Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Rob-
    IIRC, I was told [SoA] that 2 tea cup overfill should not yield any side effects.

    -Dave
  • andrewkandrewk Member Posts: 59
    Are there that many problems with the Legacy? I was surprised to see this thread and wondering if I should dig through all 1500+ posts to be on the lookout for problems. I just bought a new '03 Legacy SE Wagon a couple of weeks ago, now I'm a bit concerned.
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I don't think you need to be concerned. My OB has had 2 issues - a blown head gasket, which is not good, but which has been corrected I believe. The second has been warped rotors - something that seems limited to OBs and an issue with all cars today due to the harder material pads. You are also reading posts from OCDers that are very detail oriented. In addition, most people come to sites like these to complain so you see a higher percentage here than on the street. Relax, your Subaru will take care of you.

    Greg
  • ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    Knocking on wood here, but I have a 2001 Outback base wagon with auto at 44,000 miles and I have had "0" real problems with the car ... it continues to be the best car I have ever owned in my life
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    2000 Legacy L, 68k miles, no problems. Still have original brake pads and no warped rotors.

    You might want to torque the lug bolts on your wheels to spec. It's felt that overtorqued lug bolts cause warped rotors.

    Welcome to the family and enjoy your new Subie!

    Jim
  • en5en5 Member Posts: 9
    I have a 2000 Legacy L wagon with 38000km and manual tranny. I've been having couple of problems with it:
    1. Clutch chatter/shudder - it only chatters in the morning for the first couple of shifts and sometimes even after the car is warm, first time the dealer replaced the clutch fluid to get rid of the bubbles in the clutch oil, second time they just told me "it's normal, they all do that", but I've had 5 cars with manual transmission before and never had this problem so to me this is not normal. Is it going to get worse with time? how long will the clutch last like this? Is Subaru going to do anything about this?
    2. Steering wheel vibration - it comes and goes as I drive on highway, curves in the road and lane changes seem to affect it. I replaced one tire, then I balanced all of my wheels twice, then I tried two other different wheel/tire sets ( which I know were good ), no change, then the dealer replaced the front drive shafts which helped for 2-3 months then it came back.
    Just recently the dealer did 4 wheel alignment, it was better for 1-2 days now it's back. I had couple of different mechanics/shops look at this problem and noone seem to be able to help me. I don't know what to do now, I've been fighting with this problem for over 2 years. I know two other legacy owners with the same problem, is this typical of this car? what else can I do?
    3. Burning rubber smell - This smell comes through the vents and is most noticable when it's wet outside, it's not the undercoating burning, dealer confirmed that. Funny thing is that when I had a loaner a 2003 Forester, it had the same smell. Where is it coming from?
    My bumper to bumper warranty runs out at the end of the month so I would appreciate any help, thanks.
  • outbikeoutbike Member Posts: 6
    Thanks to all who replied concerning my overfill of oil at Valvoline Quick change.

    I had the techs drain the engine and refill. This time, I had them put in 4 qts and then take a reading - the dip stick is right at the "F" mark. Granted, there is some oil in the filter, but I am beginning to think that the 4.7qts specified in the owners manual may be a touch high. From here on I think I will have them fill to 4 qts, then take a reading, and then add if necessary.

    Cheers,
    Outbike
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    To answer questions you raise here and on the Subaru Problems page (why two separate boards? Surely both are the same)

    1. Clutch judder is an infuriating characteristic of Subarus. It is worst on cold damp mornings and is supposedly the result of non-asbestos clutch facings taking up moisture on cool nights. It is the biggest hassle of Subaru ownership and puts even the most enthusiastic of fans into the grumps. Alternative solutions including moving to Alice Springs (okay, I'll allow Arizona for you although this may be a bit far from Canada) or buying an auto next time have been considered. Replacing the clutch appears to do nothing

    2. Noise from front suspension on cornering probably means that the sway bar bushes are binding. Ask your dealer to remove and lubricate. When this happened to me, it was infuriating.

    3. Steering wheel vibration may be tyre pressure baing off left to Right. For some reason, Subarus are extraordinarily sensitive to inequalities in pressure (even one pound pressure difference) and all sorts of wierd behc=vaiour manifest themselves. Get a good quality tyre gauge and check pressures regularly

    Cheers

    Graham
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    We are a verbos group of fanatics with way too much time on our hands. We love to wax philosophic every time our Subi's do anything the least bit quirky. And as quirky is part of the brands basic character, there is always something interesting to discuss (and we wouldn't have it any other way....)!
    ;-)

    Steve
  • andrewkandrewk Member Posts: 59
    Thanks guys for the reassurances! In the couple weeks since I bought this Legacy for my wife, I have actually grown passionate about it. I go out almost every night for a pleasure drive. I wish there were more winding roads where I live. When I saw the the title of this thread, I got a big 'ole lump in my throat; all for not though. Thanks again!
  • leo2633leo2633 Member Posts: 589
    Regarding the replacement of Subaru clutches: I had a problem with chattering ("judder", in Subaru jargon) on my 2001 Forester almost from the start. It was replaced at about 29K miles, and the problem soon returned. It was again replaced around 57K, with the new parts specified in Subaru's TSB (or whatever), and so far seems to be fine. My fingers are crossed as I write this!

    My wife's 2002 Outback suffered the same problem, and had the new clutch parts installed at 15K miles. Her 2003 Outback, which replaced the '02, now has about 6K miles, and exhibits the chattering situation. I checked with the dealer and found that the new parts were incorporated into production in early 2003. Unfortunately, our VIN # is within the last 20,000 or so units with the old parts, so I'll be taking it in for a replacement (with the new parts) soon.

    Given all this, you'd think we'd have sworn off Subaru manual transmissions by now. Nope. We still prefer the responsiveness of the 5 speeds to the automatics we test drove before buying each of our Subies. Like Steve said, it's part of the quirkiness we learn to live with. And, I must say that in my case, they are fantastic vehicles, other than this odd characteristic.

    Len
  • francophilefrancophile Member Posts: 667
    My '00 Legacy GT still has it occasionally. I too notice it in wet weather, and I also notice it when I drive in snow.

    I don't really know what the cause is, but here's my theory: it is undercoating burning off.

    Now here's my explanation: when the car was new I would get that smell on a fairly regular basis; the dealer, and lots of people on this and other boards, came to a consensus that it was caused by the heating/melting away of the cosmolene-like goo Subaru sprays on the undersides of the vehicles to prevent rust and protect the vehicle from corrosive elements. Overspray on exhaust and other components would heat up, stink up the joint, and then be gone.

    So why do I still smell it, and why only in wet/snowy weather? Because that is the only time my center differential really gets used, and therefore that is the only time it gets hot enough to get the cosmolene goo on/near it up to its 'stink point'.

    So that's my theory. In any event I don't let the smell bother me too much. Anyone else have ideas?

    Cheers,
    -wdb
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    Actually, I buy that explanation. Never made sense to me that the water/snow was doing something. It's the AWD doing its job.

    Since it has proven to be a reliable smell (every time it is driven in heavy rain/snow), I actually find some comfort when it appears. Now I can add in that the car's AWD is doing its job! Perfect!

    The last of my Subaru mysteries solved!

    Ralph
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I get that similar smell on my trooper in the snow/rain, bbut only the winter, which leads me to believe it's the road salt being burned not the transfer case/awd unit.

    -mike
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    We get the burning smell on our 00 Outback. Usually in the rain or snow and only after long drives. Never been a problem though with 71,000 miles and counting.
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    If you're getting the smell in the rain, then you can pretty much rule out the center diff getting warm from use. No sube made has the power to routinely spin tires in the rain while driving around. Not to mention that a constant spray/splashing under the vehicle would make the surface of under vehicle components FAR cooler on a rainy/snowy day than a typical sunny/dry day. Next?...

    IdahoDoug
  • mjansen1mjansen1 Member Posts: 46
    My security light is repeatedly blinking twice whenever the car is off and I haven't even locked it/set the alarm. Plus when I do lock it, the park lights don't flash anymore. Did my child turn something off playing with the keys or is security on the blitz and it is trying to tell me?
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    When I brought my 02 in for a burning smell, the dealer replaced the front axle seals as a fix. I haven't noticed the smell since (2/02). Maybe I was having a different burning smell issue??

    Jon
  • unhappyruunhappyru Member Posts: 4
    I have read with interest a few 2002 notes regarding hood deflectors blowing off. With my 2000 Subaru Outback, I have now had 2 blow off, the last one causing serious damage to my hood/windshield - thankfully in both cases no major accidents resulted. I have taken the car to 2 Subaru dealerships and they both think NOTHING of it, and have the audacity to say "kids play with them and knock them loose - it's not our problem." Any suggestions? Both incidents could have caused serious accidents, and I think Subaru owners should be alerted to this problem.
  • unhappyruunhappyru Member Posts: 4
    On another issue, I just drove my 2000 Outback (67,000 mi) on a six hour trip - about the second hour into the trip travelling over 65 mph a horribly loud whining noise started up - sounding as if it were coming from the passenger side. Sometimes it sounded as if it was a "flapping whine" and the noise would come on & off depending upon the speed and it seems, the amount of air resistance against the car. No warning lights. Anyone else have this problem? I am not looking forward to hundreds of dollars of exploration time.
  • unhappyruunhappyru Member Posts: 4
    While I am hot on my list of problems this week with my 2000 Outback LTD, has anyone had problems with the CD player getting stuck or not spitting out cds or skipping over cds? This has happened several times now and I am afraid to use the multi-disk player. I am not sure I should address this problem with any of my local dealerships, since I have nothing good to say about their service. Suggestions? Thanks!
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    Funny that you mention about hood deflectors. It's a topic that has only featured three times in the previous 1596 posts and all positive.

    The other complaints mentioned are also unusual.

    Not sure why but could it suggest that you are about to have three Little Billy Goats walk over your bridge.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    mjansen1 Jun 23, 2003 10:24pm

    Mike-
    Sounds like you have inadvertantly put the system into valet mode.

    Try opening the driver's side door, depress and hold the "UNLOCK/DISARM button for 2+ sec. That should take it out of valet mode, if you system is the same.. Otherwise, see your owner's manual. :D

    -Dave
  • babaorileybabaoriley Member Posts: 74
    Initial history: my 00 OB started hesitating and shuddering upon hard acceleration only, and now and then a skip or two at idle. CE light came on and stayed on. 44K miles.

    Took it to dealer. They started taking out plugs and found (can't recall # right now, but first plug on left side on engine) a badly fouled plug. None of the other plugs showed any problems, so tech. replaced spark plug wire. CE light stayed on, so tech. replaced coil for that cylinder. CE light went out and stayed out. All symptoms gone. Car now runs great again.

    That's the good news. Now the bad news: $378 for fix, $198 for labor. I complained about the 2 hour labor charge. I changed my plugs at 30K and it took much less than an hour. I told service mgr I would expect them to be able to pull all plugs, diagnose, and replace bad parts in about the same time, especially since the plug wire and coil are so easy to replace. He took $50 off the labor total which made me happier. I also asked if this was a warranty item, but was told plugs, wires, coil etc. were tune-up items and not major powertrain items.

    Also, the routine the service dept. went through to diagnose the problem is almost exactly what I would have done on any of my previous cars that showed those same symptoms. I was scared away by the CE light and the fact that this is the first car I've bought new.

    Don't be fooled. If you've worked on cars in the past, or experience this problem yourself, save some money and check the spark plugs first and work back from there. Plugs do tell a lot about what's going on.

    Thanks for all who relayed their own experience.

    -Brett
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I posted my deflector failure (IIRC maybe under Gen Maintance & Repairs ?). Fortunately it did not come off as I found the cracked retainer during a routine inspection. The new design has added a center strap that requires grill removal to install.

    Steve
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I wonder if Karen has the revised design.

    If they still sell it as an accessory, they must be convinced that it's sturdy with the revision. Ask if the dealer will update yours for free. Or call 800-SUBARU3 and ask them to.

    -juice
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    I would also check to make sure the little rubber bumpons are on the inside of the deflector (there should be 4 or 5 of them). Without them, it might cause the defelctor to flex too much, causing a stress crack.

    On the CD player issue, I have noticed in times past that when using homemade CD's with stuck on labels, they sometimes get snagged.

    Jon
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I use CD-Rs all the time, and so I don't put labels on them. A permanent ink pen works great and you don't run that risk.

    -juice
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    Yeah, I learned my lesson on that a couple of years ago, when I first became "CD-Burner" savvy. I printed up a nice fancy label only to have the thing get jammed in my old in-dash player. Now, it's strictly markers.

    Jon
  • tfoshbonetfoshbone Member Posts: 18
    Ok you fanatics! I need tires, LOVE the michelin brand. I need wet dry traction medium performance and low noise. they're for a 99 ob legacy wagon. what are you all using? thanks T
  • unhappyruunhappyru Member Posts: 4
    I had no idea there was a revised design. I will ask about it at the dealer tomorrow.:) Thanks for your help. I suspect the CD player is tired as I use only store-bought cds in the player so they won't get stuck. As for this other noise, it'll be interesting to see if they think it is the roof rack starting to complain after 67,000 miles!!!:) Thanks to all who have responded. At least I can go in with new information - and a phone number to dial on the spot!
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    Tom:

    If you prefer Michelins, a couple of us here have switched to the Pilot Sport A/S and have been very happy with the increased traction and road handling, especially under wet/snow conditions.

    You might also want to check out the Energy MxV4 Plus - I believe they are purportedly 'quieter' than the PS A/S, at least according to the Michelin website. My PS A/S are markedly quieter than the original Wilderness tires.
    (2001 Outback)
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    Although pricey ($158. a pop installed), the Pilot Sport A/S tires are GREAT. Like riding on rails in the rain...

    Ralph
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    I've had these on my 01 Outback for the past few thousand miles and absolutely love them. The Dunlop SP Sport A2's I had previously were toast by 18K miles, and were extremely loud as they wore. The ride quality with the Michelins is superb, and they are very quiet on the highway. Handling feels secure, even in snow, but I can't vouch for "high-performance" situations. At a track, there are likely better tires, but around town the MXV4's are really nice. I'd get them again without hesitating.

    Brian
  • ohsubieohsubie Member Posts: 8
    I replaced the OEM tires on my 2001 with the Nokian WR. Hold the road like suction cups and are quite. The only tire I'll every use. All four for just over $600. It included road hazard, free rotation and balance, and an alinement. Never put new tires on with out an alinement.
  • uffdaoleuffdaole Member Posts: 37
    Recently replaced original Michelns on 98OB with Cooper Lifeliner SLE touring. FANTASTIC. Made it a different vehicle, quiet ride, great handling. Checked many sites and consumer surveys and seemed best by far. Approx $380 out the door price.
  • tfoshbonetfoshbone Member Posts: 18
    thanks for the responses. mxv4' sound good. The pilots I know are great because I used them on my old infinity. Tread life wasn't very long however. Tire rack made Harmony's sound good . I'm going to dig deeper. Keep info. flowing and Thanks to all. T.
  • otis123otis123 Member Posts: 439
    yeah...hoping the Pilots go to 30K. Anything less and I'll look for cheaper alternatives next round...

    Ralph
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    I just installed these on my Sienna. Extremely quiet and smooth. Very happy with them so far. However, they are an all season tire and not H rated so the handling around turns is a little squishy.

    Greg
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Well, the CEL went on last night as my wife was driving back from shopping. Did the usual - checked the gas cap, oil, etc. Filled it up this morning and will watch it. Have an apptmt with Subaru Tuesday. It is not covered under the powertrain warranty according to my dealer unless it is the cat converter.

    Greg
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    at least for now. Ok, washed the car sunday (and washed the gas filler area), and filled up the car. Yesterday, with 1/4 tank left the light went on. When my wife came home, I opened and closed the fuel filler cap. Did kinda come off easier than usual. The temp the last few days has been ~100F. Anyway, filled it up again this morning. At lunch drove to the store with the light on. Started the car after coming out of the store and no light since then.

    Greg
  • rob999rob999 Member Posts: 233
    Greg,

    I had an intermittent on/off CEL a couple months ago. Double-checked the gas cap at each refill but inevitably it would come on. Took it to the dealer and the OBDII indicated the oxygen sensor had gone kaput. Replaced under warranty. Service order read "rear O2 sensor".

    Maybe take it to AutoZone for a free diagnostic.
  • tfoshbonetfoshbone Member Posts: 18
    After deliberating and researching I chose the michelen harmonys. 300mi. later good tire, quiet(relatively), grippy on dry and wet. Seems to add a little body roll in hard cornering and maybe a little extra under steer. but great for family wagon driving. thanks for all your help. T
  • tfoshbonetfoshbone Member Posts: 18
    On the body roll I think I'm actually pushing a LOT harder in corners than before. On alignment is it the awd that makes these cars drift to the left? Possibly because of my fat butt.? Had it in and it's on the money. (The alignment that is not my butt).
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    One thing that impressed me about my 2000 Subie is that it tracked absolutely straight and still does 70k miles later. It's had one alignment when I replaced the tires and maybe one other alignment (don't remember anymore).

    I'm sure your tire pressures are correct so it could be the alignment spec (Subaru's) is too broad.

    Jim
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    I went to pick up a swing set this weekend, and planned on putting it in the back of my wagon. When I went to pull the rear seat bottom cushion up, no pull tab. The tab must have slipped back down under the bottom seat cushion. Now I can't unlock the seat cushion to rotate it forward. Is there any other way to unlock the seat bottom, or can I easily remove the seat bottom some other way?

    Thanks for any suggestions.

    Jon
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Jon-
    Looks like you'll have to do what we all have to do when that happens :)
    that's, stick your hand between the back rest and bottom of the seat and feel/search for that pull tab. It'll be attached to the [~center of] seat bottom.

    -Dave
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    Dave: Thanks for the response. I've been fishin around for that tab since yesterday, but I just can't seem to find it. It's pretty tight under there, and I can't get my hand in far enough. I think I'm going to try unbolting the seat bottom from its hinges, then maybe I can access it from the front of the seat bottom. I'll wait and see if anyone else has any other suggestions first.

    Jon
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Jon-
    It's a shame I don't have my OB, but I do have the OBS which I'll take a look.
    The pull tab shouldn't be deep under the seat. Should be in the vacinity of the edge.

    Stay tuned :)

    -Dave
  • hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Jon-
    OK, pull all the seat belts away from the center. Stick your hands behind the seat bottom from the passenger side [not too far in] at the edge. Run your hand across towards the center. Your hand will be stopped by the pull tab. Feel for the strap. If none, then it may have snapped off, so you'll have to feel for the square-like rocker to release.

    Happy hunting :D

    -Dave
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