Do you have reading comprehension problems? More cars sold does not equal more problems. That's why I mentioned the Camry, America's TOP SELLING CAR. THAT MEANS THERE ARE MORE CAMRYS THAN MALIBUS. But the Camry has proven to be far less problematic, despite there being MORE OF THEM THAN MALIBUS. Maybe that's WHY it's a top seller? I'm sorry, I can't clarify this any better for you. This is seriously making me wonder how well you comprehend your FARs and AIMs. Scary.
You know, this is common sense and basic arithmetic. CTF, if you take off from airport "A" and set your altimeter to the corresponding air pressure, but land at airport "B" (or simply fly through an area with different barometer readings than airport "A") whose airpressure is lower (or higher) will your altimeter read high or low, assuming you didn't readjust it? If you're flying a north-easterly course of 42 degrees but have a crosswind coming from 97 degrees, and want to fly 245 miles to your destination, how far off course will you be if you don't compensate? How much will you have to compensate? What course should you follow? I'm sorry, but I am bewildered at how you can understand and figure these kinds of problems out but not understand the point I was trying to make with the Camry.
stang and obyone, I can always tell when you lose a debate because the personal attacks begin, and obyone mentions the one star rating for the 500th time. Get a new line.
I think you have the comprehension problem, the more vehicles produced the more total problems you have, like my previous example stated, if there is one problem per chevy pickup there is going to be a total of 700,000 problems, if there is one problem per tundra there are only going to be 100,000 problems because that is all the vehicles they make. so of course you are going to here more about chevrolet truck problems because there are a lot more people with chevy trucks.
about more Camry problems, being there are more Camrys than Malibus? Sorry, bud, you're WRONG.
Please don't call me un-American or anything else that suggests that. You know, if you lived near the Texas-Mexico border (especially), you would see things that would make your head spin. Everyday, freight trains roll into Mexico with hundreds of vehicle frames stacked like egg-crates. Then you see freight trains returning to the United States with "car-packs" which are caged freight cars holding brand-new American-brand cars, fully assembled off the frames that arrived just a few weeks earlier. And it's not just cars, but all kinds of appliances (GE is big time into this) and everything else you can imagine, from fishing lures (REALLY) to clothes to brick and tile. While I respect people who are patriotic and feel they are doing their part by buying "American," I wonder why the companies, like Dodge especially, don't feel the same way and have their manufacturing done in the US. Now, it seems the consumer is more patriotic than the producer. Sorry, but I know what's REALLY going on, and feel no guilt buying a Toyota made in the states.
CTF, I hate to say it, but you really need to get out of isolated Ellensburg and be removed from your sheltered existence. This is the only experience that will really open your eyes. This is not a derogatory remark - I was much the same way during my college years. But I've learned FAR more about the world when I left college and was exposed to reality and not academia.
I must admit that the side impact rating of that Lemonado of yours has been great for the over 4 months that it has been in the shop. It is difficult to ram a truck that is in its usual place on the top of the service rack. I'll bet it gets terrific gas mileage while on the rack also. Could you please stop whining - it is deafening!
C'mon - this story is the biggest load of hogwash that I have ever seen! It amazes me that you or any other sentient (in your case - maybe!) being would try to defend this hoax.
What is more likely is that this guy's odometer was off by a factor of 10 (typical GM Schock quality) and that he went through two transmissions in 100 thousand miles. Why do you think that GM rejected this guy?
The fact is that this guy cashed in. Sort of makes you wonder about anything this guy said - except for the name and address Pennzoil should send the check to.
call my grandpa up and ask him how he likes his 00 camry. HE HATES IT. Wishes he had his 96 back. And i quote he said not to long ago "they dont make em like they use to"
Why don't you go do some research on the 1998 S-10s and compare their safety to the 1998 Tacoma and then come back and say I made a bad decision?
There, I answered you question. Happy? For starters, the Tacoma had a better off-set collision rating, one of the most common accidents.
Bama has a point. The safest vehicle is the one that stays in the shop for months at a time. Heck, Obyone, your truck is probably 100 times safer than the best Volvo!
I used to live in Atlanta. The interstate highways down in the Southeastern US where this guy drove are relatively traffic free. (outside of Atlanta that is) The weather, (mild winters) is good for long engine life because there are few deep cold starts. The guy drove the hell out of the thing every day, which is the best thing you can do to a car. And, he changed the oil every few DAYS!!!!. I'd be more worried about other things wearing out, like the oil pan drain threads, the hood latch, the seats, etc... As a guy who just bought his second chevy in 9 years, (my 93 S-10 is still taking me to work daily at around 170K on the original engine and still running strong, needed something bigger for the family duties), I can believe that a road warrior like the million mile guy says. Hell, I know a guy up here in New England who had a 3/4 ton 4wd Suburban and plowed with it every winter. He traded that beast in with 388K on the clock and an original engine. I have no doubts that the same engine in a lighter vehicle driven only on the highway could last 1000K. I also know small block chevy's that spun a rod bearing at 60K after proper maintenence. You make millions of something and some are good and some are bad.
But my 8.5 arguement is valid because I was talking about trucks, not cars. The Camry is the best high volume car in terms of quality on the road. A bit boring and weenie-ish but thats a personal thing. Comparing it to a Malibu is apples and oranges. The Malibu shares its basic platform with no other GM product. It probably has 1/10th of the engineering development hours devoted to it compared to the Camry platform. That Toyota platform is the basis for the Camry, the Camry Solara, the Avalon, the ES300 Lexus, the Highlander and probably two classes of patrol boats in the Japanese Navy. The Camry has far fewer problems per car than the Malibu. This is why you hear about more problems with the Malibu. The Malibu is a cheap, pushrod powered, econo-box that GM rebates to the underpaid, overfed masses. The Camry is a refined, overhead cam, family sedan that Toyota carefully markets to the solidly middle class.
applied to trucks as well. You said that higher volumes will automatically equal more problems. There are more Camrys than Malibus, but Camry's are WAY LESS problematic.
How can you say Malibu vs. Camry isn't a fair comparison? They're both no frills family sedans. I not only think the Malibu is weenieish, but also a piece.
BTW, a 4cyl Camry with power everything can be had for about $1200 more than your standard V6 Malibu. So I believe the cars are in the same class. It's not like were comparing Toyota to Hyundai/Kia here.
boy I'm glad we are talking about camry's in the 1,000,000 mile chevy truck engine topic. I'm shure that is something all of us true truck guys really care about.
A loaded Malibu is less than 20K, A loaded Camry is more than 26K, They are not in the same price class, please stop comparing them. You are right, the camry is awesome, no other cars compare, I don't see why anyone would want to buy anything else. Now go back to the Sedan board if you want to continue.
This topic is about the incredible claim that a man drove his Chevrolet 1500 PICK UP TRUCK over a million miles on the original engine.
Unless you have something nice to say about the most prolific and successful engine in history, the small block Chevy, or what I consider to be the best light truck on the market, the Chevy 1500, please return to the Camry topic somewhere else.
Back to the subject, an oil change every 3k or so for a million miles is roughly 300 oil changes. At 6 quarts per, that's 1800 quarts or 450 gallons. I'm thinking this guy could have saved some cash by having a 55 gallon drum in his garage.
Also, the cab of that truck must have smelled like the working end of an ox. Even at an average speed of 60 mph, he spend the equivelant of 8 years in that cab. Yikes.
And here's a question for all you "I buy American because my Honda is screwed together in Illinois" people: If Toyotas, Hondas and Mitsubishi's are "American", then why aren't the company stocks on American stock exchanges.
Plutonut, Dodge's made in Mexico don't bother me because I don't believe Daimler Chrysler is a US corporation anymore. And where a vehicle is screwed together doesn't matter, it's where the corporate profits end up that does. If GM wants to have engines made in Cuba because they can save $20 per car over 4 million cars. I'll take a share of the the 80 million in additional profits as a GM shareholder. So will about a million other Americans. If Dodge saves $20 per car assembling them in Toluca, MEXICO, the profits from that move go to Germany. Yes, there are American shareholders of DCX, but a lot of the money will stay there. And these profits are what people use to create personal wealth, which is the cornerstone of any countries economic health. So keep buying American if you can, and keep making America stronger. I'm off the soap box now.
jason, you own GM stock huh? I'm thinking it may be a good time to buy some GM stock, how has it treated you?
New GM Plants: Flint Engine South (2000)
Allison Transmission PDC-Indianapolis (2000)
Lansing Grand River Assembly (2001)
Allison Transmission-Baltimore (2001)
GM employess 193,000 people in the USA.
talking about small block Chevy's can you get any better? Unbelievable. I wish they still offered the 350, hated to see it go from the pickups. I don't think Chevy gets credit it deserves for the big blocks, the 454 beats the Ford 460 and the Dodge 440 easily. Friend of mine has had all sorts of trucks for towing horses, he says 454 is by far the best. (of the gassers)
First, the most prolific engine of all time is the VW Bug/Beetle engine - 22 million and still in production. Get your facts straight.
#2 - Try to justify all you want how good for America it is to send production overseas. You have absolutely no clue in economic issues. The profits are going into the hands of CEOs and executives who practice paying people overseas about 1/30th of what they would pay American workers. If you knew your history, the fall of the Spanish empire came at exactly the same time Spain was importing gold from the Americas. Such a large influx of wealth with nobody working for it created such a hugh inflation rate it crumbled the nation. Anytime wealth is obtained with no manufacturing, jobs, etc. within a nation problems arise. The biggest reason the North won your civil war was because it did not rely on slave labor for production. The North was self-supporting, the South was not. As a result, the North had a stronger economy and could still manufacture during hard times. This certainly played a key role in the railroads, which ultimately played a key role in the civil war. You are too wrapped up in your precious stocks and shares to see the big picture.
What will happen someday if the US gets mixed up in a huge war, demanding unprecedented production, and everything is being manufactured overseas? In WWII, how many Boeing B-17s and North American P-51s were manufactured overseas? The new US is walking in the footsteps of the old South/
#3. You say it doesn't matter who puts things together, huh? I bet you care who nailed and screwed your house together, right? Did you ever go to the construction site and see the kind of work that was being done? Of course you did. You probably went there everyday, monitoring your progress. You should care that the lowest bidder (working for about $1 an hour in Mexico) put together your $30K truck.
#4. I just compared Camrys and Malibues three weeks ago. Similarly equipped, a 4 cylinder Camry is slightly more expensive than a 6 cylinder Malibu. Don't blow things out of proportion.
#5. Do you really think car companies only save about $20 a car that's made overseas? Are you that naive? UAW workers were making between 20 and 35 dollars an hour making cars, now Mexicans are being paid a dollar an hour for the same work. And to boot, they don't have to worry about DOL and EPA standards. That's something to be proud of. Legalized slavery. Wow.
Seriously, I hope you and the companies you support get all the grief they can get. It looks like it's beginning to happen.
Im' confused pluto, your all over the place, American mfg have far more plants here than the imports, and atleast GM is opening new plants. In war time who do you want to rely on, foreign mfg's or domestic. your example really sucks.
that sending all of North America's production overseas is hardly good for the economy. This is going to come back and bite you in the butt if you ever need mass production, like what happened in WWII.
VW engines were not crap. If they were, why did they make them decade after decade? You know as little about VW engines as you do the world.
In time of war, the US Government will take over every Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, and every other manufacturing plant, here in the US, and probably across the border in Canada, and probably the ones close to the border in Mex. They did it before.
And my truck cost less than 20K, not 30K. I have a GM Card. I'm a good negotiator. And it was rebated. My truck was built in Pontiac,MI. By UAW workers who probably make as much as I do. I've been to Pontiac, Michigan. They all speak English and pay US taxes. And my tires, engine, transmission, frame, body and glass were all manufactured in the US. I think a couple of electrical relays came from Hella in Europe. Sorry, I should try better next time.
Ask anyone in Afghanistan if the US manufacturing base is intact. Last I checked, Boeing, Newport News, GE and Raytheon still make most of their defense products here. The fact that the US is currently beating the hell (pardon the pun) out of an enemy on the other side of the earth who is hundreds of miles from the nearest ocean seems to disprove your point. Total manufacturing capability in a time where one plane and one bomb can do the same strategic damage as an entire squadron of B-17's is not so important. The US rolled back the fifth largest ground army in the world in Iraq. And that was also done on the far side of the earth. You really think we'd have a tough time defending ourselves against attack?
And yes, the flat four Beetle engine is still being produced in quasi-third world countries who have little or no emission standards. Why don't you move there and buy one. I bet they drive as nice as a Camry.
I was speaking hypothetically about the money saved by manufacturing in a country with lower labor costs. Please try and expand your mind. That is the exact reason why Japan and Germany manufactures here. It's just cheaper
There were many reasons the North won the war, and "slave labor" in the South had little or nothing to do with any of them. Guns were largely made in the North, mostly Connecticut and Massachusetts. The South was largely agrarian and once the war started, material to support a war was hard to come by. The North was more heavily populated, and in the attrition of war, the North could sustain the fight longer. The North had a bigger Navy and blockaded the Southern ports, limiting what they could import from foreign sympathizers. The North had a guy named Sherman.
I don't care about the fall of the Spanish Empire. What the Spanish did in the name of God to the native people of central and southern America was horrible. Spain had it coming.
that you think it's a good idea to move production overseas, where expenses are cut to a fraction of what they were in the states with Americans doing the work, just so you can have better quarterly returns on your stock portfolios.
I'm sure all the UAW workers who lost their jobs to Mexico think that's great too.
America has always been a strong nation for many reasons, but industrial might probably the biggest. Can't you see the folly in America not doing its own production?
I'm sorry, but your examples of bombing Iraq and Afghanistan do not hold water. Those are not world wars.
I don't care about what happened to the Spanish either. The point is anytime you bring in massive wealth from abroad, without labor and production within, inflation goes through the roof, and that's why Spain fell. Big American companies are doing just that.
Anyways, this is about the Chevy that went a million miles. Somebody here broke that figure down and concluded the guy drove almost 800 miles EVERYDAY. I suppose you would also believe I'm Bill Gates.
Toyota has none? I find it strange none of you guys posted the article or found a link SOMEWHERE regarding this mythical Chevy truck in question.
Look in any Toyota brochure, and they have quite a few people in their 100K, 200K, 300K, 400K and 500K mile clubs. I've never seen that in any Chevy brochure.
At any rate, any vehicle can go a million miles if you keep replacing every part that breaks down. A good test would be to see who does it with the least replacement parts.
Besides, if Chevy makes such a durable product, WHY DO THEY OFFER A CRAPPY 3/36K WARRANTY WHICH TOYOTA BEATS?
what are you talking about pluto, the first message in this topic has a link to the article.
you have absolutley no idea what Jason is saying, he isn't saying move production overseas he is discussing economics.
Jason believes in keeping mfg here, and as far as I can tell supports American car companie because they have way more plants here. He is touting his vehicle is made in American with UAW workers, how are you getting the idea he believes in moving factories overseas
Why would toyota need a longer warranty, seems to me the koreans have the longest warranty and they have the worst quality by far, seems to me longer the warranty is due to people not trusting the product.
Carlos Antonio Rios / Chronicle Scott Green, left, a Pennzoil research engineer, and Jeff Hsu, a senior research engineer, pull the engine out of Bill White's Chevy truck in The Woodlands. The truck passed the million-mile mark before Pennzoil acquired it from White to study its oil performance.
A look under the hood Pennzoil researchers seek secret to million-mile pickup's engine By GREG HASSELL Copyright 2001 Houston Chronicle Every workday, Bill White climbs in his Chevy truck and goes for a ride.
A long ride.
He leaves his home in Georgia just after 5 p.m. and heads over to South Carolina to pick up a few thousand copies of the Investor's Business Daily. He piles the bundles into the bed of his white pickup, delivers them to a handful of cities in North Carolina and Tennessee and then heads home. When White pulls into his driveway at about 6 a.m., his odometer has another 795 miles on it.
The road warrior from Lawrenceville, Ga., has rolled up more than a million miles on one engine, a feat so rare that when Pennzoil-Quaker State Co. caught wind of it, the Houston-based company gave him a brand new truck in exchange for his old one.
Pennzoil then hauled White's old Chevrolet to The Woodlands, where scientists are studying every piston and valve to learn how it lasted so long.
"When we heard about this, we thought it must be a joke," said Jeff Hsu, one of Pennzoil's senior research engineers. "For a gasoline engine to go a million miles is almost unheard of."
The company will also try to figure out if White's faithful use of Pennzoil motor oil had anything to do with the truck's longevity. The company isn't making any claims just yet, but White is confident his oil played some role.
Special to the Chronicle William White's 1995 Chevy Pickup reached one million miles when it arrived at Lube 3000 Wednesday morning in Lawrenceville, Tenn. Pennzoil-Quaker State Co. gave White a brand new truck in exchange for his old Chevy truck so the Houston-based company can figure out why the truck lasted so long.
"I've always used Pennzoil, and I've always had good service with it," White said shortly before starting on another one of his four-state journeys. "If I find something that works, I stick with it."
In a disposable world of disposable razors, electronics and the other debris of our consumer culture, White is a throwback. He's a stickler about taking care of his stuff, especially his beloved truck. He changes the truck's oil every 3,000 miles. In his case, that means driving to the local Lube 3000 shop every four days.
The mechanics watched in astonishment as the Chevy piled up miles, cruising right past 500,000 and eventually reaching the million-mile mark. White burned through eight sets of tires and two transmissions, but his original engine still ran like a top.
"I've never seen a car or a truck with a million miles on it before," said Al Holloway, who's changed White's oil for the past four years. "The closest thing was his brother, who had a '95 Ford truck with 300,000 or 400,000 miles on it, but that's it."
White figured the Chevy suits in Detroit would love to take a story like his and make a commercial about it. If ever a truck earned the description Like a Rock, this was it.
"I thought it'd be good advertising for them," the 36-year-old White said. "But they weren't interested."
White didn't know the mechanics at Lube 3000 had called up the local Pennzoil representative to tell him about the million-mile truck. The rep called the home office, and Pennzoil wasted little time before offering to swap a new $30,000 truck for his old pickup.
After checking his story out -- Pennzoil calculated White's daily mileage over five years to make sure it totaled a million miles -- the company offered him a new Chevy 2500 in exchange for his 1995 model. White readily accepted, although he was somewhat surprised by the offer.
"I never really thought about Pennzoil being interested in my truck," White said.
Pennzoil was interested enough to haul the white pickup back to the company's research and development center in The Woodlands. On Wednesday morning, the researchers lifted the engine out of the pickup and started breaking it down piece by piece.
"It is in phenomenal shape. It looks like it has 80,000 miles on it," Mark Ferner, Pennzoil's manager of mechanical development, marveled as he examined the truck's exposed innards.
There was a small oil leak where one gasket had baked down. Otherwise, it was amazingly clean and looked ready to rumble out for more trips through the Carolinas and Georgia pines.
"We'd like to think the quality of Pennzoil stands out, but the more important thing is he changed his oil every 3,000 miles," Pennzoil spokesman Ray Scippa said.
The condition of the rest of White's truck is just as impressive. There's hardly a scratch or a dent to be found. White put a towel on the seat before he went anywhere. He swept out the floorboards with a little whisk broom whenever he stopped for gas.
"Growing up, money was tight. You had to take care of your things if you wanted to have anything," he said. "I still have toys from when I was a kid. They're almost like new."
After the scientists finish examining the engine, Pennzoil is going to turn the truck over to an artist, who will transform it into an art car -- one of the elaborately decorated machines that cruise downtown Houston during the annual Art Car Parade, which is sponsored by Pennzoil.
White's not too sure how he feels about all this.
"I have no idea what to think. It's hard to picture anyone else driving that truck," he said wistfully. "I sort of miss it."
As the article points out, Chevrolet was not interested in putting White, or his truck in a brochure, quite different than Toyota, eager to toot its own horn.
"As the article points out, Chevrolet was not interested in putting White, or his truck in a brochure, quite different than Toyota, eager to toot its own horn. "
Could it be because they didn't believe this cock and bull story either?
so how do you know all toyotas claims are true? Its much more suspicious when the mfg of the vehicle keeps bragging about all these trucks with 1mil miles on it than a oil company.
I read the article in the local newspaper with a sigh (sic) In my opinion it is not about engines that go a million miles by million mile engine manufacturers, there is no such company. It is about the wonderful and very great Pennsylvania Crude, yes the dino oil refined, YES THE 250 million bucks that PENNZOIL spent to improve their very crappy and marginal SAFE LUBRICATION sludge juice into a nice clean oil with PUREBASE, yes the nice clean oil that keeps oil pans mirror clean, YEA RIGHT, GIVE ME A BREAK, I ve used mom's butter knife to remove sludge formation after 12,000 miles of stop and go driving, yes, that is it, the Pennzoil golden juice, now you can buy PENNZOIL SYNTHETIC with PENNZANE and drive your truck to the moon. Of course the bottle, that grey and yellow bottle says to change the higher cost than MOBIL 1 oil every 3,000 miles. I think Pennzoil wants their investment of 250 million back. Line up at your favorite PENNZOIL super store, and snatch up the Pennzane, all the Pennzane you can get your hands on and maybe you too will get a call from PENNZOIL and an offer to replace your HOOPTY CHEVY TRUCK with a new 2002 C2500.....BAMATUNDA, don't be that way!!
Do i change the oil in my wifes 2001 AZTEK GT with Pennoil with PENNZANE, i bet Pennzoil will replace it with a new AZTEK GT, ha ha, love those AZTEKS, parachute a green AZTEK into OSAMA's backyard and watch him scream in torment at the sight...
No Toyota engine is even remotely in the same class as the venerable small block Chevy V8 for longevity. Without a rubber timing belt replacement, and upper end valve service for setting valve lash, (which includes removing the camshafts to change the shim under bucket), the I-force won't even stay running past 90,000.
Quad, I guess you forgot that little fact that this engine has been in service for years in the LandCruiser and like any other Toyota, they have proven to go the miles.
You're right, the Toyota V8 just isn't in the same class as your Chevy V8. It doesn't suffer from an epedemic of knocking, undersized pistons, loose connecting rods, etc.
I didn't forget that the toymota v8 has been around since when...about 1998? Tell us how many miles this "proven" legend has gone. Go dig out one of those magazines and report back this lore about trips across the Serenghetti, (with a Chevy support truck close behind toting all the fuel and supplies).
You believe this Hoax? Oh, Well - you know what P.T. Barnum said.
I'll tell you what - I will sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for 1/2 price if you do it today! Oh, by the way, the National Enquirer says that we are being invaded by horny Martians - LOOK OUT!!
Comments
You know, this is common sense and basic arithmetic. CTF, if you take off from airport "A" and set your altimeter to the corresponding air pressure, but land at airport "B" (or simply fly through an area with different barometer readings than airport "A") whose airpressure is lower (or higher) will your altimeter read high or low, assuming you didn't readjust it? If you're flying a north-easterly course of 42 degrees but have a crosswind coming from 97 degrees, and want to fly 245 miles to your destination, how far off course will you be if you don't compensate? How much will you have to compensate? What course should you follow? I'm sorry, but I am bewildered at how you can understand and figure these kinds of problems out but not understand the point I was trying to make with the Camry.
stang and obyone, I can always tell when you lose a debate because the personal attacks begin, and obyone mentions the one star rating for the 500th time. Get a new line.
Please don't call me un-American or anything else that suggests that. You know, if you lived near the Texas-Mexico border (especially), you would see things that would make your head spin. Everyday, freight trains roll into Mexico with hundreds of vehicle frames stacked like egg-crates. Then you see freight trains returning to the United States with "car-packs" which are caged freight cars holding brand-new American-brand cars, fully assembled off the frames that arrived just a few weeks earlier. And it's not just cars, but all kinds of appliances (GE is big time into this) and everything else you can imagine, from fishing lures (REALLY) to clothes to brick and tile. While I respect people who are patriotic and feel they are doing their part by buying "American," I wonder why the companies, like Dodge especially, don't feel the same way and have their manufacturing done in the US. Now, it seems the consumer is more patriotic than the producer. Sorry, but I know what's REALLY going on, and feel no guilt buying a Toyota made in the states.
CTF, I hate to say it, but you really need to get out of isolated Ellensburg and be removed from your sheltered existence. This is the only experience that will really open your eyes. This is not a derogatory remark - I was much the same way during my college years. But I've learned FAR more about the world when I left college and was exposed to reality and not academia.
Or are we having that river problem again....remember thee nile? BTW, where's you bud, Tbunder? lol
What is more likely is that this guy's odometer was off by a factor of 10 (typical GM Schock quality) and that he went through two transmissions in 100 thousand miles. Why do you think that GM rejected this guy?
The fact is that this guy cashed in. Sort of makes you wonder about anything this guy said - except for the name and address Pennzoil should send the check to.
Bama do you open your eyes when you read?
You are the most entertaining person i have ever interacted with by far
There, I answered you question. Happy? For starters, the Tacoma had a better off-set collision rating, one of the most common accidents.
Bama has a point. The safest vehicle is the one that stays in the shop for months at a time. Heck, Obyone, your truck is probably 100 times safer than the best Volvo!
Please, Life's to short to carry on an argument about this. If you believe fine if your here to argue GO ELSEWHERE !
Ray T.
As a guy who just bought his second chevy in 9 years, (my 93 S-10 is still taking me to work daily at around 170K on the original engine and still running strong, needed something bigger for the family duties), I can believe that a road warrior like the million mile guy says.
Hell, I know a guy up here in New England who had a 3/4 ton 4wd Suburban and plowed with it every winter. He traded that beast in with 388K on the clock and an original engine. I have no doubts that the same engine in a lighter vehicle driven only on the highway could last 1000K.
I also know small block chevy's that spun a rod bearing at 60K after proper maintenence.
You make millions of something and some are good and some are bad.
The Camry is the best high volume car in terms of quality on the road. A bit boring and weenie-ish but thats a personal thing. Comparing it to a Malibu is apples and oranges. The Malibu shares its basic platform with no other GM product. It probably has 1/10th of the engineering development hours devoted to it compared to the Camry platform. That Toyota platform is the basis for the Camry, the Camry Solara, the Avalon, the ES300 Lexus, the Highlander and probably two classes of patrol boats in the Japanese Navy.
The Camry has far fewer problems per car than the Malibu. This is why you hear about more problems with the Malibu.
The Malibu is a cheap, pushrod powered, econo-box that GM rebates to the underpaid, overfed masses.
The Camry is a refined, overhead cam, family sedan that Toyota carefully markets to the solidly middle class.
How can you say Malibu vs. Camry isn't a fair comparison? They're both no frills family sedans. I not only think the Malibu is weenieish, but also a piece.
BTW, a 4cyl Camry with power everything can be had for about $1200 more than your standard V6 Malibu. So I believe the cars are in the same class. It's not like were comparing Toyota to Hyundai/Kia here.
They are not in the same price class, please stop comparing them. You are right, the camry is awesome, no other cars compare, I don't see why anyone would want to buy anything else. Now go back to the Sedan board if you want to continue.
This topic is about the incredible claim that a man drove his Chevrolet 1500 PICK UP TRUCK over a million miles on the original engine.
Unless you have something nice to say about the most prolific and successful engine in history, the small block Chevy, or what I consider to be the best light truck on the market, the Chevy 1500, please return to the Camry topic somewhere else.
Back to the subject, an oil change every 3k or so for a million miles is roughly 300 oil changes. At 6 quarts per, that's 1800 quarts or 450 gallons. I'm thinking this guy could have saved some cash by having a 55 gallon drum in his garage.
Also, the cab of that truck must have smelled like the working end of an ox. Even at an average speed of 60 mph, he spend the equivelant of 8 years in that cab. Yikes.
And here's a question for all you "I buy American because my Honda is screwed together in Illinois" people:
If Toyotas, Hondas and Mitsubishi's are "American", then why aren't the company stocks on American stock exchanges.
Dodge's made in Mexico don't bother me because I don't believe Daimler Chrysler is a US corporation anymore.
And where a vehicle is screwed together doesn't matter, it's where the corporate profits end up that does.
If GM wants to have engines made in Cuba because they can save $20 per car over 4 million cars. I'll take a share of the the 80 million in additional profits as a GM shareholder. So will about a million other Americans.
If Dodge saves $20 per car assembling them in Toluca, MEXICO, the profits from that move go to Germany. Yes, there are American shareholders of DCX, but a lot of the money will stay there.
And these profits are what people use to create personal wealth, which is the cornerstone of any countries economic health.
So keep buying American if you can, and keep making America stronger.
I'm off the soap box now.
New GM Plants:
Flint Engine South (2000)
Allison Transmission PDC-Indianapolis (2000)
Lansing Grand River Assembly (2001)
Allison Transmission-Baltimore (2001)
GM employess 193,000 people in the USA.
talking about small block Chevy's can you get any better? Unbelievable. I wish they still offered the 350, hated to see it go from the pickups. I don't think Chevy gets credit it deserves for the big blocks, the 454 beats the Ford 460 and the Dodge 440 easily. Friend of mine has had all sorts of trucks for towing horses, he says 454 is by far the best. (of the gassers)
-- Don
#2 - Try to justify all you want how good for America it is to send production overseas. You have absolutely no clue in economic issues. The profits are going into the hands of CEOs and executives who practice paying people overseas about 1/30th of what they would pay American workers. If you knew your history, the fall of the Spanish empire came at exactly the same time Spain was importing gold from the Americas. Such a large influx of wealth with nobody working for it created such a hugh inflation rate it crumbled the nation. Anytime wealth is obtained with no manufacturing, jobs, etc. within a nation problems arise. The biggest reason the North won your civil war was because it did not rely on slave labor for production. The North was self-supporting, the South was not. As a result, the North had a stronger economy and could still manufacture during hard times. This certainly played a key role in the railroads, which ultimately played a key role in the civil war. You are too wrapped up in your precious stocks and shares to see the big picture.
What will happen someday if the US gets mixed up in a huge war, demanding unprecedented production, and everything is being manufactured overseas? In WWII, how many Boeing B-17s and North American P-51s were manufactured overseas? The new US is walking in the footsteps of the old South/
#3. You say it doesn't matter who puts things together, huh? I bet you care who nailed and screwed your house together, right? Did you ever go to the construction site and see the kind of work that was being done? Of course you did. You probably went there everyday, monitoring your progress. You should care that the lowest bidder (working for about $1 an hour in Mexico) put together your $30K truck.
#4. I just compared Camrys and Malibues three weeks ago. Similarly equipped, a 4 cylinder Camry is slightly more expensive than a 6 cylinder Malibu. Don't blow things out of proportion.
#5. Do you really think car companies only save about $20 a car that's made overseas? Are you that naive? UAW workers were making between 20 and 35 dollars an hour making cars, now Mexicans are being paid a dollar an hour for the same work. And to boot, they don't have to worry about DOL and EPA standards. That's something to be proud of. Legalized slavery. Wow.
Seriously, I hope you and the companies you support get all the grief they can get. It looks like it's beginning to happen.
The small block Chevy is the most sucessful engine in history as far as reliability, demand (aftermarket etc), use in racing, longetivity.
Not all of us!! Come on now, we're not all like that.
Joel
VW engines were not crap. If they were, why did they make them decade after decade? You know as little about VW engines as you do the world.
And my truck cost less than 20K, not 30K. I have a GM Card. I'm a good negotiator. And it was rebated.
My truck was built in Pontiac,MI. By UAW workers who probably make as much as I do. I've been to Pontiac, Michigan. They all speak English and pay US taxes. And my tires, engine, transmission, frame, body and glass were all manufactured in the US. I think a couple of electrical relays came from Hella in Europe. Sorry, I should try better next time.
Ask anyone in Afghanistan if the US manufacturing base is intact. Last I checked, Boeing, Newport News, GE and Raytheon still make most of their defense products here. The fact that the US is currently beating the hell (pardon the pun) out of an enemy on the other side of the earth who is hundreds of miles from the nearest ocean seems to disprove your point. Total manufacturing capability in a time where one plane and one bomb can do the same strategic damage as an entire squadron of B-17's is not so important. The US rolled back the fifth largest ground army in the world in Iraq. And that was also done on the far side of the earth. You really think we'd have a tough time defending ourselves against attack?
And yes, the flat four Beetle engine is still being produced in quasi-third world countries who have little or no emission standards. Why don't you move there and buy one. I bet they drive as nice as a Camry.
I was speaking hypothetically about the money saved by manufacturing in a country with lower labor costs. Please try and expand your mind. That is the exact reason why Japan and Germany manufactures here. It's just cheaper
There were many reasons the North won the war, and "slave labor" in the South had little or nothing to do with any of them.
Guns were largely made in the North, mostly Connecticut and Massachusetts.
The South was largely agrarian and once the war started, material to support a war was hard to come by.
The North was more heavily populated, and in the attrition of war, the North could sustain the fight longer.
The North had a bigger Navy and blockaded the Southern ports, limiting what they could import from foreign sympathizers.
The North had a guy named Sherman.
I don't care about the fall of the Spanish Empire. What the Spanish did in the name of God to the native people of central and southern America was horrible. Spain had it coming.
I'm sure all the UAW workers who lost their jobs to Mexico think that's great too.
America has always been a strong nation for many reasons, but industrial might probably the biggest. Can't you see the folly in America not doing its own production?
I'm sorry, but your examples of bombing Iraq and Afghanistan do not hold water. Those are not world wars.
I don't care about what happened to the Spanish either. The point is anytime you bring in massive wealth from abroad, without labor and production within, inflation goes through the roof, and that's why Spain fell. Big American companies are doing just that.
Anyways, this is about the Chevy that went a million miles. Somebody here broke that figure down and concluded the guy drove almost 800 miles EVERYDAY. I suppose you would also believe I'm Bill Gates.
Look in any Toyota brochure, and they have quite a few people in their 100K, 200K, 300K, 400K and 500K mile clubs. I've never seen that in any Chevy brochure.
At any rate, any vehicle can go a million miles if you keep replacing every part that breaks down. A good test would be to see who does it with the least replacement parts.
Besides, if Chevy makes such a durable product, WHY DO THEY OFFER A CRAPPY 3/36K WARRANTY WHICH TOYOTA BEATS?
you have absolutley no idea what Jason is saying, he isn't saying move production overseas he is discussing economics.
Jason believes in keeping mfg here, and as far as I can tell supports American car companie because they have way more plants here. He is touting his vehicle is made in American with UAW workers, how are you getting the idea he believes in moving factories overseas
Why would toyota need a longer warranty, seems to me the koreans have the longest warranty and they have the worst quality by far, seems to me longer the warranty is due to people not trusting the product.
Carlos Antonio Rios / Chronicle
Scott Green, left, a Pennzoil research engineer, and Jeff Hsu, a senior research engineer, pull the engine out of Bill White's Chevy truck in The Woodlands. The truck passed the million-mile mark before Pennzoil acquired it from White to study its oil performance.
A look under the hood
Pennzoil researchers seek secret to million-mile pickup's engine
By GREG HASSELL
Copyright 2001 Houston Chronicle
Every workday, Bill White climbs in his Chevy truck and goes for a ride.
A long ride.
He leaves his home in Georgia just after 5 p.m. and heads over to South Carolina to pick up a few thousand copies of the Investor's Business Daily. He piles the bundles into the bed of his white pickup, delivers them to a handful of cities in North Carolina and Tennessee and then heads home. When White pulls into his driveway at about 6 a.m., his odometer has another 795 miles on it.
The road warrior from Lawrenceville, Ga., has rolled up more than a million miles on one engine, a feat so rare that when Pennzoil-Quaker State Co. caught wind of it, the Houston-based company gave him a brand new truck in exchange for his old one.
Pennzoil then hauled White's old Chevrolet to The Woodlands, where scientists are studying every piston and valve to learn how it lasted so long.
"When we heard about this, we thought it must be a joke," said Jeff Hsu, one of Pennzoil's senior research engineers. "For a gasoline engine to go a million miles is almost unheard of."
The company will also try to figure out if White's faithful use of Pennzoil motor oil had anything to do with the truck's longevity. The company isn't making any claims just yet, but White is confident his oil played some role.
Special to the Chronicle
William White's 1995 Chevy Pickup reached one million miles when it arrived at Lube 3000 Wednesday morning in Lawrenceville, Tenn. Pennzoil-Quaker State Co. gave White a brand new truck in exchange for his old Chevy truck so the Houston-based company can figure out why the truck lasted so long.
"I've always used Pennzoil, and I've always had good service with it," White said shortly before starting on another one of his four-state journeys. "If I find something that works, I stick with it."
In a disposable world of disposable razors, electronics and the other debris of our consumer culture, White is a throwback. He's a stickler about taking care of his stuff, especially his beloved truck. He changes the truck's oil every 3,000 miles. In his case, that means driving to the local Lube 3000 shop every four days.
The mechanics watched in astonishment as the Chevy piled up miles, cruising right past 500,000 and eventually reaching the million-mile mark. White burned through eight sets of tires and two transmissions, but his original engine still ran like a top.
"I've never seen a car or a truck with a million miles on it before," said Al Holloway, who's changed White's oil for the past four years. "The closest thing was his brother, who had a '95 Ford truck with 300,000 or 400,000 miles on it, but that's it."
White figured the Chevy suits in Detroit would love to take a story like his and make a commercial about it. If ever a truck earned the description Like a Rock, this was it.
"I thought it'd be good advertising for them," the 36-year-old White said. "But they weren't interested."
White didn't know the mechanics at Lube 3000 had called up the local Pennzoil representative to tell him about the million-mile truck. The rep called the home office, and Pennzoil wasted little time before offering to swap a new $30,000 truck for his old pickup.
After checking his story out -- Pennzoil calculated White's daily mileage over five years to make sure it totaled a million miles -- the company offered him a new Chevy 2500 in exchange for his 1995 model. White readily accepted, although he was somewhat surprised by the offer.
"I never really thought about Pennzoil being interested in my truck," White said.
Pennzoil was interested enough to haul the white pickup back to the company's research and development center in The Woodlands. On Wednesday morning, the researchers lifted the engine out of the pickup and started breaking it down piece by piece.
"It is in phenomenal shape. It looks like it has 80,000 miles on it," Mark Ferner, Pennzoil's manager of mechanical development, marveled as he examined the truck's exposed innards.
There was a small oil leak where one gasket had baked down. Otherwise, it was amazingly clean and looked ready to rumble out for more trips through the Carolinas and Georgia pines.
"We'd like to think the quality of Pennzoil stands out, but the more important thing is he changed his oil every 3,000 miles," Pennzoil spokesman Ray Scippa said.
The condition of the rest of White's truck is just as impressive. There's hardly a scratch or a dent to be found. White put a towel on the seat before he went anywhere. He swept out the floorboards with a little whisk broom whenever he stopped for gas.
"Growing up, money was tight. You had to take care of your things if you wanted to have anything," he said. "I still have toys from when I was a kid. They're almost like new."
After the scientists finish examining the engine, Pennzoil is going to turn the truck over to an artist, who will transform it into an art car -- one of the elaborately decorated machines that cruise downtown Houston during the annual Art Car Parade, which is sponsored by Pennzoil.
White's not too sure how he feels about all this.
"I have no idea what to think. It's hard to picture anyone else driving that truck," he said wistfully. "I sort of miss it."
Could it be because they didn't believe this cock and bull story either?
that is it, the Pennzoil golden juice, now you can buy PENNZOIL SYNTHETIC with PENNZANE and drive your truck to the moon. Of course the bottle, that grey and yellow bottle says to change the higher cost than MOBIL 1 oil every 3,000 miles. I think Pennzoil wants their investment of 250 million back. Line up at your favorite PENNZOIL super store, and snatch up the Pennzane, all the Pennzane you can get your hands on and maybe you too will get a call from PENNZOIL and an offer to replace your HOOPTY CHEVY TRUCK with a new 2002 C2500.....BAMATUNDA, don't be that way!!
Do i change the oil in my wifes 2001 AZTEK GT with Pennoil with PENNZANE, i bet Pennzoil will replace it with a new AZTEK GT, ha ha, love those AZTEKS, parachute a green AZTEK into OSAMA's backyard and watch him scream in torment at the sight...
-- Don
No Toyota engine is even remotely in the same class as the venerable small block Chevy V8 for longevity. Without a rubber timing belt replacement, and upper end valve service for setting valve lash, (which includes removing the camshafts to change the shim under bucket), the I-force won't even stay running past 90,000.
You're right, the Toyota V8 just isn't in the same class as your Chevy V8. It doesn't suffer from an epedemic of knocking, undersized pistons, loose connecting rods, etc.
Will you ever learn?
Good luck on this one now!
I'll tell you what - I will sell you the Brooklyn Bridge for 1/2 price if you do it today! Oh, by the way, the National Enquirer says that we are being invaded by horny Martians - LOOK OUT!!