Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

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Comments

  • ftdad1ftdad1 Member Posts: 29
    in the strict meaning of the word but that is what the service manager of the dealership called it. $4k if it did not need new heads 5k if it did. That included new clutch and throw bearings also.
  • sebberrysebberry Member Posts: 148
    I'm sorry to hear about the engine failure you have experienced with your Subaru. Unfortunately, even the best of products have their problems, and Subaru is no exception. When you consider the number of components that make up an engine, and all the stress they are put through on a daily basis, it is a wonder why there aren't more failures. I can assure you that Subaru does work hard at ensuring product quality, and failures such as the one you have had are rare.

    Now, I'm sure that we could all agree that it would be nice to have a warranty the length of Kia's on our Subaru's, but that will probabally not happen.

    However, if the warranty is all you want, then be prepared to take advantage of that service a little too often, and have many periods where you are without your car. (But at least is is under warranty, right?)

    When you consider that Honda does not offer roadside assistance for flat tires, keys locked in car, etc... it is pretty calming to know you get this with Subaru.

    I myself am on my second Subaru (The first one went out of style, and I wanted a new one. I still see the old one around town once in a while) and can guarantee that I will move onto a third and very likely a fourth.

    A funny thing happens when we buy highly rated products. We become extremely frustrated when things go wrong. If you are parepared to have a lot of things go wrong with a Kia, then by all means buy one. Subaru has built a reputation as one of the better manufacturer's for quality and reliability, but even the best can have problems.

    If you are prepared to take your losses and "Junk" the car, I would suggest that you see if the dealer may want to accept it for a trade in on a new Subaru. If not, a scrapyard probabally would make you an offer.

    I don't know how well the car has been for you in the past, but I am sure you have enjoyed it, and guess that you will enjoy a new Subaru. My experience with a 2003 Outback is that the quality of workmanship, build and reliability has increased, as too have refinement and overall feel. You owe it to yourself to take one for a test drive, even if the Kia delearship next door is offering a zillion mile warranty.
  • ftdad1ftdad1 Member Posts: 29
    I appreciate have the benefit of others point of view. Even though I agree with most of what you said I still have to question why if such a thing is so rare why not cover offer to cover some of the cost to keep a loyal customer (this is my 4th Subaru, 1st purchased new). It is not this one incident, it was the water pump that went bad in the first month, paint chipped off around the scoop on the hood in first month, oil seals leaking, which made the clutch start to slip, a wheel bearing noise that the dealership cant hear, the ticking noise in the engine from day one. I justifyed all that as "stuff Breaks" but when you are sitting on the side of the road with your family you start to wonder. I think you might question your next purchase if the same happened to you?

     I will test drive a Subaru, but I will have to factor in the cost of extended warrrenty in the orginal purchase price ,this time.
  • stinkynelsonstinkynelson Member Posts: 13
    Brian/Juice,

    I'm a little nervous about my clutch shuddering problem - more specifically, I don't want the dealer to get away with a quick fix when they should be replacing the whole clutch. The guy on the phone told me they would replace the flywheel to addrees it.

    Is there a specific TSB I can reference to make sure they and I are on the same page?

    I'm supposed to take the car to them tomorrow for the repair.

    Thanks!
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    If nothing else, you should open a case with SoA (1-800-Subaru3). If the car is still at the dealership, they might be able to offer some assistance. It is amazing how far these folks bend over backwards to help out, as many on this board can attest to. Remember to maintain a positive attitude - it goes a long way!!!

    Steve
  • erics6erics6 Member Posts: 684
    You might want to consider a recycling (junk yard) engine. Cost should be substancially less.

    I had a lot of problems with my 97. Most caused by poor dealership service. My 2000 has been better, but it too has had its fair share of problems. I have to give SOA credit though. They've stood behind their products, unlike my past experience with a Nissan Pathfinder lemon.

    I do think Subaru is going to have to expand its basic warranty soon to 4/50, since many other companies are moving to this. BTW, Kia is near the bottom in long term quality even with a 10/100 warranty.
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    see a case for you in our database. Why don't you give our Reps. a call and see if we can offer some help?

    Throwing a rod is an unusual failure. You may want to provide the dealer and our Rep. with a copy of the maintenance history on the vehicle. It will help them assess the cause of the failure.

    I'm sure we can try to do something for you.

    Thanks.

    Patti
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    I don't have a copy of the exact TSB on that clutch repair, but it's floating around these boards somewhere. Email me if you can't find it. My dealer showed me a copy of the TSB in December when I had the car fixed and it matched the one I saw online. The parts list includes all the clutch parts (flywheel, clutch cover, disc, etc). You should not have to pay for it if there's evidence that it's been shuddering for any length of time before the warranty expired. My paper trail of complaints started when the car was 3000 miles old, and took 2 years of constant begging for a fix to arrive. Good luck! It's a long road, but worth it.

    Brian
  • montreal1montreal1 Member Posts: 12
    The TSB original number (dated 15 January 03) is 03-51-02. I think there is a recent revision (new part numbers) to this TSB.

    I too need to have done on my 2.5RS 2002. Problem is now getting worse and worse (22000 km).

    Michel
  • stinkynelsonstinkynelson Member Posts: 13
    Thank you (Brian/Juice/Michel) so much. I just dropped it off and they gave me a pretty hard time when I suggested that I'm not liable for the repair costs.

     I will call them back with this TSB and see what they say. I took the car into them at 12K miles complaining of this clutch behavior so, it's on record.

    Thanks again!!
  • darandalldarandall Member Posts: 57
    I have a 2000 Outback wagon with 68,000 miles on it. Recently, the CEL has come on, and the car has started overheating intermittently. The needle goes up to the "H" marker and then comes back down, then goes halfway up to the "H", comes back down, goes almost into the red zone, comes back down, and then is fine for a while. Use of the AC seems to help create the problem, and it has been hot and humid here in the Boston area. My regular mechanic couldn't fin anything wrong - coolant was ok, fan was working etc. The CEL has now gone off, and the car appears to be ok, but I don't want to be driving and have the little needle bump against the red again. It went to the Subaru dealer today, so I'll see what they have to say. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated.
  • ftdad1ftdad1 Member Posts: 29
    I think if Kia has sucsuss selling their products it will force other makers to match there warranty. Remember when Roadside assitince was rare? now almost all cars have it. Some company are up to 7/70 on their warranties, but have a deductible at that length. With Subaru's legendary reliability I would think they would be one of the first to lengthen the warranty. If the reliability of Subarus is slipping, it would be a logical way for the company to improve its image. At might be that the availability of information (sites like this and others)creates a heightened awhereness to problems. As for myself I had more trouble free miles with my used 84 Subaru wagon (I bought it at 90,000 and sold it at 150,000) then with my new 97 Outback.
  • ftdad1ftdad1 Member Posts: 29
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    Could be your thermostat is sticking. I would have the coolant replaced and the thermostat replaced. The dealer should also do a pressure test of the system. Another problem could be the water pump, although it should last longer than 68K. If it turns out to be the water pump and the dealer replaces it, have them do your timing belt and oil pump o-ring also while they are in there. You might want to give Subaru a call at 800-Subaru3 to see if they can help.

    Greg
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, but throwing a rod through a block is a rarity, first ever on Edmunds.com Subaru Crew threads.

    What I would suggest is looking for a rebuilt engine, not a new one. Try to find a wrecked car with an intact powertrain and transplant it, or pay someone to.

    This junk yard specializes in Subaru:

    http://www.fsautoparts.com/

    A long warranty is only half the equation. Hondas are reliable but they offer a pathetic 3/36 warranty with no roadside assistance. Kias have a great warranty but an unproven reliability record (read: dismal).

    Subaru offers, IMO, a good balance of the two. You want both? So do I, that's why I bought a Subaru Gold warranty. I get 7/100 with 0 deductible bumper-to-bumper coverage, plus roadside assistance, plus better resale down the road. Add to that free towing coverage, guaranteed loaner or rental reimbursement, etc yada yada yada.

    Randall: I suspect the water pump is beginning to fail, from your description. At that age, just change it, some people do it every 60k anyway. Have your belts and the O-ring seal done at the same time if they're not already.

    -juice

    PS I've already made use of the service loaner, they really roll out the red carpet for Subaru Gold customers. My loaner was not an econobox, either - we got a brand new minivan.
  • ftdad1ftdad1 Member Posts: 29
    Thanks for the info. I have called the 800-Subaru3 number and received a case #. The dealership is faxing the estimate and I will forward it w/ repair history to SOA for consideration.

    For what it is worth, the Rep. said he doesn't know who you are and said it was unlikely that you work for Subaru.
  • ftdad1ftdad1 Member Posts: 29
    Thanks for the link! How much did the Gold package cost?
  • ffsteveffsteve Member Posts: 243
    I had similar experience with another car. The culprit was the radiator, which had become partially blocked. Cooling capacity was fine at speed, but couldn't keep up when stopped at idle, or climbing hills. Use of A/C made problem worse by increasing load on cooling system.

    Eventually a head gasket failed, engine lost coolant, and then died. Twice.

    Steve
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I just sent a note to the Rep. you worked with (Steve). Since I just completed his training, I'm surprised by his response, but, considering I teach that participation on the internet is not permitted by the company, I guess he got confused. Anyway, you should hear from him soon.

    Thanks!

    Patti
  • nygregnygreg Member Posts: 1,936
    who Patti is???? Is he kidding?? I think I need to give this guy a call. ;-)

    Greg
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    At least you train guys with Subaru names :-)

    Steve, Host
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Uh-oh, Patti might just open up a can of ... whoops this is a family site, can't use that language!

    Subaru Gold prices vary a lot, you should shop it around. Someone in the Outback thread got a 7/70 for $700 or so (all 7s, easy to remember!), and that's the best deal I've seen around here.

    -juice
  • jlemolejlemole Member Posts: 345
    I just happened to be gathering prices on the Gold warranty. The dealer I bought from quoted me $1000 for a 5/100k with $100 deductible. The dealer where I have service done quoted me almost $1500 for the same deal. I'm gonna shop around some more, but I'm also interested in hearing what others have paid.

    Jon

    P.S. I hope nobody minds if I cross-post this over in the regular legacy/outback thread.
  • hashmanhashman Member Posts: 33
    Is there a difference between front and rear brake pads on a 00', 2.5L, Legacy OB?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I imagine there is, but I'm not sure. The front rotors are bigger, I'm pretty sure the pads would differ.

    Anyone have part numbers?

    -juice
  • stinkynelsonstinkynelson Member Posts: 13
    The dealer replaced all the clutch parts for no charge yesterday. I immediately notice more smooth driving in lower gears. This fall will be the real test of the shuddering.

    Thanks to all who helped me out!
  • bkaiser1bkaiser1 Member Posts: 464
    Glad to hear it got taken care of!! I felt the biggest sense of relief after getting mine done in December...2 years of wrangling that clutch was turning into a nightmare. Enjoy!

    Brian
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    I'm glad it got resolved. Hope you enjoy the smoother ride and start up!

    Patti
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I just had the rears replaced under warranty. For my '02 OBW (4 cyl auto), the rear pad kit number was 26696AE020. I assume that includes the pads and anti-rattle clips. Cannot help you on the fronts.

    Not 100% sure that everything is the same between the '00 (first of the new body) and the '02. Seem to remember that they increased the rotor size (and possibly the pads??) somewhere along the way??

    Steve
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Hmm well if you wanted a car that was warrantied to 100K why didn't you buy a Hyundai or an extended warranty? I own an Isuzu with a 100K powertrain warranty and bought the matching bumper to bumper coverage so that I don't have to worry about rods being thrown. These vehicles are mechanical devices and as such there will always be ones that break, period, end of story. I'm very sorry for your situation but IF Subaru does help you, count your blessings cause it's out of the goodness of their heart. I wouldn't expect a car company to warranty something that is 25K out of warranty!

    As for pads, the rears are much smaller than the fronts.

    -mike
  • jfljfl Member Posts: 1,399
    paisan is correct about the pads. The fronts are much bigger than the rears. My rear pads were worn to the replacement point. The fronts still had about 40% of the lining at 73k. (2000 Legacy L)

    I ordered my pads from 1stsubaruparts.com. It helps if you give them the VIN (serial number) of your car as it contains exact model information.

    Jim
  • tia13tia13 Member Posts: 5
    Hi,

    Need some thoughts/advice - even opinions ;)
    Symptoms: yesterday brake and battery light came on. Very intermittent; would stay on for a minute, off for 3, back on for a second, off for another second. Did not correlate with anything I did (brake, use wipers, radio, a/c, etc.)

    Called my Subaru dealer and he guessed it is alternator related and made an appointment for next Wed.

    Tonight: had to get a critter to the vet - didn't make it :( The lights were on almost immediately. I put on defroster and they went out (became hopeful). Radio died for a second, then OK, THEN tach needle died then skyrocketed, speedometer did same, I turned off everything but the headlights and turned around to go home. Then ALL the lights came on - ABS, Check Engine, Brakes, battery...I could tell I was losing power and getting ocassional spikes (PLEEEASE get me home OK!!). I ended up turning off my head lights in order to drive home. Was amazed at how much power I got and lost! I only put the lights on when I saw another car (and it's dark here in the sticks of NH).

    My questions: could it just be the belt or does it sound more serious. If it is a complete overhaul what can I expect to pay - ball park.

    Just a note - I am the second owner of this car, it was originally purchased at this dealer and it has gotten every required maintenance checkup, oil change etc. it's whole life. I have about 87,000 on it right now.
    Thanks for any help!

    tj
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    I believe was part of the recall. Not sure if it was done or not, but the signs you have are all that it's the alternator. Shouldn't be a very hard replacement. Heck you could do it yourself!

    -mike
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Just wanted update you on my '02 LL Bean rotor issue. In May I posted how, at 1k, the dealer replaced the front rotors but would only turn the rear rotors as they were "within spec" - anyway I decided to replace the rotors myself because I still felt a slight pulsation coming (esp. at hwy braking speeds). I bought Subie rear rotors and Brembo fronts (from Tire Rack).

    The rears went on fine and were identical except the part number - the last number is now a "2" instead of a "1" - I suspect they may have concluded the original rotors WERE prone to warping and upgraded specs or changed suppliers. Anyhow, got to the fronts and when I pulled them off, realized the Brembos were SMALLER! Tire Rack goofed and sent me rotors for a different Outback model. Turns out they don't make regular Brembos for the '02 Bean yet. Anyhow, the front rotors the dealer put on looked great at 15k, so I kept them on - I also noted that the front rotors had the "2" as the last part number (the "updated/improved" rotor???).

    Bottom line, no vibration in the braking at all - smooth as can be - very happy now!!! I wished that Subaru replaced the rear originally, but it gave me a good excuse to do some real work on the car and it always feels good to something on your own (especially if you don't break something else in the process! :-)
    Matt
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    Please call 1-800-SUBARU3 and see if your vehicle has an open alternator service campaign. Please have your VIN for the Rep. to look it up.

    If it is, the dealer will take care of it at no cost to you.

    I hope this helps!

    Patti
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    As I had posted above, I had brake work done under warranty last month also for rotor TV (thickness variation - probably the more correct term vs. 'warped'). Mine happened after sitting wet for a week. My guess is that the pad material absorbed water, and trapped in one spot against the rotors, did significant rusting. So deep that they had to be turned and the pads replaced to fix it. The pad imprint spot was deeply pitted, and the pulsing showed no signs of abaiting after a week of driving. New rotors would have been nice, but they lathed them and installed new pads.

    I am curious about all of those out there that have reported warped rotors - if anyone has looked at the rotor to see if it is a pad imprint issue?

    Steve
  • subaru_teamsubaru_team Member Posts: 1,676
    ah - the bane of my existance. FWIW and my .02 - there are "anti" rust materials that some manufacturers use, but, from what I've heard, they can decrease braking effectiveness.

    Resurfacing or replacement (based on thickness)is a matter for 3/36 as long as it's not from flooding, etc.

    Patti
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Just curious - would it crank again afterwards, or was the battery completely drained? I'll bet a stress test would show that it is badly depleted even if it seems OK.

    My guess is that the alternator intermittantly stopped outputing, or became a shorting load, wiping out (draining) or overpowering your battery in the process. When the alternator came on line, the car ran OK. When it dropped out (or shorted), the battery had little reserve left to run the engine's ignition system and the accessories (lights, etc.). You did the right thing to go into 'conservation mode' to limp home.

    As Patti said, you might be able to resolve this without cost.

    Steve
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Am I on to something here about localized rusting? Does SoA ever ask for these parts back for a post-mortem (root cause failure analysis)?

    Size-wise and ventilation they seem like they should do the job just fine. I find it hard to believe that so many are failing from overheating and warping as some seem to indicate.

    Steve
  • blackbeanblackbean Member Posts: 100
    Steve - I think because my car was a "leftover" '02, it may well have had some water exposure while sitting on the dealer lot for 6 months before I bought it (only had 100 miles at delivery).

    Yes - I DID have some signifigant pad imprints on the rear rotors when I removed them (but nothing on the front ones!). So this occurred to the rears in the intervening 14k since the were turned and th fronts replaced.

    My conclusion is that the rotor materials (or anti-rust coating as Patti suggested) were different for the OE parts put on the car at manufacture and have since been slightly changed (the fronts had NO pad imprints and they are all the orignal pads all the way around) because of the different part numbers I had on two sets of Subaru rear rotors.

    My guess (only slighty educated, mind you) is that the OE rotors were a slightly different composition, that the rears were slightly "off" in terms of uniform thickness, and that after turning, the thinner areas were more susceptible to heat under "panic" braking (e.g., the common rush hour 60-0 drill on the interstate) where the brakes pads were held against the rotor for a while after the full stop. I have since modified my braking (especially after hard braking - which I try to avoid at all times) so that I can immediately release the brakes before coming to a complete stop and feather the brakes (i.e., to let the car creep ahead) so that the pads are not welded to the rotors. It is a theory that needs some validation...so hopefully I wont't be posting in another 30k about installing another set of rotors if I am right!!! :-)

    Matt
  • snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    The rotors on my wife's 00 OB front rotors rusted out and cut a groove in the pads because the sliders froze and didn't properly contact the rotors. The Subaru "wear warranty" is only 12/12000 for 00 models and Subaru wouldn't cover the repair ($250). Subaru Customer service is looking into this because there's a question about the way the dealer handled the matter and why they didn't do something about the sliders at the 30000k service 3 mos before. The rotors on my 02 VDC "warped" almost overnight at 16000 and were resurfaced. Not a water problem as I understand it. I'll report what Subaru does with my wife's car and the dealer. Hope to not need to ask for Patti's help
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    I had followed all the rules, and was rewarded with excellent brake performance. Bedded them carefully when new, got off of them when stopped to keep from hot-transfer of materials. They worked smoothly, and the rotors looked right, with tiny little bits of transfered material. All was fine until last month (w/15k on the clock).

    I was going on vacation for a week, and washed/waxed the OBW before putting her in the garage. Moving the car was met with a severe shudder, so I 'worked' the brakes on a few short runs forwards and backwards to dry them out. A week later, I started and shifted into reverse. The brakes were frozen on! Rev'ed the engine, and she broke free. But the damage was done - a deep rust imprint.

    I picked up some garnet sand paper and was going to pull the rotors and block sand to see if I could save them myself. The hardware store isn't too far from the dealer, so I stopped by. The service writer seemed amused, and offered to do it under warranty, so I dropped it off the next morning.

    At work, I hobnobbed with the other 'car people', and nobody had ever experienced this - except a fellow Subaru owner! He parked his older GL after wet winter driving, and two weeks later suffered the same rotor imprinting. But to be fair, there is little chance he was running OEM pads or rotors, so there may me little connection.

    I seem to remember maybe a year or so ago somebody on these boards had something similar happen after parking at an airport for an extended stay. Anybody remember who?

    Steve
  • snowbeltersnowbelter Member Posts: 288
    Whenever I wash our cars, I make it a point to go around the block and brake heavily. I've always noticed that when the brakes are wet overnight in the garage, there's not "stuck" but there's always a little grinding when you first apply them the next day, which I've thought of as normal oxidation. I left my 02 in the airport garage this winter dripping from salty slush and things were fine. And my wife's 00 has been in our garage for a week and was fine. What happened with your car sounds like an anomaly.
  • dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    I had my '96 OBW parked at the airport after driving in an ice storm. It sat for 3 weeks during subsequent ice storms will I was enjoying the warm Hawaiian sun. When I returned, I put it in reverse and it wouldn't move. Put it in drive nothing. Put it in reverse again and gave it more gas, bam, the brakes "popped" free. I don't recall noticing any abnormal braking action following the incident but I did later replace the front and back rotors due to pulstation. Both back rotors had high spots (outlines of the brake pads permanently imbedded in them).

    DaveM
  • ebony5ebony5 Member Posts: 142
    The light went on after stopping for gas thoughI did not engage the parking brake. I am currenly snowbound in the Catskills and hope to return home to NYC tomorrow or Tues. weather permitting. I will check the brake fluid tomorrow. Is this a hazardous situation since I want to drive home and then take my '96 OBW into Subaru for servicing. Is there anything else I should either look for or do, and is it OK to drive home. Thanks
  • grahampetersgrahampeters Member Posts: 1,786
    G'day

    I suffered something similar on my Mercedes some years ago. Drove home through freezing rain behind an ice gritter, in England. Then left the car parked for three weeks. Although the brakes had been hot when parked, the discs rusted over everywehere except under the pads. Needed new discs and pads all around - not a cheap experience for a Mercedes.

    Cheers

    Graham
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Dave's experience roughly parallels mine. In metalurgical terms, a sort of 'cold weld' between pad material and rotor, leaving permanent damage.

    Graham's experience is sort of the 'mirror image' - rust everywhere except under the pad.

    Steve
  • idahodougidahodoug Member Posts: 537
    The brake pad marks on a rotor is perfectly normal as anyone who's worked on brakes will attest. Take a look at nearly any car's rotors and you'll see faint outlines of the pad at various spots on the rotor.

    What's not normal is brake pads that are not properly retracting away from the rotor, but remaining firmly against it while parked. I'd speculate the real problems here are not properly lubed slider pins (should be done when pads are installed and is often skipped by mechanics), or caliper pistons getting slight corrosion on their outer surfaces (typical symptom of brake fluid not being bled/changed properly - annually in my opinion).

    A bit of rust on the rotors is similarly normal for a car sitting a while. Walk through a new car lot and you'll see what I mean. Basically, you've got raw uncoated steel rotors exposed to the elements. But a couple brake applications act just like a machining and the surface will get bright and polished again. There are exceptions to this, but that is how brakes were designed to operate in their environment.

    The small ridges that make the outline of the pads on the rotors will usually be polished off similarly, leaving faint traces as the rust action slightly pitted the rotor along those edges until wear eliminates even these marks.

    So, be sure your slider pins are properly attended to at service (removed, cleaned and lubed if called for - some are dry design), and get that brake fluid changed out annually - especially in cold climates w/salt.

    IdahoDoug
  • fibber2fibber2 Member Posts: 3,786
    Agree - some surface oxidation is normal. And within a few miles, it should be scrubbed off. My OBW is an '02 w/16k miles on it. Both rears did this. The damage was deep into the cast iron, and the pulsation excessive. Nothing like it has ever happened to me before, and it was clear that it wasn't going to work itself out. I lost a fair amount of material to correct the problem (and got new pads).

    There may indeed be an underlying cause that will show itself again. Along with the garnet paper, I bought a new can of Brake Klean and a tube of high temp slider and pin grease, but then turned it over to the dealer to service.

    Steve
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wow, my SVX just sat for 6 weeks w/o moving and we've had rain every day for most of it. No brake binding problems on it. The rotors had lots of surface rust, but other than that nothing. Maybe they aren't retracting fully?

    -mike
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