i am looking to buy a 2003 9-3..love the looks, price is right, i will prob buy the entry linear at around $27,500 when all is said and done..but here are my questions..
1. i have heard mixed things about reliability reagrding Saab in general..are they as reliable as say german cars like the 325 i or japanese cars like acura and infinity? this concerns me..not the speed or luxury features, but lasting 120,000 miles if i choose to keep it that long.
2.is it worth spending 3000 bucks more to get the bigger engine from i think 174hp to 205 hp?
I'm guessing variant refers to aluminum and maybe a biturbo.
The 9-3's new 6-speed manual can handle 295 lb-ft of torque. This leaves Saab with a few options for a N/A Aero or Viggen (2.3 turbo from 9-5 Aero, 3.0 V6 variant, new 2.8 turbo (for the 9-3X or something), future variable compression engine). There are also the Hirsch packages for the 9-5 (one gives the 2.3 turbo 305 hp and 309 lb-ft, the other 2.3 turbo 280 hp and 295 lb-ft).
My hope is that saab will offer the Hirsh packages for the 9-3, unless there is enough pressure to build a new Viggen (with a beefier transmission). The problem I see with a Viggen is that Saab is busy as hell getting the 9-3 wagon, convertible, 4 wheel drive, crossover; 9-5 sedan, wagon, 4 wheel drive, etc; 9-7, 9-3X, 9-2 desinged and for production in the next three or four years.
With some luck we could see a 9-3 4 wheel drive with the 2.3 turbo and Hirsh upgrades. Which would give you 280 hp, 295 lb-ft, beefed brakes and cross your fingers for tighter suspension. OR the 3.0 V6 variant sneaking its way in.
Is Saab listening? I WANT THIS CAR!!!
www.saabcarsonline.com does a good job of keeping up to date on Saab's activities.
Any guesses what the target for such a vehicle might be; S4, RS4, M3, S60 R?
I predict the 9-3 I just described would beat or match the S60 R, lose to the M3, new S4 and RS4 (just not enough hp). Audi has put a V8 in the new S4 with 410 lb-ft. BMW will likely follow suit with the M3 (think M3 GTR only better).
From what I have read lately, Saab's are more reliable than BMWs. I know Saab won the JD Power award last year for initial quality of luxury brands. BMWs are certainly no hallmark for reliability.
As for the engine, it depends on personal taste. 175 hp is plenty but some people want more to suit their own taste and style of driving. Test both if you are unsure.
Doesn't sound like Saab is doing too well, despite the success of the new 9-3...
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General Motors is putting together an emergency turnaround plan to deal with the rapid financial deterioration of Saab Automobile AB.
The Swedish subsidiary is in deep trouble. Saab has been forced to grapple with heavy product development costs, a slow, difficult launch of the redesigned 9-3 sedan and a weak dollar - all while sales are collapsing.
On Nov. 1, two GM executives from Detroit took over as Saab's CFO and COO in Sweden. GM Europe President Michael Burns has held meetings with Saab executives to address the problems, which internal forecasts show will result in losses of $504 million this year.
That amounts to losses of $4,000 per car sold, a stunning burden for any automaker.
Saab's internal sales projections rule out a quick turnaround. Saab has cut its long-term forecast of 250,000 sales by 2005 down to 200,000 units. This year, the company expects to sell 125,000 vehicles, well short of its sales goal of 140,000 units.
Saab has been in trouble for a while now. The new 9-3 is the first of a few new models which should turn things around. GM now owns all of Saab so they won't let it die. With out GM they may have been bankrupt already.
The November issue of the British auto magazine Top Gear has a comparison test of the new Saab 9-3, Volvo S60, Jaguar X-type, and BMW 318i. The Saab won first place and beat the others in almost all catagories. This is the first time I have read a comparo test in which a Saab has taken first place.
No surprise to us that the 9-3 is the best car of the competitors with the same price, the real point is that it can beat more expensive cars at least in some categories. If the comparisons show that the winning categories are what customers want then it is a real winner.
Someone should pit it against Saab USA's comparo list, (C&D are you listening?): Linear VS Audi A4 1.8T, BMW 325i, Benz C240, Volvo 2.4 Arc or Vector VS Audi A4 3.0, BMW 330i, Volvo S60 2.4T, Benz C320, Lexus IS300
My wife and I are very interested in the new 9-3, which we test-drove last weekend and were very impressed with. There were several on the lot, but most came with options we weren't that interested in, like heated seats (here in Georgia, ha!), and the touring package(nice to have the bi level xenons, but I couldn't care less about climate control). And the Launch package, while fairly priced, also comprises things that I can live without. Power driver seat(I would really like this), Sunroof(I use it about once a year), 16" wheels (I want the 17" sport wheel package anyway, and even base models were coming with 16" wheels anyway), and the infotainment 2 upgrade(again, nice but not necessary to enjoy the car).
When I priced the car the way they were coming equipped (auto, 17" wheel pkg, Launch, Touring, heated seats) it looks like it's priced the same as an Arc model if you drop the Touring pkg and heated seats. Might be worth waiting for those who want the added power and features. Come resale time, I think you might take a real hit compared to an Arc that you paid the same price for.
We are going to drive a base model this weekend and see if the seats can be adjusted properly w/o power. If so, that will probably be the one we'll get. It's $4350 less than a loaded model they have sitting there in Lazer Red that we liked. In 5 years, that car might bring $2000 more than a base car at resale, if that.
For about $500/year in savings, I don't mind adjusting my seat manually the one or two times a week I get to drive it, listening to slightly less brilliant sound, not having a hole in the top, having cold buns for 5 minutes on the dozen days a year it matters here, and having to make do w/o xenons, which I have for the past 22 years w/ few problems. All these options are nice to have, but I think they take the car out of the realm of being a good value. Besides, we've owned two BMW 540's, what some call the "ultimate sport sedan" with all the bells/whistles and for various reasons didn't like them as much as we do the 9-3. How I fit in the seat, how relaxed the experience is, and how fun it is to drive is more important. I learned that more power or features isn't always equal to more fun.
I just don't think a loaded Linear makes as much sense as an Arc or Vector. You're getting close to Audi/BMW territory then. The 9-3 is a fantastic value at under $30,000, though.
Anyone getting discounts from dealers off MSRP yet? I haven't heard much pricing info here.
I read just read the Autoweek article. It does sound dire. However, I don't think it sounds as dire as Fiat, so I wouldn't start poppin the cyanide pills just yet. When the Arc and Vector reach these shores, I think sales will pick up better. My brother and I are going with the Vector with all the trimmings. As I have said b4, the new 9-3 will do for Saab what the 850 did for Volvo. All is definitely not lost.
see post 398 above (and my first day review about 20 posts before that). you are definately on target regarding the linear (which you really can't get as a base model anyway) vs the arc. "us" early buyers either were coming off a lease (ME) SAAB crazy (probably moose) or just couldn't wait. You can currently get $1000. off the launch package if you shop around, (to busier dealers). with the 9-3's not flying off the lots, I suspect a lease deal is around the corner. the invoice/msrp differential is not that great with this car, so there is no 1000-2500 cushion to deal with (like the old 9000's, or current 9-5's)i paid, after alot of cat and mouse games, msrp for the base, launch, heated seats (5 speed),+ destination, invoice on metallic/touring option (i didn't want them initially, but the color car in a manual i wanted only came with touring) plus 500 off (saab loyalty) and another 500 off (discounted launch package). When all was said and done, about 1300 off msrp (just under 30k). i bought at 0 down 0 apr 36 months (another small savings). BUT this fairly loaded linear (which I love thus far, awaiting on-star and 2nd key) costs what an arc will cost in 4-5 months, and lacks the 300 watt stereo and 210 hp engine. AND if I was a betting man, there will be deals and incentives on the arc that could bring it below what we are paying for the linear + launch + touring + metallic + heated seats +/- sport. I think you are all crazy if you can wait, not to.
Seems every automaker is in trouble these days. If the new 9-3 is the wave of things to come for Saab, then I don't think they have to worry about anything. Of coarse I said that about Olds when the Aurora and Intrigue first came out. Back to Saab, I've never really liked their cars up until the new 9-3. I thought they were ugly, too quirky, underpowered unless you spend mega $$ for the hi end models, and didn't have the luxury image of other cars in their class. Now I'm seriously considering a 9-3 and I think it looks to be a great alternative to bland masses of cars in it's price range. I hope to get a final opinion after a test drive soon. Personally, I do hope Saab succeeds as I really like the mix of style, comfort, value, and yes still some quirkiness their cars offer. Something that is certainly missing in the marketplace as everyone else seems to be trying to make their cars just like everyone elese.
I agree with you. If someone can wait for an ARC, they're probably better off and also apt to get a good deal if Saab's financials continue to go south. However, I read at least one road test where the tester actually lked the smaller engine better, citing better driveability. As with you, I had a car coming off lease, and unless I wanted to drive my son's '94 Tercel for a few months, the Linear was my only choice. However, I have no regrets whatsoever. I love the car. I learned a few years back when buying personal computers, that if you look back after making your purchase, you will always find a better price than what you paid, or a better machine for the same bucks. So, there's no looking back, because it's no fun kicking yourself in the [non-permissible content removed]. But, for those who haven't bought, if you can hang on, wait and see what develops. --** Mooselook
i whole heartedly agree. (though each time we check this site, we'll find someone with a better deal!) Saab will survive. This is a great car, and moving forward with the possibility of all wheel they will retain some market share. It would have been smart, retrospectively, to make more "base" vehicles, without the launch etc. and lure more first time saab buyers (who were looking at maximas, altimas, vw's, hondas, etc) into a 26-27K car that has some pizzaz and character! saab owners are very brand loyal for a reason. . we love being different. it all started with that characteristic turbo sound of the late 70's early 80's. . you always knew when a turbo 900 was coming around the bend!
I bought this car last Friday through autobytel.com.... Then I ask for 3%above invoice. saleperson agree with the price right away without thinking.. Oh, I think I ask it too less... I saw someone even can get in invoice price.... But I think it's worh for any price you pay.. It can't be easily just taged by price. I really love this car in any direction. However after only one day of joyful.. On sunday one stupid guy made a inproper left turn and smash on me when I pass through green light. Only 2 seconds I don't have option to do avoidence drive test... But this new 93 did work very well on breaking and turn.. So I made the face to face impact to corner impact. only some scratch on front left corner bumper... of course it's still cost that guy a fortune to repair my bumper. But as I can see her, it's excellent not even on performance also on safety. Thanks to Saab 93.
I don't get the lack of base model availablility either. If there were more available, I would have become a first time Saab buyer by now. I'm younger, and just now in a position to look at something in this range - and I like the 9-3 much better than some of the brands you have listed above. Further, I think the base model is pretty loaded w/out option packages (launch, touring) when comparing to aforementioned brands. Throw in some heated seats, it comes w/ 16" wheels, find the exterior/interior color combo that I want, and I'm a buyer.
One other thing that would be very helpful would be for the 0% financing to be available in longer terms (48, or 60).
I know they can't lose a ton of money on this new 9.3 launch (though it sounds as if they may have already done so), but considering the suggestions above would open the market to many more buyers in my opinion.
Any idea as to when more base models will be available, if at all? The dealership I spoke to did not offer much insight.
Further, does anyone have any input as to what will happen w/ pricing and incentives on the Linear once the Arc and Vector "hit the lots".
Any input is appreciated. Ultimately, I'll own one of these vehicles, they are too cool not to "pull the trigger", I'm just trying to gather as much data as I can, so that I am more comfortable with the purchase.
I'm with you guys on making more base models available. The car is well equipped in standard form and the only option I'd really want is the Touring package(the Intrigue has spoiled me on climate control) and maybe the heated seats. As for 0& financing for 60 months, my guess is that will come in time if sales remain soft.
when i test drove the first 9-3 in, which was a base, i was told this might be the only base model they get. they've received truck loads of 9-3's since, all with launch and various combinations of automatic. . sport. . .touring. all have heated seats as well. i suspect if you walk in, put down your money, a good dealer will do the best they can. i'd love to know if they can come through for you. its alot of car for 26K (especially with thrown in 16" wheels)
Quick guess here, My knowledge of products and pricing suggests that Saab/GM could be offering lots of packages on early models to ensure that they can secure volume pricing deals with their suppliers over the next few years. I read that Saab produced 125,000 cars in 1998. Saab just plain needs to sell more parts/accessories starting from the launch date of each new vehicle until they start selling 250,000 vehicles or more.
So I support no base model until they hit the volume they need, it will make the packages cheaper in the long run. And it could help keep standard GM parts out of Saabs.
I live in the Greater Boston area and as an FYI in this general area Saab dealers listed a total of 106 2003 9-3Linear's on their lots in inventory on their web-sites. These seems like a lot to me. Each dealer had between 10 and 20 on the lot. Every conceivable choice including a couple of base models.
I'd alwas heard Saab's best market in the US was in the Boston area, and thus it is not surprising they would make sure they're supplying it well. And 100 cars, in the big scheme of things, doesn't seem like all that much...
Not that this is a shocker to anyone, but I just went on Carsdirect.com and they no longer have the Launch package available on the 9-3.
It is essentially replaced with a "Driver's package" that only includes the power driver's seat, the infotainment system and 6-CD changer. The sunroof is a standalone option, and the "monotone paint" is "no-charge." And, as we already know, those 16" wheels are standard.
And, according to Carsdirect, at least for the Colorado region, they're offering the 9-3 at almost $2,000 off MSRP. That puts the one I'd want, with sport pkg, touring pkg, driver's pkg and heated seats at about $29,000. Not bad for one month after the launch, eh?
I keep on thinking I'd like to replace my Passat with a 325xi, but man, there are a ton of those here in Colorado. IMHO, the 9-3 looks better and, with some proper snow tires, I'm sure I'd be fine without the AWD.
I intended to lease another 9-5 but ended up negotiating on a 9-3 but I need to know if this is a good deal.
GMS and Saab/Olds loyalty, 03 9-3 with launch, touring and sport, metallic paint, sunroof, heated seats, and sentronic is $333.59 per mo including tax. This is with 15,000 miles per year on a 39 mos lease with a total of $2000 due which includes tax, acquisition fee, first month etc.
This seems like a reasonable price but I want to get some feedback.
Wow, $2,000 below msrp? Here in Atlanta they're showing it a couple of hundred OVER MSRP. I think that may be because Jim Ellis owns both of the metro Atlanta dealers...a quasi monopoly.
Combined with lousy availability of models w/ the mix of options I want, If dealers aren't discounting here and I can't find one who is within a couple hours drive of here, I will probably go higher with an Infiniti G35, or lower with an Accord EX V6, looks be damned.
That looks like an excellent deal! Is that through GMAC or Saab's financial services? I'm eligible for GMS pricing so I would be able to get a price close to yours and I was figuring nearly $100 more a month on a 36 month 15K lease. The total of $2K down is also very good. Did you have to do much negotiating to get that price?
I check internet found that one dealer in the north of Chicago said they are the biggest dealer in the United States. I bought one new 93 from local and then suprised by the dealer's name show on the window sticker not the local dealer.
I test drove a 9-3 sedan and was pleasantly surprised at the improvment in handleing steering etc. However, the website and brochure seem to have not specifications at all. Seems odd. Does anyone know the size (gallons or liters) of the fuel tank? Also the gear ratios and final drive ratios of the 5 and 6 speed manual? What are the torque numbers for the 175 and 210 Hp engines.. And what idiot designed the brochure and website?
I just checked thier website and find out they changed thier web design already. They used have lots information on it. But you can learn those infor. you want from this website. Edmund.com
Well, after another test drive of the Infiniti G35 sport and the Saab 9-3, we just signed on for a loaded ( Launch, Sport wheel upgrade, heated seats, Touring, Sentronic) Linear in Laser Red/Parchment at the other local Saab dealer. It's being shipped here to Atlanta and should be in within the week. Paid $31,500 plus $299 doc fee plus $39 tag/title on an MSRP of $32,810. My impression of the G35 was that it is very fast, handles great, and is a better car for serious performance enthusiasts (than the linear), but that it is noisier, a little less refined, and not as emotionally satisfying. I also prefer the 9-3's Euro look and stance. The G35 also costs a little more comparably equipped and doesn't have the great financing deal. The Arc and Vector models may give it a performance run for its money, however.
Back to the deal, the internet manager accepted my first offer via email, except for the doc fee which I agreed to pay. Very easy to deal with, efficient(I hate lazy salesmen), and professional. They even offered to provide a loaner if it takes longer than a week to get the new car in. This works out to about $1000 off MSRP and $100 over actual invoice. This is a 5% profit for the dealer on the net invoice(including holdback). Seems fair for a very low volume make, I think. I read that they only sold 37,000 cars last year, and local dealers here only sold 35-40 cars each month. Also taking them up on nothing down, no payments for 3 months, 0% 36 month financing. The financing is worth about $1500 to $2,000, depending on your alternate use/cost of funds. The purchase also includes free Saab loaners for any service visit, including maintenance.
Some things we learned that might be helpful to others shopping:
1. the 17" wheel upgrade does not yet include the low tire pressure sensor system, but is priced at only $1000, rather than $1295 listed here and elsewhere. It will later be offered only on Arc and Vector models.
2. Onstar is not yet ready but will be retrofitted at no charge later, and they will provide 2 free years of service instead of one.
3. Saab will give you $1000 in lieu of taking the financing.
4. When the Launch package is gone, I believe that so is the body colored bottom exterior trim. Make sure you like the base trim (flat black) look if you're buying a Linear later in the year.
5. There is a new "drivers pkg" showing up at CarsDirect.com that includes only the stereo upgrade and power seats, but costs only about $995.
6. I have seen a curb weight of 3280 lbs shown on the internet at a review site, but I'm not sure if that was for the manual or automatic. The car is sized between a BMW 3 and 5 series.
7. I read one article that said even with the new 9-3 expected to sell well, Saab will lose money ($4,000/car) this year. But that GM will not let them fail. They may be more willing to deal than some have expected in order to ramp up volume and word-of-mouth on what I think will be a well respected car.
Does the new saab 9-3 offer any specials, rebate? I am planning to trade in my C-240 elegance for an Audi A4 1.8t or 3.0 or BMW325xi or 330i, it just happened I saw an ad outside of my home today of the new re designed 9-3, my first impression of the car was pretty nice. However, I am concern with the depericiation rate of this car and the lack of Saab dealers around Canada, fixing the car could be messy. Hope GM can add more variety to Saab line up, increase the market share in the near luxury segment similar to what Ford is giving Volvo. If the price is right i might consider the new 9-3, in addition i like my car to be different than others and there' s too much 3 series on Vancouver' s road.
The financing is not offered thru GMAC or Saab Financial. The special rate is only available with Fifth Third or FirStar. The identical car financed with Saab Financial is about $58 more per month.
There was very little negotiation. Supposedly, the offer with these banks ends at the end of November so the sales person pushed for me to close the deal by this Friday. Ordinarily I wouldn't move that quickly but my lease is up Dec. 17th and that's after I was granted my 30 courtesy extension by GMAC.
Before agreeing to the 9-3, I was looking at another 9-5 or a CTS.
My father leased an Aurora a few years back through Fifth Third and if I remember correctly, it was a better deal than through GMAC. And that was with GM's heavy subsidizing of the car and financing. With everyone else going shopping at the malls this upcoming weekend, I may avoid that mess and do some car shopping. Only trouble will be finding a good stretch of road in which to test drive the 9-3 as traffic will be a nightmare.
I've been told the Nav system will be out for model year 2004..which arrives around October 2003.
If Nav was out when the Vectors first appear next spring I'd buy one in a second. SO disappointed I have to wait for Nav. Makes no sense for them to delay it.
The interior of that car looks so damn nice with the Nav system. It looks good w/ the audio system upgrade too, but not as good w/ the Nav system. Oh man, it's coming out in October 03? Not enough time for me to save money for it......Oh, and don't know why SAAB doesn't offer the Vector in white......
I am currently on the 31st month of a 39 month lease for a 2000 Volvo S80 2.9. To make a long story short, I am not buying the car at the end of the lease. Having done lots of web browsing and dropping by the New England Auto Show recently (I live in Boston), I have narrowed my car choices down to 3 - the Audi A4 (1.8T or 3.0, maybe quattro), the BMW 3 Series (325i or 325xi), and the Saab 9-3 (Linear or Arc, the Vector is almost too sporty-looking). What I would like is some impressions on how the new 9-3 might stack up against these cars. Basically, I am looking for a car that will hold its value, that will handle well in Boston weather (snow, sleet, crappy roads), that will be trouble-free, and that I can get for slightly over invoice. I won't even think of paying MSRP. I would like to get my choices narrowed down to 3 specific choices, i.e. Audi A4 1.8T quattro with yada yada, BMW 325xi with yada yada, and Saab 9-3 Arc with yada yada, before I go in for test drives. Thanks in advance for the help.
I haven't driven any of the 3 cars you mentioned. But here's what I think of them. They are all nice cars (Hey, what is better than driving a European car). BMW should hold it's value better than Audi and SAAB. Audi and SAAB have a nicer interior than 3-series (I personally care more about interior cuz most of the time I'll be driving, not looking at the car from outside). For price, I don't think you can get a BMW for slightly over invoice. But it's possible for Audi and SAAB. And for trouble-free, I think it really depends on your luck when buying European cars. It may not be as reliable as Japanese models, but it does give you the driving experience and prestige that no Japanese cars can give you. However, I think all 3 manufactures provide free loaner for warranty repairs. Regarding performance and handling, you need to test drive and figure out which one you like most.
Seeing as you are currently in a Volvo S80, one might assume that you value luxury and safety over ultimate performance. You also mentioned a price just over invoice, resale value, inclement weather handling, and reliablity. Unfortunately, none of these cars really deliver all of these attributes. I've test driven them all more than once, and owned two BMWs and currently just pulled the trigger on a Saab 9-3 Linear. My impressions are:
Audi A4: The smallest of the bunch inside. I am 6 feet tall and found it just a little too small, with my right leg rubbing the center console painfully. Nice interiors, but 1.8t models have less luxury than high end models. (manual seats, black plastic trim, etc) - Quattro availability is a plus for weather - Resale value is solid, if behind that of BMW - Reliability has been spotty vs. Japanese brands, and probably a little more likely to break down than a BMW in my opinion. Quattro is complex and expensive to fix out of warranty. - They are discounted, but due to low/no holdback, you won't be buying one at invoice price. Expect to drop roughly $30,000 driveout on a nicely equipped CVT 1.8t, and maybe $35,000 on a 3.0, plus $2000 for quattro on each. The 1.8T is underpowered with the quattro/tiptronic, so avoid that. Other options may raise price furher, of course.
BMW 325i: The ultimate driver's small sedan. They truely are nice and smooth and have decent power. Biggest negative has always been price. Other negatives are quirks like wildly optimistic speedo, bad am reception, somewhat narrow bolsters on otherwise excellent sport seats, Civic-esque rear end, and botched new front styling.
-Pricing: They have raised prices recently, so that w/ premium/sport/leather/stereo/auto they drive out at about $38,000, and other options can raise that further. Don't expect a big discount at all off of MSRP. Maybe $500, but your market may vary. Remember, this is a comfortable, but subcompact sized car. Unless you value the small handling advantages enough to pay for them, this isn't the best value. On a test track, the 3 series is king. But do you drive that way enough to justify the price differential?
-Resale value: Great as a percentage of original cost, but the car's price negates much of that in additional interest payments and tag taxes, plus it has further to fall than some of the others.
-Reliability: I never got stranded by our BMWs, but they had us in visiting the shop for little (and sometimes big) things about every other month. Mostly electrical and hardware items. Also had cats go bad at 80,000, which if not under warranty could run $2000 or more. We spent $1500 on maintenance WITH an extended warranty. (tires, scheduled maint, repairs, etc) but you may trade before 50,000.
-Weather: Rear wheel drivers supposedly don't do snow as well as front or all wheel drive. But the BMW VSC is very good and can drive on ice in their demo videos. I wouldn't drive a BMW around here when it snows, too rough on the finish and likely to get hit by a careless driver.
Saab 9-3 Arc: Even though I just bought a Linear, I would get an Arc when your lease is up. The extra power is nice to have, and many of the features now available in the Linear Launch Package will probably NOT be offered later on. (exterior body colored side trim, etc). The price differential is about $2000 for an Arc vs. a loaded Linear, and you should recoup much of that on resale. The Arc not that different from the Vector except for interior trim, body cladding, and seats. There should be a sport wheel/suspension package for the Arc that makes it handle as well as the Vector.
Pricing: Even now, I got a substantial discount w/o negotiation, splitting the difference in invoice/msrp. By summer I bet you will be able to pick one up at a great price. You're talking $32,000 to $34,000, depending on options.
Resale value: Previous Saabs haven't had great resale value, but I think that was because they weren't superior cars compared to the competition. The new 9-3 may well develop a good reputation and resale will improve. Still, this is not its strongest feature.
Reliability: Older Saabs had problems. The latest Saab 9-5s have been great. So it's hard to say for sure, but the 9-3, if they learned from the 9-5, should be reliable. Loaner cars should help ease the pain.
Weather: Front wheel drive and stability control are pluses here. Tire choice also matters, of course. No awd available yet. But I hear some talk that that is overrated for winter weather. I dunno, I don't drive in snow much.
Finally, as a Volvo driver, I assume you value safety. All are good safe cars, but in a European test I saw on the internet, the Saab came in first, the Audi and BMW were a little behind it. Makes sense, it's the newest design. All weigh about the same and are roughly the same size, with the Saab a little bigger inside. If I had never owned a BMW, I might have ordered a decontented BMW 325 coupe instead, but I found the 9-3 seats the most comfortable, the styling my favorite, and the lack of snob appeal refreshing. I bet you'll get let in in heavy traffic more in your Saab.
I think you hit the nail squarely. Just to add, I also test drove the audi in a 5 speed, and the bmw. I really wanted to give another car a chance. The bmw just gets too expensive equally equipped, is not a snow care without all wheel, and the 3 series is small. Audi was a bit cramped, and you have to option up to ski pass through, seats that fold down, and the 5 speed isn't nearly as smooth as the 9-3. I'm 2 weeks into the 9-3, and am still ga-ga. No torque-steer. handles unbelieveably for front wheel drive, and i've really pushed it hard. i'm enjoying the climate control, heated seats, sun roof. . wish the front seat had memory and am still looking for the perfect coffee cup for that funky cup holder in the dash. I agree that reliability wise, each saab i've had has improved tremendously. my 2000 9-3 was terrific. friends with 9-5's love them, and have no problems. so far, this car is incredibly solid, problem free (and that was NOT saabs trade mark in the 1980's) want to be different. . go for the 9-3
Does anyone have a realistic (informed) opinion about the impact of Saab's severe financial problems on the owners of (new) Saab sedans? I'm very interested in the Arc, but I am concerned that, while I am sure Saab wont disappear for a while, that my local dealer might pull out of Saab due to decreasing support from the "mothership" as Saab looks to cut costs and improve the bottom line. I've never owned a Saab before and am concerned about what I might be getting myself into. (I currently have a Lexus).
I lease a 2001 9-3 Viggen 4-door...my sixth Saab. I need to get a new and large SUV (Car Pool, etc) and would like to transfer my lease to someone who will take over payments. Is there a reputable e-based service that facilitates this type of transaction? Details are: Lease through Saab Financial began 1/22/01. 42 month lease ends on June '04. That's 19 months to go. Lease payment is $539.00/m in state of Arkansas. All Arkansas sales tax was paid at time of initial registration. Residual is $18,339.40. Car is Black on Black with only 14,763 miles total (average 652 miles/m) and new Bridgestone S-03 tires. Pirellis were TOO noisy. Looks, drives and smells showroom new. Anyone have a suggestion?
Comments
i am looking to buy a 2003 9-3..love the looks, price is right, i will prob buy the entry linear at around $27,500 when all is said and done..but here are my questions..
1. i have heard mixed things about reliability reagrding Saab in general..are they as reliable as say german cars like the 325 i or japanese cars like acura and infinity? this concerns me..not the speed or luxury features, but lasting 120,000 miles if i choose to keep it that long.
2.is it worth spending 3000 bucks more to get the bigger engine from i think 174hp to 205 hp?
thx and please advise..
eric
There is a UK news report of a variant of the 3.0 V6 making 300+ hp in a 4 wheel drive 9-3.
http://www.4car.co.uk/jsp/main.jsp?lnk=211&id=4424
I'm guessing variant refers to aluminum and maybe a biturbo.
The 9-3's new 6-speed manual can handle 295 lb-ft of torque. This leaves Saab with a few options for a N/A Aero or Viggen (2.3 turbo from 9-5 Aero, 3.0 V6 variant, new 2.8 turbo (for the 9-3X or something), future variable compression engine). There are also the Hirsch packages for the 9-5 (one gives the 2.3 turbo 305 hp and 309 lb-ft, the other 2.3 turbo 280 hp and 295 lb-ft).
My hope is that saab will offer the Hirsh packages for the 9-3, unless there is enough pressure to build a new Viggen (with a beefier transmission). The problem I see with a Viggen is that Saab is busy as hell getting the 9-3 wagon, convertible, 4 wheel drive, crossover; 9-5 sedan, wagon, 4 wheel drive, etc; 9-7, 9-3X, 9-2 desinged and for production in the next three or four years.
With some luck we could see a 9-3 4 wheel drive with the 2.3 turbo and Hirsh upgrades. Which would give you 280 hp, 295 lb-ft, beefed brakes and cross your fingers for tighter suspension. OR the 3.0 V6 variant sneaking its way in.
Is Saab listening? I WANT THIS CAR!!!
www.saabcarsonline.com does a good job of keeping up to date on Saab's activities.
Any guesses what the target for such a vehicle might be; S4, RS4, M3, S60 R?
I predict the 9-3 I just described would beat or match the S60 R, lose to the M3, new S4 and RS4 (just not enough hp). Audi has put a V8 in the new S4 with 410 lb-ft. BMW will likely follow suit with the M3 (think M3 GTR only better).
As for the engine, it depends on personal taste. 175 hp is plenty but some people want more to suit their own taste and style of driving. Test both if you are unsure.
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General Motors is putting together an emergency turnaround plan to deal with the rapid financial deterioration of Saab Automobile AB.
The Swedish subsidiary is in deep trouble. Saab has been forced to grapple with heavy product development costs, a slow, difficult launch of the redesigned 9-3 sedan and a weak dollar - all while sales are collapsing.
On Nov. 1, two GM executives from Detroit took over as Saab's CFO and COO in Sweden. GM Europe President Michael Burns has held meetings with Saab executives to address the problems, which internal forecasts show will result in losses of $504 million this year.
That amounts to losses of $4,000 per car sold, a stunning burden for any automaker.
Saab's internal sales projections rule out a quick turnaround. Saab has cut its long-term forecast of 250,000 sales by 2005 down to 200,000 units. This year, the company expects to sell 125,000 vehicles, well short of its sales goal of 140,000 units.
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For full article:
http://www.autoweek.com/cat_content.mv? port_code=autoweek&cat_code=carnews&loc_code=index&content_code=07738308
(Sorry URL too long to post (take out spaces)
grr.. tests and their price restrictions
No surprise to us that the 9-3 is the best car of the competitors with the same price, the real point is that it can beat more expensive cars at least in some categories. If the comparisons show that the winning categories are what customers want then it is a real winner.
Someone should pit it against Saab USA's comparo list, (C&D are you listening?):
Linear VS Audi A4 1.8T, BMW 325i, Benz C240, Volvo 2.4
Arc or Vector VS Audi A4 3.0, BMW 330i, Volvo S60 2.4T, Benz C320, Lexus IS300
When I priced the car the way they were coming equipped (auto, 17" wheel pkg, Launch, Touring, heated seats) it looks like it's priced the same as an Arc model if you drop the Touring pkg and heated seats. Might be worth waiting for those who want the added power and features. Come resale time, I think you might take a real hit compared to an Arc that you paid the same price for.
We are going to drive a base model this weekend and see if the seats can be adjusted properly w/o power. If so, that will probably be the one we'll get. It's $4350 less than a loaded model they have sitting there in Lazer Red that we liked. In 5 years, that car might bring $2000 more than a base car at resale, if that.
For about $500/year in savings, I don't mind adjusting my seat manually the one or two times a week I get to drive it, listening to slightly less brilliant sound, not having a hole in the top, having cold buns for 5 minutes on the dozen days a year it matters here, and having to make do w/o xenons, which I have for the past 22 years w/ few problems. All these options are nice to have, but I think they take the car out of the realm of being a good value. Besides, we've owned two BMW 540's, what some call the "ultimate sport sedan" with all the bells/whistles and for various reasons didn't like them as much as we do the 9-3. How I fit in the seat, how relaxed the experience is, and how fun it is to drive is more important. I learned that more power or features isn't always equal to more fun.
I just don't think a loaded Linear makes as much sense as an Arc or Vector. You're getting close to Audi/BMW territory then. The 9-3 is a fantastic value at under $30,000, though.
Anyone getting discounts from dealers off MSRP yet? I haven't heard much pricing info here.
--** Mooselook
I don't get the lack of base model availablility either. If there were more available, I would have become a first time Saab buyer by now. I'm younger, and just now in a position to look at something in this range - and I like the 9-3 much better than some of the brands you have listed above. Further, I think the base model is pretty loaded w/out option packages (launch, touring) when comparing to aforementioned brands. Throw in some heated seats, it comes w/ 16" wheels, find the exterior/interior color combo that I want, and I'm a buyer.
One other thing that would be very helpful would be for the 0% financing to be available in longer terms (48, or 60).
I know they can't lose a ton of money on this new 9.3 launch (though it sounds as if they may have already done so), but considering the suggestions above would open the market to many more buyers in my opinion.
Any idea as to when more base models will be available, if at all? The dealership I spoke to did not offer much insight.
Further, does anyone have any input as to what will happen w/ pricing and incentives on the Linear once the Arc and Vector "hit the lots".
Any input is appreciated. Ultimately, I'll own one of these vehicles, they are too cool not to "pull the trigger", I'm just trying to gather as much data as I can, so that I am more comfortable with the purchase.
http://www.saabscene.co.uk/ubb/ultimatebb.php
My knowledge of products and pricing suggests that Saab/GM could be offering lots of packages on early models to ensure that they can secure volume pricing deals with their suppliers over the next few years.
I read that Saab produced 125,000 cars in 1998. Saab just plain needs to sell more parts/accessories starting from the launch date of each new vehicle until they start selling 250,000 vehicles or more.
So I support no base model until they hit the volume they need, it will make the packages cheaper in the long run. And it could help keep standard GM parts out of Saabs.
It is essentially replaced with a "Driver's package" that only includes the power driver's seat, the infotainment system and 6-CD changer. The sunroof is a standalone option, and the "monotone paint" is "no-charge." And, as we already know, those 16" wheels are standard.
And, according to Carsdirect, at least for the Colorado region, they're offering the 9-3 at almost $2,000 off MSRP. That puts the one I'd want, with sport pkg, touring pkg, driver's pkg and heated seats at about $29,000. Not bad for one month after the launch, eh?
I keep on thinking I'd like to replace my Passat with a 325xi, but man, there are a ton of those here in Colorado. IMHO, the 9-3 looks better and, with some proper snow tires, I'm sure I'd be fine without the AWD.
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
GMS and Saab/Olds loyalty, 03 9-3 with launch, touring and sport, metallic paint, sunroof, heated seats, and sentronic is $333.59 per mo including tax. This is with 15,000 miles per year on a 39 mos lease with a total of $2000 due which includes tax, acquisition fee, first month etc.
This seems like a reasonable price but I want to get some feedback.
Combined with lousy availability of models w/ the mix of options I want, If dealers aren't discounting here and I can't find one who is within a couple hours drive of here, I will probably go higher with an Infiniti G35, or lower with an Accord EX V6, looks be damned.
Also, there are apparently no Linears w/ auto that aren't pretty much loaded. It's feast or famine.
Does anyone know the size (gallons or liters) of the fuel tank? Also the gear ratios and final drive ratios of the 5 and 6 speed manual? What are the torque numbers for the 175 and 210 Hp engines.. And what idiot designed the brochure and website?
Back to the deal, the internet manager accepted my first offer via email, except for the doc fee which I agreed to pay. Very easy to deal with, efficient(I hate lazy salesmen), and professional. They even offered to provide a loaner if it takes longer than a week to get the new car in. This works out to about $1000 off MSRP and $100 over actual invoice. This is a 5% profit for the dealer on the net invoice(including holdback). Seems fair for a very low volume make, I think. I read that they only sold 37,000 cars last year, and local dealers here only sold 35-40 cars each month. Also taking them up on nothing down, no payments for 3 months, 0% 36 month financing. The financing is worth about $1500 to $2,000, depending on your alternate use/cost of funds. The purchase also includes free Saab loaners for any service visit, including maintenance.
Some things we learned that might be helpful to others shopping:
1. the 17" wheel upgrade does not yet include the low tire pressure sensor system, but is priced at only $1000, rather than $1295 listed here and elsewhere. It will later be offered only on Arc and Vector models.
2. Onstar is not yet ready but will be retrofitted at no charge later, and they will provide 2 free years of service instead of one.
3. Saab will give you $1000 in lieu of taking the financing.
4. When the Launch package is gone, I believe that so is the body colored bottom exterior trim. Make sure you like the base trim (flat black) look if you're buying a Linear later in the year.
5. There is a new "drivers pkg" showing up at CarsDirect.com that includes only the stereo upgrade and power seats, but costs only about $995.
6. I have seen a curb weight of 3280 lbs shown on the internet at a review site, but I'm not sure if that was for the manual or automatic. The car is sized between a BMW 3 and 5 series.
7. I read one article that said even with the new 9-3 expected to sell well, Saab will lose money ($4,000/car) this year. But that GM will not let them fail. They may be more willing to deal than some have expected in order to ramp up volume and word-of-mouth on what I think will be a well respected car.
Hope this info helps others get a good deal.
I am planning to trade in my C-240 elegance for an Audi A4 1.8t or 3.0 or BMW325xi or 330i, it just happened I saw an ad outside of my home today of the new re designed 9-3, my first impression of the car was pretty nice. However, I am concern with the depericiation rate of this car and the lack of Saab dealers around Canada, fixing the car could be messy. Hope GM can add more variety to Saab line up, increase the market share in the near luxury segment similar to what Ford is giving Volvo.
If the price is right i might consider the new 9-3, in addition i like my car to be different than others and there' s too much 3 series on Vancouver' s road.
There was very little negotiation. Supposedly, the offer with these banks ends at the end of November so the sales person pushed for me to close the deal by this Friday. Ordinarily I wouldn't move that quickly but my lease is up Dec. 17th and that's after I was granted my 30 courtesy extension by GMAC.
Before agreeing to the 9-3, I was looking at another 9-5 or a CTS.
If Nav was out when the Vectors first appear next spring I'd buy one in a second. SO disappointed I have to wait for Nav. Makes no sense for them to delay it.
I am currently on the 31st month of a 39 month lease for a 2000 Volvo S80 2.9. To make a long story short, I am not buying the car at the end of the lease. Having done lots of web browsing and dropping by the New England Auto Show recently (I live in Boston), I have narrowed my car choices down to 3 - the Audi A4 (1.8T or 3.0, maybe quattro), the BMW 3 Series (325i or 325xi), and the Saab 9-3 (Linear or Arc, the Vector is almost too sporty-looking).
What I would like is some impressions on how the new 9-3 might stack up against these cars. Basically, I am looking for a car that will hold its value, that will handle well in Boston weather (snow, sleet, crappy roads), that will be trouble-free, and that I can get for slightly over invoice. I won't even think of paying MSRP. I would like to get my choices narrowed down to 3 specific choices, i.e. Audi A4 1.8T quattro with yada yada, BMW 325xi with yada yada, and Saab 9-3 Arc with yada yada, before I go in for test drives.
Thanks in advance for the help.
I have a 6'3" friend who keeps hitting his head in the rear seat in my 2001 9-3.
..reason #231 to get a new 9-3.
Wow, $4000/car sounds like a lot of money to loose. I am shocked if it's true.
I've test driven them all more than once, and owned two BMWs and currently just pulled the trigger on a Saab 9-3 Linear. My impressions are:
Audi A4: The smallest of the bunch inside. I am 6 feet tall and found it just a little too small, with my right leg rubbing the center console painfully. Nice interiors, but 1.8t models have less luxury than high end models. (manual seats, black plastic trim, etc)
- Quattro availability is a plus for weather
- Resale value is solid, if behind that of BMW
- Reliability has been spotty vs. Japanese brands, and probably a little more likely to break down than a BMW in my opinion. Quattro is complex and expensive to fix out of warranty.
- They are discounted, but due to low/no holdback, you won't be buying one at invoice price. Expect to drop roughly $30,000 driveout on a nicely equipped CVT 1.8t, and maybe $35,000 on a 3.0, plus $2000 for quattro on each. The 1.8T is underpowered with the quattro/tiptronic, so avoid that. Other options may raise price furher, of course.
BMW 325i: The ultimate driver's small sedan. They truely are nice and smooth and have decent power. Biggest negative has always been price. Other negatives are quirks like wildly optimistic speedo, bad am reception, somewhat narrow bolsters on otherwise excellent sport seats, Civic-esque rear end, and botched new front styling.
-Pricing: They have raised prices recently, so that w/ premium/sport/leather/stereo/auto they drive out at about $38,000, and other options can raise that further. Don't expect a big discount at all off of MSRP. Maybe $500, but your market may vary. Remember, this is a comfortable, but subcompact sized car. Unless you value the small handling advantages enough to pay for them, this isn't the best value. On a test track, the 3 series is king. But do you drive that way enough to justify the price differential?
-Resale value: Great as a percentage of original cost, but the car's price negates much of that in additional interest payments and tag taxes, plus it has further to fall than some of the others.
-Reliability: I never got stranded by our BMWs, but they had us in visiting the shop for little (and sometimes big) things about every other month. Mostly electrical and hardware items. Also had cats go bad at 80,000, which if not under warranty could run $2000 or more. We spent $1500 on maintenance WITH an extended warranty. (tires, scheduled maint, repairs, etc) but you may trade before 50,000.
-Weather: Rear wheel drivers supposedly don't do snow as well as front or all wheel drive. But the BMW VSC is very good and can drive on ice in their demo videos. I wouldn't drive a BMW around here when it snows, too rough on the finish and likely to get hit by a careless driver.
Saab 9-3 Arc: Even though I just bought a Linear, I would get an Arc when your lease is up. The extra power is nice to have, and many of the features now available in the Linear Launch Package will probably NOT be offered later on. (exterior body colored side trim, etc). The price differential is about $2000 for an Arc vs. a loaded Linear, and you should recoup much of that on resale. The Arc not that different from the Vector except for interior trim, body cladding, and seats. There should be a sport wheel/suspension package for the Arc that makes it handle as well as the Vector.
Pricing: Even now, I got a substantial discount w/o negotiation, splitting the difference in invoice/msrp. By summer I bet you will be able to pick one up at a great price. You're talking $32,000 to $34,000, depending on options.
Resale value: Previous Saabs haven't had great resale value, but I think that was because they weren't superior cars compared to the competition. The new 9-3 may well develop a good reputation and resale will improve. Still, this is not its strongest feature.
Reliability: Older Saabs had problems. The latest Saab 9-5s have been great. So it's hard to say for sure, but the 9-3, if they learned from the 9-5, should be reliable. Loaner cars should help ease the pain.
Weather: Front wheel drive and stability control are pluses here. Tire choice also matters, of course. No awd available yet. But I hear some talk that that is overrated for winter weather. I dunno, I don't drive in snow much.
Finally, as a Volvo driver, I assume you value safety. All are good safe cars, but in a European test I saw on the internet, the Saab came in first, the Audi and BMW were a little behind it. Makes sense, it's the newest design. All weigh about the same and are roughly the same size, with the Saab a little bigger inside. If I had never owned a BMW, I might have ordered a decontented BMW 325 coupe instead, but I found the 9-3 seats the most comfortable, the styling my favorite, and the lack of snob appeal refreshing. I bet you'll get let in in heavy traffic more in your Saab.
want to be different. . go for the 9-3