Subaru Legacy/Outback Wagons Maintenance & Repair

ateixeira

It's probably an O2 sensor, that's what it was on our 626.

Bosch sells those for $70 or so, you may want to just replace them if you're past 36k miles. They are a wear and tear item so that's why they don't usually cover them under the powertrain warranty.

That might turn off the CEL and save you a trip. An hour of labor to check the codes might cost you more than the new 02 sensor would.

I think there are 2 though on the 2.5l, please chime in if anyone has more info about them.

-juice

nygreg

how many and where are they located? Wouldn't the O2 sensor be considered an emissions warranty item?

Greg

ateixeira

Auto Zone will scan the code for free. If it tells you the O2 sensor is bad, buy it there and for $70 it's resolved.

If it's something else, maybe they can reset it and/or point out what you could replace yourself, and you can see if it comes back on.

If so, then I'd see the dealer.

-juice

PS FWIW, a serious problem would give you a blinking CEL

ateixeira

This is why I want to buy a scanner for myself. They are a little over $100, so use it twice and you come out ahead. With our fleet of 3 cars I'm sure we'd benefit.

-juice

subaru_team

Ask the dealer if they can offer you some goodwill assistance on the repair. If you don't have Added Security, they probably won't offer 100%, but I think they'd help some. If not, call 1-800-SUBARU3. Ask the Rep. to start a case and to see me if they need help. I can't take on the case directly (I'd get buried if I did it all myself), but I can get the Rep. in the right direction. Sorry for the agg.

Patti

stinkynelson

Juice,

Where can I find specifics on the TSB?

I checked the Edmunds resource for my OB, but only found 5 TSBs, none of which were related to the transmission.

Here's the link to what I'm referring to:
http://www.edmunds.com/maintenance/MaintenanceServlet?step=step4&- amp;year=2002&make=Subaru&model=Outback&style=AWD+4dr- +Wagon+%282.5L+4cyl+5M%29&zip=01944&popup=current&syn- partner=edmunds&tid=edmunds...mnt.step2.9.Subaru*

Thanks!

nygreg

Thanks Patti. I plan on bringing the car in for the rear suspension recall and have new tires installed while there (purchased @ Tirerack). I figured if I throw some business their way they might help me a little. Honestly, getting a little nervous now with warping rotors, blown HG and now the CEL. I'm getting the Subaru card to help with expenses (bike rake, maintenance, etc) and/or new car in future.

Greg

bvchurch

1997 Legacy Outback with 140K

Just had a diagnosis and was told that my air compressor was leaking at the welding sean. I need to replace the compressor, but what else do I need to replace? Where can I get these parts? Napa or Schucks(Checker)? Or a wrecking yard?

ateixeira

Someone must have the details re: the clutch, last I saw it, it was shared in the Forester thread. You might want to ask there. I should bookmark it next time I see it.

Brian: dunno, maybe the parts counter guys can help. NAPA staff are usually helpful.

It won't be cheap, my Escort needed a $700 repair from my mechanic when the condenser went.

Repairs just cost a lot. That was with an indy mechanic, way back when. I'm sure it would be more today. This is why I suggest considering an extended warranty.

But at 140k nothing would cover you...

-juice

stinkynelson

Thanks Juice. I found that the TSB is 03-51-02R and then called my dealer. He said that they've been replacing the flywheel to address this issue and that that part plus the labor is covered under warranty, even though I'm at 50K miles. The other peripheral parts are not covered so I'm only looking at about a $200 repair.

Thanks for your help!

bkaiser1

To address the issue, they are replacing more than the flywheel -- the entire clutch assembly is covered by the fix. I battled endlessly for 43K miles before the fix was finally made available. They replaced the entire clutch, for free, out of warranty and the difference was amazing. I drove the car another 10K miles before trading it on a 2004 wrx and never had any recurring trouble with the clutch. I'd be hesitant to pay $200 for something that should be covered by Subaru.

Brian

ateixeira

You are getting a brand-new clutch, though. I've had two cars where the clutches didn't last much longer than that (both around 70k). I spent $400 on one and just traded the other car.

-juice

tfoshbone

A.J. What is the name/brand of a scanner for a subie? Also I posted this somewhere (don't remember where) Could anyone anyone recommend an after market intake/air filter? and is the advantage worth the money?? thanks T

mjansen1

I recall a post on here about someone not being able to get the back seat to fold forward because they couldn't find the "release strap". I have had no problems finding it for four years on our 2000 Outback but for the last week I have tried five times and still can't get it. Comments?

sebberry

... that I just put on my new Outback seems to do more for reducing wind noise than bug slpatters on the windshield.

Not to mention that a lot of dust and fine stones were still hitting the windshield, and one unfortunately chipped the glass.

Has anyone else noticed this?

jlemole

That was me a couple of weeks ago. I kept trying to get at it from the driver's side. It's actually on the passenger side. Slide your hand along the back edge starting from the passenger side, and you'll hit the mechanism (then fish around for the strap).

Assist goes to Dave (Hypov) on this one!

Jon

ateixeira

Papa Bear (subearu) pointed me to one vendor. I e-mailed them about a group buy but have not heard back yet. It was about $120 or so.

I've lost the link, but if they respond I'll share it here.

-juice

nygreg

Well, have an appointment on Wednesday to have the recall done and have the CEL looked at. I expect my new Kumhos to come in the mail by then, so I will have the dealership install them also. I'll keep you updated.

Greg

jlemole

I've scheduled the recall for next Tuesday and I got them to give me a loaner!

I'm also gonna have them do a pressure test for me since I'm noticing a slight coolant loss. Curiously, I mentioned to the service manager that I'm concerned given the history of HG problems. He said that it's really not a big problem; he hasn't seen alot of blown HG's and the ones he has seen are due to poor maintenance or excessive driving habits.

Jon
02 OBW 25k miles

ateixeira

Sorry, but that is nonsense.

-juice

zman3

Your service advisor is full of crap. I have heard of many head gasket issues, mine being one of them. I have done maintenance by the book and I hardly consider my suburban commuting excessive. Either he is a liar or he is misinformed.

fibber2

having just gone thru it at under 16k miles on a well maintained and carefully driven car...

Steve

subaru_team

are being told, make sure you speak to the Service Manager. Then, call us at 1-800-SUBARU3 if you need further assistance. We're there to help. I'll work with the Rep. you contact if they need me. You can just let them know that you are one of my Edmunds friends.

Thanks!

Patti

ateixeira

Subaru has been good about replacing HGs under warranty, unlike Toyota with the sludge problem, they denied until lots of pressure finally made them cave. I save the articles from Automotive News, it bothered me so much.

I'm a bit sensitive about the dealers blaming owners' driving or maintenance habits, though, because that is exactly what Toyota did, and to be honest it is cowardly. That strategy thankfully backfired for them.

800-SUBARU3 is a good idea, the folks are friendly and you should not hesitate to call. They have always been able to help me on the first call (to renew a free Subscription to Drive).

-juice

nygreg

Although I am a Toyota fan, I agree with juice that Subaru (and my dealer) has responded well to my issues. Now if Subaru would give me a 100K warranty for HGs, it would be great.

Greg

zman3

I should maybe clarify my negative comment. I also had no problems getting my headgasket issue fixed under the powertrain warranty. It was painless. However, like Juice I do take issue with individuals that try to blame the driver when, IMHO, it is clearly a design or quality issue.

nygreg

I disagreed with Jon's dealer's comment. My HG went at 33K. HOw can it possibly be poor maintenance or driver error that caused it?

Greg

jlemole

Well I kind of shrugged his comment off at the time given that we were on a phone call and not in face-to-face conversation. Anyway, this dealer has been otherwise pretty good so far on warranty issues (for example, they did spot my slight o-ring leak on a routine service call), and we'll see what they have to say about the coolant loss next week after an inspection. If there is an HG issue, it certainly won't be because of my driving habits. I may put alot of miles, but easy highway miles with rarely a high rev, and prompt maintenance. I'll report back.

Jon

zman3

I'm a bit confused. I wasn't implying that you agreed with the service advisor. I think we all are saying the same thing, and that is that the dealers have fixed our issues and noone had better imply that the headgasket issues are the owners fault.

subaru_team

a driver could be blamed for a head gasket problem. It's not a maintenance item. The only concern would be if someone choose to ignore the problem and loss of coolant and ended up cooking the engine.

I agree that the customer should never be blamed first. Maybe the Service Advisor needs to bone up on the vehicle. It is always best to review things with the Service Manager. They have a lot more experience with the vehicle and are in the best position to seek assistance on your behalf.

Patti

jlemole

for jumping in on this issue. Like I said, maybe it can just be chalked up to perfunctory telephone blather. And, with all luck, it will turn out to be a non-issue altogether although there definitely seems to be coolant loss, and I don't see any evidence of leakage....My car goes in a week from today, and we'll see what happens.

Thanks everyone else for chiming in, as well.

Jon

ateixeira

If it was on the phone, he may have just been thinking out loud. I'll cut him a little slack if that's the case.

-juice

nygreg

While having my car worked on at the dealer today (see Maintenance thread), I overheard the service advisor explaining to someone over the phone that they had to replace the left HG on their car.

Patti - called Subaru about trying to get a goodwill gesture on my failed Knock sensor (CEL). The rep was very nice. Need to contact her tomorrow.

Greg

ateixeira

Cool, Greg. Be nice to them. I used to work for a Help Desk and it's a tough, thankless job. Being nice can go a long way.

-juice

nygreg

I am usually very patient, cooperative and friendly. I put myself in their shoes. Interestingly, the dealership told me that the rep wanted me to mail her a copy of all of my service records, which I started to compile. I called again today to verify, and all they needed was for me to fax them a copy of the bill. Hmmm. Although the dealer was up front and worked with me cordially, they tried to insinuate that the failure could be due to me not having the throttle body and injectors cleaned by them. He also said the knock sensor just detects pinging. I mentioned that based on the sensor the car would adjust timing to reduce the knock. He said that it doesn't. Although I didn't tell him I disagree, I think he picked up on it. I wonder if the knocking I have once in a while damaged the sensor or the sensor has not been operating properly. Ahhhh, but now with the new sensor and new tires (Kumho), the car is really nice to drive (smoooooooth).

Greg

ateixeira

Check my.subaru.com, are you registered? I have all my service right there on line, including a recall the dealer did 5 years ago. All the records are there.

I imagine the folks at 800-SUBARU3 have access to the same records. Is that correct, Patti?

-juice

subaru_team

Greg - I did talk to your Rep., Daisy. As far as the dealer, there is more to it than I think is appropriate to go into here, but we'll make sure your issue is addressed. I'll work with the dealer on the other "issues".

We cannot view peoples service records via their My.Subaru account. We do not have access to passwords, etc. We wanted people to feel secure that no one could "mess with" their records, so we do not provide access. It's really a service for the customer - not something that's supposed to help us.

Greg - you should hear from Daisy tomorrow. She's on the right track. She's an excellent Rep. that really takes the time to be thorough in her cases.

Chat with you all tonight!

Patti

nygreg

Patti - Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. Daisy has been great and I was also impressed with Natalie and Steve(?) when I called trying to contact Daisy. Very, very helpful. I must say, I am impressed with Subaru's service here. Now that I have the Subaru card coming in the mail, I can start saving for a new Legacy GT!

BTW - to improve my relationship with our OB, I changed the oil tonight. She's very happy.

Thank you again,
Greg

lreinstein

I AM VERY FRUSTRATED AND DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO.

I own a 1998 Subaru Outback Limited. 4 days ago, when trying to start it, the engine cranked but did not start. Mechanic thought was timing belt but this was not the case. He believes the engine needs replacement--there is no compression and camshafts turn easily by hand.

I called SOA and they told me to go through the dealership. The Service Manager at our Local Subaru Dealer (where I bought the car) says that since it is out of warranty, Subaru will do nothing about it. Interestingly, they replaced the "short block" on this 4 cylinder engine at 30K under warranty. THe car is meticulously cared for. How can a SUBARU engine suddenly fail after only 70K (40K really since short block)? Isnt there an implied warranty that an engine should last beyond this. Shouldn't Subaru be willing to assist?

I am very upset at the way SUBARU is handling this. I loved how the car drived and wanted to buy another one (a 6 cylinder) next year. Given this attitude I never want to buy one again.

Any advice is appreciated.

subaru_team

a time and see what we can do. I did look at your case and it appears that a dealer has not diagnosed it yet. My suggestion:

Over the telephone, with a general inquiry, a dealer cannot commit to anything. Bring it into the dealer and let them diagnose the failure. Make sure you bring all of your maintenance records with you.

Once they have an idea on what is wrong and what the cause of failure is, we can see if we can help.

If it's not at a dealer, we cannot do anything. By going to a dealer, there is a good possibility (if the vehicle has been properly maintained) that we will be able to help in some way.

I'm sorry you are having a problem. It is unusual for our engines to fail (especially two times) but it is a piece of machinery.

We'll do our best to try to help you. Also, I noticed that your vehicle has an open alternator campaign on it. You may want to have the dealer check this when you go in.

Patti

fibber2

IIRC, the knock sensor is a tiny little round black device screwed into the top of the block, nestled under the intake manifold near cyl #4 (drivers side). There is nothing you can do to help or hurt it. It is an external component, so engine maintenance and fuel system cleaning will have not effect on the sensors performance.

Steve

ateixeira

Take it to the dealer and call 800-SUBARU3, they should work with you.

I also e-mailed you some more specifics.

-juice

nygreg

You are correct. I checked on it last night (while changing my oil) and it is exactly where you described. Probably my imagination, but the car is running much smoother now. I'm curious if there will be any impact to mpg. Now I just need to wax her. :-)

Larry - in order for Subaru to try and help you, they need to be able to look at the problem which means you need to get the car to a dealership (not easy when it doesn't run). I am very curious what you find out, since the only scenario I can come up with is that you broke all of your valves (interference engine). That will happen only if your cams are not properly lined up with your crankshaft - i.e. your timing belt. If your mechanic said the belt is fine, is it possible the belt somehow skipped teeth? If so, it would have to be on the crank, since you implied both cams move freely. Let us know. BTW, although you don't want to hear this now, these engines typically go way past 200K miles.

Fyi, when towing to the dealer make sure you find out if you need a flatbed truck to do so.

Greg

subaru_team

your mechanic went with diagnosis. But, if it isn't cranking, it may be something as simple as the alternator that has the open campaign.

Like I said, let's take it a bit at time and find out what the problem is before we get into what needs to be done to help you.

If it is the alternator, towing to the dealer is also covered under the parameters of the campaign.

I'm off line for a few days. Catch y'all on Monday. Have a wonderful, safe weekend!

Patti

fibber2

You have me very curious. I have noticed more pinging than usual as the summer progressed. I bought some Techron (supposed to reduce carbon accumulation which can promote ping), but have not added it yet. I am wondering if my knock sensor is 'hearing impared'. Didn't you get a CEL? I could understand if the ECU couldn't "see" the sensor anymore (ie - open circuit) that it would notate it, but would there be a red flag if the sensor was simply going deaf?

Steve

nygreg

Patti is correct. I kinda jumped the gun and anticipated the worst given your info. I could be very simple (usually is). What's the latest??

Greg

nygreg

I have noticed some ping over the past year or two, but nothing that worried me. Then about 3 weeks ago the car sent a CEL. I checked the gas cap. It went away. Then back, away, back etc. Finally, last week it seemed to stay on and twice I noticed the car surging. This prompted my trip to the dealer.

Greg

nygreg

I heard from Subaru today. Thanks to our Subie Goddess and Daisy (Goddessette?) my problem has been resolved. Thank you Daisy. Thank you Patti. This company stands behind their product and I am sold.

A happy Greg.

P.S. I am drinking my second glass of wine as I write this. :-))))

ftdad1

I have a 97 Outback with 79,000 miles. While on a trip last weekend the engine threw a rod right through the engine block!!!!! My engine also suffered form the ticking noise that others have. It was towed to a Subaru dealership where they told me that it was out of warranty and Subaru would not cover any of the 5,000 repair. I also believe that Subaru implies that there cars will last well beyond 100,000 miles and to not take any responsibility in such a case is really bad for future sales. I think the quality of the late 90’s Subaru is questionable and these engine problems are more than “a rarity” My endorsement of Subaru's quality can be linked to the purchase of 5 Subarus by friends and family now I really question my endorsement.

What is the best way to proceed from here?
REBUILD?
JUNK IT?
BUY A KIA TO GET THE KIND OF WARRANTY SUBARU SHOULD HAVE?

originalbitman

I don't think a rebuild is an option if you punched a hole through the block... unless it is a small hole that did no other damage to the integrity of the block. But I doubt it.

BTW - not many engine failures mentioned in this board.

bit