Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    2001 LLBean

    Front rotors turned at 10K.
    Front rotors and pads replaced by Subaru at 22K (Told the rotors had "hot spots").
    All fine at 42K.

    Thought it was a design issue - stopping 3750 lbs. - but now leaning toward bad initial rotors.

    Ralph
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Frank: the factory settings only allow you to turn it on or off. Ours is off, you tend to hear the doors lock anyway.

    Maybe 5 speeds are less prone to having that problem. I still have the original pads on my Forester at 52k!

    -juice
  • vetmatsvetmats Member Posts: 71
    It might be the 5 spds. I have a 5 spd Outback with 66K miles, and I still have 50% left on my brake pads.
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    Mine is also turned off. I lived in a townhouse when I bought the car, and didn't want to annoy the neighbors (although they didn't seem to mind annoying ME!!!)
    Anyway, I hear the doors lock and as it was said .. the lights flash also .. the beeps and chirps annoy me!
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    At one of the race schools I attended recently they instructed us to only use engine braking in emergency situations where you have no brakes, and no emergency brakes. The theory was 2 fold:

    Brakes are much cheaper than transmissions
    Engines can stop you at about 150-300hp (whatever HP your engine is), generally brakes have stopping power of 2500hp-3000hp :)

    -mike
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If only brakes could accelerate, paisan!

    -juice
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    I guess I'm the odd one- 2000 OB 5MT replaced front and rear rotors at 36000 miles due to warpage, covered under warranty.

    Mark
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Al'gator's front rotors were warped @ 25k miles.
    Wasn't replaced... didn't need to. :D

    -Dave

    p/s Mark- got your e-mail. Thanks :D
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Mike - I'm glad they recommend using engine braking in a situation where you have no brakes and no emergency brakes, but it's hardly news - what other option do you have for stopping? :-) Sorry, couldn't resist.

    Also, they're mistaken that engine braking is the same power as the engine's rated horsepower. An engine makes power out of fuel to get its rated horsepower, while engine braking is simply a factor of engine friction and compression losses. If they were equal, the engine could not overcome its own compression and friction to run.

    To add to the braking issues, my '97's brakes are slightly warped and have been since I bought the car at 23, 000 miles. I think Subaru uses a domestic source for their rotors and they're inferior but Sube wants American content to keep out of hot water politically.

    IdahoDoug
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Needed to reschedule my apptmt with the dealer about my brakes yesterday. My mom is in the hospital. I'll try again next week and let you know.

    Greg
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    So then engine brakeing is LESS HP than the engine HP which further strengthens the arguement for not using it as a method to slow down!

    -mike
  • jerrys2jerrys2 Member Posts: 189
    My daughter now owns my 2000 Outback Ltd. but as a single Mom she doesn't have the time to utilize this board...besides I miss the car and still love it.

    I had new pads and rotors machined at 53k. Pads are "RAYB. BLUE BOX" after 7k the dust on the rims is almost like paint and so far has been impossible to remove.

    Did I install wrong pads? How can I clean the rims? (Daughter doesn't have time to clean either.)

    Jerry
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Get a time machine, go back in time, then wax the rims before getting the new brakes, and every time you rotate the tires. ;-)

    Try a bug/tar remover and some elbow grease. You could also use WD40 or a solvent, just be careful and test an area first. Wash it when you are done, then put on a coat of wax (most rims are painted).

    I bought used alloys from a Legacy that is 2 generations old, and when I was done they looked like this:

    http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4291761427&p=4256046990- &idx=3

    -juice
  • K9LeaderK9Leader Member Posts: 112
    NYGreg:

    Yes, there was some warping on my Sienna rotors, but it was after quite a few miles and completely within reason. I can't recall exactly at what mileage that occurred -- it is the wife's car so would have to get out the maintenance file at home.

    You are correct that heavier cars should have larger brakes that would dissipate more heat. But, I suspect that they are not usually enough larger (probably can't be enough larger and still fit in the wheel well) to compensate for the tremendous extra heat of the additional weight. Next time you see a Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, or other exotic sports car in the Wal-Mart parking lot, check out the massive disks on the front of those things.

    Some of the technical/engineer types will have to weigh in on this one as I only have a very general understanding of the whole friction/heat/energy transfer thing. I have a friend who could answer it, but I hesitate to ask the question as it would obligate me to listen to the hour-and-fifteen minute response he would want to give rather than the under-10 minute response I would want to hear. And the OB is a heavy car, only a couple hundred pounds lighter than my Mark VIII.

    --K9Leader
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Some big vans have just 15" rims. The rim size limits the brake rotor size, so you know those are small.

    Now, picture a van loaded with 7 people plus cargo, then those tiny rotors fighting to stop all that weight.

    I think swept area is important, so a bigger rotor diameter is key.

    -juice
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    There is a lot at play here. Some items:
      
    1) Front to rear weight ratio and weight transfer during braking. This determines how much the fronts have to do. Although I like the idea of 4 wheel disks, on some vehicles, adding rear disks may be somewhat irrelevant - the fronts are doing almost all of the work.

    2) Increasing the rotor diameter and pad size serves to increase the total swept area plus the instantaneous contact area. That aids stopping power, plus the increased total external rotor surface helps radiate heat. If the pads get too large, extra pistons are required to promote even pressure. Some heat is shed thru piston contact to the caliper and bracket assembly. But you have to be careful not to 'cook' the fluid and caliper seals. Material selection in brake components plays a part in how quickly the heat 'moves' from the point of generation to the total system for good dissapation.

    3) Making the core of the rotor hollow (venting fins) further increases the total surface area. How efficiently the air flows thru this honeycomb is a factor. Some fin designs work like fans, some just hold the two halves together...

    4) Slotting and cross drilling - much debate on gas trapping, etc. I won't go here....

    5) Total airflow around the brake system is extremely important - a function of wheel design and air porting thru the lower facia (front bumper) region.

    How was that, Robert?

    Steve
  • K9LeaderK9Leader Member Posts: 112
    On the Lincolns of Distinction board, during one of the many discussions on rotor warping, someone posted a picture (or a link to a picture) of the rotors on a Porsche racer that were glowing red hot. I will try to find it -- it dramatically made the point that braking is heat, heat, heat. Frankly, it is amazing that most rotors last as long as they do.

    Steve, what do you know about frozen rotors?

    --Rob aka K9Leader
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Supposedly last longer w/o warping. I was tempted to get them for the SVX but bailed due to the high pricing of them, figured that if I warp, I'll just pickup another set of non-cryoed ones.

    -mike
  • tn_fredtn_fred Member Posts: 1
    My girlfriend got a new LL Bean OB last november & is allready having problems. The problem is intermittent. It stalls or seems to stall when shifting from P to D. The car only has 9000 miles on it. It also has had power issues too--key on but no electricity (only once). Sometimes it will idle kind of roughly around 500 rpms. I see some of you have had similar problems which is kind of reassuring. we have taken it to the dealer twice now & currently are driving a loaner. The mechanics cant replicate the problem either.

    This is very fustrating. Does anyone have any tips, advice, or similar experiences?

    Thanks!
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    Wow, lots of LLBean problems all of the sudden... :-)

    My 2001 LLBean w/ 42.5K has had no problems, except for the front rotors...Knock on plastic wood...

    Ralph
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    You can try an ECU reset the old fashioned way (disconnect the battery), which would be a temporary fix. Hopefully the dealer will find something more permanent.

    -juice
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    Just had my rear brake rotors machined and new pads installed (originals lasted 65k).

    When braking, there is a low groaning noise. My wife heard a high pitch squeak this morning while driving (on and off) with no brakes being applied. I test drove it but didn't hear it. It looked like everything had been put back together properly.

    Are the pads just settling on the newly machined rotors or did the dealer screw up? Any thoughts from those of you more mechanically inclined than I?

    -Eric
  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    My father-in-laws Legacy is at it again. (He had his tranny go at 62K, a leak in the roof, a bad sunroof switch....) well now both the driver and passenger seat belts are not retracting properly. When you remove the seat belt they do not auto-retract. You must fiddle with them to get them to retract, if they retract at all. Obviously this is a safety hazard. I told him I would think Subaru would cover this but he doubts it. After all the $$$$ he invested in this I'd love to save him a few if someone has any ideas what might be wrong---or knows of a solution. THANKS!!!!!
  • snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    Think I'm about to join the "warped rotor club" as my 02 VDC has developed a pulsation in the steering wheel when I brake. First noticed this at 16.5K. Not looking forward to arguing with the dealer over why I want the rotors replaced and not turned. Over the phone, the dealer told me they never heard of this problem on an OB. This same dealer told me they replaced the Bose radio because of a short, but didn't. Last car was a Mazda 626. The rotors were turned once and replaced once and the car was running fine at 92k. If Subaru wants to go "upscale", its going to need to improve its dealer service and build vehicles where the rotors don't go at such low mileage. The rotors on my wife's 00 OB sedan do not pulsate at 32.5 k.
  • mcneillmcneill Member Posts: 1
    Hi, I have a 2001 Outback with 17K. It has had front end damage and been repaired. I have just purchased the car so I don't have previous Subaru experience. Every time I brake the steering wheel shakes left and right. The car will go straight if I remove my hands from wheel while breaking.

    Anyone have advice or experience?
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    You have warped rotors. You can get them resurfaced or replaced. Make sure that the service place hand tightens the lug nuts with a torque wrench (that helps eliminate one potential cause of warped rotors).

    -Brian
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Eric: I'd go back, sounds like something is not right.

    andre: dunno about the seat belts, but ask the dealer. I think safety equipment is covered for a longer period.

    Martin: our last car was also a 626, but our experience was the opposite. I looked at old service receipts, and you would not believe it. We had oil leaks, brakes, muffler, axle, bearing, 02 sensor, and fuel injection problems with ours. I was happy to be rid of it.

    McNeill: also consider an alignment. If insurance paid for the damage, they might even cover the costs for you.

    -juice
  • beach2beach2 Member Posts: 6
    I have an '01 Outback wagon, MT. About 2 months ago i noticed that the floor under my feet (driver side only) is constantly wet. I assumed it was water from my feet and the fact that it's been raining constantly here for a month it seems. However, after wet-vaccuuming the carpet and drying the floor mat in the dryer, the next day the floor was sopping wet, again. I also am noticing a sloshing sound coming from under the car when i start in the morning, and occasionally when i'm driving.
    has anyone had any problem similar to this? is there a solution? if i bring it to the dealer, should i have them replace the carpeting under warranty since it is bound to become moldy?
    any help or advice would be appreciated. i love this car and maintain it religiously and i hate thinking that the water is damaging it.
  • K9LeaderK9Leader Member Posts: 112
    You need to give more detail. Is it garaged or out in the elements? After you dried it was it out in heavy rain? This line of questioning is looking for a leak, most likely in the sun roof if it has one, or the windshield, but possibly from the door or its window. If you have a sun roof, the first thing to check is whether the drain holes are clogged.

    Have you been running the A/C or the defrost/defog a lot? The condenser dehumidifies and collects a lot of water. If it is not draining properly, then the excess could be leaking out/sloshing out into the footwell.

    What about your coolant level? Has it been constant? Or is it down? Does the moisture in the footwell smell like coolant? I've heard stories of coolant leaking into the footwell.

    --K9Leader
  • beach2beach2 Member Posts: 6
    i can start by answering your questions;
    it is never garaged. after i dried it out, yes, it did rain. it does not have a sunroof, and there is no water coming in through the window or windshield. the water seems to be coming from below. i say this because after i dried the floomat and the carpet, the next morning the floor mat was wet and the carpet was soaked. it's as if there is water pooled underneath the floor somehow.
    i haven't used the AC much, the defog occasionally but not for more than 10 minutes in the morning. there is no coolant smell in the moisture, only the musty smell of standing water.
    also, there is always an area of wetness on the ground underneath the driver side, behind the wheel.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Inspect the underside. You might have a hole, perhaps created by running over some debris or something.

    Another possibility, which I've seen with Miatas, is that the drains under the side valances are clogged. One symptom is you usually hear water sloshing around. A thorough clean up and maybe a paper clip to clear the drain holes might help.

    Let us know what you find?

    -juice
  • jay_24jay_24 Member Posts: 536
    Pour a little water up by the windshield wiper and it should drain out near the front of the driver side door. If not, its plugged or partially plugged.

    --jay
  • snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    The dealer confirmed today that the front rotors on my 02 VDC were warped and as per SOA warranty policy, turned them. The dealer zeroxed a copy of SOA policy after I asked if the policy was in writing. SOA policy states that during the warranty period, cases of brake judder, (SOA language) unrelated to brake pad wear, require rotor resurfacing, and if the problem happens again during the warranty period, a second resurfacing is required. SOA will replace rotors only if they are too thin to resurface. I have no problem with SOA requiring resurfacing first, BUT since resurfacing adds "wear" to the rotors and reduces their useful life, SOA ought to add mileage on to the 3/36 warranty for those rotors. The dealer did admit to seeing this problem in other Subies, but numbers or percentages are State secrets.
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I have an appointment tomorrow to have mine looked at. Last time it was hot spots and they changed the fronts for me. I believe it will be the same diagnosis tomorrow. They told me in Dec that the work is warrantied for 12 mos or 12K miles regardless of 3/36. We'll see. Outside of that, love this car. Can't wait to have time to wax her.

    Greg
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    LLBean
    Front rotors resurfaced at 10K
    Front rotors AND pads replaced at 22K
    All fine now at 43K+ (only problem with car so far - knock on plastic wood).
    Curry Subaru told me (in 2002) SOB had 1 resurface, then replace policy. Do not accept 2 resurfacing! That's crazy!

    Ralph
  • skid00skid00 Member Posts: 1
    I've suffered the infamous clutch judder since new on my 2000 OBW. Viciously slipping the clutch early in the drive would 'fix' the shudder for that drive... but wasn't something I really wanted to have to do all the time! :)

    In the past, I noticed that the clutch pedal would stick after release, not coming up all the way. I lubed it with WD40 (which evaporated after awhile) and the shudder would go away.

    I finally did the job right, and did my contortionist act, using 'sticky' motorcycle chain lube on ALL the linkages/shafts under the dash. My clutch has not shuddered AT ALL for several months! I'm convinced that the design of the clutch linkage, coupled with some amount of 'feedback' into the clutch linkage from engine torque, causes the shudder. I can now start out at 1,000 rpm, with just a touch of throttle, without stalling the engine.

    On another clutch note, last winter, I BADLY smoked the clutch while backing up my snowmobile trailer in deep snow. For the next several weeks, I had a slipping clutch. Here's the good part: the clutch finally wore back to 'good'. It doesn't slip anymore!

    I'm looking forward to the NEXT 70,000 miles - I love this car!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Thanks for sharing the experience.

    Another option is a spray lithium grease. I lube pedals when I do the 30k service, but then I'm a bit nuts that way.

    -juice
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Well, went to the dealer this morning complaining of rotor problems. I guess my luck had to run out sooner or later. They wanted to resurface my front and the replace the back (they were resurfaced already). Only, they said that Subaru wouldn't pay for it this time (44K miles). The dealer said they would absorb the $$ between resurfacing the rear and installing the new rotors. $250 was the final tally. I basically said no thank you, and decided I would replace the rotors with aftermarket myself during the summer. Oh well. They were very nice about it and tried to work with me. Bought a fuel filter while I was there.

    Greg

    P.S. Stayed away from the new cars. All I would need to do is start getting jazzed about the new Subarus and start getting myself in trouble.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    Look on the bottom side of your rocker panel and see if you have any plastic or rubber plugs. If so, pull them/it and stand back for some water to rush out. There are usually little slits that are always open on the inboard surface of the rockers that allow normal drainage to occur. Living in an area with a lot of pine needles or other things that can drop on the car can plug these up. Then, the rockers fill and if the water level gets high enough it can back up through other internal vents or crevices to wet your carpets. Or the stop/start flow back and forth of driving can force water into the interior. Once drained, take a very bright light and a thin nail or similar to unplug those little slit drains mentioned in a previous post. Aftermarket rustproofing or a lot of muddy road driving can also plug them.

    IdahoDoug
  • sugardogsugardog Member Posts: 41
    I am driving a 99 Outback 5speed.
    I want to change the plugs.
    They are not easy to get to.
    Has anyone out there changed plugs on the boxer
    engine? If so, is there a trick to getting them
    out or do I have to remove a bunch of stuff,
    battery etc to get them out?
    I love the boxer engine, but those plugs are
    really buried.
    The manual says 5yr 60,000 mile replacement.
    My car has 4yr 37,000 miles so I can wait awhile.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    I don't have any tricky socket extensions or the like and was able to pull all 4 of mine and replace in about 15 minutes. For the left side, I had to remove a reservoir (washer fluid?), but when you actually start removing the plugs you'll see there is enough room to swing the ratchet. Three tips: Use duct tape to cover the reservoir tubes (will spill some), get a can of copper based anti-sieze and put some on the new threads, and place each old plug on the bench so you can tell where each came from. This last is so that if you pull one and it's different from the others (clean, rusty, etc) you know positively which cylinder it came out of and can take corrective action. Obviously you won't know if they're all identical until they're all out and if you mixed them up, you're hosed. Since you have the engine that eats head gaskets, this would be very important to do.

    IdahoDoug
  • dcabdcab Member Posts: 101
    "Since you have the engine that eats head gaskets, this would be very important to do."

    I've got a 1997 Outback with the same "engine that eats head gaskets." What should I look for on the plugs and what corrective action could be taken?
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    An engine with a head gasket leaking coolant into one or more cylinders is easy to identify from the spark plugs. The coolant/water will clean the plug. And I mean clean - not a subtle "Hmm, this one looks slightly cleaner, but is that what Doug was talking about...?" The plug will be practically sterilized and there will be no question in your mind if you have this when comparing it to the other plugs.

    If the car is not run regularly, you might also find some actual rust on the sparkplug portion that's inside the cylinder (rust on the portion outside of the cylinder would not be an issue).

    One other tip I forgot above would be to pick up a small tube of dielectric (does not transmit electricity) grease and put some in the rubber spark plug boots. You'll thank yourself for this and the anti-sieze paste when the next sparkplug change goes so smoothly you'll feel like using the extra time to change the tranny fluid...

    IdahoDoug
  • sugardogsugardog Member Posts: 41
    Thanks idahodoug.
    BTW, do I need a special tool to get the plug
    wires off? After removing the WW tank, I can get
    hold of the wire cap, but hard as I pull, they
    won't come off. Am I just too weak?
    Since they don't really need replaced yet, I don't want to break anything, rather wait another
    year if I am going to break something.
    Click and clack says, even with platinum plugs, they recommend pulling them out every 30,000 miles so they dont get 'frozen' inplace so you can't ever get them out.
    I never let a car go more than 30,000 on a set of plugs, even platinum, seems like too long, but in this case, I think I will wait another year.
  • awdnewbieawdnewbie Member Posts: 9
    Hello,

    Does anybody know the torque value for the lug nuts on a 02 LL Bean. Cant fine info in owners book. Thanks.

    Mario
  • tfoshbonetfoshbone Member Posts: 18
    I was on wrong page getting advice for problems with newly acquired 99 obw 57,xxx mi. But now that I'm here What engine eats head gaskets. Also I bought my ob in salt lake 5,xxx in elevation but live in tulsa ok. 500' in elevation is there any tuning I can do or does the computer do it all. as always any help is appreciated Thanks T
  • subearusubearu Member Posts: 3,613
    lug nut torque should be about 70 ft/lbs or so.

    -Brian
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    They won't be any easier to get off next year. I'd buy a set of plug wires to have on hand if these break off and do it now. If you have a friendly mechanic, they have a nice little tool that reaches way down and pulls the boots off. Drive it in with the WW out of they way for him, slip him a $5 and ask him to pop them loose for you.

    I agree with K&K on this one - get them out of there and use the anti sieze and special grease I mentioned upon reinstall.

    IdahoDoug
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    After an episode behind a semi trailer on a dusty road on my last roadtrip, the front of the hood around the grille and lights has been left with many small stonechips.

    It appears that the chips are only in the clearcoat, but are slightly greyish in colour. Is this because of the damage to the clearcoat?

    What products would you recommend to hide the chips? Will waxing help at all?

    It is definately not something for touch-up paint.

    Thanks for your suggestions.

    BTW, it is dark green
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    That is why both of my new cars have acrylic hood deflectors! Tired of all of the paint damage on the header panel / hood.

    At the touch-up paint section of some auto parts stores you can buy clear coat in the same little brush bottles. Not a great solution, but better than applying timberline green which will really stand out. My wife "flexed" the fender on our Honda, cracking the clearcoat in a few little spots. It does indeed look hazy grey where damaged. I have yet to do anything with it myself.

    Steve
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