftermarket and get something decent, instead of paying for a BOSE.
Dinu
"The 2003 MAZDA6 i and s, as well as every 2003 vehicle in Mazda's lineup, are backed by the company's new 4-year/50,000-mile warranty that covers every part on the vehicle except those subject to normal wear. Also included in the warranty are 24-hour roadside assistance, use of a loaner car and protection against corrosion for five years regardless of mileage."
Note the free loaner cars.....pretty cool.
Mazda Announces Pricing for Eagerly Anticipated MAZDA6 Flagship Sedan
Monday November 4, 2:12 pm ET
- Company Also Announces Longer Warranty for All 2003 Models -
IRVINE, Calif., Nov. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Mazda North American Operations (MNAO) today announced that pricing for its all-new 2003 MAZDA6 sports sedan, scheduled to begin arriving in Mazda dealerships in the next few weeks, will start at $18,530.
At the same time, MNAO announced that it was extending its bumper-to-bumper warranty to 4 years/50,000 miles on all 2003 models, including those already sold.
Available in two extremely well-equipped trim levels, the i and the s, the impressive MAZDA6 offers superior driving dynamics, quality craftsmanship as well as eye-catching exterior and interior design in one fun-to-drive package.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/021104/lam097_1.html
example:
option # MR1
Power Moonroof
available on: ALL models
cost: $700
No muss, no fuss, no $4925 in required options to get it like on the Mazda 6i/MT, or $1650 in required options to get it like on the 6i/AT.
I rest my case.
To appeal to the average joe, price is the most effective method...following it with a good reliability record. Reliable? I am sure the 6 will be reliable. But it has to hit the masses before it starts to snowball and make it a success. They have to offer something that others don't(& better) in their pricing scheme.
If what is printed on yahoo is true, I am in!!
(if only they wuold provide power adjustable options on both front seats...ala Accord EXV6)
my wife will throw the car out when she finds that she has to adjust her seat manually while I get power seat!!! not joking.
BTW you can bet that they monitor these boards. A multi billion dollar orginization is not stupid enough to not spend the tiny sum it would take to have someone keep an eye on what the word is on their company and products.
This is the reply I got:
azda's goal is your complete satisfaction. We certainly appreciate hearing from you. You've reached us during weekend hours, so there may
be some delay in our reply. Rest assured your message has been received, and we'll respond as quickly as possible.
Note: Our normal business hours are Monday through Friday 6:00am to 4:00pm PT.
Please understand, this system cannot accept attachments.
Thanks!
Mazda's Customer Assistance E-Business Team
P.S. Have you checked out the all-new Mazda6 sports sedan yet? See it at www.MazdaUSA.com/newMazda6. Then... Drive it. You'll know.
BTW, the point (at least my point) isn't whether or not Mazda will make more money this way - in fact, I bet they will. I bet that their marketing folks have hit the nail right on the head with this packaging business - but I don't really care. What I do care about is how I will spend my money, and I'm not going to waste it just because everyone else is, even if the car is as good as Mazda says. IMO, cars are expensive enough as it is without having to throw away money on things you do want - or perhaps even find offensive. I won't play the game and feed the greed. Your mileage may vary.
I understand they want to limit the number of options and/or packages at first. This minimizes cost and complexity at launch. When they make some money and the plant has more experience making them, I think they'll produce more variations and expand the options list (I hope they let you get the grey cloth interior with red exterior paint in the future too...can't stand looking at beige interiors).
Still, I personally think safety-related equipment like ABS or TCS should be stand-alone options. I personally would take a 6 hatch or wagon 4cyl stock, with ABS. I'm not fond of leather, spoilers, moonroofs, shiny chromed wheels, those tack-on tailpipe garnishes etc.
I saw the first US Mazda6 ad in the new MT issue. It's a side shot of the center console (speaking of which) with a manual transmission stick blurred and captioned (yes, you guessed it) "zoom-zoom".
Remember when Mazda said the US engine would only produce 150hp due to our crappy gas? What happened with that?
Offering "options" creates the false perception that one can get the car with a particular combination of options, and leads to customer dissatisfaction, IMHO.
The tranny that caused most of the grief for 626 owners was the LA4A-EL, which is a version of Ford's CD4E, built at ZF Batavia in Ohio, appearing only in the four-cylinder 626 starting in model year '94. It has never appeared in any Protegé, and won't be in the 6.
You're welcome.
Ford parts are Mazda's achille's heel. Is anyone else worried that the '04 Protege will be based on the new Focus platform?
I hope that the Ford engineers that designed the new Focus had a lot of input from Mazda on how to build a good car. Otherwise, the focus's dismal reliability record will show up in the next Pro' and this is really gonna hurt Mazda.
here was my message
"Message Body: Why do we have to wait so long for the wagon and
hatchback versions of the Mazda 6? Looking for a car soon and sure would
love to have the wagon or the hatchback as an option......"
here was the reply.......
"Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate
the opportunity to respond to you.
We appreciate your interest in the all-new Mazda6!
Please understand Mazda has not made a final decision for the United
States production of the Mazda6 hatchback or wagon version. However,
consumer feedback is very important to Mazda. I have documented your
comments for the corporate record, which is continuously reviewed in
an effort to provide only the highest quality products to our
customers. Rest assured I have also sent a copy of your suggestion to
the Product Planning department."
That Maxima is looking better after all now....or the 9/3....or the ELement?
http://www.avtoin.com/zeneva2002/slike/Mazda%206%20SW.jpg
YES!!!
Though, if the opposite holds true, it'd be nice for Ford to have a decent replacement for the Taurus. Finally, another good domestic mid-size.