Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

ateixeira

I was thinking that, too. I'd bleed the lines, clean the brakes, and put some of that anti-sieze goo on the pistons.

-juice

idahodoug

If the dealer took off a lot of rotor material and told you he did it because the "damage was deep" with great concern in his voice, find another dealer. Cast iron the quality of modern brake rotors does not get penetrated much beyond the surface - even by the worst rust environment. The worst case I've ever seen could have been handled by a simple light honing such as the procedure to deglaze rotors, and this barely removes any rotor at all.

It may be some of the pad material itself actually came off and adhered to the rotor. I've seen this before on drum brakes, but never on a disc. If so, those pads were kinda sketchy quality, I'd say.

Juice - are you thinking of the anti - squeal goo? Must be. Anyhow, never put any type of lubricant on brake pistons, other than the special piston lube that comes with them. Most lubes will attack and destroy the rubber piston seals and dust boot in short order, which is why there's a special caliper piston lube.

IdahoDoug

canpaul

Hi everyone.
I have been reading posts here for some time and thought it was time I participated. Of course I waited until I had a problem! If anyone can help I would appreciate it. We own a 1999 Legacy L Sedan with the 2.2 engine and automatic tranny. We purchased the car new in December 1998, and it now has almost 61,000 kilometers. The car seems to be setting the CEL on during warm up. As the temp gauge rises, just before it reaches the normal operating point (after running for 3-5 minutes), the car loses power and surges for a minute, setting the CEL. The light has gone off a couple of times, but repeating the cold start/warm up ritual has set it on 3 times now. I do not have a scan tool to read codes, so I expect to take it in for repair, but I was hoping for some enlightenment first. Any thoughts?

Paul B

bgabel1260

Is it normal to feel a constant vibration in the stick shift while you are in gear? My shifter doesn't visibly move but you can feel the vibrations in your hand. I guess this is because the manual transmission is not shift-by-wire? I have a brand new 2003 OBW and am not well-versed with all of Subaru's quirks (assuming that's what this is).

paisan

Sounds like a cat problem.

-mike

rob999

I guess the question is "how much vibration" are you getting? If I rest my hand on the shifter I do feel some minor vibrations or pulsing which I would almost expect with any manual trans shifter.

Interestingly, when my car was new, the shifter would start a very noticeable buzzing whenever I hit 75 mph on the expressway. This lasted for a couple months, but eventually went away without me doing anything.

darandall

Thanks for the suggestions, one and all. Dealer did pressure testing, and there were no leaks. They replaced the thermostat, and all is well now. My children are happy with their rescussitated vehicle!

nygreg

Congratulations! Seems like you got away with the best case scenario. Having the pressure test done is a definite plus as it gives you some confidence your head gaskets are OK too. And now you have new coolant. You do, don't you??

Greg

bgabel1260

I probably shouldn't call it a vibration. The shifter feels like it is connected to something that is spinning. Hopefully, the response is "well, duh, you are feeling the tranmission" but the shifters in my 2001 Accord and 1998 Contour always felt dead in the hand. Overall, though, the shifting action in the Outback is much better and positive-feeling than those other cars.

conn2003

I'm getting on again-off again noise underneath the car: rattling, thumping, sometimes loud, sometimes soft, and often no noise at all. Dealer says it is the heat shield, but their adjustments aren't putting a stop to it. Any ideas?

paisan

Well for one thing the transmission wasn't under your shifter in the FWD cars you mentioned, so I'm positive that you are feeling some of that. I know that even on ATs I feel a vibration in my gear selector on my RWD based cars v. FWD based.

-mike

grahampeters

G'day

The vibration felt through the gear change is a result of the very direct connection between the gear shift and the trasnmission. In your former cars, the linkage would involve a system of cables that tend to dampen the feel, and the control inputs. This makes them imprecise but reduces any vibration in the car. With the Subaru, the linkages are essentaill direct, meaning more precise movement but also more feel for the vibration in the gearbox.

Cheers

Graham

subaru_team

hit the nail on the head. Very nice response! If I'm permitted to add - it is a VERY bad idea to drive/ride with your hand resting on the shifter. This isn't necessarily "Subie" advise, but more what I learned way back when I was young. It can cause wear (or is it an old wives tale??)

Thanks Graham!

Patti

subaru_team

your post or profile do not give me much to go on. What year is the vehicle? How many miles? In my older Subaru (1990), the heat shields are a bit noisey, but we've learned to get used to it. It isn't something that can cause damage and, due to the age, it's not worth it for us to replace them.

If you're not happy with what the dealer has told you, why not call the customer service center at 1-800-SUBARU3? A Rep. can follow-up with your dealer to find out what they've done and see if they need some diagnostic help. While the Customer Service Rep. can't help with the diagnosis, they can get some resources to the dealership.

Let us know?

Patti

fibber2

have never driven a traditional rear wheel drive standard transmission car with a floor shifter mounted directly to the tranny case. Subaru is unusual in today's marketplace with its 'fore & aft' (traditional) mounted drivetrain, as opposed to the current 'transverse' mount craze. Transverse gives that "remote control" shifter feel - the long linkages isolate the driver from what is really going on.

Patti's comment is valid. If you push or pull while resting your hand on the shifter ball, you are moving the fork that holds the synchro engaged.

Steve

mjansen1

Last week in 90 degree temp while in drive thru line (only in line for about 2min) I notice our temp gauge start to climb. I pulled over, turned off the car, and opened the hood right before the needle hit the red. Checked oil and coolant-- were fine. Both fans were turning on and off. After cooling down, we proceeded to climb two mountain passes with no problems but with the AC off of course. We are getting loud belt noise of some sort when we start the car and the AC is already on. Comments ya'll? Thanks

nygreg

Your thermostat could be sticking. Have the dealer check your T-stat and water pump. The AC noise could just be that the belt driving it is slipping and needs adjusting.

Greg

subaru_team

canpaul

Thanks for the input Mike. I had it into the dealer today and they found code P0325, indicating a knock sensor fault. They replaced the sensor and the light is not on now. Hopefully it will not come on during the next warm up cycle. Our car has just recently developed a slight rattle when accelerating from a stop that I expect is a heat shield. It only happens for a second, and the exhaust is in good shape, so we are leaving it until something more serious goes wrong in the exhaust. Regarding wresting your hand on the shifter, it is my understanding that this is hard on the shift forks.

Paul B
PaulB

bgabel1260

The owner's manual does say something about not resting your hand on the shifter while it's in gear. I've developed a tendency to hold it (lightly) in anticipation of shifting gears so it seems like I should "unlearn" this habit.

nygreg

nygreg

had mine replaced 2 weeks ago.

Greg

conn2003

My subaru legacy had over 60,000 miles. Sometimes it sounds like something is rubbing near the front left tire. Is this really the heat shield?

idahodoug

My steering sometimes vibrates to the accompanyment of a cavitating rattle from the PS pump. I'm thinking a bit of trapped air and want to bleed it. I know how to do it on the 'Cruiser, but have no factory manual for the Sube.

Anyone know the correct procedure? Thanks.

IdahoDoug

paisan

Never bled em on the subies. I generally just fill it up and let her go. I just did this on the SVX cause I had popped a line off it when a clamp rusted out. It shuddered for a day or 2 til it worked out the air pockets I think.

-mike

friendly_jacek

Hi,

Gradually, the MPG in my wife's 2000 Legacy L deteriorated from 20-24 (when new) to 18-20 (a year ago) to 14-15 MPG now. Mostly city driving with very light (0-10%) towing. This must be a sub with absolutely the worst fuel efficiency. Maintenance is by the book, BTW.
Recently, I started using synthetic engine, AT, and differential oils.

I also detected 3.9% fuel in oil. Complained about this and milage to the dealership (still drivetrain warranty). I was told the car was OK it it was normal for an old (sic!) car. However, the service refused to put my complaint and their assessment in writing.

The only recommendation I was given was to switch to 5W30 oil. I currently use synthetic 5W40 because 5W30 is permitted only up to 100F and not recommended for towing (I live in south US).

I still think there is something wrong with the car, even though the engine light stays off.
Is there a way to convince dealership to do any diagnostic work?

Thanks,
Jacek

sebberry

What is the quickest way to reset the ECU?

I want to clear the "learning" it has done with the transmission shifting.

Thanks

ateixeira

Disconnect the negative battery terminal. Then step on the brakes, the brake light will kill any residual power. Then reconnect, be ready with they keyless remote to turn off any alarm. Start her up and let it idle 'til warm.

Jacek: I'd bet money you have leaky head gaskets. Call 800-SUBARU3 and describe the syptoms. Ask them to open a "Customer Says" call, so that it is documented before the powertrain warranty runs out. They cover it, that's the good news.

They may not do anything right now, but you'll got records. Also, organize your service receipts, just in case.

-juice

kent68

Hi everyone, I've been shopping for a used wagon for a while and, as a result, have spent some time reading these messages.

I am looking at a used 2001 base Outback w/ MT. I've read discussions about phase 1 vs phase 2 engines - should I stay away from either and how can I tell which this car has? Also, is there anything else about this year that I should know and lookout for?

Thanks in advance for your advice.

ateixeira

Phase I was used in the Outback until 1999, that was the DOHC design.

The Phase II started being used in 2000. It's been reliable, actually gasket failures are more of an issue on the 95-99 models and generally do not affect the newer ones.

Things to look for? Crawl under neath and check the block for oil stains, just in case. Any leak would be under warranty, though, and like I said on the Phase II that's not common.

Check the clutch for smooth operation. If it chatters, there is a TSB so technically you could get it replaced, but it's good to know.

Overall, 2001 is a good year. 2000 was the version 1.0 for that design, so they'd worked out the bugs. It should still have some warranty left on it.

My dad has a Limited from that year, he loves it. He had squeeky brakes but they fixed it for free, no other problems.

-juice

kent68

Thanks for the info, juice. I'll let you know if I buy it (or any other one I find) and join the Subie family.

friendly_jacek

I will keep you posted on the outcome (if any).

contour2

Hello, I have a 2002 Legacy wagon with a 5spd gearbox and have several problems. I would like to know if anyone else has had these issues? I have a pop noise in the exhaust when shifting from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. When the AC is on I cannot get the car to shift smoothly from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd and the car bucks like a mad mustang. The dealer says that this a normal condition "torque bind" I fear he is not telling the truth. I have also noticed that at idle, the idle speed varies quite a bit sometimes falling to 400 rpm's then catching it's self. Then dealer replaced the AF sensor because it was suppose to be the culprit, Techinal says it should run at +5 to -5. does anyone know if the AF should always be in that range or can it run out of that range and still be working correctly? Any thoughts?
Joseph

tony619

I've just read many of the postings seeking possible answers to 2 issues that I've experienced with my 02 Outback Wagon w/ MT.(42,000 miles mostly highway miles)
1)I notice an intermittent "metallic ping" or "clicking" (hard to describe)when up shifting between gears. It also seems to do it (again intermittent but less obvious)when I take my foot off the gas when in the high rpm range of a gear. I've tried changing my shifting patterns to see if I'm just no completing each gear change quickly enough or at sufficient rpm range(I generally shift between 3,000 & 3,500 rpm's), but this doesn't seem to be the answer. If this is just an annoyance then I can live with it. If this is a symptom of a possible bigger problem, then I'd like to know now.
2) When operating cold, I notice that I get quite a bit of shuddering in first and second gear. Is this due to the fact the car hasn't reached normal operating temperature,trans./differential fluid temp. (it was checked and is at the proper level), weak clutch plate, other reasons?? Again, if its just an annoyance then no problem.

Oh yeah, I've also noticed that after driving for a period of time (35 minutes over 32 miles)and make a quick stop at a store, the acceleration after startup is rough and not smooth(herky-jerky changes in acceleration and de-acceleration).

Otherwise, I've been very happy with my Subbie. Great gas mileage, super handling in the winter slop, excellent capacity for packing camping stuff. Wind noises are there, but are no big deal to me. No brake or tire problems either.

Thanks in advance to all reply's.

iowafarmer

Hi all... I just found your online community tonight and am glad that I did. I have never owned a Subaru before, but am considering a 2001 base OBW automatic 4 cyl. with 95K miles. Being bred on a farm w/domestic trucks, the high miles kinda scare me, but I know of Subaru's good reputation when it comes to this dept.

The dealer let me test drive the car overnight. Wife and I put about 100 miles on it and were quite pleased with performance. Also had an opportunity to speak on phone with previous owner and she couldn't say enough good things about the car. She told me that most miles were hwy - going to see kids on east coast and 4 trips to florida from iowa.

Just wanted some suggestions about what to take into consideration on high-mile late-model unit. Put it up on ramps while at home - only things I really noticed were:
1) what looked like possible leak on front driver's differential (though differential oil level was acceptable)
2) a little more rust on exhaust than I would expect on an '01 - had completely rusted thru spot weld on heat shield.
3) some gunk around transmission, but not excessive
4)slight rattle in driver's door

dealer has the service records, but wouldn't show them to me without a solid offer on the car, but said that at 54,000 they replaced serpentine, flipped and resurfaced rotors, and put on new pads.

Anything else you can think of as it approaches 100K? How about the timing belt (I know it is supposed to be done every 60K on my Toyota). What about valve clearance?

The car would get only about 10-12K per year, but mostly on short trips to work (12 miles one way). I think I could get the car bought for about $11,000 solid cash. Seem reasonable?

Thanks for your help. I might be going back to dealer on Mon or Tues, so any timely advice would be much appreciated. Sorry that my first post is such a long one. Hope to join the "Subaru Crew" soon.

corey

contour2

Hello again,
I failed to mention in the first note #1817 that my Legacy is about a year old and has 4200 miles on the odo. I use only Chevron gasoline "mid" grade and it has had an oil service every three month despite the very low miles.
I like the gentleman in post #1818 have that
"herky-jerky" on accel and decel. Patti what do you think? Maybe you can help me and Tony619.

Thank You,
Joseph

jay_24

Corey,

I have a 2001 OBW and love it.

You can see the maintenance schedule on the subaru web site.

http://www.subaru.com/owners/care/schedules/middle.jsp

Your right about the timing belt (100k miles). Otherwise there have been 2 recalls. NOTHING major here. One to re-program the copmuter to make the 'Check Engine Light' a little less sensitve and another to re-undercoat some suspension parts.

$11,000 seems a bit high given Subaru has $2000 cash back on new, and the high miles. But not too bad.... A new 03 Forester X can be about $19K and the 03 Baja has been in the $18K range in some cases.

--jay

cracovian

Way too many miles for way too much money...

Make sure that transmisson has been serviced - otherwise it's fried.

bkaiser1

that seems a bit high to me, given the extremely soft used car market. Under $10K seems reasonable, but anything more seems too high for an OB with that many miles.

If it's been well cared for, though, I would not hesitate to recommend the car. Mine served me well for the time I had it.

Brian

opusman

On a recent trip through Oklahoma (read hot!) one of our rear Firestone Wilderness tires blew with no apparent road hazard cause. The sidewall of the tire just shredded. Luckily we were able to pull over with no problem.

We were doing ~70 mph on straight flat road (of course, it was OK). The tires had 50K on them, with some wear on the edges, but no belts or anything of the like showing. All of the tires had been regularly checked for inflation, and in retrospect the tire that blew had lost about 2 psi on the previous check, and refilled.

Has anyone heard of this happening on their OB Wilderness tires? Like others, I had checked with Subaru when the whole Explorer stink had come out, and was assured that the tires on the OB were completely different. I'm concerned that others with aging tires may start to experience similar problems.
Jeff

iowafarmer

Hi all...

Thanks for the input on the hi-mile '01 OB I described. Your thoughts have helped me curb my enthusiasm for jumping at an OB too quickly, I will take some more time to look.

I wanted to stay around $10k on this particular one, but was willing to go up to $11k if they replaced timing belt, plugs wires and maybe pads. Kelly, NADA and Edmunds all put the dealer retail value for this car at about $15k (that's including high mileage deduction of $1800-$2100), and the trade in value at around $11,000, so i thought maybe it wasn't too bad a price (used subs are kinda tough to come by in these parts).

However, if even you Subaru fans are a little put off by the miles, perhaps I should be too.

Any suggestions of what $10-$12K will buy in a used Sub? I really want to stay in that area b/c it is our second car, mainly needed for winter driving.

OK - since this IS the problems/solutions board, I better ask such a question.....I noticed that Subaru recommends you change out your brake fluid annually. I have never heard any other manufacturer suggesting such a thing. All our farm vehicles have original brake fluid still in them and have never had a problem. Does anybody know Subaru's reasoning for this? Can your average mechanic perform this, or is it something you want to go to a dealership for? Any idea on labor costs?

Thanks again for all your help. You guys are great! I appreciate it.

Corey

dhmccabe

I know very little about cars but I did just have some AC problems on a 96 outback which led to surging and dragging when accelerating as the AC kicked in and out. I note that AC is part of your scenario.

I had the car in the shop (for the third time) and the mechanic found that the AC was overcharged with freon. He drained a little and symptom is gone.

Good luck.

paisan

And you wonder why the tire blew????

Jeez.

-mike

rob999

Annual brake fluid changes?

My owner's manual says 3 years or 30K miles. (2001 Outback)

energymatt

I may have a cracked, warped or broken head or gasket. It is also possible I may have overfilled oil into 1996 Outback, anyway , lots of oil showed up in overflow bottle of cooling system. Some one suggested it might be a 1-2 quart overfill problem others seem to be thinking Head is cracked. Car runs, no cooling problems once radiator hose replaced, no overheating problems.

please reply if you have an opinion on the Overfill of oil issue.

THanks

idahodoug

I can think of no reason an oil overfill would cause a head issue. The symptom of an overfilled oil situation is poor lubrication due to the oil being whipped and foamed by hitting the connecting rods. This may damage bearings and produce isolated hot spots.

But oil getting into the cooling system could only happen one way - by a failed head gasket allowing oil ports and cooling ports to mix their fluids. You have such an issue.

Why did you write : "Car runs, no cooling problems once radiator hose replaced, no overheating problems"? Did you have an overheating condition on this engine due to an aged rad hose?

IdahoDoug

capriracer1

It is difficult to analyze a failed tire just from a verbal description, but the "shredded sidewall" leads me to believe that you had a "run flat". If you look carefully you may find the puncture, but it also possible that the puncture was in the damaged area in the sidewall. I have seen punctures fairly high on the sidewall - to the point where it is hard to believe that you could get one there.

Hope this helps.

ateixeira

Joseph: the throttle is not very linear, it takes a while to get used to. It's kind of ON/OFF, hard to cruise at slow speeds. It's our biggest complaint about ours, 2002 L 5 speed just like yours.

You may have a clutch affected by that TSB, making matters worse. They should work on that for you, though.

Our A/C works fine and has no affect on drivability.

The gaskets may have failed due to the elevated temps, then the oil and coolant mixed up. That engine might just be toast. Did it overheat for a long time? An alloy block isn't going to respond nicely to that.

-juice

iowafarmer

You are right about the 3 yr/30K mi on brake fluid changes. I misread my notes...this car had been driven roughly 30K per year, therefore would have required it annually.

Still, anybody know the reasoning on changing out the brake fluid? I have never heard of it before on other makes.

paisan

All makes require it.

The reason? Brake fluid is Hydroscopic aka absorbs moisture. When moisture becomes absorbed into the brake fluid, and the fluid is heated up above the boiling point of water, under heavy braking situations, the water boils and creates air bubbles in the line (the heat is from the friction of the pads against the rotors, that then travels to the calipers to the fluid in the lines)

Once you have air bubbles in your lines, then the pedal will feel "mushy" and will not provide satisfactory braking power. A friend had a 10 year old XT6 that he thought had major brake problems, changed out pads, rotors and still no better, finally I told him to flush the fluid and it was as good as new.

So you should definitely change it out 1x every 2 years IMHO on "average" drivers, for me I change it out every 10-12 months on my daily driver cars, and every 6 months on the race/track cars.

-mike