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Comments
Now, I'm sure that we could all agree that it would be nice to have a warranty the length of Kia's on our Subaru's, but that will probabally not happen.
However, if the warranty is all you want, then be prepared to take advantage of that service a little too often, and have many periods where you are without your car. (But at least is is under warranty, right?)
When you consider that Honda does not offer roadside assistance for flat tires, keys locked in car, etc... it is pretty calming to know you get this with Subaru.
I myself am on my second Subaru (The first one went out of style, and I wanted a new one. I still see the old one around town once in a while) and can guarantee that I will move onto a third and very likely a fourth.
A funny thing happens when we buy highly rated products. We become extremely frustrated when things go wrong. If you are parepared to have a lot of things go wrong with a Kia, then by all means buy one. Subaru has built a reputation as one of the better manufacturer's for quality and reliability, but even the best can have problems.
If you are prepared to take your losses and "Junk" the car, I would suggest that you see if the dealer may want to accept it for a trade in on a new Subaru. If not, a scrapyard probabally would make you an offer.
I don't know how well the car has been for you in the past, but I am sure you have enjoyed it, and guess that you will enjoy a new Subaru. My experience with a 2003 Outback is that the quality of workmanship, build and reliability has increased, as too have refinement and overall feel. You owe it to yourself to take one for a test drive, even if the Kia delearship next door is offering a zillion mile warranty.
I will test drive a Subaru, but I will have to factor in the cost of extended warrrenty in the orginal purchase price ,this time.
I'm a little nervous about my clutch shuddering problem - more specifically, I don't want the dealer to get away with a quick fix when they should be replacing the whole clutch. The guy on the phone told me they would replace the flywheel to addrees it.
Is there a specific TSB I can reference to make sure they and I are on the same page?
I'm supposed to take the car to them tomorrow for the repair.
Thanks!
Steve
I had a lot of problems with my 97. Most caused by poor dealership service. My 2000 has been better, but it too has had its fair share of problems. I have to give SOA credit though. They've stood behind their products, unlike my past experience with a Nissan Pathfinder lemon.
I do think Subaru is going to have to expand its basic warranty soon to 4/50, since many other companies are moving to this. BTW, Kia is near the bottom in long term quality even with a 10/100 warranty.
Throwing a rod is an unusual failure. You may want to provide the dealer and our Rep. with a copy of the maintenance history on the vehicle. It will help them assess the cause of the failure.
I'm sure we can try to do something for you.
Thanks.
Patti
Brian
I too need to have done on my 2.5RS 2002. Problem is now getting worse and worse (22000 km).
Michel
I will call them back with this TSB and see what they say. I took the car into them at 12K miles complaining of this clutch behavior so, it's on record.
Thanks again!!
Greg
What I would suggest is looking for a rebuilt engine, not a new one. Try to find a wrecked car with an intact powertrain and transplant it, or pay someone to.
This junk yard specializes in Subaru:
http://www.fsautoparts.com/
A long warranty is only half the equation. Hondas are reliable but they offer a pathetic 3/36 warranty with no roadside assistance. Kias have a great warranty but an unproven reliability record (read: dismal).
Subaru offers, IMO, a good balance of the two. You want both? So do I, that's why I bought a Subaru Gold warranty. I get 7/100 with 0 deductible bumper-to-bumper coverage, plus roadside assistance, plus better resale down the road. Add to that free towing coverage, guaranteed loaner or rental reimbursement, etc yada yada yada.
Randall: I suspect the water pump is beginning to fail, from your description. At that age, just change it, some people do it every 60k anyway. Have your belts and the O-ring seal done at the same time if they're not already.
-juice
PS I've already made use of the service loaner, they really roll out the red carpet for Subaru Gold customers. My loaner was not an econobox, either - we got a brand new minivan.
For what it is worth, the Rep. said he doesn't know who you are and said it was unlikely that you work for Subaru.
Eventually a head gasket failed, engine lost coolant, and then died. Twice.
Steve
Thanks!
Patti
Greg
Steve, Host
Subaru Gold prices vary a lot, you should shop it around. Someone in the Outback thread got a 7/70 for $700 or so (all 7s, easy to remember!), and that's the best deal I've seen around here.
-juice
Jon
P.S. I hope nobody minds if I cross-post this over in the regular legacy/outback thread.
Anyone have part numbers?
-juice
Thanks to all who helped me out!
Brian
Patti
Not 100% sure that everything is the same between the '00 (first of the new body) and the '02. Seem to remember that they increased the rotor size (and possibly the pads??) somewhere along the way??
Steve
As for pads, the rears are much smaller than the fronts.
-mike
I ordered my pads from 1stsubaruparts.com. It helps if you give them the VIN (serial number) of your car as it contains exact model information.
Jim
Need some thoughts/advice - even opinions
Symptoms: yesterday brake and battery light came on. Very intermittent; would stay on for a minute, off for 3, back on for a second, off for another second. Did not correlate with anything I did (brake, use wipers, radio, a/c, etc.)
Called my Subaru dealer and he guessed it is alternator related and made an appointment for next Wed.
Tonight: had to get a critter to the vet - didn't make it
My questions: could it just be the belt or does it sound more serious. If it is a complete overhaul what can I expect to pay - ball park.
Just a note - I am the second owner of this car, it was originally purchased at this dealer and it has gotten every required maintenance checkup, oil change etc. it's whole life. I have about 87,000 on it right now.
Thanks for any help!
tj
-mike
The rears went on fine and were identical except the part number - the last number is now a "2" instead of a "1" - I suspect they may have concluded the original rotors WERE prone to warping and upgraded specs or changed suppliers. Anyhow, got to the fronts and when I pulled them off, realized the Brembos were SMALLER! Tire Rack goofed and sent me rotors for a different Outback model. Turns out they don't make regular Brembos for the '02 Bean yet. Anyhow, the front rotors the dealer put on looked great at 15k, so I kept them on - I also noted that the front rotors had the "2" as the last part number (the "updated/improved" rotor???).
Bottom line, no vibration in the braking at all - smooth as can be - very happy now!!! I wished that Subaru replaced the rear originally, but it gave me a good excuse to do some real work on the car and it always feels good to something on your own (especially if you don't break something else in the process! :-)
Matt
If it is, the dealer will take care of it at no cost to you.
I hope this helps!
Patti
I am curious about all of those out there that have reported warped rotors - if anyone has looked at the rotor to see if it is a pad imprint issue?
Steve
Resurfacing or replacement (based on thickness)is a matter for 3/36 as long as it's not from flooding, etc.
Patti
My guess is that the alternator intermittantly stopped outputing, or became a shorting load, wiping out (draining) or overpowering your battery in the process. When the alternator came on line, the car ran OK. When it dropped out (or shorted), the battery had little reserve left to run the engine's ignition system and the accessories (lights, etc.). You did the right thing to go into 'conservation mode' to limp home.
As Patti said, you might be able to resolve this without cost.
Steve
Size-wise and ventilation they seem like they should do the job just fine. I find it hard to believe that so many are failing from overheating and warping as some seem to indicate.
Steve
Yes - I DID have some signifigant pad imprints on the rear rotors when I removed them (but nothing on the front ones!). So this occurred to the rears in the intervening 14k since the were turned and th fronts replaced.
My conclusion is that the rotor materials (or anti-rust coating as Patti suggested) were different for the OE parts put on the car at manufacture and have since been slightly changed (the fronts had NO pad imprints and they are all the orignal pads all the way around) because of the different part numbers I had on two sets of Subaru rear rotors.
My guess (only slighty educated, mind you) is that the OE rotors were a slightly different composition, that the rears were slightly "off" in terms of uniform thickness, and that after turning, the thinner areas were more susceptible to heat under "panic" braking (e.g., the common rush hour 60-0 drill on the interstate) where the brakes pads were held against the rotor for a while after the full stop. I have since modified my braking (especially after hard braking - which I try to avoid at all times) so that I can immediately release the brakes before coming to a complete stop and feather the brakes (i.e., to let the car creep ahead) so that the pads are not welded to the rotors. It is a theory that needs some validation...so hopefully I wont't be posting in another 30k about installing another set of rotors if I am right!!! :-)
Matt
I was going on vacation for a week, and washed/waxed the OBW before putting her in the garage. Moving the car was met with a severe shudder, so I 'worked' the brakes on a few short runs forwards and backwards to dry them out. A week later, I started and shifted into reverse. The brakes were frozen on! Rev'ed the engine, and she broke free. But the damage was done - a deep rust imprint.
I picked up some garnet sand paper and was going to pull the rotors and block sand to see if I could save them myself. The hardware store isn't too far from the dealer, so I stopped by. The service writer seemed amused, and offered to do it under warranty, so I dropped it off the next morning.
At work, I hobnobbed with the other 'car people', and nobody had ever experienced this - except a fellow Subaru owner! He parked his older GL after wet winter driving, and two weeks later suffered the same rotor imprinting. But to be fair, there is little chance he was running OEM pads or rotors, so there may me little connection.
I seem to remember maybe a year or so ago somebody on these boards had something similar happen after parking at an airport for an extended stay. Anybody remember who?
Steve
DaveM
I suffered something similar on my Mercedes some years ago. Drove home through freezing rain behind an ice gritter, in England. Then left the car parked for three weeks. Although the brakes had been hot when parked, the discs rusted over everywehere except under the pads. Needed new discs and pads all around - not a cheap experience for a Mercedes.
Cheers
Graham
Graham's experience is sort of the 'mirror image' - rust everywhere except under the pad.
Steve
What's not normal is brake pads that are not properly retracting away from the rotor, but remaining firmly against it while parked. I'd speculate the real problems here are not properly lubed slider pins (should be done when pads are installed and is often skipped by mechanics), or caliper pistons getting slight corrosion on their outer surfaces (typical symptom of brake fluid not being bled/changed properly - annually in my opinion).
A bit of rust on the rotors is similarly normal for a car sitting a while. Walk through a new car lot and you'll see what I mean. Basically, you've got raw uncoated steel rotors exposed to the elements. But a couple brake applications act just like a machining and the surface will get bright and polished again. There are exceptions to this, but that is how brakes were designed to operate in their environment.
The small ridges that make the outline of the pads on the rotors will usually be polished off similarly, leaving faint traces as the rust action slightly pitted the rotor along those edges until wear eliminates even these marks.
So, be sure your slider pins are properly attended to at service (removed, cleaned and lubed if called for - some are dry design), and get that brake fluid changed out annually - especially in cold climates w/salt.
IdahoDoug
There may indeed be an underlying cause that will show itself again. Along with the garnet paper, I bought a new can of Brake Klean and a tube of high temp slider and pin grease, but then turned it over to the dealer to service.
Steve
-mike