and yes, the workers at Flat Rock are UAW, and the other vehicle to be built there is widely speculated to be the next Mustang.
Congrats on the ride-along. Wish I had been there!
Finally, in the US at least, that Euro Accord will ONLY be at ACURA dealers, and priced accordingly. I have no idea how you got 28k out of a Mazda6, but then a person who wants to justify a decision they have already made can usually do so. Seems to me you have already decided. If so, I hope you enjoy...
Sorry, I didn't even think to look at those. It was a manual transmission car, so I don't know what the sport auto will be like. All I know is that the engine ripped PAST 7000 rpm and sounded mighty sweet doing it. After experience with other duratecs, I'm convinced Mazda did their homework with this engine. It is smooth, it sounds sweet, and it pulls hard all the way to redline. Like I said before, it revs so quick in 1st and 2nd gear that it's easy to overshoot the redline. You would never guess that it is based on the Duratec in the Taurus. It feels, sounds, and performs completely different. Yes, I would trade my Protege in on it. I'd have to drive the Altima too, but I can't imagine it being a better overall package. I don't even know if I would want the 4 cyl after riding in V6.
Looking at the brochure again and noticed that the 6i manual is 270 lbs lighter than the 6s automatic. That is like having a large NFL linebacker on your hood. Gotta affect handling!
Wow! I can't believe with all of the enthusiasts on this board, it seems like I'm going to be the first one to post about DRIVING it.
My husband and I went to Mazda in Schaumburg, IL (suburban Chicago). They had only one 6. It was a white 6s automatic (which for the enthusiasts I'm sorry, but since my husband and I can only drive auto it was good for us). It was pretty decked out -- leather, Bose, moonroof -- seemed to have all of the goodies. We really want a stripped I4 6i with just auto so we didn't look too hard at ALL of the details. We just wanted to make sure the car passed basic confort and handling tests enough so that we'd consider going back to look at the I4 6i.
And this one did pass the comfort test. The back seat was one of the most comfortable back seats I've ever sat in and that includes my parents Lexuses. I'm fairly tall - 5'11" - so I one of the comfort tests is that I position the drivers seat how I like to sit (pushed far back) and then go in the back seat and sit behind the drivers seat adjusted to how I would sit in it. And it seemed plenty comfortable back there. Also there were no parts of the back seat jabbing me in the back or neck. It seemed like it could sit 2 large people back there comfortably with 2 large people and an average person in the middle being tight but doable.
The front passenger seat was actually initially a little more comfortable than the drivers seat. The drivers seat on this model was 8-way power with lumbar adjustments so it didn't seem out of the running uncomfortable and seemed like it could be adjusted to my liking, but that it would just take a bit of time.
Trunk was HUGE. I like to pack big on roadtrips and don't think I'd have a problem even with packing future kids luggage.
Ergonomics of the shift and the center console seemed nice.
Displays/controls for radio and temp controls didn't seem as clear as Protege but nothing done particularly stupidly. (Space for future navigation does seem a little strange.)
So, how did it drive? Well, I'd actually like to take another test drive b/c it seems dealers in the Chicago area (we've been shopping some other models recently) make to like it seem that if they let you go for much more than around the block they're doing you some kind of favor. For example, tonight it was me and my husband and I drove first. Well, as I finish my around the block circuit the salesguy is like, "Okay, if you can just pull it in back here." And my husband's like, "Well, I'd like to drive it, too." As if me and my husband are going to haul all of the way out to the suburbs to test drive this car and we're even going to think of purchasing it WITHOUT him getting a chance to drive it?? What is that??
Anyhow, like I said, before we do anything, we want to drive the I4 anyway, so we will drive it again.
But what I thought of our short ride tonight was that it seemed to have pretty good takeoff and follow through power. It did seem a little creeky (a few quick creeks at certain points). Don't know if that's a brand new car thing -- car only had 9 miles on it. It seemed to stop well and tonight the roads were wet -- not flooded, but coating of rain. The steering wheel actually seemed a tad light and small, but that tilt and telescopic was REAL cool. The steering seemed suprisingly a little loose. Not late 80s U.S. car loose, but a little looser than I expected out of a sports sedan. But maybe that's b/c in our lame Chicago area test drive around the block I wasn't able to simulate highway speed for a decent stretch to test it. From the size of the car and driving it, it didn't seem like it would be real hard to park it in a lot and this is someone who's driven a small Corrolla for 13 years but has dabbled in driving her parents and grandparents whale size Lexuses and Avalons. I couldn't really simulate parallel parking and while it might be harder that with a Corrolla I wouldn't think it would be real challenging like with an Avalon.
Summary: must get a longer test drive in 6i I4 and fiddle with driver and front passenger seats a little more. So, not a slam dunk, but not scratched of the list b/c of something horribly stupid.
By the way, does anyone have a "strategy" for when dealing with dealers to get them to actually let you really test drive a car. I was just visiting my parents recently in New Orleans where I grew up and like when I grew up there they let you drive cars a few blocks to the interstate, drive one or two exits down on the interstate and drive the car back to the dealership. In Schaumburg tonight, when I asked about driving the car a few blocks to the interstate and driving it on the interstate, they said they couldn't because of something having to do with the plates but that as part of their customer satisfaction that once they got a deposit check from me, they would let me take it on the interstate and if I wasn't happy with how it handled on the interstate they would give me my check back. I told my mom that and she said that was BS. Comments/ suggestions -- even other places to post this problem/question on Edmunds.
This helps ensure 6's will be around for a long, long time. And I bet the 6/Atenza is a big part of the reason, too:
Mazda--net profit of 5.58 billion yen ($46.5 million) in the six months through September 30. The results represent a 324.6 percent surge compared with a 1.3 billion yen profit posted in the year-ago period.
Yeah, tell them you want to test drive it on the highway and on the streets for 30 mins. If you;re really interested in buying a car soon, tell them and they will accomodate that request, but you must understand that most people just come in for a test drive just for the sake of it, notb/c they're actually buying, so dealers try to minimize their time lost w.you, time they could spend w.someone that's actually buying now.
that they wouldn't take you for a long test drive is because they only have one car. The car that I rode in didn't even belong to the dealership. It was the district manager's car. As soon as Morries gets their dealer stock, test drives should be available. When my Dad buys one, I'll really be able to test drive......
I guess if the cars are just reaching the dealerships, you can't really drive them until they get a full stock.
I remember when the ECHO first came out, they wouldn't let me test drive one. I had asked at CarMax in Laurel, MD, and they said I would have to fill out a credit application first, because people were putting too many miles on the cars, test driving them. That's rediculous.
I can't wait to test drive the car myself. Sounds pretty interesting.
With the sport shift, the tranny probably upshifts at redline, to prevent engine harm. Almost all of them are that way.
Newcar, how did the guy rev the engine past 7000rpm? Isn't the redline lower than that? I am surprised the fuel cutoff wouldn't kick in by then. Of course, the DM's car might also be a pre-production model.
I noticed in the manual, the car actually does not have rear headrests while my Japanese made model for Latin America has 3. Full size on the sides and half size in the middle. All 3 are height adjustable. They do block the rear view mirror view somewhat (along with the spoiler) but I can live with that. Could it be for that reason they eliminated them in the NA model? I would think protecting whiplash is a more important safety feature than rear view.
As stated before, my model has folding side mirrors and they both have the same perspective. No 'closer than they appear' warning on the passenger side.
And for you test drivers, still waiting to find out where the aux. power port is located. If it's on the front of the center console, I'd think any plug would block the center cupholder latched cover from opening.
I don't even remember what the redline is, but I saw the needle sweep into the red zone and past 7000 rpm. I would think the fuel cutoff would be before that, but I guess not. Maybe Maltb could let us know about that, I'm curious too. The engine didn't sound stressed at all around 7000 rpm.
Newcar must have been out driving around in the car when I ran through their lot around 4:00 - 4:15, no Mazda6 in sight. Bummer.
The rear head rests (or lack thereof) is really stupid. VWs, Accords, and Camry all have them. I saw that the Pro5 has them too.
Looking at the brocure, that steel grey metalic color is really cool. I think its called gunmetal grey in other markets, but that would be too un-PC here...
Actually, it was around 5-5:30. The car was being driven all day by sales people. You should have waited there a couple minutes and the car would have been back there. When I got there, the car was out driving.
impatient daughter along who wasn't interested in waitng around. Believe me, I drove through and away from the lot VERY, VERY slowly hoping to catch a glimpse...
And took a gander at the white 6 they had. Didn't drive it, just sat in it. I was definitely impressed with the folding rear seats, but didn't like the rear tail lights. They aren't flush with the body - they stick out a little.
As have many of you, I sent an email to Mazda regarding the way the packaging is being presented on the Mazda website. I recieved the following response. I specifically asked to not have a "canned" PR response and I got it. Interesting to note that they have been flooded with emails regarding this very subject and also note that they have recently had high level product planning meetings to discuss this very matter. This doesn't mean they are going to change anything, it just means that they are aware of it. Isn't the power of the internet incredible! This kind of pressure would not have been possible 5 years ago. Read on: -----Original Message----- From: CustomerAssistance [mailto:CustomerAssistance@mazdausa.com] Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:13 AM To: Tim XXXX Subject: Re: Mazda 6 & trim packaging (KMM73045V37018L0KM)
Dear Tim,
First, let me say that I'm sorry you feel our responses from our E-Business team are 'canned.' We have worked hard to give the most correct response from the information we are given from our Product Planning department. Due to the sheer amount of e-mails we've received, many of the answers we have given have been similar. Please understand that this does not mean we care any less for the opinions expressed in each e-mail. We are simply trying to give the answers as quickly as possible, while documenting and forwarding each comment.
I'm sure you've heard that at this time, the MAZDA6 combinations listed on the website are correct. Every e-mail that we have received is very important to Mazda. Rest assured you are definitely within the demographics of the customers we are targeting the vehicle toward.
That said, I would like to add a small personal note about the MAZDA6. It is a totally awesome car! I got the opportunity to ride around the Las Vegas Speedway in our MAZDA6, driven by a professional race car driver at 120 miles per hour. What a rush. It amazed me that a stock car had such a high level of maneuverability and handling.
I am sorry to hear if the combinations are deterring you from a purchase. Please know, that our E-Business team is doing everything within our power to forward the MAZDA6 comments directly to the people who make the decisions. I know that the Product Planning department is aware of the the many website conversations our customers are having. I also know they have recently had high-level meetings to discuss this exact topic.
I will be looking at the TSX as well. I'm guessing, having driven the Altima, that the 6 and the TSX will be my front runners. We shall see.
As far as TSX prices, yes it's an Acura, but the price can't get too high or it will tread into TL ($28-$32k) territory, instead of being allied with the RSX ($20-23k), as sort of the RSX's 4-Door sibling - relatively small, nimble, with high revving I4.
If the price of the TSX is reasonable, when you throw in the superior Acura customer service relative to Mazda, you've got (IMO) an attractive alternative to the 6. No V6 on the TSX, but I personally don't care about cylinder count, just about bottom line performance.
"No V6 on the TSX, but I personally don't care about cylinder count, just about bottom line performance"
If there's no V6, then you can guarantee that the Mazda6 V6 is going to have much better low end punch than a peaky Honda 4 cyl. It may have similiar performance #s when it's released, but I'd rather have the relaxed performance of a V6 than the high strung power of a 4 cyl, especially in a sedan of this size.
Take a drive in the current Accord with the 2.4 and manual tranny. It has plenty of low end, and the TSX should be lighter and more powerfull. Yes some of the Honda engines are very high strung (s2000 et al) but the 2.4 is quite a nice engine, as I hope the 2.3 in the Mazda is.
"Take a drive in the current Accord with the 2.4 and manual tranny. It has plenty of low end, and the TSX should be lighter and more powerfull."
Since the 2.4L in the TSX will have more HP than the Accord 2.4L, I would imagine that some low rpm grunt will be lost compared to the Accord engine. The peak torque numbers may not change, but the engine's power band will. With a NA engine, when you add high rpm power, low rpm power goes down. Variable valve timing lessens this effect, but it's still there. Torque is almost directly related to displacement. There are other factors, but displacement is the main factor. The Mazda6 V6 will have more torque throughout the entire RPM range than the TSX 4cyl.
Malt---what is the fuel cutoff point for the Mazda6 V6? I saw the needle go past 7000 rpms. Is that normal?
when he wrote up the Mazda 6 review. Apart from the previously noted "technical typos", read this:
Vehicle Tested: 2002 Mazda 626 NOT STYLE SPECIFIC (vehicle detail)
Pros: Excellent handling and ride, automanual transmission, nicely appointed interior.
Cons: Tight rear-seat accommodations, engine doesn't match the power of its competitors.
Edmunds.com Says: Tired of the dull, sensible, vanilla- flavored family sedan? If you're willing to give up some passenger comfort, the Mazda 6 offers to add a dash of zing to your daily commute.
I take it that there is no rev limiter or fuel cutoff on the Mazda 6 V6. Mazda must be pretty confident in the high rpm strength of the V6 considering how easy it is to zing into the red zone on the tach.
If the port is inside the console, that means your phone connected to the charger will have to be inside as well which seems a little inconvenient for using the phone. The cover would have to remain open. What about connecting a laptop? Unless of course there's an opening for the cord.
Do you know if it is in the top tray section or in the bottom compartment?
... that what you saw wasn't merely the needle overshooting redline and bouncing back (which you wouldn't notice thereafter, because during hard driving, gears would b shifted by the driver, and revs would drop down), as magnetic/servo-operated measuring devices are apt to do? Which is why a digital rev-meter and speedometer (however weird and f-ugly looking) is the only accurate way to do things.
Not to mention the fact that these gauges (mechanical, needle, servo-operated) are built to within 10% tolerances, rarely higher (althuogh some may be better than others!)
"Confidence" in the 6-cylinder engine aside, Mazda would be STUPID to allow a car to rev the engine higher than safe, prescribed limits, with no checks whatsoever, and risk loads of damage and warranty claims, methinks!
Still, its good to hear that the engine is even more impressive and eager than the powerful, but somewhat lethargic Ford version in Taurii!
If the needle was just overshooting redline, it was overshooting it quite a bit. There was no "bouncing", I know what that looks like. It went past 7000 rpm. I can't remember what the redline is, but I know it isn't 7000 or more.
"It may have similar performance #s when it's released, but I'd rather have the relaxed performance of a V6 than the high strung power of a 4 cyl, especially in a sedan of this size. "
To each is own. That's why my wife drives the Grand Prix GTP - she likes the low end torque, and I drive the Mazda Protege - I'll take a hit on acceleration for better balance.
Even if I went with the 6, I'd go for the 4 cylinder, sacrificing low end torque and acceleration for better balance and lower price tag. With the TSX, I bet acceleration numbers are similar to the V6 6, so all I'd loose in exchange for better balance (all other things being equal, which they certainly are not) is the low end torque. Once again, that's just my tastes.
It's an age old debate, especially here in the land of the big V8s.
The Protege is a lot smaller than the 6 or Grand Prix, so a 4 cyl isn't that bad. The Mazda6 is quite a bit heavier than a Protege, which is why I wouldn't mind getting the V6. The balance of your Grand Prix is going to be a whole lot different than the Mazda6 V6. Don't use your Grand Prix as a way to gauge what the Mazda6 V6 will be like in terms of being front-heavy. The Grand Prix has a supercharged iron pushrod boat anchor under the hood. The Mazda6 V6 is all aluminum and I'm sure weighs much less than the supercharged 3800. But you're right, to each his own....
I'm warning you now though, you may feel differently after driving the 6 cyl.
"Which is why a digital rev-meter and speedometer (however weird and f-ugly looking) is the only accurate way to do things."
The computer I mount on my bicycle which indicate average speed, maximum speed, distance, cadence, etc... is absolutely accurate within 0.2 or 0.3% and it costs about $30. Why can't we have one of these on the $20k cars?
Oh, I have no doubt that the V6 6 will handle much better that the wife's GP. So don't you worry, I'm not using it as the measuring stick, just as an example of different strokes for different folks.
I'm guessing, though, and have read that the I4 6 is a bit better balanced than the V6 6 (in the AutoWeek review, I think). If I decide to move out of the Pro, I will try them all - TSX included - just to be sure. Gee, that won't be any fun at all! ;-)
"If I decide to move out of the Pro, I will try them all."
Beside being bigger and more refined, I wonder if the 6 is any better than the Protege, especially in the handling department. I bet it does with, what, 300+ extra lb?
I'm positive that the 4cyl will be more balanced than the V6. There is less weight on the front end. The Taurus SHO would have been better balanced had it come with a lighter 4 cyl too, but that wouldn't have been any fun, would it?
Given Ford's limited range of 4's at the time of the SHO, though, I suppose it wouldn't have been any fun. Mazda's new 2.3 I4 sounds like it is a different story.
I don't think it would be AS fun with even with Mazda's new 160 hp 4 cyl. The car I rode in last night reminded me of the Taurus SHO only more refined with better handling, quality and looks. The old V6 SHO and Mazda6 V6 are similiar in "spirit" IMO.
Mazda has the wieght distribution of the Protege and both configurations of the 6 (interesting, eh?) at 60:40. Still, I'm guessing the Pro is noticeable lighter with 400 to 600 fewer lbs to throw around. It will be interesting to do a back to back to back comparison when the 6i and 6s are available.
Comments
Congrats on the ride-along. Wish I had been there!
Finally, in the US at least, that Euro Accord will ONLY be at ACURA dealers, and priced accordingly. I have no idea how you got 28k out of a Mazda6, but then a person who wants to justify a decision they have already made can usually do so. Seems to me you have already decided. If so, I hope you enjoy...
Dinu
My husband and I went to Mazda in Schaumburg, IL (suburban Chicago). They had only one 6. It was a white 6s automatic (which for the enthusiasts I'm sorry, but since my husband and I can only drive auto it was good for us). It was pretty decked out -- leather, Bose, moonroof -- seemed to have all of the goodies. We really want a stripped I4 6i with just auto so we didn't look too hard at ALL of the details. We just wanted to make sure the car passed basic confort and handling tests enough so that we'd consider going back to look at the I4 6i.
And this one did pass the comfort test. The back seat was one of the most comfortable back seats I've ever sat in and that includes my parents Lexuses. I'm fairly tall - 5'11" - so I one of the comfort tests is that I position the drivers seat how I like to sit (pushed far back) and then go in the back seat and sit behind the drivers seat adjusted to how I would sit in it. And it seemed plenty comfortable back there. Also there were no parts of the back seat jabbing me in the back or neck. It seemed like it could sit 2 large people back there comfortably with 2 large people and an average person in the middle being tight but doable.
The front passenger seat was actually initially a little more comfortable than the drivers seat. The drivers seat on this model was 8-way power with lumbar adjustments so it didn't seem out of the running uncomfortable and seemed like it could be adjusted to my liking, but that it would just take a bit of time.
Trunk was HUGE. I like to pack big on roadtrips and don't think I'd have a problem even with packing future kids luggage.
Ergonomics of the shift and the center console seemed nice.
Displays/controls for radio and temp controls didn't seem as clear as Protege but nothing done particularly stupidly. (Space for future navigation does seem a little strange.)
So, how did it drive? Well, I'd actually like to take another test drive b/c it seems dealers in the Chicago area (we've been shopping some other models recently) make to like it seem that if they let you go for much more than around the block they're doing you some kind of favor. For example, tonight it was me and my husband and I drove first. Well, as I finish my around the block circuit the salesguy is like, "Okay, if you can just pull it in back here." And my husband's like, "Well, I'd like to drive it, too." As if me and my husband are going to haul all of the way out to the suburbs to test drive this car and we're even going to think of purchasing it WITHOUT him getting a chance to drive it?? What is that??
Anyhow, like I said, before we do anything, we want to drive the I4 anyway, so we will drive it again.
But what I thought of our short ride tonight was that it seemed to have pretty good takeoff and follow through power. It did seem a little creeky (a few quick creeks at certain points). Don't know if that's a brand new car thing -- car only had 9 miles on it. It seemed to stop well and tonight the roads were wet -- not flooded, but coating of rain. The steering wheel actually seemed a tad light and small, but that tilt and telescopic was REAL cool. The steering seemed suprisingly a little loose. Not late 80s U.S. car loose, but a little looser than I expected out of a sports sedan. But maybe that's b/c in our lame Chicago area test drive around the block I wasn't able to simulate highway speed for a decent stretch to test it. From the size of the car and driving it, it didn't seem like it would be real hard to park it in a lot and this is someone who's driven a small Corrolla for 13 years but has dabbled in driving her parents and grandparents whale size Lexuses and Avalons. I couldn't really simulate parallel parking and while it might be harder that with a Corrolla I wouldn't think it would be real challenging like with an Avalon.
Summary: must get a longer test drive in 6i I4 and fiddle with driver and front passenger seats a little more. So, not a slam dunk, but not scratched of the list b/c of something horribly stupid.
By the way, does anyone have a "strategy" for when dealing with dealers to get them to actually let you really test drive a car. I was just visiting my parents recently in New Orleans where I grew up and like when I grew up there they let you drive cars a few blocks to the interstate, drive one or two exits down on the interstate and drive the car back to the dealership. In Schaumburg tonight, when I asked about driving the car a few blocks to the interstate and driving it on the interstate, they said they couldn't because of something having to do with the plates but that as part of their customer satisfaction that once they got a deposit check from me, they would let me take it on the interstate and if I wasn't happy with how it handled on the interstate they would give me my check back. I told my mom that and she said that was BS. Comments/ suggestions -- even other places to post this problem/question on Edmunds.
Mazda--net profit of 5.58 billion yen ($46.5 million) in the six months through September 30. The results represent a 324.6 percent surge compared with a 1.3 billion yen profit posted in the year-ago period.
Make your intentionc clear.
Dinu
I remember when the ECHO first came out, they wouldn't let me test drive one. I had asked at CarMax in Laurel, MD, and they said I would have to fill out a credit application first, because people were putting too many miles on the cars, test driving them. That's rediculous.
I can't wait to test drive the car myself. Sounds pretty interesting.
Newcar, how did the guy rev the engine past 7000rpm? Isn't the redline lower than that? I am surprised the fuel cutoff wouldn't kick in by then. Of course, the DM's car might also be a pre-production model.
As stated before, my model has folding side mirrors and they both have the same perspective. No 'closer than they appear' warning on the passenger side.
And for you test drivers, still waiting to find out where the aux. power port is located. If it's on the front of the center console, I'd think any plug would block the center cupholder latched cover from opening.
Any crash test scores (from other countries, perhaps?) available yet? Just curious.
The rear head rests (or lack thereof) is really stupid. VWs, Accords, and Camry all have them. I saw that the Pro5 has them too.
Looking at the brocure, that steel grey metalic color is really cool. I think its called gunmetal grey in other markets, but that would be too un-PC here...
Read on:
-----Original Message-----
From: CustomerAssistance [mailto:CustomerAssistance@mazdausa.com]
Sent: Monday, November 11, 2002 10:13 AM
To: Tim XXXX
Subject: Re: Mazda 6 & trim packaging (KMM73045V37018L0KM)
Dear Tim,
First, let me say that I'm sorry you feel our responses from our
E-Business team are 'canned.' We have worked hard to give the most
correct response from the information we are given from our Product
Planning department. Due to the sheer amount of e-mails we've received,
many of the answers we have given have been similar. Please understand
that this does not mean we care any less for the opinions expressed in
each e-mail. We are simply trying to give the answers as quickly as
possible, while documenting and forwarding each comment.
I'm sure you've heard that at this time, the MAZDA6 combinations listed
on the website are correct. Every e-mail that we have received is very
important to Mazda. Rest assured you are definitely within the
demographics of the customers we are targeting the vehicle toward.
That said, I would like to add a small personal note about the MAZDA6.
It is a totally awesome car! I got the opportunity to ride around the
Las Vegas Speedway in our MAZDA6, driven by a professional race car
driver at 120 miles per hour. What a rush. It amazed me that a stock
car had such a high level of maneuverability and handling.
I am sorry to hear if the combinations are deterring you from a
purchase. Please know, that our E-Business team is doing everything
within our power to forward the MAZDA6 comments directly to the people
who make the decisions. I know that the Product Planning department is
aware of the the many website conversations our customers are having. I
also know they have recently had high-level meetings to discuss this
exact topic.
Please let me know if I can do anything else.
Hey, imagine if they put that turbo 2.3 in something the size of the Protege/P5.
And...glad to hear that Mazda NA is paying attention to the response to the restricted optioning on the 6.
As far as TSX prices, yes it's an Acura, but the price can't get too high or it will tread into TL ($28-$32k) territory, instead of being allied with the RSX ($20-23k), as sort of the RSX's 4-Door sibling - relatively small, nimble, with high revving I4.
If the price of the TSX is reasonable, when you throw in the superior Acura customer service relative to Mazda, you've got (IMO) an attractive alternative to the 6. No V6 on the TSX, but I personally don't care about cylinder count, just about bottom line performance.
If there's no V6, then you can guarantee that the Mazda6 V6 is going to have much better low end punch than a peaky Honda 4 cyl. It may have similiar performance #s when it's released, but I'd rather have the relaxed performance of a V6 than the high strung power of a 4 cyl, especially in a sedan of this size.
The power port is located inside the console box so your phone charger and cord all stay neatly tucked out of sight.
Since the 2.4L in the TSX will have more HP than the Accord 2.4L, I would imagine that some low rpm grunt will be lost compared to the Accord engine. The peak torque numbers may not change, but the engine's power band will. With a NA engine, when you add high rpm power, low rpm power goes down. Variable valve timing lessens this effect, but it's still there. Torque is almost directly related to displacement. There are other factors, but displacement is the main factor. The Mazda6 V6 will have more torque throughout the entire RPM range than the TSX 4cyl.
Malt---what is the fuel cutoff point for the Mazda6 V6? I saw the needle go past 7000 rpms. Is that normal?
Apart from the previously noted "technical typos", read this:
Vehicle Tested:
2002 Mazda 626 NOT STYLE SPECIFIC
(vehicle detail)
Pros: Excellent handling and ride, automanual transmission, nicely appointed interior.
Cons: Tight rear-seat accommodations, engine doesn't match the power of its competitors.
Edmunds.com Says: Tired of the dull, sensible, vanilla- flavored family sedan? If you're willing to give up some passenger comfort, the Mazda 6 offers to add a dash of zing to your daily commute.
Options on Test Vehicle: N/ A
source:http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/roadtests/roadtest/77843/article.html
Do you know if it is in the top tray section or in the bottom compartment?
Not to mention the fact that these gauges (mechanical, needle, servo-operated) are built to within 10% tolerances, rarely higher (althuogh some may be better than others!)
"Confidence" in the 6-cylinder engine aside, Mazda would be STUPID to allow a car to rev the engine higher than safe, prescribed limits, with no checks whatsoever, and risk loads of damage and warranty claims, methinks!
Still, its good to hear that the engine is even more impressive and eager than the powerful, but somewhat lethargic Ford version in Taurii!
To each is own. That's why my wife drives the Grand Prix GTP - she likes the low end torque, and I drive the Mazda Protege - I'll take a hit on acceleration for better balance.
Even if I went with the 6, I'd go for the 4 cylinder, sacrificing low end torque and acceleration for better balance and lower price tag. With the TSX, I bet acceleration numbers are similar to the V6 6, so all I'd loose in exchange for better balance (all other things being equal, which they certainly are not) is the low end torque. Once again, that's just my tastes.
It's an age old debate, especially here in the land of the big V8s.
Of course, on the straight-aways, it was a different story.
here is sketch of the powerport location:
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/maltbarley/vwp?.dir=/Misc+Shared+Pics&.dnm=console.jpg&.src=ph&.view=t&.hires=t
I'm warning you now though, you may feel differently after driving the 6 cyl.
The computer I mount on my bicycle which indicate average speed, maximum speed, distance, cadence, etc... is absolutely accurate within 0.2 or 0.3% and it costs about $30. Why can't we have one of these on the $20k cars?
I'm guessing, though, and have read that the I4 6 is a bit better balanced than the V6 6 (in the AutoWeek review, I think). If I decide to move out of the Pro, I will try them all - TSX included - just to be sure. Gee, that won't be any fun at all! ;-)
Beside being bigger and more refined, I wonder if the 6 is any better than the Protege, especially in the handling department. I bet it does with, what, 300+ extra lb?
Given Ford's limited range of 4's at the time of the SHO, though, I suppose it wouldn't have been any fun. Mazda's new 2.3 I4 sounds like it is a different story.
I don't think it would be AS fun with even with Mazda's new 160 hp 4 cyl. The car I rode in last night reminded me of the Taurus SHO only more refined with better handling, quality and looks. The old V6 SHO and Mazda6 V6 are similiar in "spirit" IMO.
Protege:
2634
6i:
3042
6s:
3242
Mazda has the wieght distribution of the Protege and both configurations of the 6 (interesting, eh?) at 60:40. Still, I'm guessing the Pro is noticeable lighter with 400 to 600 fewer lbs to throw around. It will be interesting to do a back to back to back comparison when the 6i and 6s are available.